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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On March 18 2015 23:20 marvellosity wrote: yeah. kinda ironic also, because the reason I pushed for ritoky d2 is that he didn't vote for jat when he should have. yes. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On March 13 2015 07:46 Eden1892 wrote: also it's not ritoky. jat tried to push ritoky to save himself later and that doesn't really make sense when they're teammates | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Vote Count: ritoky (7): marvellosity, LightningStrike, Koshi, raynpelikoneet, Damdred, Eden1892, prplhz prplhz (2): Onegu, ritoky raynpelikoneet (1): Palmar Currently ritoky is set to be disciplined! | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
It was a "fuck it, no-one is listening to me" vote. So maybe that's plausible? I did notice that Eden didn't once address the points I brought against ritoky. Like sure they were wrong (in the end) but surely they were worth addressing (especially given Eden's previous comments about ritoky). | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On March 15 2015 03:33 Eden1892 wrote: marv comes to mind, i don't feel the same level of investment that i've come to expect from town!marv this still makes my blood boil. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On March 18 2015 23:34 marvellosity wrote: I just got to his vote on his filter. It was a "fuck it, no-one is listening to me" vote. So maybe that's plausible? I did notice that Eden didn't once address the points I brought against ritoky. Like sure they were wrong (in the end) but surely they were worth addressing (especially given Eden's previous comments about ritoky). Does Eden look like a "fuck it noone is listening to me" kinda guy based on his play?  | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
And i know this type of play, if you are town you'd rather lynch yourself over someone you think is town just to show people they are bad regardless of if you are right or wrong. Like all the elements are there. But the final stance is missing. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2015 21:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I mean, other people at least seem to be trying to figure out what is right and what is wrong, Eden is just saying what is right or wrong and never trying to figure out anything. What the hell? Yes I am trying to figure out what's right and wrong. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2015 22:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like there are some things i find really townie in Palmar's play: - I liked his vote on Eden at the start of D2, because i think that is one of the reasons Eden is mafia (the extra information thing). However he doesn't pursue it. Why? Like he clearly thinks that was the case, why does he drop it? - I also liked when he tried to make you work with him on D3. I found that out to come as natural and reasonable. But again, when people actually start doing shit (mainly when prplhz comes back to the thread) he goes back to just saying "marv is scum" or whatever dumb stuff that doesn't really help. This has literally never been even halfway right God I hope you're nightkilled cuz you're confirmation biased on me beyond helping | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On March 17 2015 01:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: Eden: This is from his D1 reads. I don't agree with it at all. I don't think he evfer explains why prplhz seems "productive", especially more productive than he was in Titanic. Elaboration would be nice. The answer is not "because he questioned my vote on JAT" because that post was obviously questionable. Meh, Eden actually tried real hard to get ritokyl lynched with his scumread JAT. I don't really how he goes from JAT being his top scumread to ritoky on D1. Because of something JAT said? There should be quite much natural resistance against when your top scumread makes a case on someone upon being lynched. Unless the case is really good, which clearly was not the point here as the case was "ritoky is not playing". I don't think that is a good enough case to trust in Eden's situation here, as itis an obvious case to make for mafia!JAT. I also do not understand how Eden goes from "ritoky is the best lynch, if not D1 i am lynching him D2" into "I'm not bragging on JAT cause I wavered but I am totally pushing my credit for Damdred if he flips scum. We should sheep my case on him tomorrow" into -> "Damdred is my best pick. After that it's probably Onegu. That's all I got right now". ... Like i know ritoky was town and all that shit but this is just not natural. Because either Eden (from town perspective) didn't give a fuck if he lynches a townie or mafia on D1 if he thinks exactly one of JAT/ritoky is scum, or he thought both of them are scum, which makes this even more scummy. Furthermore in his reads list on N1 he gives all the reasons for ritoky to be mafia in this instance, and ends up in a conclusion "ritoky is town"?!?!?! I still don't like his reaction to Palmar's vigi claim. Maybe i am wrong on this and it does not mean anything but i have seen manyu times scum say something to give out they have extra information they should not. Two examples: - that game where i claimed masons with SL's scumbuddy. After the reaction i got i was like "yeah these two guys are definitely mafia together" but than i was retarded and dumped it because it sounded too easy. - one game where i claimed mafia had tried to see if i was their traitor (in the game if mafia incorrectly guesses who the traitor is that townie will know mafia has tried to guess them), i got "lol they did not guess you" -> ezpz traitor read, dumb town never lynched him obviously... I don't know if i am reading too much into this and it bothers me because i KNOW i have been right on this kinda stuff before. But everyone seems to be disagreeing with me as "rsoultin was Eden's top town read yadda yadda" whatever he gave as an explanation. I just do not see why he would make that post, ever, as town. At some point on D2 he goes from hardcore scumreading Damdred and Onegu to this: I don't even know why?? He never explains why Damdred is no more mafia. He never explains why Onegu is no more mafia, he just "doesn't even care about Onegu" anymore. Maybe it's the dumb VT claim, which, again, has been there for fucking ages. Well okay, he explains them later. So Damdred did this AtE thing and Onegu claimed VT. rofl. Those things are really easy to do as mafia, rage, or write some words. Fuck i don't know, maybe Eden iss town after all it seems consistent with his line of thinking during the game regarding other things.... idk, someone help me out here? I really don't know what to think of this. This kinda reminds me of myself when i started playing mafia but way worse. It seems like Eden does shit for no reason and changes his mind for no reason. I know he is a hardcore busser. So he probably has balls to say whatever shit he evercomes up with as mafia. I don't care about meta here, i want to understand why Eden does these things if he is town because i refuse just believe someone is incapable of doing irrational things as mafia.... answer please. that being said i am going to shop for groceries. be right back. marv i recommend: https://soundcloud.com/mikhail-garrievitch-soumar/ | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Remind me later | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2015 23:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i said before Eden really reminds me of myself a couple years ago. And i know this type of play, if you are town you'd rather lynch yourself over someone you think is town just to show people they are bad regardless of if you are right or wrong. Like all the elements are there. But the final stance is missing. HELL to the no. I have never ever been mislynched. I will never ever be mislynched. I know I am town, so if it's between me and a town read I'm going to vote the town read because (a) I can be wrong on a town read whereas I can never be wrong about myself, and (b) I am never going to contribute to my own mislynch. Pretty much the only exception is if I just get hella mad for some dumb reason and basically quit the game but it's never happened and I don't think it will | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
don't think he evfer explains why prplhz seems "productive", especially more productive than he was in Titanic. Elaboration would be nice. The answer is not "because he questioned my vote on JAT" because that post was obviously questionable. I don't remember now exactly what made me say it at the time. I want to say he had been looking at outside games by this point and making points based on them, but I don't remember if he actually had been or not. My comparison to Titanic was also based on a really limited recollection since I spent basically 0 time on that game. There isn't any way I can answer this at this point that I couldn't also do as mafia, but if you're particularly curious I can go back and look at what he was saying to try to remember what gave me that recollection. Meh, Eden actually tried real hard to get ritokyl lynched with his scumread JAT. I don't really how he goes from JAT being his top scumread to ritoky on D1. Because of something JAT said? There should be quite much natural resistance against when your top scumread makes a case on someone upon being lynched. Unless the case is really good, which clearly was not the point here as the case was "ritoky is not playing". I don't think that is a good enough case to trust in Eden's situation here, as itis an obvious case to make for mafia!JAT. Probably not. I am notoriously easy to distract with other cases, especially ones directed at people who aren't trying hard. It's a big weakness of mine and why I was adamant on not engaging JAT in the first place until he had invalidated what had made my initial read on him correct. I also do not understand how Eden goes from "ritoky is the best lynch, if not D1 i am lynching him D2" into "I'm not bragging on JAT cause I wavered but I am totally pushing my credit for Damdred if he flips scum. We should sheep my case on him tomorrow" into -> "Damdred is my best pick. After that it's probably Onegu. That's all I got right now". ... Like i know ritoky was town and all that shit but this is just not natural. Because either Eden (from town perspective) didn't give a fuck if he lynches a townie or mafia on D1 if he thinks exactly one of JAT/ritoky is scum, or he thought both of them are scum, which makes this even more scummy. Yeah it is natural. It's not reasonable or good but if you were to go back and look at any towngame of mine, this happens all the time. It's part of what's so disappointing and frustrating about this game, I've played with so many players in this game several times but for some reason the same thing I always do is getting scumread when it's normally just auto-townread. It's like people just woke up one day and it dawned on them that my reads and votes move like they're scattered on the wind or something. I definitely care about lynching mafia but I'm really easy to dissuade off of me. Look at Horn of Africa if you have time, I caught rsoultin in a scumslip d1 and caught her for her tone and then let myself be talked away from it until after I died. It's really frustrating because when I'm on, I feel like I'm as good at this game as any of the best players, but I'm never on consistently enough to actually make the leap into that status. Furthermore in his reads list on N1 he gives all the reasons for ritoky to be mafia in this instance, and ends up in a conclusion "ritoky is town"?!?!?! I'm not entirely sure if that's the case, but even if it is, go check early in my filter in Imperial Mafia (don't worry it's a short filter and probs on 1st pg) where I did literally the exact same thing with DrHelvetica (who was also town). It is also nothing I can't do as mafia, but there's prior precedent for me doing it as town that should be relevant here. I don't know if i am reading too much into this and it bothers me because i KNOW i have been right on this kinda stuff before. But everyone seems to be disagreeing with me as "rsoultin was Eden's top town read yadda yadda" whatever he gave as an explanation. I just do not see why he would make that post, ever, as town. I'm really still not sure what you mean here. The only original angle I can think of on this is that you think I believed Palmar shooting rsoultin too easily because I'm mafia and knew we didn't kill her... but then you have to know that without a vig in the game this can't be the case, right? All the other stuff around the blues that I said d2 was already debunked as scum and I don't feel like revisiting it unless that's what you mean to talk about. I don't even know why?? He never explains why Damdred is no more mafia. He never explains why Onegu is no more mafia, he just "doesn't even care about Onegu" anymore. Maybe it's the dumb VT claim, which, again, has been there for fucking ages. Well okay, he explains them later. So Damdred did this AtE thing and Onegu claimed VT. rofl. Those things are really easy to do as mafia, rage, or write some words. Fuck i don't know, maybe Eden iss town after all it seems consistent with his line of thinking during the game regarding other things.... I don't think I could flip out like that as mafia unless it's directly about being lynched. I can't fake anger. Nothing else about it is anything I couldn't do as mafia, yes. I wouldn't chalk Damdred's thing up to just an appeal to emotion though. Maybe that's all it is for you but the thing about different playstyles really rang true to me because I tried to do that d1 as well. And yeah the Onegu thing is retarded in hindsight, my b. I'm glad he broke that forever because it pissed me off that he had that in his pocket at all. For reference, this was around the time I last met with my irl mafia group, where there's an infestation of people pseudo-claiming town at game start with stuff like making clear their positive reactions to receiving their card... hell there was a guy who had a townseal where he fucking stood up. It's fucking stupid, but the thing is that the EV of breaking it in the long run is almost certainly lower than the EV of not breaking it, so it is rational to accept it at face value, as fucking stupid as it is. So I was pretty unreasonably willing to believe the VT thing and also unreasonably mad that it happened. I feel like I said something like this before? Don't care to find it lol idk, someone help me out here? I really don't know what to think of this. This kinda reminds me of myself when i started playing mafia but way worse. It seems like Eden does shit for no reason and changes his mind for no reason. I know he is a hardcore busser. So he probably has balls to say whatever shit he evercomes up with as mafia. I don't care about meta here, i want to understand why Eden does these things if he is town because i refuse just believe someone is incapable of doing irrational things as mafia.... It isn't for no reason, but yes, I move really quickly. There's always some kind of purpose to it, it's just not always good. I do this because I'm sensitive to stagnant states, both in a game of mafia and in my regular life. You know how most people are afraid of change? I'm afraid of not-change. It's a big thing for me. Stagnation is depressing and makes me feel like I'm trapped or stuck in something and can't get out. I hate routines. I never take the same path home from work that I took going to work and it's not at all uncommon for me to add hours to my commute home just going to some place I saw on the way and hanging out there. So how's that relate to mafia? Well, as mafia, I never get invested in games. I try but it just doesn't happen. There's no mystery to solve and I get no enjoyment out of deceiving and manipulating people, so it's just waiting around to get lynched. I know how to do it, but I can never find the motivation. And for my town game, the good side about it (ideally) is that I'm never going to lose because I got tunneled into the same vision of the game state. Those stagnant games where people just afk lynch whoever every turn don't happen when I play. The bad thing (as you're seeing) is that I move around way too much. I tried to be disciplined about it this game but just got scumread for it, so I felt like I had to go back to my more unfettered playing style just to get anything done (which also hasn't been successful). So can we please stop scumreading Eden for literally the same shit he has always done every town game forever? I don't even know how to answer some of these charges because it's like "Well ok, I get that, but I do this all the time as town! Doesn't that mean anything??" | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 18 2015 23:53 marvellosity wrote: Eden, was there a reason you read Damdred town beyond the whiny thing he did? Well there was one other thing, but I guess since FF nipped it in the bud I can say it now. He softed a PR at one point. Look in his filter for where he mentions a roleblocker, I responded to it but quickly realized I was being dumb for calling any attention to it. That's about when I started being loud about his change, because it was something that (a) convinced ME and (b) I figured people would listen to and not notice that I had accidentally-maybe-kinda outed him as a PR. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
anyway i'ma read your big post there | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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