EPTNewbie Mini Mafia LIX - Page 2
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On October 07 2014 20:53 Superbia wrote: Nothing to add at this point in time. I'll participate more later, after doing my waking up rituals. I'm not planning to meta-read FF this game (especially early on) since I'm expecting newer players to switch up their game quite a bit (like myself). you don't need to meta-read, just share what is he (or was in that game) like as town, as you have more experience with him than we do. | ||
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On October 07 2014 20:54 Superbia wrote: Also abuse[/b] & loaf probably both [b]town. O_O. interesting. | ||
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On October 07 2014 22:11 Superbia wrote: It's mostly a gut read plus I'm happy with people pushing on him so far, so I'll let you know when it matters. tell me what do you think about this post ? | ||
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First off, I like the push on Zen. It is why I asked Superbia what he thought of my post, since it was 100% saying what my post said. Also Zen, please respond to this question. On October 08 2014 03:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: Mostly it was because of the vote. But i also think that some of his arguments are a little more hardline than mine. I share most of abuses opinions on loaf, but i think the biggest thing we differ on is the whole loaf asking about roles thing. I really think that loaf was merely confused and asking about the rules when he said we all should claim roles, and I believe him when he says it was like that on another game. What did I say about loaf asking about roles thing? How can you disagree with it, while implying that you think what he did was fine, when I clearly said that I do not care whatsoever about that part of his posting, and that what buggs me is the confirmed town thing and the post after that? I want to hear a defense from Zen, addressing everything Superbia said, including the fact that he both did and did not read my posts at the same time. Everything loaf has said so far has been trash(sorry bro.), so for now I believe that he is more likely to be donkey town than scum, as his crappy defense and crappy reads have been consistent throughout everything that has happening so far. Basically he is a coinflip for me currently, but i am less inclined to think that he can be scum. So. ##UNVOTE On October 08 2014 10:10 Fecalfeast wrote: If only I knew what town superbia was like, I would even buy your idea of me trying to emulate him but alas, I know him only as scum. The game where I played with Superbia, we were both town. He tunelled me HARD and was wrong to do so. He actively pushed his thoughts though and did make a few cases (pretty much all of them on me though). He liked to scew information that would match his case, even if it meant taking things out of context, and he completely ignored some posts, if ignoring them would help accuse the one he wants to push. He also pushed until the absolute last moment, when it was clear that absolutely nobody in the thread is biting on the push. He seems to still be active to push people in this game aswell, so I am leaning town on him currently. He also seems like he has improved a bit, as his current push seems more logical than he had when we played together before. I disagree with the statement previously, that lists are useless. They help town a lot, because it is a problem for scum to decide where to put other scum, and can be used to track people's thought changes which should be logical for town, but not as logical for scum. I think we should all share a basic readlist at some point before the deadline. I will do so aswell later, when I read the thread more thoroughly. | ||
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First off, I like the push on Zen. It is why I asked Superbia what he thought of Zen's (previously was written as "my post" ) post, since it was 100% saying what my post said. | ||
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On October 08 2014 16:49 Fecalfeast wrote: You like the push on zen but you aren't voting for him? You voted loaf so quickly. There was a reason for that, as I needed to actually push loaf to get a read on him and get some discussions going. And I did get a kind-of read on him. As for Zen, it is not a wagon I started, though I do agree with it currently. I am not one to throw my vote around too much. I will vote for him when I am more convinced on the matter. I want to hear his defense, and I have not read the thread as well as I would want to yet. I did note that everyone's reaction for the case on zen is more of "I want to protect him" compared to "I want to vote for him" when the case was on loaf. Interestingly, even loaf is defending Zen(with not very good reasoning, from what I skimmed through), even though they are the only 2 wagons currently. I will post a hopefully large post along with my reads and thoughts later. | ||
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About dusts, he is a friend of mine IRL and I asked him why is he so inactive, and he said he has a really tough time at work at the moment. As we are nearing EoD and we need to get as much on the table as possible for the best vote we can do, here is my potential mega post. First off - let's drop the ##FoS stuff. FoS is a good way for you to point fingers without taking any real responsibility, and we do not want that. If you are confident on your reads and are ready to answer for it, then vote, if not, then keep playing and finding information until you are satisfied with voting for somebody. In no particular order - my readlist with comments. 1) FecalFeast at first I really liked this post of his where he does not want to be associated with Superbia , because I think that this kind of post 90% comes from town. He does not trust superbia enough to want to be associated with him. Scum should be happy to be associated with a townie (if he is scum, he knows who the other scum is, so he should know what superbia's alignment is). This can be faked by scum, but I do not think a newbie scum would think that far and if he did, he wouldn't think that anyone else in the thread would notice this. This is not a strong ready, but it does lean fecal towards town turf for me (obviously, if they are both scum then fecal would also not want to be associated with superbia) I like that he stayed null on Loaf for the beginning of the game, and I liked that he said that the push itself is good, but people jumping on the wagon so easily is not as good, without any new reasoning. I agree with this. I really liked called Zen out for at the end of this post I agree with this. Also, his defense to what Rad is saying seems plausible and genuine. On to things that I don't like. This post. What bugs me about this post, is that he really likes this post, which basically trashes loafery, but still he reads loafery null. If he likes this post so much, why does he not let it influence his read on loaf in any way whatsoever? As well as the almost-blind-sheep of superbia's case. Fecalfeast - I have 3 questions for you. Let's imagine that null is not an option for answers. What do you think is the alignment of : Elvis, Rad, loafery. I am reading Fecal as town at this point, but I do want an answer for the above questions, as well as the elvis post reaction. Superbia I understand why he does not read loafery as scum at this point.(what he really thinks of loafery can be seen here) Loafery IS a coinflip at the moment, for the most part. (though I would say that there is a bigger chance he is scum than town, i briefly explain the loafery situation later, in his segment). What he did is understandable, and I would like to clear this up for some people who were pushing some fake suspicions. He liked the push on Loafery because it made people show their thoughts and made everyone have an opinion on loafery. At that point, it did not really matter what loafery's alignment was, because it was possible to read everyone else in the thread based on their thoughts on Loafery. Which is also, why he kept asking for thoughts on other people except for loafery while the push was happening. He also even asked loafery himself, what were his reads on other people, to which Loafery did not answer to a good enough degree. He also, just like Fecalfeast, caught that Loafery is unwilling to call people scum. He is hesitant. Proven by him wanting to call me scum but not calling me that in this post. He is confident in his case, and it is not a bad case. Things I don't like: + Show Spoiler + On October 08 2014 07:41 Superbia wrote: Day had just begun and he is the center of attention. Don't expect too many genuine reads from someone in this position. He was rather quick to call people town, but everyone has their own play style. Also, FF was rather quick to trust me, wouldn't you think? Nobody commented on that. I've played with some veterans by now and some of them don't even know what roles are in the game by d3. Did he talk about he himself being a newbie? Please link to post. FF himself did comment on that, and said that he does not want to be pushed together with superbia just because they touched pinkies. And for the second thing - him not seeing loafer saying that means that he did not read loafery's posts well enough. Which is partially explained by him thinking that loafery is donkey town, but still, how can he be so sure on the donkey town claim, if he does not read the posts enough to see something like this? All in all - Superbia seems town to me so far aswell. Rad His first posts, questioning why superbia and fecal both called loaf town were good, and follows with good questions towards loaf. I really liked the way he latched on to zed's words basically saying "If anyone sees anyone scummy please share". I agree that this is a scummy post, and he gets some townpoints from me for pointing this out so quickly. Asking elvis about the newbie card was also good. Another note about Rad is that he was the only one to want to discuss dusts at this point in the game. This is a double-edged sword though which can have both town and scum motivations. Please do take note of this though, because his further actions will make it obvious which motivations were in effect here. What I don't like: this post Why would he defend Zen before zen does it himself? What possibly be the reason if he does not know Zed's alignment. He also does not want to vote until close to EoD, and currently there are no clear thoughts of his on the table about anyone except Fecalfeast (which does not seem like a legit push by the way.) Why is fecalfeast a better candidate than loaf, Zed or dusts? This does not make much sense in my eyes. What I want from Rad: 1) Thoughts on everyone so far. 2) a vote a decent ammount of time before EoD.. Your words do not mean much. Your votes do. It is not in town's interest to withold your vote until the end when you have to vote. Put down your vote. Explain why you are doing so. I think he is a good player, he asks the correct questions in most parts, but when it comes to accusing someone, he does it with not good enough reasons, and IMO on the wrong people. So, current read on Rad: Somewhere between null and scum. Breshke Okay I am not going to go the way I did with everyone else here, by the formula of what I do like and what I don't, instead I will go chronologically. I liked how he questioned loaf on why he does not read the OP and understand the game setup if he has played much harder setups before this. This was a good catch. Then this happens.. On October 07 2014 15:25 Breshke wrote: sorry guys ive been fairly sick so my sleep routine is all over the place at the moment. Loafery why did you decide to refer to yourself as confirmed town? I was actually reading you as town until you said this. You shouldn't try to be using yourself misreading the setup to prove you are town it can easily be faked. - Okay, good. Then soon after this happens : + Show Spoiler + On October 07 2014 21:54 Breshke wrote: So i also just want to get all my thoughts about Loaf down. At first his dumbtell made me really think he was towny then Calling himself confirmed towny really gave off bad vibes. Also loaf you say most games you played in were complicated having multiple power role setups so do you not read the OP in most of your games to better understand them? At the end of your post here it seems like you were about to give a read on abuse then kind of didn't. Would you mind teling me your thoughts on him? Why did he feel the need to say this again out of the blue? This seems scummy. He then also catches how loaf did not want to call me scum based on the post he did. So.. it seems like he is not thinking highly of loaf, right..? He also posts, talking to loaf, questioning loaf's reasoning for calling superbia and fecalfeast town, merely for thinking loaf is town. Why is that townie, but if I read loaf scummy, then that makes me scum, though it is basically the same thing. This is very correct analysis. but then.. then.. I don't even.. Then THIS happens. + Show Spoiler + On October 08 2014 09:47 Breshke wrote: No im saying if we all sat here and just said we were town mafia would slowly kill us and they would win. So instead we try and find the mafia and lynch them. Also people pushing lynches gives information after the lynch happens as well so its also good in that way. Of course mafia can push lynches but its the reasons they push lynches for that you have to look at and where they flip there reads and what not. Also i like this post as i was having much the same thoughts so i am reading you town for it. I mean seriously? That is all it takes to completely flip and read him as town? Wow.. Then this post.. What he basically does here, is he defends Zen, and votes him in the same post. I mean.. what? He then goes along with Rad's read on fecal, based on the fact that fecal is sheeping superbia, even though he does not want to be associated with him. Which would be a good argument if superbia's case was bad, but it isn't. Superbia's case is pretty good. Why is voting based on it bad? It isn't. He also proceeds to defend Zen. WHY is he defending Zen? Zen's play clearly has flaws at this point. His defense is very much needed otherwise he is the prime candidate for being lynched D1. Why do you defend him, instead of letting him do it himself? Final thoughts on Breshke: The problem here is that we only have 2 scum. And he has made a very questionable flip on loaf, AND he defends Zen for no real reason. If there were 3 scum in the game, I would say that this game is solved already. But there are only 2.. Either way, I do not feel that the actions he made are towny. Currently - Scum read on Breshke. Zen Okay first off, saying it blatantly as it is, - His first large post is 100% copied from what I had already said at that point, just all put together in 1 post. I don't even know how to read this, since it has never happened before, but I sure as hell do not feel comfortable with this. Also as Superbia has pointed out, he has basically both read and not read my posts beforehand which is not logical. Put simply - he lied. Also, as others have previously well pointed out, + Show Spoiler + On October 08 2014 03:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: @Fecalfeast: I think the reason people have gone after loafrey so hard is because there really isn't that much else to go on. His play has been the most scummy like, and that is probably why everyone is going after him. Right now, i really don't have anyone else in mind at all as scum. If someone does find someone else scummy, please share. This post is bad and scummy. Town has to find scum themselves, they should not wait for others to do their job for them. He also says that loaf is his top scum read, and he has no other scum reads, but yet, he thinks that i have gone too hard after him by voting for him. This is contradictory. Why is he partially defending someone who is his only scum read at that point? Also, this post begs the question. If I, abuse, am town, then why would I be afraid of dirt throwback at me? Why do you, zen, even think this way? Why are you afraid of a person who you think is scum, and are accusing of being scum, would throw dirt back at you? If you are afraid of this, how do you even plan to win the game, by never confronting them? If you think someone is scum - VOTE FOR THEM. that is all you can do as a VT. That is your weapon, and that is a weapon that you should be using. Also, please take into account everything I wrote about Zen previously, after skimming the thread ( a few posts above). So far I read Zen as scum. Elvis! First off, not game related - Elvis, are you the same ElvisUptown from Q3, who was also from germany? :3 Game related -> The case on Loaf was okay, but it was an easy case to make, as loaf was already under pressure. I don't like all the subtle "I am a newbie please do excuse me if i slip up somehow" he is expressing. If you are town you should be confident if you want your voice to be heard, and if you want it to influence the vote. If you are scum on the other hand, sure, you can give excuses as to why people should not read too much into what you say, because you are a newb.. This is a newbie game, everyone here should be a newbie. The only exception, it seems, is that some people have read this Extremely helpful post and some have not. Another thing I do not quite understand is, if you understand, that the push I did on loaf was mainly to get everyone talking, and to get information on the table for everyone on everyone, as your posts suggest, then why do you not understand, why does Superbia not read loaf as scum? (posts about this can be found in the filter). All in all - reading Elvis as null. Too early to tell what alignment he's leaning for. Loafer Honestly, I do not agree with anything that he has said. All of his reasoning is flawed. As many have pointed out already.. I will add a few more more things -- Why does he read me as scum, because I pressured him, but he reads Zen as town, and actively defends him, even though Zen has the exact same stance as I do, and he even copied what I said? Hell, he says that I am trying so hard to lynch him(loafer) but in fact, Zen has had more presence for that than I have. Then there is also this post. He reads Superbia as scum, because he is, supposedly, lurking in the background, without giving any information. Then he says, in this post, that making huge posts is towny. Superbia made a huge case on Zen. Everything that loaf had on Superbia should have disappeared. But, in his mind, It didn't. Superbia is still scum for the same reasons in his mind, yet the reasons have disappeared already.. Sigh. Read on loafer - either donkey town or donkey scum. Too early to tell, i think it should be settled later by PoE. dusts complete and utter null. | ||
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On October 08 2014 21:28 The_Zen_Man wrote: ( a post about why superbia is supposedly scum ) ##Vote: Superbia Welcome back to the thread! I am not sure what this post was, basically it just looked like pointing fingers at Breshke, and voting for Superbia. Looking forward to your defensem, addresing all questions that were posed to you, including why did you lie about reading/not reading my posts. | ||
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On October 08 2014 21:43 LoneMeow wrote: Please do not talk about game-related things outside the game thread. This includes asking your IRL friend why he's inactive and such. Sorry, didn't think it would be so strict. Just wanted to poke him to play more actively to have a better experience here, and maybe stick with the community after the game D: Noted though, won't poke him anymore~ | ||
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On October 08 2014 22:03 The_Zen_Man wrote: Oh, before i forget. You asked before about the roles thing: This is what i was referring to: What you implied was that I put much emphasis on thinking that he is scum for not understanding the game setup. What I did, and what you quoted, was asked why does the person read a person more townie than before, because he misunderstood the setup. I did no statements in that post. Nothing that could show what Is my stance on loaf based on that. I asked a question to another player what they think of it. Also - as for your defense above, I do not think it is a good defense. You say you wanted to post with a fresh perspective, yet you quote both mine and others posts in your case on loafery. And you kind of read my posts about him before, but apparently not really. This does not constitute a fresh perspective. If you decided to read what I said about him, you should have noticed what I had said, and that what you are saying is the exact same thing. Why would you even post a huge case, without reading the entire thread up until that point? How can you not be sure that you did not miss anything, and that your case is not filled with flaws, if you did not read things properly? | ||
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On October 08 2014 22:26 The_Zen_Man wrote: You say he did a "scummy move" by telling everyone to claim. Maybe you meant something different, but you did call his move scummy and to me that felt like you critisized him based on that move. (the move being the whole role thing) I said it was scummy, and then , in the same post, right after that, basically said that him retracting those words soon after should have brought him back to null, but fecal read him townie after that. So what you thought was wrong. On October 08 2014 22:26 The_Zen_Man wrote: I quoted your post once because i saw that you also wrote about the confirmed town thing. I never quoted anyone else. I only quoted you because i felt the "confirmed town" thing was pretty serious and wanted to emphasize this. And i read some of your posts, yes, but not all. I don't know what is unclear about that. Also, as i pointed out in my defense, by post was not exactly the same, i had atleast one argument that you did not. For making everyone's life simpler, please show that argument. On October 08 2014 22:26 The_Zen_Man wrote: And the reason for posting a case without reading the whole thing was simply because i wasn't gonna post in a while and had an oppurtunity then. I clearly said that I hadn't read the whole thread carefully, but I did still come up with an argument you did not so I think that my post was worthwhile, even if it only was one argument. That didn't end very well did it. Your post was worthwhile, but not because it was one argument. It was worthwhile for the reason why you are under pressure now. If you are actually town, hopefully you take something from this for next game. At the moment, I personally, am not swayed by your defense. If you want to be cleared, give input on someone who you think is really scummy. Your case on superbia, at best(though I do not even think it does that) just plunks a few holes in his case on you, it does not make superbia scum, so your vote on him does not seem justified, and just feels like you are trying to get back at him. Do you really think superbia is scum, just because he didn't treat you and breshke the same way? You and breshke were not in the exact same shoes, even if you were, why are you yourself not looking at breshke? do you really think that "Superbia is scum, even moreso than loaf". I mean really? Moreso than loaf, even though you made a case like this on him, and objectively your case on superbia is only there because he made a case on you. What you are doing now, is you are making posts without reading the thread properly, and this is causing confusion. This is anti-town and fits the scum agenda. That is why you are being voted for.. | ||
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for now. @Zen, the answer to your bolded question is in my large post in the superbia section. I've also mentioned this in my large post, but why are you afraid of dirt throwback? Dirt throwback is the best way other townies can see the person responds to pressure, which often gives more information than the push itself. dust, please say something and vote for somebody, to avoid you being modkilled... | ||
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I think zen is a good lynch, but if we consider that this is a newbie game, there is a wildcard that he can be a town that messed up very badly, so the chance of him flipping town in the end is there. even if not a big one.. Also more people need to step up and voice their concerns and their thoughts on everyone.. Currently people not laying their cards down about everyone else will hurt us a lot on D2.. I'd much rather go into D2 seeing how people read others before we received at least 2 flips via D1 lynch and N1 kill.. | ||
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Superbia, get the ball rolling. What are your reads on everyone else other than zen? | ||
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EBWOP. My point mainly being, that if we do not lynch scom, or scum is not modkilled then we as town have nothing to really go by at the start of D2.. no rel analysis to make, as many people did not even interract at all with each other. Superbia, get the ball rolling. What are your reads on everyone else other than zen? | ||
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On October 09 2014 03:23 Superbia wrote: I have the ball rolling already dude. We're also not lynching a lurker. They get modkilled or replaced. It's a waste of a lynch. My circles: town: abuse leaning town: loaf fecalfeast Rad null: Elvis! dusts scum: The_Zen_Man breshke Alright. If he gets replaced then I'm good with this. If just modkilled, then, as I said, im not sure 3 people dying before D2 is a good thing for us to happen.. your list is well noted. Rad, since you are here now too. What do you think of other people other than fecal and zen? (though i would like to know what you think of fecal at the moment aswell) | ||
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