EPT[T] Cell (Mini?) Mafia III
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Amiko
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Amiko
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/in ! | ||
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Amiko
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Feel free to not talk about this until after the game though, I'll play it either way ^^ and I don't want to put you as a host in a position where you need to talk about strategy before the game begins. And I have only lightly skimmed prior games so I'm sure we can even things out with smart town play :D | ||
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Amiko
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On August 07 2014 09:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote: D1 is just mayor elections, no lynch. No N0, game starts D1. First lynch is on D2, of which one will die on N1. Mayor selects the order of the cells. So mayor selects the order at the end of D1? | ||
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Amiko
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On August 08 2014 00:44 GlowingBear wrote: Oh god I'm playing with Teemu, Haru, Rayn and Amiko. I'm pumped. Haha I was going to say, why do you have to snub all the other players who signed up :D | ||
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Amiko
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/out (I will hope to re-/in in about a week if the game has not started!) | ||
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Amiko
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/f4OHpMt.png) /in | ||
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Amiko
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/e7nFudM.png) You should somehow link this with the wrestling mafia game :D Btw if you want to play with 15 instead of 20 I'm down (but I'm okay with waiting to try to get more too) | ||
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Amiko
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Amiko
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Amiko
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Amiko
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I'd prefer to put Cell C (my cell) on Day 3 since Marv and Oats are experienced and hopefully will be active enough to have good filters to work with. Day 3 seems ideal to me because it means that there is more accountability for what they post (since one of us is flipped) and I am hoping you'll all see I'm town by then. Day 4/5 is alright I guess because I think I make more use of filters/prior quotes than other players, so if I'm around longer it means more filter to use. But, 3 would be my pick. I wouldn't mind Cell E going earlier because in the games I've read/played with her, ninjabunnies tends to be more active early game and less active on later days. lilwade has been lower-activity regardless of the game day. Dunno Apathy. | ||
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Amiko
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I cohosted in Order (I remember he caught mafia D1 and then got roleblocked as rolecop forever and things crashed and burned) I read a few other ones, I remember him mostly sheeping in a recent one. | ||
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Amiko
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Amiko
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On August 28 2014 09:04 Holyflare wrote: Did you read the other cells? Yeah, but either they are players I don't know or I don't have an impression of those players that suggests a particular ordering for the cells. | ||
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Amiko
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Amiko
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As to throwing their hat in the rink for mayor, my impression is that who is selected as mayor is relatively unimportant since the ordering of cells is something we should all talk about and decide. I guess I'd give a townlean to them for making themselves the center of attention by starting a campaign. I do like that Apathy seems into engaging with the ordering of cells along with his campaign, but it's hard to tell whether he is being serious. ritoky copied his post and style in his 'freedom' thing which could be scummy - if I was mafia, I would want to try to keep consistent to my prior games and working off a similar approach seems like a way to do it. I don't really find this compelling though, since I figure town would probably be consistent without worrying about it. Besides that? I feel like I should be able to figure out who not really holyflare is from the post with Korea but I haven't yet. | ||
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Amiko
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Why is D a more sensible start than any other cell? Also, if you feel C is easier to read you should agree with me that it should be in the first three. If a cell is relatively easier to read, it should be in the first three days so we can be sure we get a vote on it. | ||
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Amiko
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 the korea should have tipped me off anyway haha | ||
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Amiko
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Amiko
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Amiko
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On August 28 2014 09:41 Professor Apathy wrote: I just don't think we have to be afraid of a 3-0 stomp here and can play a bit more risky due to the set-up thus leaving stronger players for later. Didn't mafia win the first two games 3-0? I didn't read the whole things but the pictures on the OP suggested that | ||
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Amiko
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Amiko
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To me, the suggestion of Cell D earlier seems off because there are two unknowns off the bat. Granted, I am pretty sure I know who Not Really Holyflare is now, but I don't think you do. It seems to me that cell would be tougher to read. I'm also a little mixed on your response - As not having Cell B on D1... that explanation feels kinda weird to me. I don't think there's any cell where I know now that I can read all three players. If we can read two, that's enough. So why highlight one player you can't read? | ||
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Amiko
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On August 28 2014 10:14 Holyflare wrote: Also lilwade is probably definitely 100% mafia. He's posted in his newbie game quite a few times since we got our pm's and not here at all I think this happened with some other people (foolishness, maybe gumshoe) and at least one flipped town, maybe both. Anyway they were just reaching deadline in the newbie game so I wouldn't chalk it up to much. That said I still think E earlier may be better since Apathy is fairly active and I feel bunnies should be. | ||
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Amiko
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I do not disagree with the logic behind the ordering, but you ignore what (I think) is more important - that we are guaranteed to reach at least Day 3, but not Day 5. So let me ask you this - which groups do you think are likely to be the easiest to read? The hardest? | ||
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Amiko
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On August 28 2014 10:42 Holyflare wrote: Tambo's entrance is what i expect a bh entrance to be lol | ||
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Amiko
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I feel like your ordering is strongly based on the idea that marv will lead lynches in a good way / scumhunt well. But, even under that approach isn't it beneficial to put Cell C before D5? That way at least there's some indication as to the authenticity of marv's reads. | ||
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Amiko
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You answered the ones you felt would be hardest to read and I pretty much agree with you. But, which group do you think will be the easiest for town to read? It seems like most people feel it's C. If that's the case, it should be in the first three. Moreover, if there was one group where I felt 100% certain we'd get mafia, I'd probably want that group to third. That way I know: (1) the group is reached, so we get a point for town; and (2) at least one mafia is known and that information can be evaluated in at least the following day; and (3) the reads of two players in the cell are validated -- the only way we get absolute authenticity of a read is if we lynch the mafia (if we lynch a town, we don't know with certainty which of the two survivors was mafia). For D vs. E, I don't have a huge preference... as I said earlier, ninjabunnies seems to be more active early and less active later on, so I'd like E to be earlier in the game. But, I don't care all that much if it's D1 vs D2 - I think bunnies dropped off activity D2 in Detention when you were hosting for us so D1 is slightly better in my opinion. For the DEACB / DEACB platforms, I'll think about it. Not enough impression of A/B yet. | ||
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Amiko
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Amiko
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We need 3 correct lynches to win. It doesn't matter whether those wins are D1, D2, D3 or are D3, D4, D5, or whatever. Thus, the most important thing is to order things such that at least 3 cells have the highest chance of success for lynching mafia. Let's assume for a second that Cell C is the easiest to read (and I can't say for certain that's true but I'll run with it for this example). If the cell didn't have people with high activity/content, I would typically want that cell to be first. Not because we need to start with a win, but because then we would be most likely to get verifiable information earlier. If we lynch correctly D1, then we know one mafia and two town on four days. If we lynch correctly D3, then we only have that information for two days. However, in this case people are saying that the easiest cell to read is also the cell with players that are likely to give high contributions and sure, that has weight too. But, I feel like if there is a cell that is the easiest to read, I absolutely wouldn't vote for it to be last. | ||
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Amiko
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Imagine there’s five groups. Three are “hard” and in these groups we have a 40% chance to lynch properly. Two groups are “easy” and in these groups we have an 80% chance to lynch properly. Now, pick between these orders: 1) 40%, 40%, 40%, 80%, 80% 2) 80%, 80%, 40%, 40%, 40% Ordering 2 is better. Better chance to win by odds. And even if we mislynched D1-3, order 2 is better because it reduces the chance of us getting swept 3-0, which means more days of play, which means more posts & information. If a cell is on the easier side, it should somewhere within D1-D3. @Oats: Am I a happy person? Yeah, I think so, plus this has been a pretty great week for me. Question for you: So far a lot of the people in thread seem to want to sheep marv. Is this good? @marv: Do you think our cell should be last? Why? | ||
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Amiko
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all of you guys who are trying to order groups based on how easy or hard they are are missing the point. all that matters is which people we want to have alive at the end. This is provably wrong. @Apathy: I don't live in the future so I can't really predict how reads will change. If you admit to being scum on D2, I'll wish your cell was D2. | ||
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Amiko
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I'm on board with the idea that reads get easier over time. But how does that at all support your proposed order of Cell E last? | ||
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Amiko
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What are your feelings on the ease of Cell B? I'm considering you for a vote (EADCB) but I am mixed as some people are suggesting MysteryMeat is an easy read. | ||
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Amiko
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I don't have a ton of experience with Wave or HF, and I don't feel MysteryMeat1 is an easy scum pick. To explain, he was mislynched as town in three of his five games in the database and I felt there were decent arguments for his play as scummy in those games. I'm not sure the best way to read him right now, but I'm fine with the idea that I don't have to. Going to vote for Holyflare on the EADCB / AEDCB ticket. I should be back around before deadline. ##Vote: Holyflare | ||
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Amiko
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Amiko
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In comparing B to C I said this earlier regarding Mysterymeat- On August 29 2014 03:41 Amiko wrote: I don't have a ton of experience with Wave or HF, and I don't feel MysteryMeat1 is an easy scum pick. To explain, he was mislynched as town in three of his five games in the database and I felt there were decent arguments for his play as scummy in those games. I'm not sure the best way to read him right now, but I'm fine with the idea that I don't have to. Given that, why did you put cell B as fourth instead of fifth? I'll put up some thoughts on Cell A in a bit | ||
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Amiko
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Pregame: On August 08 2014 05:08 Blazinghand wrote: isn't the best way to order groups literally the opposite of this This suggests that Blazinghand thinks the best way to order the groups is with the highest activity first. Ingame: On August 28 2014 10:36 Blazinghand wrote: don't listen to any of this lunkheads. vote me. here's the order I'll use: D E A B C This is because we want put off C and B, which contain high activity players, to the end. . . . This suggests that BH wants to put players with high activity at the end. :| | ||
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Amiko
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@Anyone else who said Cell C was an easy cell to read - this was at least NotReallyHolyflare and I think also Apathy Why do you feel this is the case? I have never been scum on forum mafia, so I don't see why it would be easy to read me as town/scum. Even if marv is easy to read, do you feel that confident about reading Oats? Give some basis on this | ||
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Amiko
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On August 29 2014 07:12 Professor Apathy wrote: I tend do agree. batsnacks and ritoky come off as misguided, yet townish people. BH on the other hand hasn't made me think he's town. So from a process of elimination point of view it's BH right now. What about batsnacks seems misguided? Practically the only thing of substance I see from him is that he voted Blazinghand, who you also voted for. How is it misguided if you agree with him? | ||
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Amiko
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Amiko
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What do you think of batsnacks? | ||
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Amiko
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batsnacks, marvellosity, WaveofShadow, and Professor Apathy all voted for Blazinghand without really making an argument or noting the (what I think was fairly obvious) slip. Does this mean anything to you on their alignment? | ||
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Amiko
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Can you talk a little more about ritoky? I don't have a great sense of the cell yet, but I think ritoky's posts (talking to/about Holyflare mostly) more than batsnacks' posts. I don't really have a sense of batsnacks from reading him yet. Is the idea that serious ritoky = town, silly ritoky = scum? Or just that serious ritoky = town? | ||
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Amiko
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I think I like ritoky's posts (Talking to/about Holyflare mostly) more than batsnacks' posts. (I don't feel that strongly about it though, I feel like neither has given much of substance to read through yet) | ||
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Amiko
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What about batsnacks seems misguided? Practically the only thing of substance I see from him is that he voted Blazinghand, who you also voted for. How is it misguided if you agree with him? @WaveofShadow: Man you seem so down this game, every post makes me feel like you just lost to some hearthstone boss on heroic. I don't think your cell is solved (MM1 is not always towny when he's town, Blazinghand may be able to give some insight on this) but we can worry about it again a little later in the game. You talked a little on ritoky & blazinghand. Any thoughts on batsnacks? Thought on ritoky- I'm just going to say that although Not really holyflare's post is the kind of thing that would normally make me think he's scum, I feel like knowing the player makes it not the case. If I have to out who I am fairly sure he is a little later I will do so, but I do kinda like that ritoky picked up on that post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=33#657). I'm out for a bit :3 | ||
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Amiko
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On August 29 2014 11:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Lol that's totally not a slip though amiko. You never explained how his pregame stand is town favored and how his in game stand is scum favored. You didn't do jack shit about showing how that contradiction makes him scum, just cherry picked something that 'looks' bad but actually isn't. Try harder for the mislynch please. Everything you said here is pretty awful so I'll take a minute to address it-. It doesn't matter whether his pregame stance is townfavored and his ingame stance is scum favored. Pregame he said one strategy was the best, but ingame he proposes the opposite. I didn't say that made him scum, and I didn't vote for him. If you had read my next posts you'd see that I was looking at ritoky and batsnacks. It's something to bring up, see how BH responds, and then make reads accordingly. If you found that post worth commenting on, why don't you weigh in on the way that batsnacks / marvellosity / WaveofShadow / Apathy voted for BH and their explanation (or lack thereof)? | ||
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Amiko
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On August 29 2014 11:41 Oatsmaster wrote: I haven't even posted in this phase yet ritoky. Why so mad. How is amiko attempting to get reads? He made up his mind already. With no conversation with any of the parties Oh I meant to put this in the above post too, do you really think my last few posts (asking people about BH's post and about other players in Cell A) somehow indicates I've made up my mind already? :| Anyway it's not worth spending much more time on you right now since we are D5 anyway | ||
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Amiko
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On August 29 2014 12:24 WaveofShadow wrote: @amiko Where do you get that I'm 'down' from my posting? Also what exactly would that make me if I were, and why? As far as batsnacks goes, guy is likely town. Acting like an idiot in the face of everybody likely thinking you're scummy and/or dumb is way more often a towny trait. Despite the stubbornness. You seem mopey and not too engaged from your posts. Like, you seemed to feel the mayor phase was really tiresome and didn't seem to engage (ex: although you were asking people to vote for you I don't think you ever really discussed ordering even jokingly?) despite posting a couple times through the phase. I didn't really intend to use your mood for a read though, I just felt like you wanted to play but didn't feel into it so I wanted to see what you thought on some of the D1 and you had already commented a little on BH/ritoky but nothing on snacks. Since I have no particular read on batsnacks yet I was curious. | ||
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Amiko
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It's been so long since I've ridden a bike I don't think I can give you any guidance for the tires :D I don't really like Apathy/Marv's vote on BH because I don't really understand the "misguided" comment at all. It doesn't really make much sense to me when (1) batsnacks votes Blazinghand (2) Apathy + marv say batsnacks is [u]misguided[u], then vote for Blazinghand And when reading batsnacks I didn't really see what there was to be misguided (or correctly-guided) about in his non-crazy posts. I get what you are saying about PA voting HF for mayor then seeing HF as mafia, but those two things honestly feel kind of unrelated to me. I voted for HF, but it wasn't because I felt he was more town, it was more because the order he provided seemed more likely to get two things I was hoping for him (E first, C fourth). It doesn't matter much now, but in retrospect I think voting for a player that gives potential choices (such as indicating they may pick one of two choices) rather than a firm ordering is bad for town... but that's a lesson to try to remember in Cell 4, I guess. If ritoky has always been town in forums I'll probably focus more on just this game from him to try to get reads. | ||
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Amiko
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Four people voted on BH - (1) batsnacks, (2) apathy, (3) marv, (4) you. I don't feel I'll get too much from talking to (1) batsnacks (given that his rationale was VOTE BH GAME EZ). I questioned (2) apathy & (3) marv because I don't feel their rationale makes sense (I don't see how they see batsnacks as misguided) I asked (4) you about your rationale because you actually discussed ritoky and BH a little in your post, so I wanted to know your thoughts since you indicated you had decided between the three and hadn't given an explanation of a player I can't read yet (batsnacks). | ||
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Amiko
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On August 29 2014 14:00 Oatsmaster wrote: Come on dude, this post obviously means that you think its scummy and that hes scum. You are just avoiding taking a stand because its 'suspicious'. In fact, your pussyfooting around the lynch is really weird considering you appear to have made your decision and are just waiting for the right time and feel to vote. Or want to wait for a better candidate to appear. Again this. You think that the slip is a reason to vote for BH. Therefore the slip is scummy. You maintain the stance that you dont really know who is scum. Inconsistent. The inconsistency from Blazinghand is a reason to vote for him. But it's not the only thing I'm thinking about and I certainly didn't conclude 100% scum from that post. Btw, here's another post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=130#2582) which is a bit similar - in that game I'm town, I point out phrasing by hopeless1der that looks like a mafia slip in the context of the game. However, I do not find him the most scummy player and instead nuke kitaman27. I point this out because the context is the same (someone does something that seems like a blatant slip, but I do not put a ton of reliability on it... I even used the same :| face). Anyway there's more I have to say about BH, I'll do that in a minute | ||
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Amiko
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Why do you seem so upset about town not following your proposed lynch order when the order selected is almost the same as your proposed lynch order? | ||
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Amiko
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I'm a little confused by your post here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=37#736 | ||
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Amiko
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On August 29 2014 13:27 WaveofShadow wrote: Do you think apathy or marv are scum? On August 29 2014 14:23 WaveofShadow wrote: If marv's was a defence then it's purely chainsaw because he barely makes mention of MM1 at all. So yes, intriguing I suppose especially since he took back the 'bolded' comment after. As far as amiko I read him pretty strongly as town so far, though I should ask (if you're still here amiko)---you seem to have more to say regarding MM1 than anyone else so far especially since you're not even in his cell. What's the deal with that? I don't actually feel like I have said (or have much) to say on MM1 yet - basically, I just feel like he'd be the easiest target in your group because he doesn't scream town when he's town. Since there was sentiment that your cell was solved, I wanted to point out that it may not be so easy. I haven't actually reviewed MM's games though, so what Holyflare was saying regarding his posting style may be correct, I probably won't look at MM's history until later in the game though. I mention this because I figure that among marv & oats, I'd think they'd be more likely to try to mislynch me than each other since I have less experience in the game. And, if they remember any experience with me, the only game we played together, Catastrophe, I did not appear towny at all (to be fair, it wasn't in my interest to appear towny). That said, oats' post on me feels more scummy since he seems to be misconstruing my comments in a way to present me as mafia. If I had to pick right now, I'd say oats is the scum in our cell. As for apathy, I'm really not sure but I had a pretty good feeling on him D1 despite some posts that I disagreed with (putting Cell E at the end, for example). For Cell E, I think I need to talk to bunnies more to get a good sense of her. | ||
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Amiko
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On August 29 2014 17:06 Holyflare wrote: Amiko whenever you return: why were you questioning my order like it was something i changed when I've pasted the order I'm doing several times over? Also it's the order you were originally ok with iirc (maybe a and d were switched which would be even weirder). I feel like your questions don't really lead to anything alignment indicative, especially as I'd already elaborated why i did the order i did. Is there something you were looking for? I was disappointed because there were essentially two choices you left open for yourself (Spot 1/2 as E or A, Spot 4/5 as C or B) and you picked the order I didn't want in both cases. This doesn't make me think you are scum, but it made me consider that electing a mayor who leaves options open in a vote is not town favored - IMO the mayoral election should essentially be voting for an order, not voting for a person, but leaving some things to your discretion make it more voting for a person. That said, I agree it probably doesn't lead anywhere alignment indicative and to be honest I don't care about it that much right now anyway. | ||
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Amiko
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On August 29 2014 21:48 marvellosity wrote: Amiko, why don't you care that I called you mafia twice?  I tend to ignore people who call me mafia if they don't give me any reasons. I guess you are not scumreading me right now, but I mean looking at the reason you gave WoS (my posts bored you) I think it's good I didn't waste the time. sry got busy will post more in a couple hours | ||
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Amiko
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@Oats - Re: whether scum!Blazinghand gives up I skimmed his filter in the games where he was lynched D1- (Mafia) In "I'm a Cop You Idiot Mafia" (filter) I think he did, pg 2-4 of his filter basically came across as saying screw you town. In that game, his attitude seems to be that his lynch is a sure thing. Compare to (Town) Aperture 2 (filter) where he often states that he won't be the lynch and defends. In (Town) Noir (filter) he was town and thought he was being counterclaimed by mafia. I feel like he wasn't as defiant about getting lynched, but it makes a little more sense because he was assuming that he was trading 1-1. I only looked at the ones where he was lynched D1, don't know about if he gave up when lynched later. Anyway from a meta-view I feel it is more consistent with scum giving up and being angry at town than town. It's certainly possible to he's moving, but with over a day left until the lynch it seems to me like it's too early to have thrown up his hands. | ||
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Amiko
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It's hard to trust the idea that things just happened to fall on two inconvenient days when it seemed like you weren't being that attentive to the thread earlier (and due to not mentioning it) - for example On August 28 2014 10:49 Blazinghand wrote: . . . I haven't read the thread, because none of you worms are close enough to my level to merit my attention, and today is a lynch day. However, this statement intrigues me. Why do we have a guaranteed scum lynch in C? (fyi this was from mayoral election day not lynch day so the first sentence is probably just missing a "not") | ||
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Amiko
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On August 30 2014 05:13 Blazinghand wrote: Lol, are you serious amiko? If you are going all the way back to cop idiot mafia, you're cherrypicking hardcore. You're the scum in your group. I always fight as scum. I do everything to win regardless of alignment. Your attempts to falsify the truth are ridiculous. Cop You Idiot Mafia I was literally modconfirmed scum starting D1. Like, literally mod confirmed. god, how are you so incompetent I didn't see that - I only read your filter from games where you were lynched d1 (as town or mafia) - from your filter I thought you and another player had both cc'd cop in that game. If it's improper context then I'm fine disregarding that game. Are there other games you can point to on whether you give up as mafia? | ||
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On August 30 2014 05:19 Amiko wrote: @Holyflare: I think I understand your explanation of why you saw batsnacks' day 1 as misguided; I can understand the idea that ABCDE is a safer order than others even if it's wrong. But how do you feel he is still misguided and trying to help today? I don't feel like he's really doing anything productive or helpful marv can you comment on this also? | ||
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Amiko
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Yuma -Mafia: This feels along the lines of giving up when you are being lynched as mafia. + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2014 07:10 Blazinghand wrote: Look ok so we're gonna lynch me, I get it. I'll read up on the thread since it's pretty short, and let's strike a deal: between now and the lynch, you keep your vote on me, but treat me as confirmed town. We can bounce reads off each other, etc. Then I die. Sounds good guys? On May 17 2014 07:13 Blazinghand wrote: you have nothing to lose and everything to gain On May 17 2014 08:32 Blazinghand wrote: there's no harm in listening. i won't even contest my lynch. On May 17 2014 08:35 Blazinghand wrote: well, given that there were 2 fake blueclaims besides mine, I think we can pretty easily find scum amongst those. just lynch them after me and we win, right? For You Only Shoot Once I dunno, you sort of defended (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/448443-you-only-shoot-once-mafia?page=60#1199) and sort of posted random stuff On May 04 2014 09:23 Blazinghand wrote: I held a snake once as a child. Someone in class brought him to school as a show and tell. During elementary school I had a turtle named "Rough". He was green. I held him several times. I think you were Eccleston in smurf mafia but it's not entirely clear to me so I didn't give it much of a read? It looked like you had one or two defensive posts on the date but the style is so unlike yours (tons of ellipsis and more rambling) that it's hard to say. Anyway Yuma seems like a good enough example anyways... Looking at those I don't feel strongly persuaded one way or the other, but it does make me feel that as mafia you may accept a lynch on you. disclaimer: I didn't check to see ifyou were modconfirmed scum in any of those games. | ||
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Amiko
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Amiko
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Do you still feel batsnacks is misguided today? Do you feel like he's really doing anything productive or helpful? Do you feel that he thinks he is doing something productive or helpful? | ||
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Amiko
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On August 30 2014 05:58 Blazinghand wrote: in yuma mafia i wasn't literally modconfirmed scum but I repalced in for a dude who everyone thought was 100% scum. also all that was trying to convince people not to lynch me anyways also read the damn post you linked from yoso, you call that giving up?? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/448443-you-only-shoot-once-mafia?page=60#1199 as a final note, this is normally where the player defending himself swears on his honor that he's town and not making his IRL excuse up. I have no honor, so such a promise from me is meaningless. I can swear this though: on my honor as a dude who's willing to lie and make up IRL excuses, there's no way in hell I'd make this up as scum when I could make up something much better on my honor as an unscrupulous player, I would never go with such an inconvenient story as scum. this story is the truth On YOSO, I don't call that post giving up, but it's hard to consider it a serious defense when you start talking about pets in your next few posts. Anyway I don't particularly disbelieve that you are moving... but I still feel like you probably should be able to play the game more than you have. | ||
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On August 30 2014 06:09 ritoky wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.gyazo.com/3484a046b00303869de8c3ce7bc0a705.png) oh, while i read here's this breakdown of current votes by cell. marv voted for BH, Oats voted for batsnacks | ||
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I don't think I've actually used those phrases, but I understand the question. When I look at batsnacks' posts I feel I probably cannot read him or get much from talking to him. I feel like you probably are not scum, so I'd rather just try to figure out if Blazinghand is scum. | ||
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It's an indicator but it's not much for me to work with. Batsnacks' posts feel like they can be trolling or silly as easily as it could be mafia. Anyway, I mean for me I understand that there is value in engaging in a thread as town - it helps people see your thought process and hopefully townread you. But I've seen plenty of players lurk but not be mafia, and plenty of players who post random stuff and not be mafia. I get what you are saying (batsnacks isn't making it easier for me) but eh it's not enough to persuade me that much one way or the other. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=33#647 | ||
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On August 30 2014 11:09 batsnacks wrote: I'm going to do a ritoky, only mine is right the first time: Here is where I'm at: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/alBvQCz.png) Here is why I am at where I'm at: BH: He -actually- posted an entire photo album of him moving. ... Why does this make you think Blazinghand is scum? I don't understand this read. | ||
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On August 30 2014 19:13 Not really holyflare wrote: ##Vote: batsnacks FYI this is not in the vote post | ||
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On August 30 2014 11:09 batsnacks wrote: I'm going to do a ritoky, only mine is right the first time: Here is where I'm at: . . . 27bunny: This isn't her scum meta. . . . What about bunnies' play do you feel is not her scum meta? I don't feel her play this game is consistent with the town games I've seen from her. As town, I remember her pressuring other players D1 pretty early. This game she seems to have been joking for long after most players has started getting more active into the game, her posts all seem responsive rather than scumhunting. | ||
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On August 30 2014 12:24 batsnacks wrote: Admittedly, I don't even understand my reads most of the time I make them. They are right more often than I understand them. But BH is mafia. Did you see the photo album he posted instead of "proving" I'm mafia, like he said he would? This suggest that one reason you scumread BH is because he has not proved you are mafia today. However, that obviously was not your reason to vote him, because you voted him at the beginning of the day. So why did you vote him? Also, On August 30 2014 11:09 batsnacks wrote: your mom: First, smurf. Second, has voted BlazingHand two days in a row for reasons I am not sold on. Your mom didn't really provide any reasons when he voted for Blazinghand + Show Spoiler + On August 30 2014 00:59 your mom wrote: ##Vote: Blazinghand When he did provide reasons, it seemed to be that Blazinghand is not trying to solve the game. + Show Spoiler + On August 30 2014 01:07 your mom wrote: oats you feel like bh is trying to solve the game or find the scum in his cell? i only see him complaining about him getting lynched and how he found a perfect strategy, and nothing is lft of his D1 tryhardness On August 30 2014 03:52 your mom wrote: your ideas were good but your followup this day was shite. I don't put that much weight into you having a different plan than pre game rather than above argument. starting tryhard and then going ranty/silent is scummy, enthusiasm for discussing your plans but no real attempts to find scum in your cell yet... If you scumread Blazinghand for not trying to solve the game (see above) then why would you disagree with your mom's reasons? | ||
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##vote: batsnacks | ||
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What do you think of batsnacks' comments on you? | ||
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Does that mean I don't get an answer? I don't think your reason for townreading Apathy is good - him giving up his smurf easily means almost nothing when other players already said they figured out who he was (I think from that anime picture)? Anyway he is likely to be town IMO, but more because his d1 felt pretty good and bunnies' play feels pretty scummy to me. | ||
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You seem to think BH is scummy for not leading town. As someone many people expected to lead town, why have you done so little to lead town today? Why are you dismissing me instead of trying to convince me if I am voting for someone you think is town? | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=55#1085 | ||
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On August 31 2014 01:42 marvellosity wrote: I've not stated or even insinuated that once. On August 31 2014 01:34 marvellosity wrote: we're what, 4.5h from deadline? and BH has done nothing, and he's not leading the votes. | ||
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Because if I poke him he answers my question whether he intends to be a jerk or not. Maybe he is still voting Blazinghand partly because BH has done so little, but that couldn't have been his reason when the day started (because BH hadn't done nothign yet) Since he's said he doesn't feel that BH is scummy for not leading town, it indicates to me his reasoning is that he still townreads batsnacks, or feels that Blazinghand's low activity is scummier than batsnacks' activity. Imo batsnacks' last few posts don't look that good to me so he feels scummier. | ||
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What do you think of the content batsnacks actually posted? Have you considered it or are you just set on voting Blazinghand because of his non-activity? If you can convince me batsnacks' last few posts are better than I thought I'm open to moving to Blazinghand. | ||
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Marv is able to be a dick and not answer questions because it is his "meta" that he will ignore your questions. Marv wants to vote Blazinghand because he doesn't want Blazinghand to be able to get away with not playing the game. Btw this is not indicative to me of an alignment. More indicative of personality >:D | ||
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On August 31 2014 01:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Ugh I hate when people do this. It looks really scummy, like you're hoping that somebody makes an excuse for you to vote a towny (not that BH is necessarily). [ Yeah I understand that, but if marv is going to try to lead town at the end of D1 I'd like to think he's actually read one of the few posts from batsnacks that has substance. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://valblog.s3.amazonaws.com/may24/yoda.jpg) | ||
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LOL The prologue of that book even takes place in California | ||
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Could you answer my three posts on you? Otherwise you would have to flip five coins. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=54#1078 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=55#1083 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=55#1085 Just trying to make things easy | ||
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On August 31 2014 02:41 batsnacks wrote: @amiko If you don't understand why me, and others, voted BH then I won't be able to explain it to you. Sorry. Bunnies has been in the past more conversational as scum and less analytical. I voted BH at the beginning of the day because I thought ritoky and me were the towniest d1. I kept voting BH because there was no reason to switch. I'm fine with your explanation on Blazinghand. It seems to me that bunnies has been fairly conversational and not very analytical (sort of the reverse of what you are describing) - can you flesh that out a little bit? | ||
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@Blazinghand: Can you share your read on WaveofShadow? I'm interested in this because he seemed more persuaded by the pregame-ingame inconsistency with your cell ordering. | ||
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On August 31 2014 04:58 ritoky wrote: blazeit420mlgnoscopehand, i don't really find anything particularly damning per se about you. however, i have a couple concerns: and this is also in regards to what you said about bunnies vote earlier. when there was a wagon on you, a great many people had still not voted in the thread, and were holding their votes waiting. then suddenly a counterpush comes onto bats, and a whole lot of people throw their votes down in the opposite direction. yet the reasoning behind the counterpush doesn't seem strong enough to garner all these votes in my eyes. so my concern is that a couple mafia were waiting to see if they had to nail you in your coffin or if something could happen to shove it the other way. this is exactly what happened to meapak last cell game and surprisingly enough it was led by holyflare who seems to be a prime contributor to this one. can you please ease these concerns of mine? This was something I was thinking about earlier, but I felt like more people would have jumped onto Blazinghand following the me pointing out the inconsistency pre-game and in-game if that was the case. | ||
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I know NRHF but don't know your mom, so was curious if that played into your reads | ||
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It's possible ritoky's scum but Blazinghand seems much more likely to me. (Regardless of alignment I think ritoky played pretty well this game, gj whatever you are) | ||
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@Lilwade Can you talk about professor apathy? | ||
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Before I get into the comments since yesterday I want to explain how I am thinking on bunnies- I've played two games with her, Newbie LV and Detention Mafia. Here's my general meta-thoughts on those games: Newbie LV as VT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv#14 + Show Spoiler + In day 1, bunnies points out a potential contradiction by yell0w in one of her first few posts, votes for him, and pushes on the point and discusses it with other players. She comments on other players’ votes (for instance, on Eden doing a reaction test sort of vote) while still questioning other players on yell0w. She comments on other peoples’ cases, agreeing at times, disagreeing at times. She even engages on points that she doesn’t understand asking what they are about or where they are going. Town:She is active with fairly good post quality who pressures other players D1. Detention Mafia as VT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia + Show Spoiler + In day 1, bunnies joins in pressuring jabberwockzerg for a weird sort of contradiction/comment, votes for him, and pushes on the point and discusses it with other players. She is relatively active through day 1. She isn’t focused on just one player, either - for instance, mid-day she does a reaction test and proposes me as a second wagon, To be fair, her day 2 is pretty nonactive and mostly sheeps me. Town:She is fairly active and pressures other players D1 I didn't play in Cell II, I was obs and ended up not reading the game. I skimmed the first couple pages and here are my impressions: Cell Mini Mafia II as mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/449768-cell-mini-mafia-ii + Show Spoiler + My impression is that bunnies was relatively active. Less pressure than in the two games above, and more short posts, but they were still more focused on the game. If you look at these posts (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/449768-cell-mini-mafia-ii?page=60#1188 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21434380 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/449768-cell-mini-mafia-ii?page=61#1219 ) she is engaging more actively with the people up for lynch than I think she ever did during our last vote. Mafia: She is active and analytic on other players. Batsnacks had raised the idea of a change in analytic vs conversational tone; I don’t find this persuasive. It seems to me she's been both analytical and conversational in each of the three games above, so even if she's not very analytic now it doesn't lead me anywhere. I do suspect bunnies, though, because I feel the player I was with in two games would have picked up on my point on Blazinghand earlier and used it to pressure BH. Her response was a little different, more dismissive of the slip- + Show Spoiler + On August 29 2014 10:52 27ninjabunnies wrote: SO I caught up. Nothing really interests me. The BH "slip"? might be something to look at, but is that a slip or just a change of mind? I tend to find town more slip like that than mafia in their way of thinking. Mafia are more calculated. Amiko is pretty much town for me atm as well. Like, I'm not sure if I've actually played an amiko mafia game, but I wouldn't lynch him this game. This post is mixed to me. On the one hand, I think her comment dismissing the slip is understandable. In the two games I discussed above, both players who seemed to have slipped (yell0w and jabberwockzerg) were town. But, in those games, bunnies still pressured the players on those slips and drew reads on them and the other players. I don't see that here. @Holyflare / @WaveofShadow: You played in Cell II, do you have any thoughts on the above? I haven't really read the thread since I last posted so if I change my mind on things I'll let you know, but I wanted to at least get my bunnies-thoughts written out. | ||
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going through thread I'lll get to yours in a couple minutes | ||
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On September 01 2014 00:24 27ninjabunnies wrote: 3. Amiko, if you think BH was scum, how am I scum with him when I voted him? Ninjabunnies votes twice on D2 - once on Ritoky, once on Blazinghand. When ninjabunnies voted blazinghand, the vote count became: batsnacks (6): Oatsmaster, Blazinghand, WaveofShadow, Not really holyflare, Professor Apathy, Amiko Blazinghand (5): batsnacks, marvellosity, Holyflare, your mom, 27ninjabunnies Ritoky (0): (I counted those myself so if I got it wrong let me know) If Blazinghand is mafia, which feels more likely to me than ritoky, I think this does help a case for ninjabunnies as town because the votes were close when she would have voted for a mafia ally (3 votes outstanding). Not conclusive of course, but I do think it's a fair point. | ||
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On September 01 2014 02:18 WaveofShadow wrote: At some point if anybody who either knows bunnies (or doesn't and wants to look it up) can show me some examples of usual townplay from her that'd be great. Eventually I'll do it myself if no one does. If you want to look at Order Mafia (town) or Golden Sun (town) for comparison it couldn't hurt otherwise maybe I will later | ||
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On September 01 2014 07:19 MysteryMeat1 wrote: Amiko, why do you think Prof is town, and what do you think of lilwade? I'm not all that certain on either one. Apathy is largely a feeling read. I guess if I try to identify the posts that made me feel good, I'd point to: (1) Seemed willing to coordinate or compromise on D1 for mayoral votes (2) Was questioning of bunnies D1, which was someone I felt was suspicious (3) Provided seemingly thoughtful answers to the positions he took D1 Mafia could do those things, too, but it gives him an edge to me over bunnies (who seems suspicious to me for reasons above and general feel). For lilwade I'll make another post in a few minutes I have to check his timings | ||
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On August 28 2014 14:38 lilwade wrote: Hello, just your fellow town hero nothin to see here. As for order goes I have no preference being as I have only played with 1 or 2 of you. Cant believe all the butthurt people at ritokys great posts. Empathy you are clearly the mafia in our cell. On August 28 2014 14:39 lilwade wrote: Somehow I typed empathy must be getting late I meant 27ninjabunnies On August 28 2014 14:35 lilwade wrote: ##vote: Ritoky did i seriously get 2 slips in 2 days | ||
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Voting Lilwade votes on BH once in thread, then a second time in the vote thread after I pointed out he didn't vote there. In either vote, I think it would make the split 8-5 (with Batsnacks leading and Lilwade voting for Blazinghand) + Show Spoiler + 1) Vote count if he had voted when he posted in thread- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=62#1235 batsnacks (8): Oatsmaster, Blazinghand, WaveofShadow, Not really holyflare, Professor Apathy, Amiko, batsnacks, Holyflare Blazinghand (5): marvellosity, your mom, 27ninjabunnies, damdred, lilwade 2) Vote count if he had voted when he posted in the vote thread batsnacks (8): Oatsmaster, Blazinghand, WaveofShadow, Not really holyflare, Professor Apathy, Amiko, Holyflare, your mom, Blazinghand (5): marvellosity, 27ninjabunnies, damdred, batsnacks, lilwade Doesn't tell me too much Activity In terms of his activity, yeah it's low. In Newbie LVII he was on his fourth page of filter by the start of Day 2. This game he's still on his first page. I won't really comment on LVIII since I'm hosting it. Other stuff Dude, I don't know. He seems focused on the people in his cell, which feels somewhat towny to me (in the same way focusing on a lynch does). But it's hard to say he's been actively pushing reads on them or trying to get much from it. I guess I understand ritoky's point about lilwade coming into the thread as a ballsy move, but honestly I don't see how that's substantially better than not posting at all. Honestly just not strongly convinced either way. I guess it's more that I recognize some things with bunnies that feel off, Toad feels a little town, lilwade not sure. | ||
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On September 01 2014 07:14 Holyflare wrote: i called you out when you voted ritoky and you said your vote was a lie because you wanted to be coloured green and it was actually meant to be on BH, what bs are you pulling now? Also, her d1 did discuss finding ritoky scummy even if the vote was suggested as joking | ||
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Just noting that mysterymeat voted in the thread for bunnies, but not in the voting thread- He isn't voting bunnies in the vote thread, but if you were to consider him as voting for bunnies it would confirm at least one mafia is voting on bunnies currently (HolyFlare and WaveofShadow are also voting for bunnies) I'm not really sold on lilwade or bunnies yet, but worth noting if only so mysterymeat votes int he right place. I'm probably going to do some brainless stuff (league / hearthstone / etc) tonight and take another crack at the game tomorrow. | ||
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I don't think I can tell you that, as I don't think mafia would be any more or less likely to do that than town. | ||
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This doesn't give any indication that it's voting town or mafia but was considering it since when we were talking about d2 earlier it wasn't the case (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=65#1281) | ||
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It's conditionally relevant to reading your cell - Let's say all three of you vote ninjabunnies, she is lynched, and she flips mafia. I.e., if we get confirmation that mafia bussed. This can be relevant in a few ways, such as: - This can inform reads on the three of you if we look at things like how firm your votes were (as mafia voting for a mafia ally may want to leave himself some wriggle room). - Looking at the database now, Mysterymeat hasn't played a game as mafia. But, this can inform a meta read on players as to whether they'd be likely to vote for a teammate - Consider whether mafia would vote for bunnies when (imo) lilwade is a viable lynch as well. It may not be relevant, it may be relevant, but it's something I'll probably forget about if I don't note it. | ||
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On September 01 2014 23:11 your mom wrote: vote goes easily to lilwade. > scumreads bh > tells amiko that if bh was scum hed be more inclined to think apathy is scum > votes ninja super confidently like he scumread her from the start > effectively makes his post to amiko completely pointless cause he was so sure about bunnies anyway ##Vote lilwade @your mom Do you have any reads on bunnies? | ||
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Holyflare I sorta disagree with your first point, I don't feel he's been substantially more active in one game over another. He's still on his first page of filter in both games. He has 10 posts this game (not including pregame) and 18 posts that game (not including pregame), but the length is pretty close, frankly. Quite a few posts which are just voting. I'm not saying he didn't post more that game, but it doesn't feel like such a substantial difference that it's convincing to me. I think maybe the better point is that in his first newbie he was more active, openly posted reads, and was town (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/462654-newbie-mini-mafia-lvii?user=lilwade&view=all) In his second newbie he was less active, posted few reads and not much analysis, and was scum. In this game, I think he's also been less active, posted fewer reads and not much analysis. I think the meta case for both makes them lean scum so I'm not really sure, I'll try to vote in the next hour or so since I think I will be out at deadline | ||
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##vote: lilwade | ||
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@NRHF: I get a town read on you for the most part, but here's some things I'd like to ask- + Show Spoiler + On August 29 2014 10:36 Not really holyflare wrote: Yes. Oats is like 99.9999% scum now because I think you're town. Because I trust that you may be 99.9999% town, ill sheep you for catching a mistake that bh shouldn't have done. Bat posted. Not scum. Ritoky MIGHT be scum because his town was analytical. This is bullshit ritoky. Anyway, scratch that. Ritoky is scum. ##Vote: ritoky For this post, there's a couple weird things I'd like you to explain. 1) You indicate that you will sheep me, but then vote for ritoky. wassup with that. 2) You scumread oats on the grounds that you read me as town. This implies that you also townread marv. I don't really see you townreading marv from any of your other posts, though - most suggest that you are counting on WaveofShadow or Holyflare to read Marv. So, did you townread marv at that time? When and why? | ||
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Your mom still feels the best, I'll read some more later but I don't mind putting a vote in for now. ##vote: your mom | ||
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On September 03 2014 00:36 Damdred wrote: There really is not much to go on in Your moms filter, and that sucks. NRHF looks towny in his filter his posting has dropped off tremendously over the past couple of cycles which is a worry to me. And your moms activity just sucked all the time. I don't disagree with you, but it seems to me this means we are policy lynching a lurker in a LYLO situation. As far as I can tell, I'm the only one in the game who knows who NRHF is a smurf of, is there a reason no one else seems to care at all? I mean, I don't care too much about who 'your mom' is a smurf for because he's posted so little content that it's hard to imagine I can make much of a meta read on him (even lilwade had more to work with and that meta read was wrong anyway). I dunno, maybe town is already writing the game off as a loss, I guess I kind of understand that. @Damdred: Can you give reads on the next two cells? Frankly I don't expect to get to Cell C but it'd be nice to hear you talk about marv & oats | ||
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Do you know who NRHF is ? I don't remember him revealing | ||
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I don't feel like knowing who he is has strongly affected my sense of him this game, though, and it's not like anyone has pushed on him or asked me for my read of him. Afaik he has no scum games on TL anyway. As with too many things, I can't really call it scummy that no one is inquisitive because clearly neither town nor mafia cares. | ||
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On September 03 2014 07:55 MysteryMeat1 wrote: are you actually a dumbass HF? If all people from the cell vote for bunnies, or course one mafia is voting on their partner. The fact is bunnies was probably mafia, as no one voted for apathy. Either we just got rolled or bunnies was mafia. Same thing with ritoky. You also did the same thing iirc, you voted on your partner and then used some dumb excuse to switch your vote to a town His point is that your statement assumes that bunnies is mafia; If Apathy was mafia, then mafia did not vote for their partner. Compare your phrasing - "Im just wary that we know at least one mafia is voting on their partner." to my phrasing "...obviously at least one mafia is voting or trying to vote for bunnies. This doesn't give any indication that it's voting town or mafia..." Idc though if we aren't going to have any activity then hopefully game will end today. @NRHF: Oh yeah then I was mistaken. I thought you were imaginary, but you are not (you are minus notflare). For some reason I thought he was a lover but come to think of it I guess he is not. That makes sense, though, I hadn't played with him for a while but he tended to do more frequent and shorter reads. I am pretty sure I have it now, though the scum play I saw from you is hard feels difficult to apply to another game, lol. I'll take a look though >:3 | ||
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Marv was killed as town N2 in Heavyweight III. Did you feel he was easy to read as town in that game? @NRHF: I do want Holyflare, and maybe WoS/marv to know who you are to read you so please reveal yourself by then or I'll just do it. I still think you are pretty town so it's not a huge deal but eh you should do it if only to see if it gives you any helpful responses. Also lemme know what you think of Cell B :3 | ||
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On September 03 2014 08:39 MysteryMeat1 wrote: im still lynching HF tomorrow ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Smv4Oc3.gif) Hey meat, if your mom wasn't being lynched today who would you lynch and why? | ||
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I've only been in 3-player LYLO once and won, but I picked wrong in Dr. Who (I don't actually remember if we knew it was LYLO though) and probably would have picked wrong in Detention if I'd stayed alive. Really, all town (myself included I guess) are really screwing up. For town to win it means we have to lynch right in all three remaining cells. So honestly, everyone alive should be looking at all the remaining cells now since we'll never have this many town players available to look at the game. I.e. it's almost as important that people talk about Cell B & C now as it is to talk about the current cells. Since Holyflare & WoS are supposed to be good at reading marv and at least one is town, do you have any comments on him? My view of Oats is that it feels like most of his memorable posts are tunnelling me, but in retrospect I guess he posted some on marv as well. I'll try to write something about it. | ||
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Amiko
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Since you are sheeping marv on the off chance we get to day 5 I'll be asking you to vote on marv and letting me hammer. So let's talk till you realize the error of your ways. - Did that question about me being happy early game have any significance? - What do you think of the conversations between you and marv while blazinghand was up for lynch? I didn't see an answer from marv to your question as to whether whether Blazinghand gave up as scum, but not too much else to say. - As I see it, you thought I was suspicious on D2 based on thinking that although I had decided to vote Blazinghand, I hadn't voted. I don't understand this because (1) I think it's fairly obvious I was asking questions regarding the other players before you ever raised that point and (2) I don't real see why voting early or late seems suspicious, anyway. I guess a mafia player in Cell 4/5 could vote at the last minute to get a mislynch (and then just hope to get two more before that Cell ever comes up), but I don't see anyone as having done that so otherwise it seems null to me. - If you think voting early or late is a scumtell, why is that any more valid than BH's slip pre-game and during-game? It seems to me the other 'slip' would be more reliable. - If you think voting late is a scumtell, why aren't you reading any other players who voted late as scummy? (Don't you wish Cell C was 3rd now? :D) | ||
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Amiko
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I was trying to find a haruhi gif that wouldn't make it suuuuuper super obvious but still kinda obvious | ||
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Amiko
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On September 03 2014 09:57 Holyflare wrote: ^^^^ toad case THAT ALSO RELATES TO LILWADE WTF WADE ALSO VOTES BH OVER BSNACKS so bs reason to switch. Current wagon at time: bunnies with sentiment to wade ..... current vote: bunnies Eh, I don't really agree with this one. I was looking at the votes for that vote and my thoughts were basically- Bunnies swapped to Blazinghand making the vote 6batsnacks vs. 5 blazinghand. If blazinghand is scum, this looks like a risky move for bunnies since it brings it fairly close to him getting lynched. When lilwade voted for Blazinghand it made the split 8 (Batsnacks) vs 5 (Blazinghand). Between the two the votes looked better for bunnies as town than for lilwade since her vote brought it quite a bit closer (assuming BH scum). | ||
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Amiko
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(though I feel like complaining about the day applies a little to you too bud) | ||
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Amiko
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I'm around in case you show back up, it's pretty hard to imagine that people would reconsider voting on you at this point. If you're town you should talk about your cell since it won't really matter what the other cells are if you are lynched (which let's be honest is pretty much a certainty). | ||
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Amiko
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You seemed to swap a lot more back and forth on blazinghand (voting him for mayor, then voting to lynch him and disagreeing with him, then saying he is convincing and voting with him) so that'd be a good thing to talk about as well. | ||
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Amiko
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Yeah, but asking someone to post once or twice before they get lynched really doesn't strike me as "so much credit" :D | ||
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Although the inactivity is pretty lame, it isn't always game-ruining. I mean, in a big game it's nice to have some lower-activity players since it makes the thread more manageable to read. It is pretty tough in this setup I suppose, since it seems like there's always at least one player of three that isn't really playing the game (except maybe in cell C) | ||
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Amiko
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but... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://ownershipwrites.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/lloyd-300x300.jpg) | ||
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- Can you talk about Cell C? I don't see any comments from you on it at all so that'd be helpful, I don't care too much which player you talk about in Cell C | ||
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Is it more from townreading marv or scumreading oats? | ||
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- Any particular reason why you asked WaveofShadow in particular if he was vt (the d1 trap thing)? I'm wondering why you didn't ask me or Apathy or someone else who was also on at the time since Wave didn't answer at first - Did you ever answer this one from Wave on Oats? + Show Spoiler + On August 30 2014 02:06 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not following this. You think Oats has TMI and is scum, and so is saying BH is town? @WaveofShadow - When we were voting on lilwade you were pointing to NRHF as having really poor posting on D2. + Show Spoiler + On September 02 2014 03:09 WaveofShadow wrote: Where is fake holyflare? His totality of D2 posting has been absolutely horrible, mostly basing his apparent current dump vote on bunnies on weird meta shit. Did no one else pick up on this? On September 02 2014 03:30 WaveofShadow wrote: Well now you guys have got me thinking about who is voting for whom and when, and I absolutely hate NRHF's vote and the circumstances behind it. But I also remember not minding the wagon on bunnies when it initially started and I think he was on it then too. I think the fact that bunnies came back and was giving reads/answering questions freely without being asked despite the fact that she was essentially off the hook may clinch it for me. That one is also unlike the D1/BH. ##unvote ##vote: lilwade I have another 45 min or so then it's only phoneposting if at all until usual time. There's some justification to not suspect NRHF in the second post (based on his vote timings - I'll take a look at that since I'm not sure) but is there a reason why you moved toward voting for your mom without continuing to suspect or questioning NRHF? You did call NRHF town later (when it was revealed it was HaruRH) but you seemed to back off of him before that | ||
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Amiko
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On September 04 2014 07:13 MysteryMeat1 wrote: i'd probably go for marv, i honestly think the only reason he said anything yesterday, was to back up HF in mislynching me today because he knew his partner was going to get lynched. -marv has also probably been in thread, but hasn't posted anything worth reading. I'm still pretty wary of oats, Apathy called him out for not posting and seemed pretty worried, that he wasn't talking. And I think your the towniest out of all the three people, i like your questioning of people in your cell, on people in other cells. Do you think Oats has not been in the thread, or do you feel that Oats has posted something worth reading? If the second, what did Oats post that makes that point not apply to him? | ||
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Amiko
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On September 04 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote: he posted that he was sheeping marv after he scum read him as if it was a useful comment, he's also been very sure of things like "NUUU it's a town tell" and "no bla bla is definitely mafia" while ignoring everyone else i wouldn't honestly be surprised if wave was mafia with oats though Where do you think see Oats as scumreading marv? I felt like he was still seeing me as the mafia in the cell (but less suspicious than he had earlier maybe) | ||
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Amiko
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Wave gave some comments on marv here- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=83#1657 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=84#1662 though they were more specific to heavyweight, I was kind of interested in that because Haru and Holyflare were both in that game, too Wave generally indicated he can't read oats here- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=83#1658 which I can empathize with a little because I played catastrophe and don't feel like I have a sense of how to read Oats at all from that. Why do you feel Holyflare is more likely mafia than Wave? I do give Holyflare some credit because I liked his points on bunnies (though this assumes bunnies was the mafia in the cell) | ||
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I'll be out for a little but I'll try to give you updated thoughts on Oats tonight. If C was up today I'd probably push on Oats as the lynch over marv; I don't really know Oats' meta but I feel like there's a fair case for him as scum based on his posts in this game, whereas for marv I think most of the scumfeels come from a sense of uneasiness that he hasn't been more proactive or tried to be persuasive. One thing I wanted to look at but don't have time to right now is looking at whether Oats townreading marv early makes sense (since he was willing to "sheep" marv while at the same time suggesting he was seeing me as more town). And I dunno, I feel like most people voting for your mom weren't doing it to sheep marv (or at least didn't say so in that tone) Anyway I'll take a look later and let you know but that's more or less how I'm thinking about it now | ||
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Amiko
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On September 04 2014 07:37 MysteryMeat1 wrote: Wow, reading through the thread, i counted 1 person who actually agreed with that post. That one person was Marv, who just chimed in to say, that he was with you. Way to lie HF! ^^ We're talking about this post - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=22891105 I agreed with part of his Holyflare's post on this and disagreed with part- Holyflare argues that the vote timing (bunnies / lilwade) is not a good reason to switch votes because it applies to both. I disagree with that argument - although both players switched, I feel bunnies' timing made her look more towny than lilwade's because hers brought the vote closer so I can see that as a valid reason to be persuaded. The subsequent points that you swapped to and from bunnies & lilwade (one time saying you'd vote for lilwade a minute after posting you were going to stick with bunnies? in the posts he quoted at 1:49 and 1:50) doesn't look right at all, because what would have changed your mind? | ||
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Amiko
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On September 04 2014 08:32 WaveofShadow wrote: @WaveofShadow - When we were voting on lilwade you were pointing to NRHF as having really poor posting on D2. + Show Spoiler + On September 02 2014 03:09 WaveofShadow wrote: Where is fake holyflare? His totality of D2 posting has been absolutely horrible, mostly basing his apparent current dump vote on bunnies on weird meta shit. Did no one else pick up on this? On September 02 2014 03:30 WaveofShadow wrote: Well now you guys have got me thinking about who is voting for whom and when, and I absolutely hate NRHF's vote and the circumstances behind it. But I also remember not minding the wagon on bunnies when it initially started and I think he was on it then too. I think the fact that bunnies came back and was giving reads/answering questions freely without being asked despite the fact that she was essentially off the hook may clinch it for me. That one is also unlike the D1/BH. ##unvote ##vote: lilwade I have another 45 min or so then it's only phoneposting if at all until usual time. There's some justification to not suspect NRHF in the second post (based on his vote timings - I'll take a look at that since I'm not sure) but is there a reason why you moved toward voting for your mom without continuing to suspect or questioning NRHF? You did call NRHF town later (when it was revealed it was HaruRH) but you seemed to back off of him before that I don't think I ever called NRHF town; put simply your mom was the only logical choice for the day. If your mom had put even an ounce of effort into the game then maybe there would have been something else to do, but it doesn't make sense to give a pass to anyone like that otherwise scum can continually think they can get away with it. Neither us nor scum clearly really had much choice in the matter. I noticed an interesting pattern in that regard, however---if we assume bunnies and BH were scum then it means it's possible every initial target town has picked was correct for each day. (This would mean MM1/Oats for final two but I'm not going solely based on that). Now I've said this before but my activity is limited to late evenings now that I've started work again, with maybe the odd phonepost here and there. If there's discussion to be had right now then people should stick around so I can actually talk. [/QUOTE] My mistake, I mis-remembered this post from Holyflare as something you had written. On September 03 2014 11:05 Holyflare wrote: Yeh ok haru is town then | ||
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Amiko
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On September 04 2014 09:13 Oatsmaster wrote: lynch holyflare. ##vote Holyflare HF is scum. Focuses on the change in voting by MM way too much, in advance of his cell, setting up the mislynch so he can win easier. In fact, that change makes MM town. JUSTICE WAGON!@! @Oats: Why is it scummy to focus on players in advance of their cell? For what it's worth, it seems to me that most of your posts seem to focus on me / marv... Also, why does the vote change from make MM1 make him town when Bunnies' vote change (probably) didn't make her town? (Or, do you think Apathy was the mafia in that cell?) I don't see much of anything your Oats' filter discussing MysteryMeat until that post, except maybe these posts- On September 03 2014 15:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Its a town tell. scum are fine sitting on a mislynch On September 03 2014 18:59 Oatsmaster wrote: nah its dumb for scum to do that, why would they intentionally draw attention to themselves? @mm1: Why did you ask oats in particular what he thought of the vote switching as opposed to the other players active in the thread at that time? | ||
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Amiko
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(1) This fits with my perception that he’s been buddying up to marv to set me as a mislynch I’ve already mentioned this a couple of times, so I won’t repost things on this unless you guys want further explanation. In sum, I feel like Oats misread/mischaracterized some of my posts to attack me until some players began to town-read me. (2) Sheeping marv D4 does not seem consistent with his posts that imply (though do not state outright) that he is townreading me more or suspecting marv more It makes sense to me that Oats would sheep marv on D3 even if he is town – Oats’ posts indicate he was scumreading me, and I was on the wrong side of the Blazinghand lynch whereas marv was probably on the right one. So, I can understand sheeping marv on D3. What’s weird though, is that he indicates he is sheeping Marv on D4 for the your mom lynch. These are two of Oats’ posts in order. (Time passes between them but he doesn’t post between them) + Show Spoiler + On September 02 2014 16:40 Oatsmaster wrote: marv 1/2 so far ##vote: your mom On September 03 2014 14:32 Oatsmaster wrote: er lets do this one line at a time. No, and I dont know why marv asked me to explain it. Possible filler. marv had a whole lotta meta reasons why blazinghand was scum but never wrote it out fully intending to convince people, just sat back and sniped at whoever called bh town. Its not about voting late as in 1 min before the deadline. Its about not making a clear stand so its not so suspicious when your team decides on a change in direction. Town dont give a shit about their own voting patterns so they vote willynilly. Scum more careful with their votes. GENERALLY. After that bit and the last few days, your questions have gotten a lot better and there is more direction rather than questions for the sake of questions. The first post is basically just Oats saying he is sheeping marv and voting for your mom. The second post is in response to me. To be fair, I don’t think Oats is directly saying that he is scumreading marv in this post (which is how marv seemed to take it) but it sort of imply that because he seems to either think cell C is not as easy, comments that my questions are better, etc. So if Oats is suspecting marv more d3 (even if it’s only because he is suspecting me less), why is it that he says he is sheeping marv on d3? (3) Also, "sheeping" marv seems like a weird reason to vote for your mom This point isn’t as compelling to me but it does kinda make me frown. I just think I wouldn’t think that you’d vote for your mom as a sheep read since there wasn’t really a case or strong push to vote him over other players. I kinda agree with what Wave said here, though not as strongly: On September 04 2014 08:32 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't think I ever called NRHF town; put simply your mom was the only logical choice for the day. If your mom had put even an ounce of effort into the game then maybe there would have been something else to do, but it doesn't make sense to give a pass to anyone like that otherwise scum can continually think they can get away with it. Neither us nor scum clearly really had much choice in the matter. I felt there were some reasons to vote your mom (NRHF felt more towny, for example) but I sort of felt like his lynch was mostly required. I guess I just wouldn’t think of it as “sheeping” someone who didn’t really make a case or strongly push for a lynch on someone (though marv did seem quite certain he wanted your mom lynched). Maybe that’s just a phrasing thing though. I don't think the lynch on your mom was inevitable, but I tend to agree that we really didn't have a good chance of finding mafia in the cell if he due to his low content. Imagine your mom had said in thread he was mafia. If everyone was voting for him, I wouldn't write "sheeping marv" as a reason to vote for him, because the reason is that he claimed scum. Anyway it's obviously not that pronounced, but I'm trying to convey why it feels weird. The above two reasons are better anyway I think. | ||
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On September 05 2014 07:35 WaveofShadow wrote: Hell even amiko promised a read on me and didn't. It's really weird. I don't remember doing this, could you point it out? I'm interested in who asked me to read you when | ||
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On September 02 2014 01:49 MysteryMeat1 wrote: Going to work and i probably wont be able to check my phone. Gonna stick to my gut read on bunnies T.T On September 02 2014 01:50 MysteryMeat1 wrote: Ah screw it lilwade it is It just doesn’t seem natural to me that you would switch over the course of a minute. Btw although currently I feel you more likely mafia than Holyflare, I really feel your play is much better in this game than in prior games from you I read (not just counterclaiming or not, your posting style as well) so wanted to mention that. | ||
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I feel like today's vote is between Holyflare and MM1. Although I think there's some merit to the argument that Wave hasn't pushed too hard for a lynch, it's hard for me to say that anyone has pushed super hard on any other player this game (with the exception of Holyflare on MM1, I suppose). I liked Wave's D2 because I felt Wave's votes to and from batsnacks were pretty reasonable. Wave townreads batsnacks early, and even calls a post by Oats voting for batsnacks as awful http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=34#673 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=34#674 He laters vote for batsnacks, but he clearly presents it as looking for information / pressure to get more- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=54#1080 It's difficult to say he is actually scumreading batsnacks when he first votes for him. And, this seems consistent because he later returns to voting for BH. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=59#1179 I feel that here, it would have been difficult for Wave to have a good justification to vote for batsnacks. Except that then batsnacks votes himself and Wave joins. Frankly, I just feel like this is justifiable... certainly mafia can vote on someone who is voting on himself, but Wave still seems to want to keep pressure on batsnacks http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=61#1213 The other thing with wave is that when asked for reads or thoughts on certain situations, he gives fleshed out explanations of things in a way I agree with. The most recent and pronounced of these is probably his comments on your mom, but I also feel like some of his comments on marv and oats resonate with me. Some feel like they could be buddying up, but I tend to think that's a little less likely because my vote on him doesn't seem like it'd be all that important. Anyway, I don't have much more to write about Wave, really - I think for me I'm solidly between HF and MM1 leaning MM1. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Can you not call him shitflare? Like, politeness aside (though that's a consideration) it's harder to search your filter for references to him if you call him that, and it's already tough to look for people's comments on you when people call you "mm" On September 05 2014 14:47 MysteryMeat1 wrote: how many mafia has HF led lynches on? I don't see this as relevant... the only mafia lynch was your mom and I feel like it was (sort of) the obvious choice and more the result of inactivity than anyone pushing or leading a lynch. On September 01 2014 05:20 MysteryMeat1 wrote: I think i'd probably go for bunnies as the mafia in this situation. I think professor apathy is town for voting on lil wade, and i'm not sure on how to read lilwade, but from the games that i've played with bunnies her play as town has definitely been different. If bunnies does flip mafia, then the chance that ritoky was scum over BH increases in my mind. I did sheep ritoky's reads because everyone was claiming that he was town, but rereading the thread i don't really see where all of that was coming from. ##Vote: 27NinjaBunnies Why did you see Apathy as town for voting on lilwade when you were thought bunnies was the scum in the cell? | ||
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I'm not caught up yet but if it's 2-2 I want majority | ||
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I get these reasons for you suspecting holyflare: 1) Focuses too much on MM1 (to set up a mislynch) 2) You think MM1 is town (unclear if this is a reason but I think it's the case) 3) You say MM1 is trying hard and Holyflare is laughing away Are there more? I'll talk about them in a minute | ||
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Amiko
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On September 05 2014 01:31 Amiko wrote: @Oats: Why is it scummy to focus on players in advance of their cell? For what it's worth, it seems to me that most of your posts seem to focus on me / marv... 3) You say MM1 is trying hard and Holyflare is laughing away It seems like holyflare is trying pretty hard to me - I feel like he went sorta went ham on MM1, has more posts throughout the game, longer filter, etc. | ||
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Amiko
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I know he hasn't voted yet, but I'm wondering why you voted today on your own instead of sheeping marv today? | ||
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On September 06 2014 03:27 MysteryMeat1 wrote: Welk thats game, Just going to go on record Bh, bunnies, hf, marv as mafia. Ill apologize to town for not following my earlier scum reads @Amiko, and wos why are you voting for me? I'll try to break it down as much as possible- I put a post earlier talking about why I feel WoS is probably town, so I'll try to just comment on him briefly here and then focus on you and Holyflare. I think WoS is probably town as outlined here - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=96#1915. Of these points, I think his vote movement and posts D2 are probably what convinced me more than his responses. Honestly, I think there's probably an argument that WoS's vote posts are scummy. He's often indicating a willingness to move between Blazinghand and Batsnacks - it's clear that his vote is up in the air. But, his responses at each post tend to ring true to me... I guess I just wouldn't expect him to have a strong firm at those points in the game, so it doesn't trouble me that he didn't. Anyway, I started writing on WoS to make a comparison. Comparing your posts (MM1) to WoS, I feel like some posts seem unnatural and unlike what a player would usually do, or reflect that your reads aren't what they say they are. The one-minute difference in where you were voting is an example of this (Oats' comment that he was sheeping marv is another example, I think, though it doesn't bear on you.) Another example would be this post- On September 02 2014 16:12 MysteryMeat1 wrote: im liking this day so far http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=22888549 Like, at this point there's maybe one and a half posts with content in them for the day... what is there to like? To be clear, I'm not saying that you are scum because you said you liked the day. I can't even tell if you are serious or joking in that post. It just seems off. Let's compare you to WoS in another way. When Holyflare does a trap sort of thing for WoS, WaveofShadow sees this as something that is (probably) town from Holyflare. He notes that it's possible Holyflare is meta-ing him, or using a trap because he knows Wave will read him as town, etc., but WoS brings up something most players would probably read HF as town for on a day when he and HF are up for lynch. Further, WoS gives him a mostly town read for trying to scumhunt him. Compare this to your reaction to Holyflare trying to bury you for the "slip" post regarding bunnies as a partner. Your overall response is that HF is lying, misrepresenting, throwing scum on you, etc. This is a little more nuanced (I could try to talk about my reaction to Oats earlier in the game to flesh this out, for example), but overall the point I'm getting at is that you don't seem to believe that Holyflare could be misguided town, you feel that he is mafia who knows he is lying and misrepresenting you. I'll try to write more but I'm in and out of meetings today and since deadline is approaching it's good to get a few ideas out | ||
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Amiko
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-- I don't blame you for not seeing HF as misguided town now since he's basically gone for the throat on you since yesterday. I guess it just struck me as weird that you didn't consider seem to consider it earlier? It seems to me that both WaveofShadow and Holyflare seemed to feel you were scummy from D1 (after the interaction involving the trap) so clearly at least one town was suspecting you - why HF and not WoS at that point (before HF attacked you as much as he has now)? | ||
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Amiko
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My understanding of this is that you are saying you think Toad is town because if he was mafia, he would make a case on bunnies. Wave questions what you mean, and Holyflare says it may be because as mafia, you would know bunnies is mafia and feel like Toad could make a case on her. Your point is that: If Holyflare believes the explanation he is providing (you and bunnies are mafia), and we have reason to believe he does (because he believes you are mafia), then he should have voted for bunnies. Is that a good summation? | ||
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seeing soon | ||
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Yeah I thought your comment on me was kinda weird since I felt I deserved a stronger townread, but I feel like every time I try to use a program to consolidate my reads I usually forget to keep them updated so I didn't read too much into the image If we made it to Cell 5 I was thinking about voting for marv in the beginning of the day just to see what happened, but I feel pretty confident I would have voted to lynch oats. I'm glad the game felt close (even if maybe it wasn't close); my expectation pretty early on was that town would lose 3-0 :3 | ||
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MysteryMeat although we mislynched you I really do feel that your play had substantially improved since the last time I read you, for a while I was wondering if your scumteam was giving you tips or if maybe they were forcing you to make more of an effort. We lost but I think you did well and just wanted to throw a compliment your way for that btw I was speculating that maybe your mom was layabout (since both used the word "arse" and I thought layabout was maybe low activity) but it was just a guess. | ||
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/unfollow | ||
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My plan to just stop playing was perfect, too | ||
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