Newbie Mini Mafia LIX

On October 07 2014 08:33 Fecalfeast wrote:


Tell me again what that accomplishes, spy?

On October 07 2014 08:59 Superbia wrote:
This is how the game is set up: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/?title=Matrix6

On October 07 2014 11:55 Rad wrote:
Wow, lots to see already.

@Superbia and @Fecalfeast - why so quick to jump on loafery being town?

@loafery - a game that elaborate and town just decided to mass role call? So sad Couple questions for you:

How often over the past year have you had games similar to that? Is it the kind of game you're used to or do you play more games with sane rules like this one?

Do you think mafia will be incapable of giving you positive vibes? Is town capable of giving you negative vibes? You've reached the "not scum" conclusion for Superbia and Fecalfeast pretty quickly, why is that?

On October 07 2014 13:58 abuse wrote:
hi guys~

1) calling loafery town for something like this is either stupid or scummy.
2)
is more than extremely scummy.

3) don't; discuss other games in here please.
4) this game does not use silent nights, you not only are allowed to, but you HAVE to talk during nights.
5) loafery please stop pretending to be a total newbie, and if you are then address such unclarities with either the mods or your coach.

On October 07 2014 14:33 abuse wrote:


lolwat? Burn with fire.

##Vote : loafery

On October 07 2014 14:37 abuse wrote:
where on earth is the "good reasoning".
Why is it wrong to chase you.
How on earth can you trust them based something like that.
Since when is "haven't done anything suspicious" a town tell. If anything it's a scum tell.
"I'm sure they're capable" how the hell can you be sure of something like this at this point in the game. How can town be sure that someone else is town before N1 and after they have had no real conversation with them whatsoever.

there are so many things wrong with this post I don't even know how to end this

On October 07 2014 15:16 Fecalfeast wrote:
also I don't like this association of me and superbia just because we touched pinkies

On October 07 2014 15:23 abuse wrote:


I don't care what you did at that point. What I care is what you did afterwards.
How the hell can you call yourself confirmed town for something like this. That is scummy beyond belief.
Also all the things I mentioned in this post you quoted. You have not addressed any of the issues I point out. Please do so and do so well. Otherwise, no way in hell am I removing my vote from you.

Right now it seems like you're using the excuse of a newbie to make everyone wear gloves while around you.
You're signaling that you are definitely town based on a incredibly stupid reason which is in no way alignment indicative, you imply that people should not chase you or suspect you, you also trust 2 people in the game already, after no real interactions at all and you're trying to buddy them. All this makes absolutely no sense from a town mindset. It comes from a mindset of scum who wants to stay below radar and does not want people to read their posts and judge their posts. The goal of such a mindset, is "I want to get in as many towncircles as possible and stay below the radar" not "I want to find and lynch scum"

I am not coming very overreactive. You slipped hard. And your defense so far was trash, and nonexisten.

On October 07 2014 15:25 Breshke wrote:
sorry guys ive been fairly sick so my sleep routine is all over the place at the moment.

Loafery why did you decide to refer to yourself as confirmed town? I was actually reading you as town until you said this. You shouldn't try to be using yourself misreading the setup to prove you are town it can easily be faked.

On October 08 2014 07:03 Fecalfeast wrote:

I really like this post but could you explain this last sentence? I don't think I'm reading it right.

On October 08 2014 07:57 Fecalfeast wrote:

You want to read him scummy but....

Will you elaborate on why you don't?

On October 07 2014 22:11 Superbia wrote:


It's mostly a gut read plus I'm happy with people pushing on him so far, so I'll let you know when it matters.

On October 08 2014 04:19 Rad wrote:


Isn't that pretty much the only job that town has? To find things that are scummy and pursue them. Any reason you're asking others to do that for you?

You say no one else seems scummy to you, are you suggesting that it's probably loafery or the lurkers that are scum?

Why are you taking the easy route here?

On October 08 2014 06:57 Elvis! wrote:
On Superbia:




I'm not nececarily amazed by Superbia this far, most of his post seem to try hard not to put to much suspicion on anyone.
Typically for a mafia, he posts a lot to seem active, without having much content. He so far avoids to do any FoS in any kind and even called loaf townie for no apparent reason. This doesn't help the investigation on loaf at all, if he doesn't give good reason/proof/ideas about it.


Then "its mostly a gut read plus I'm happy with people pushing him"

@Superbia would you like to elaborate how you think he's town and still like how he's getting pushed? Shouldn't we focus on searching mafia?


Then on loaf:

I really don't like his posts either, and for now he is my top 1 mafia ( Superbia is second ) and I'll ##FoS loaf.
The reason are the following:
1. He heavily concentrates just on defending himself and as mafia do try to do, avoids the questions asked to him by answering different themes from what was actually asked.






Here he gives really weak reasoning for calling these people town. I can imagine it to be a clever strategy to try to make some people read you more town by telling them how "great they are" (they get called town for not being suspicious? How is that special townie behaviour? It just sounds like a null read for me.
Also people like to "be right" and get applauded for their decisions, so saying "ff read me as town with good reasoning instead of chasing after me" is supposed to make ff like loaf and maybe even defend him later on / vote for other people / chase after everyone except him / just work together in general. Especially for newbies it can be nice to get approved by someone.

2. Another thing about loaf is that I don't like how he's playing like he doens't know some things that were in this thread for the weeks it to to get it started. Especially since he seems to be used to complicated setups, this must be "easy" for him? Talking about how "newbie" he himself is is a very convenient way of distracting people from you. Of course being a newbie should not be read as being scum, it just doesn't sound quite right how he mentions his complicated setups and then talks a whole lot of how they were and how this is different.
Just straight up without telling anyone a proper plan, want everyone to do something as radical as to claim on D1?


3. Then another thing I really dislike is, that he talks so much about how he isn't mafia, because he "doesn't do certain things that he thinks are mafia". So if he knows that these things appear mafia and he was mafia, surely he wouldn't do any of these things. This might be my strongest point about him being mafia.
Some quotes to support this:




If I were scum I would surely do all these things I believe are read to be scum. Suuuuuuure.





"Now I'm in the center of attention" (... that I'm now desperately trying to get out of...)


loaf, I'm sorry for (maybe) uncovering some of your strategies, but being not mafia in totally obvious ways doesn't get you any closer to being townie.

On October 08 2014 09:34 Breshke wrote:


From my understanding confirmed town is when you have been checked by a cop and the mod has told them you are town. I can't speak for abuse but you calling yourself confirmed town in my eyes seemed like you were trying to ride off your dumb tell of not knowing the setup don't take yourself off the table for day one which is scummy because you shouldn't be trying to confirm yourself you should be trying to find mafia.

On October 08 2014 09:29 Breshke wrote:


Do you not agree then that people reading you as town just for misreading the OP could be scummy then? Like this is something that could be faked so i don't see how people can get a town read off that. Also in my opinion not trying to answer questions is scummy because it makes it seem like you have something to hide but I understand there been so much focus on you so there's a lot to answer.

I'm uneasy about superbia and ff saying they both basically disagree with the push on loaf but aren't pushing on anyone themselves. Who are you both scum reading? Who do you think should be a wagon for today?

Also my biggest town at the moment is abuse from his hard push on loaf as he was the first one to actively push his reads and doing this as mafia would majorly put the spotlight on him if loaf gets lynched and happens to flip town.

On October 08 2014 09:53 Superbia wrote:
All right. So zen is probably scum here.




Why does zen think he had to do a quick analysis on loaf here? Why does he not exercise a little patience and make a better case later on? Why does he feel the need to get a push out on someone quickly (before others)? This feels like mafia trying to get some easy town points by getting some easy reads out. Town has no need to rush here. There is no EoD in sight. Mafia wants to appear townie, how do they do that? By getting out easy reads and easy pushes. This is one of them. Hence, zen is scum.

So there is a theme running through zen's post that I want to specifically look at: Zen did not read the thread well. This comes up in a later post during which he exclaims:


Now, assuming this is true (more on this later), my point of "why did you need to feel the need to rush out a push" becomes more prominent. After all, abuse was already starting a push on loaf. Why would town feel a need to push on loaf here? It's already being done. Again, this is scum trying to get easy town points.

This leads me to a contradiction between zen's two posts. You see, zen said that he did not read the thread well before he posted his initial post, but in said post he says:



This means that zen did read abuse's push on loaf. It was, after all, abuse who stated "saying that you are confirmed townie is very scummy behavior". Moreover, the behaviour "after" was interaction with abuse, which zen claimed he did not read (though he clearly did). He even quotes abuse's push in his push. What is zen doing!? This is such a blatant lie and super scummy. Again, zen is scum.


Now, during this entire push zen stays absolutely non-committed in his read. In the end zen only "Finger of Suspicion"s him, which honestly translates to "I will join this wagon if it takes off, lol" for me. If zen is not at all confident in his read, why is he making a push? Again, zen wants to fetch town points here but at the same time does not want to get any shit if he flips town. It feels like zen is making the push here so he doesn't get pinged out for inactivity, which mafia is terrified of.


The above reasons are why I am voting for zen and I'm expecting town to vote with me. Let's fucking hit scum d1.

##Vote: The_Zen_Man

On October 08 2014 09:55 Breshke wrote:


The reasons they have said you were town, do you agree with them? You say abuse is jumping on small things to call you mafia then on what grounds do you think ff and superbia are calling you town? If you are town wouldn't you be a bit suspicious that when most of the players are of the mindset that you are scum two of them say you are town with hardly any reasoning.

On October 08 2014 10:14 Superbia wrote:
Have you read the post? Because it's not "he's following a band wagon".

But yeah, I was reading people sort of being iffy on me, so I decided to really quickly thoroughly analyze everything that has happened in the game and then really quickly make a thorough post on it. Good timing though, because you almost called me scum! Oh wait, that was sarcasm.

Please stop being a donkey and vote for zen or give a good reason why you're not voting.

On October 08 2014 10:27 Superbia wrote:


So did you read the entire post or not? Were you like "oh I'm not reading it because he's scum". Or did you read it and conclude I was scum? How does this work? If you think my case is good then stop reading me as scum. If you think my case is bad please tell me why it's bad.

On October 08 2014 10:49 Rad wrote:


What?



That's more than just using the word town. That's straight up claiming he IS town. How are you so sure of his intentions?

##FoS Fecalfeast



It tells me that he recognizes the wagon on loaf is sketchy as hell. I agree with his assessment.



Why are you so hell bent on getting the votes for zen at this stage? Why is your vote not enough while we wait for zen to reply?

On October 08 2014 10:52 Superbia wrote:


Why is he lying? Why is he rushing to make a push? Do you feel that the general mindset behind his post came from a townie perspective. Again, please stop being vague about this. I've explained the scum-rationale behind it. If you have any additional questions please feel free to ask, but if you don't agree with it you need to be specific. Do you feel like I'm lying about it coming from a scummy perspective? Are all the points I brought up not relevant and scummy?

Also want to point out that there is relatively little heat on me, and I don't get pressured into anything as either alignment.

On October 08 2014 11:01 Superbia wrote:


Mafia generally doesn't hide like that. If you're not proactive you will get called out.

On October 09 2014 08:17 Rad wrote:


I think this advice is appropriate.

On October 08 2014 10:44 Breshke wrote:
I want to try explain something in defense of Zen but i am not reading him as town he is still null for me at the moment.

So he made his wall post about loaf which was basically just sheeping abuse. In my first game im not sure if you remember I basically just sheeped the entire game when I tried to make posts because i was finding it really hard to make content of my own.



This post here is probably the reason why zen then pretends that he read through the thread better and only just saw abuses post. Zen don't do this, its hardly ever good to lie as town especially about stuff like this. If you saw abuses post and agreed with it say that.

I do agree however that non committal reads are not good because they don't give much information. Care to tell us your thoughts on people in particular superbia and loaf.


##Vote: The_Zen_Man

On October 08 2014 12:46 Rad wrote:


Careless scum caught in a lie or rushed newbie townie?

Well...

Could a newbie town think he needs to contribute but isn't sure how? Yes.
Could a newbie town think that giving his rushed initial impressions is better than not? Yes.

So the question here is - was he caught in a lie?

My answer is... how could we actually be sure? Your case on him could very well be applied to a newbie town who doesn't have a lot of time to contribute (which he claimed was the case).

I've presented my concern for him wanting others to do the work for him, which IMO is quite scummy. I understand your case but don't feel it follows that he was necessarily lying. I'm patiently awaiting some more input from him now that there's a whole lot more content for him to read.



I agree Superbia. So why are you pushing people so hard to vote for him? "Just vote, you can always retract your vote." - what even is this? The pressure play would be you presenting a case and voting for him. What exactly could you accomplish by getting people to artificially vote for him? (psssst he can read this thread too and will know who's voting for him just cause you said so and who's voting for him cause they believe he's mafia)

On October 09 2014 03:24 Rad wrote:
@The_Zen_Man

Your entire case against superbia is based on this idea that he didn't give reasons for why he thinks loaf is town. You try to downplay his efforts by claiming he did nothing of worth until he made a case. This is an extremely easy angle to attack him from and it completely misses the point.

The objective for town is to FIND THE SCUM. Scum hunt first and foremost, theorycraft after. How do you think scum hunting works? I'll tell you... by looking for areas of suspicion and following up on them.

What have you done the entire game?

1. Piggy backed on other people's ideas.

No need for me to go into the whole abuse/loaf aspect, as it's been beaten to death already. Your main argument now though is just copying me from early game:





He's already answered that indirectly. It's hard to see if you're not engaged in the thread, and scum are most likely to be disengaged.

(I'm reading the thread updates as I write this and I see Super has just pointed this out, even using similar terminology. Whatever, someone will jump on this as me piggy backing on super but it explains why I dropped that pressure on him so... point stands)

2. Constantly explain what town is supposed to do.

Seriously, this is the bulk of your posts. See: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM

3. 0 scum hunting

This is the kicker for me. I pointed this out before and urged you to interact more, but it hasn't changed. You still haven't scum hunted, only theorycrafted. Theorycrafting is the easy part, especially in newbie games. Scum hunting is difficult and requires pushing and adjusting to the situation as it changes. You've just sat back and passed judgement while complaining that there's no content and claiming that people who are scum hunting are scummy for it.

I was waiting for you to come back into this thread and drive the conversation before making my conclusion. Instead you've made a terrible case and done nothing else.

##Vote: The_Zen_Man

On October 09 2014 09:17 Rad wrote:


I think you're newbie town who needs to stop playing the newbie card and get some help.

On October 09 2014 09:27 Rad wrote:


Believe it or not, I had already written #1 and as I refreshed to check updates, super had said the same thing.

Zen was NOT scum hunting, at all.

On October 11 2014 11:23 Rad wrote:


I'm thinking I'd like to know why he waited an entire day to come back to the thread after this bs about waiting to post until I respond to him:



So you've had a day to think about it. WHATCHA THINK? You going to tell us or would you prefer to just sit there looking like a newbie passing judgement.

And I'm also wondering why the hell he's still pushing for a vet claim. My brain is going to explode.

And finally, I'm wondering why he thinks anyone would be cool with him just disappearing for a whole day only to pop back up with a tiny, useless list of his thoughts and a 2 hour limit in which he'll answer questions or some shit.

What a fucking team player that guy is. I don't know how to read him though so /tableflip

Back to lanning with friends =/

On October 11 2014 12:23 Breshke wrote:
FF i would like to hear more from you on different people if that would be okay.

Loaf we don't need vet to claim if we have one unless he is being lynched. The benifits do not out way the information it would give scum. Also have you looked into my case on Elvis at all? What do you think of it?

Also i will be away tonight but i will try wake up an hour or two before end of day but there is a high chance i won't. So if anyone has anything they need to sort out with me i would rather you do it sooner rather than later.

On October 13 2014 16:04 Fecalfeast wrote:

So, you are saying the scumteam is breshke/abuse, right? Sorry you don't say names and I smoke a lot of marijuana

On October 13 2014 16:24 Breshke wrote:


Nope you are misunderstanding my post entirely. What i got from loaf was that he was saying you would only know you are roleblocked if you are a PR i was saying that no you would infact know aswell if you are VT. Also you claiming not tracker could be claiming VT to mafia. If they don't have a role blocker they now know you are VT so i don't see why you did this because you yourself explained why it is bad.

On October 13 2014 16:25 Fecalfeast wrote:

You know I'm town because you're scum. If you want to bus your teammate that works toward my plan but you have a lot of proving to do with not even voting. You could have helped kill breshke YESTERDAY

On October 13 2014 16:26 abuse wrote:


even if you are a vanilla townie, you still get notified if you get roleblocked.
your logic is flawed.

also you are scum.

On October 13 2014 16:36 abuse wrote:


we would have someone claiming to be roleblocked or jailed today.

On October 13 2014 16:40 abuse wrote:
Loafery's entire case on me and breshke being scum is based on the "fact" that vanillas dont know when they are roleblocked. But they do. His entire case FALLS APART. He has NO case.

He is just pushing us because he is scum and he needs 1 more lynch to win.
Do you REALLY think I am scum? and do you REALLY think I would push breshke SO FUCKING HARD for so long, if he was my teammate? I mean seriously?



Also, this is not true. This is Lylo. There is no tomorrow.
We have 5 people left, 2 of which are mafia.
If we lynch town it is 1 town vs 2 mafia tomorrow.

Again - WAITING FOR EVERYONE'S HYPOCLAIMS, Fucking do it, there is a reason for it which I will explain later.

On October 13 2014 16:40 abuse wrote:


You do know that what you're doing now is completely useless because at one point a mod will come here and say that I am correct?

On October 13 2014 16:54 abuse wrote:
Seriously, does even 1 person here think that if me and breshke were scum together, then I would build such huge cases on him, showing every mistake he has made in this entire game?

On October 13 2014 20:58 abuse wrote:


Yes, that must totally be it, not like, all the evidence that we presented and the fact that you were completely useless the entire game and are now pushing us like mad because of no reason whatsoever because all your "reasons" are trash and have been already proven trash by me and the mod .

Honestly, there is no way you could be more confirmed scum than you are now, unless we'd have a confirmed cop check.
Hell, you still have not even replied to my hypo track initiative, because "I don't see the use in this" even after I said that the use would be revealed after everyone does it.

@ Rad,
I am waiting for your hypo tracker list.

On October 14 2014 18:25 Breshke wrote:


Okay fuck it i'm writing it all out again I don't care that Rad said don't talk about tracker stuff because i think we are in a terrible position with two of the people i think are town fighting with each other.

So abuse you thought i was the tracker even though i had said i tracked you last night in my hypo. So unless you had thought about this otherwise it sets up two worlds.

1. You are not mafia therefore ff and loaf are scum

2. You are scum and your partner world 2.1 being ff and 2.2 being loaf submitted the night action. We then look to what the tracker did as it is fairly obvious the tracker hasn't got a hit.

2.1 The tracker tracked loaf and got that he didn't follow anyone. As it is semi confirmed that you abuse didn't submit the night action for the above logic this means that ff must be the one who submitted the night action and is mafia

2.2The tracker tracked ff and got that he didn't follow anyone. Same as 2.1 except loaf must be scum

Of course there is he world where the tracker tracked neither loaf or ff but i don't think that is the case.