EPTNormal Mini Mafia LVI - Page 7
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 23 2014 04:41 Snickers wrote: Would do you guys mean? Like what YKZ did for 27nb? I figured people could just have his filter open. Also forgot to mention that early when I said i think someone was scummy even though i said they were town, I looked into him and his votes seem very town so. Also If you look at VE's votes they look scummy to me, especially the timings. What you posted is a filter summary with commentary, not a case. What specifically makes him scum? If you can't explain in 4 lines or less why someone is scum, your case is bad. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 23 2014 05:03 Snickers wrote: .... I specifically said what makes him scum. 4 lines? Lol I would say that is a weak case when we are 45 pages into the game. If you really want four lines here it is. Ve has multiple times taken credit for things he has not done and has not pushed the thread forward with his own original posts. Also his interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town. If you think wordiness is what makes a case strong or weak you have a lot to learn about this game. Syllogism himself mentioned somehing similar and he's considered possibly the best town player of TL. The idea is that you have to have a very concrete reason for why someone is scum, the rest is just supporting evidence and not quite as important. It's those four lines that you push your case on and elaborate when you have the attention of others. You've mentioned three things: -Taking credit for things he hasn't done -Hasn't pushed the thread forward with his own original posts -His interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town. I can now assess whether I agree with that read by going through his filter myself, and I can consider if I think those things make VE scum. I'll do that later. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 23 2014 05:36 Snickers wrote: Never said wordiness is what makes a case strong. Was saying that evidence makes a case strong. Also you are assuming town are good in this game. I am thinking town is bad this game. Why is that? The terrible mislynch on 27nb day one. I already explained why this is so. My read on you before my "case" post w/e you want to call it was bad town. Thank you for reassuring my point. Also my read through everyone's filter showed a lot of bad towns. Also i went through his filter and also check multiple times where it was relative to the thread. So i think going through someone's filter is good if you are trying to get an idea but make sure you see where it is relative to the thread. I did this for you but do it yourself if you are self reliant, skeptical or whatever it may be. Also I will not have much time from now til lynch to contribute new things but i will try to contribute to what is being said. Anyway the lynch time for tomorrow is now 9:30 Eastern time USA. So i will be active around 30 minutes before. I have class from 6 to 7:45 for a test then an hour commute home. That you said that 4 lines can't be a good case attests to the fact that you're looking for the wrong things in cases. I also don't think you're in a position to call anyone bad in this game, least of all me. Your case is not a case, but a description of VE's filter that is far too tiresome and presumptuous to be of any use. Perhaps VE is scum. Perhaps he's not. Your case doesn't help me and I doubt it'll help anyone. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
The only points against BH are how he's gone about Day 1 with tunneling Bunnies and then being antagonizing for a bit throughout the night. On Day 2, after his tunnel target died he went into the day fairly open in terms of who he wanted to lynch and re-evaluated a lot. The fact that he pushed mderg as strongly as he did is a point in his favour too. When there are some people (like myself and you) defending a scumread, there's no reason to throw him under the bus. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 22 2014 23:26 Lazermonkey wrote: I hereby declare that I am no longer busy! I will first and foremost try to reread D2 and update all my reads. My reads didn't really evolve much during the day, sadly. Because I was so stubborn and lacked time I kinda kept my reads exactly the same as they were N1. I explained during N1 that I was slightly suspicious of YKZ and that I was uncertain on mdergs alignment at the time but I was leaning town on him. This is obviously a very satisfying answer but thats why I voted mderg over YKZ. Did you read the entire thread before you made that vote or were you strapped for time? And why did you talk about "between snickers and VE" when the vote was never between those two? On June 23 2014 15:30 YouKnowZhou wrote: Here are my thoughts. VE has deffo lied about his willingness to lynch mderg, and his reasons for doing so. The fact that he has taken credit for things is supremely annoying given how unhelpful he has been this game, but is not on its own imo indicative of scum. I agree that he has not driven / led the game like he has the potential to as a town player. He has carefully opted out of interactions with a player like me with well-timed "afks" and "anger" and thus has not stepped into a position of leadership as much as you would expect of him. The fake anger was also broken off as soon as it was clear it was no longer useful to him and making him look bad. The extra helpfulness is not in and of itself a towntell imo since he's not using that co-operation with me to really do anything. Where is he ever asking for my input on anything? In a universe where VE was town, even if he thinks I'm scum he'd try to keep me talking about what he wanted to talk about (as many people do; everyone asks me questions) and try to learn more about my motivations. Lastly, it's obvious VE didn't actually want to vote mderg. His reasons about "who's on what wagon" obviously broke down, then he post-hoc rationalized that "sloosh was his rock" which is not the explanation he gave before. Have you read VE in recent games? He really doesn't step up to this leadership position you expect of him anymore. He plays a lot more passive than he has in the past. I think the reason he wanted to lynch you over mderg is definitely fishy, but I can imagine a town VE just being sick of you. You did play a very antagonistic game earlier on. That said, I can also easily see the scum motivation and it's definitely a real option. The amount of people that want to lynch VE gives me pause. Need to re-eval but brain is not working. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 24 2014 03:10 Lazermonkey wrote: Then the questions is: who are you willing to lynch instead? Have you looked into SlOosh/Koshi? I really don't know right now. My reads tend to be shaped throughout all the interactions in the game but it feels like everyone's suspecting everyone right now which really messes up my compass of where to look. There's so much fluff and non-alignment related things filling up conversation that it's hard to motivate myself to read through it critically. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 24 2014 03:28 Lazermonkey wrote: Reading through everything is unnecessary though. But I think both SlOosh and Koshi are realistic lynches, a decent amount of people have expressed that they are suspcious in some way, shape or form of these two. Not everything, but I need to go through some filters. The problem is that the cases people make are filled with things that aren't alignment indicative which makes them a real pain to sift through. I agree that both of them are realistic lynches. The problem is that there are many realistic lynches today: BH, VE, Koshi, SlOosh and Lazer all seem to be realistic candidates, and my reads are constantly shifting with every post. I like the questions that you're asking though, they're helping me in any case. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 18 2014 05:38 mderg wrote: My logic was different. I never said that they cannot both be scum. I also didn´t point out several things out that were alignment unindicative, it was one point made by YKZ that I don´t think is actually scummy. The things I didn´t like about her were the focus on the "scumslip" by YKZ, the thing about Release and townreading Artanis. Clearly more things that I think are scummy than things not alignment indicative. The thing(s) I pointed out that weren´t alignment indicative were points brought up by YKZ which I didn´t really agree with. That´s the reason for bringing it up. I think you´re "defending" me for the wrong reasons. This makes me lean town on Lazer. This really looks like something scum would never say to scum. From mderg's filter I can't really see VE as scum being a thing either. When scum makes a case on scum, it's generally to shit up the thread or if they think scum will fall anyway. No chaos was caused by the case, VE didn't really try to claim any cred from it and it just faded away. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 24 2014 03:25 Koshi wrote: VE any chance you can give us more about your reads on the players in this gmae? The only thing you said in your last 3 post is thqt you are town. scum shows;activity, tozn gives reads; This post is really bad. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
The tone of your post makes no sense. Your question is phrased in a level-headed way, then you proceed to trash his reads. It looks incredibly forced to me. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 24 2014 05:18 Koshi wrote: What are you even talking about? I ask for his reads because his latest posts were just saying he was town and nothing else. Then I add that town who is up for lynch always give their reads, while scum up for lynch just make posts and show activity. Which was a little joke while most of the time it is a pretty good heuristic. I'm not talking about the content, I'm talking about the tone you're using. "Any chance?" is a very submissive phrasing, whereas the latter half is very distinctly different. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
Talks about why VE is scum. Stops and goes over to Lazer and talks about how he wants to lynch Lazer, then ends his post with why VE is town based on unflipped associations presuming that Lazer is scum. He hasn't done anything this game other than voting for the right person in mderg. Case on Lazer boils down to "I'm not scum and he pushed me over his other suspects who I also think are town." Is there any reason not to lynch him? ##Vote Koshi | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 24 2014 05:47 Koshi wrote: Come on... it transitioned into that because I read Lazer his filter. Also, I gave clear scum motivation for what Lazer did. How do you explain that Lazer was always up to date with the thread but didn't comment on mderg/BH? Yeah, and you consider VE town because of your scumread on Lazer even though outside of thinking Lazer is scum, you actually think VE is scummy too. If you think both players are scum there's no reason for you to only consider the option in which Lazer is scum, unless you're incredibly certain of it, which your case really doesn't provide enough information for. Reading through the thread and responding to things that don't require a lot of thought is easier than thinking about cases made and since he indicated he didn't have much time, I don't find it too hard to imagine that he figured there was too much stuff about BH/mderg to process at the time, but since the information about you was limited it was easy to comment on it. | ||
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