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On February 24 2015 02:43 rsoultin wrote:^^ lol, yeeeeaaah I know that I didn't play that game to win it, Xata, and the attack on France was highly irregular. I just have a good feel for who to trust and who not to trust. To be fair, although I was vulnerable to Austria pretty much the entire game, lack of my interference in Turkey strengthened him, so at that time it benefitted him to leave me be. Keeping France locked up in the Mediterranean so he had to defend himself and couldn't devote all his resources to the fighting going on in Germany also heavily favored Austria. Essentially, I made it more valuable for him to keep me as an ally than to stab me, and my sheer number of fleets would have made it hard late game to turn on me had we decided to continue playing  There was actually a method to the madness. What do you know? Also, Hapa...dude, if you're gonna tell people different stories, then expect me to believe you, that's just amusing. Maybe Germany was worse about it than you were, but I generally don't give people who I know are bullshitting me the time of day. Also, you could do without the condescension some
Yeah, it was pretty hard to believe Hapa's suggestions when he made different ones to every one of us (me/Austria/Italy/Germany).
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lol -flicks jie-
I like you xP But I also like Slam. Stop antagonizing each other. Btw Slam, offer still stands...you and me against Jie next game And anyone else in the game can just pick sides or get eaten lol ^^
I'm fully aware I subordinated myself this game and I think that's what Slam is alluding to. I don't see Italy as being a strong country that can solo really except under very specific conditions. Just chose my side early.
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On February 24 2015 02:43 Alakaslam wrote:
Nope, I told mderg to take my centers quickly and beef up.
He didn't understand why I would offer that, and I said "enough, I will force you to, now you will have to fight Italy though"
Like if he had said, "ok. Holland will go for Other stuff, but I will convoy into Belgium and within a few turns I will be at Paris/Marsailles/using fleets for Brest and bringing them around to replace your fleets when I take spain/port", I would have submitted turns.
Submitting orders doesn't take any time, it's thinking of what to do and trying to read possibilities that takes time.
@hapa, Rsoultin is not M2K, she is more like Mango. If I had always done exactly what was Ideal, we would have perpetually stalemated except the fail order. That was so embarrassingly bad I tried to act like it was intentional to "let rsoul through to England" via spain- something that could never have worked.
OK... I thought "Janissary" meant more along the lines of being a puppet. Well, I guess offering your own centers is a more extreme form of puppetry?
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On February 24 2015 02:57 JieXian wrote:they (m2k and mango) are professional gamers who are/were the best in their game. Well slam you do realise that while you're accusing me of manipulating Italy, she made it to the 3 way draw without a having a single base taken by me? What she said was true, she did make herself indispensable after you declared your anti Austrian sentiments publicly. As for the earlier part of the game, I didn't want to stab her after seeing the most Austrian trusting opening I can think of. Most of all, while you claim unfair treatment toward Italy, you do notice that Italy herself is satisfied with the outcome and is in no way complaining right? This is like accusing me of robbing the Bank of Rsoul when Bank of Rsoul has not reported any robbery, the bank owner is happy about the profits of the financial year and I don't have any sacks or stolen gold, cash or bases in my house or bank account. Moreover, to complete this analogy I actually played a part the profitable financial year of the Bank of Rsoul. 
It was stagnant and I quit.
If I had the same time & drive, it would have gotten to the point where you would have had to stab or accept 5 way and you (should?) know this and STILL posture.
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You guys ARE simple!
You don't read, if Italy had even one more center- ONE - she could have built another fleet and taken me out entirely.
But you did not offer this to her, why not?
Because ultimately, you wanted her where she was and wanted stalemate.
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Xat I really don't see how you can call me the antagonist in our relationship when you leaked my anti-English plans to England before the first turn was even over. I fucked up by not working hard enough in my press with France and Austria, but I disagree pretty strongly that I made a mistake with my handling of you and England. I trusted you and got burned, shit happens. I committed to working with England after that because I think direct press leak like that has to be punished on policy.
I will admit that as Germany I do tend to play a more aggressive game. The problem Germany has is that it normally comes out of any 2- or 3-way alliance as the weak party. Everyone has an interest in its centers in the midgame. Short of just being the better player (something I never count on), you just don't win by playing fairly. My plan was actually to attack England and France simultaneously with Russia and Italy - I can pretty reliably do this with proper time investment, and it leaves me in the best position when it works, because Italy doesn't usually have a strategic interest in expanding beyond the Mediterranean, meaning that Germany gets a safe corner (which it sorely lacks) and can afford to throw its full forces at Russia next. When it works (and it does often enough, given sufficient time investment) it's great. When it doesn't you tend to fail quickly. The trick is in trying to be everyone's top ally through press - the mafia analogy is being top town and making everyone lynch everyone else.
Tldr
I fucked up with France and Austria due to time investment + a lil laziness, fucked up with England by erroneously trusting Russia. Don't really feel I fucked up with Russia beyond trusting him s01. Germany is hard 
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On February 24 2015 03:40 Alakaslam wrote:
You guys ARE simple!
You don't read, if Italy had even one more center- ONE - she could have built another fleet and taken me out entirely.
But you did not offer this to her, why not?
Because ultimately, you wanted her where she was and wanted stalemate.
I do understand what you're saying, Slam, but considering how the game ended the point is kind of moot, isn't it?
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On February 24 2015 03:50 Eden1892 wrote:Xat I really don't see how you can call me the antagonist in our relationship when you leaked my anti-English plans to England before the first turn was even over. I fucked up by not working hard enough in my press with France and Austria, but I disagree pretty strongly that I made a mistake with my handling of you and England. I trusted you and got burned, shit happens. I committed to working with England after that because I think direct press leak like that has to be punished on policy. I will admit that as Germany I do tend to play a more aggressive game. The problem Germany has is that it normally comes out of any 2- or 3-way alliance as the weak party. Everyone has an interest in its centers in the midgame. Short of just being the better player (something I never count on), you just don't win by playing fairly. My plan was actually to attack England and France simultaneously with Russia and Italy - I can pretty reliably do this with proper time investment, and it leaves me in the best position when it works, because Italy doesn't usually have a strategic interest in expanding beyond the Mediterranean, meaning that Germany gets a safe corner (which it sorely lacks) and can afford to throw its full forces at Russia next. When it works (and it does often enough, given sufficient time investment) it's great. When it doesn't you tend to fail quickly. The trick is in trying to be everyone's top ally through press - the mafia analogy is being top town and making everyone lynch everyone else. Tldr I fucked up with France and Austria due to time investment + a lil laziness, fucked up with England by erroneously trusting Russia. Don't really feel I fucked up with Russia beyond trusting him s01. Germany is hard
Oh, so that leak actually mattered? I thought it was a justification for sure... Considering how you had schemed so much yourself with England against me and with me against England... I was pretty sure it was part of your plan all along to bounce Sweden and try to play me and England against each other regardless. Maybe you were genuine towards me then, but it's hard to tell when you might as well have been allied with England so I went ahead and leaked that part of the message to see England's reaction. In hindsight, his reaction might have meant that you hadn't even talked as much with him as you did with me. Well, that's that.
It would have been almost impossible for us to be long-term allies regardless, considering the Austria/Russia alliance and the natural difficulties for Germany and Russia to ally.
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On February 24 2015 03:40 Alakaslam wrote:
You guys ARE simple!
You don't read, if Italy had even one more center- ONE - she could have built another fleet and taken me out entirely.
But you did not offer this to her, why not?
Because ultimately, you wanted her where she was and wanted stalemate.
It's true that it wouldn't have been good for Austria if Italy destroyed you too quickly. But it hardly matters now that she was included in the draw anyway.
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Well, ultimately no.
But, I hate patronization used as if I wouldn't know better, and will continue that fight until it is ceded. And if we want to get smarmy with bank analogies, I can bring Enron into this.
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Balwkekgjlakwejfaf.
I played like such an idiot this game.
Also, Hapa...dude, if you're gonna tell people different stories, then expect me to believe you, that's just amusing. Maybe Germany was worse about it than you were, but I generally don't give people who I know are bullshitting me the time of day. Also, you could do without the condescension some
...and this was pretty much it. As someone who plays primarily live-games, the communication options feel so open in an online game. The fact that I can go on Skype and theoretically talk to someone without anyone else finding out is such a "luxury." Whereas I couldn't go and grab someone to "talk outside" without the entire world instantly finding out.
So yeah, I did a lot of reaching this game. When you have those new options, you naturally want to use them as much as you can. I deviated so much from my normal style of play this game, and I could barely keep track of what I was saying to different people. My communications were largely a mess, and I was fortunate to have the position that I had (pretty much a guaranteed stalemate line between myself and France) before I ultimately had to depart.
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On February 24 2015 04:18 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 03:40 Alakaslam wrote:
You guys ARE simple!
You don't read, if Italy had even one more center- ONE - she could have built another fleet and taken me out entirely.
But you did not offer this to her, why not?
Because ultimately, you wanted her where she was and wanted stalemate. It's true that it wouldn't have been good for Austria if Italy destroyed you too quickly. But it hardly matters now that she was included in the draw anyway.
Given our discussions I wouldn't mind Italy growing strong in this game. I planned to control the mainland and eventually go into France on land. It's just that it was a lot harder to get the German bases and then France than I had expected and I didn't think of making a fleet until quite late in the game.
On February 24 2015 03:40 Alakaslam wrote:
You guys ARE simple!
You don't read, if Italy had even one more center- ONE - she could have built another fleet and taken me out entirely.
But you did not offer this to her, why not?
Because ultimately, you wanted her where she was and wanted stalemate.
Because I could've built my own fleet and sent it west and support her into France without giving away bases, which I eventually did in the end.
There is no rational reason for wanting stalemate for Italy when it is obvious that she is my ally and your are my enemy.
I might have made a mistake in making too many armies and could've done better by making more fleets. Yes that is true. But I had reasons to not make many fleets: to control Germany and not make Italy or Russia feel insecure about a backstab.
In the end the problem, if there is one, is between me and rsoul and there's really no reason for you to get mad - refer to my analogy of the bank robber.
And to answer your question: No, I don't think you are simple. For example, Xata is simpler than you because I know he wants more bases and doesn't want to lose bases.
You however are an enigma :D
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On February 24 2015 04:46 JieXian wrote:
And to answer your question: No, I don't think you are simple. For example, Xata is simpler than you because I know he wants more bases and doesn't want to lose bases.
You however are an enigma :D
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On February 24 2015 03:50 Eden1892 wrote:Xat I really don't see how you can call me the antagonist in our relationship when you leaked my anti-English plans to England before the first turn was even over. I fucked up by not working hard enough in my press with France and Austria, but I disagree pretty strongly that I made a mistake with my handling of you and England. I trusted you and got burned, shit happens. I committed to working with England after that because I think direct press leak like that has to be punished on policy. I will admit that as Germany I do tend to play a more aggressive game. The problem Germany has is that it normally comes out of any 2- or 3-way alliance as the weak party. Everyone has an interest in its centers in the midgame. Short of just being the better player (something I never count on), you just don't win by playing fairly. My plan was actually to attack England and France simultaneously with Russia and Italy - I can pretty reliably do this with proper time investment, and it leaves me in the best position when it works, because Italy doesn't usually have a strategic interest in expanding beyond the Mediterranean, meaning that Germany gets a safe corner (which it sorely lacks) and can afford to throw its full forces at Russia next. When it works (and it does often enough, given sufficient time investment) it's great. When it doesn't you tend to fail quickly. The trick is in trying to be everyone's top ally through press - the mafia analogy is being top town and making everyone lynch everyone else. Tldr I fucked up with France and Austria due to time investment + a lil laziness, fucked up with England by erroneously trusting Russia. Don't really feel I fucked up with Russia beyond trusting him s01. Germany is hard
Out of curiosity, was the anti-English stuff something you decided on pre-game, or something that was triggered by my messaging?
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On February 24 2015 04:42 Hapahauli wrote:Balwkekgjlakwejfaf. I played like such an idiot this game. Show nested quote +Also, Hapa...dude, if you're gonna tell people different stories, then expect me to believe you, that's just amusing. Maybe Germany was worse about it than you were, but I generally don't give people who I know are bullshitting me the time of day. Also, you could do without the condescension some ...and this was pretty much it. As someone who plays primarily live-games, the communication options feel so open in an online game. The fact that I can go on Skype and theoretically talk to someone without anyone else finding out is such a "luxury." Whereas I couldn't go and grab someone to "talk outside" without the entire world instantly finding out. So yeah, I did a lot of reaching this game. When you have those new options, you naturally want to use them as much as you can. I deviated so much from my normal style of play this game, and I could barely keep track of what I was saying to different people. My communications were largely a mess, and I was fortunate to have the position that I had (pretty much a guaranteed stalemate line between myself and France) before I ultimately had to depart.
Yeah, lol, there is no such thing as a secret. I was in close communication (or closeish) with Austria and France throughout the game...Germany fell off later, I got Turkey to talk to me a little, and I more or less left Russia alone because he was more interested in talking to Austria and insisting I shouldn't mess with their plans xP btw Xata lol you're lucky there cause I'm a really ornery person when people start the game insisting I should play it a certain way.
What I mean to say there is several times you hear things that England is saying that aren't matching up with what England is telling you. That's an immediate red flag to me not to trust you as far as I can spit. And Austria got a lot of our convos C/Pd to him which we then laughed over. Just cause it's online doesn't mean word doesn't get around ^^
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(Slam, to be fair, I think I was actually offered a fleet to help me take over France earlier that I turned down >> My push against you was very half-hearted. I was pretty content with just tying you up in the Mediterranean. Hope that doesn't cause any hard feelings :/ )
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On February 24 2015 03:34 rsoultin wrote:lol -flicks jie- I like you xP But I also like Slam. Stop antagonizing each other. Btw Slam, offer still stands...you and me against Jie next game And anyone else in the game can just pick sides or get eaten lol ^^ I'm fully aware I subordinated myself this game and I think that's what Slam is alluding to. I don't see Italy as being a strong country that can solo really except under very specific conditions. Just chose my side early.
Maybe I should sit out the next game and avoid needing to surrender in record time :D
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On February 24 2015 03:50 Eden1892 wrote:Tldr I fucked up with France and Austria due to time investment + a lil laziness, fucked up with England by erroneously trusting Russia. Don't really feel I fucked up with Russia beyond trusting him s01. Germany is hard
I agree. Trusting xata is always a way to fuck up
perrrrkele
+ Show Spoiler +http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkele
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On February 24 2015 05:02 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 04:42 Hapahauli wrote:Balwkekgjlakwejfaf. I played like such an idiot this game. Also, Hapa...dude, if you're gonna tell people different stories, then expect me to believe you, that's just amusing. Maybe Germany was worse about it than you were, but I generally don't give people who I know are bullshitting me the time of day. Also, you could do without the condescension some ...and this was pretty much it. As someone who plays primarily live-games, the communication options feel so open in an online game. The fact that I can go on Skype and theoretically talk to someone without anyone else finding out is such a "luxury." Whereas I couldn't go and grab someone to "talk outside" without the entire world instantly finding out. So yeah, I did a lot of reaching this game. When you have those new options, you naturally want to use them as much as you can. I deviated so much from my normal style of play this game, and I could barely keep track of what I was saying to different people. My communications were largely a mess, and I was fortunate to have the position that I had (pretty much a guaranteed stalemate line between myself and France) before I ultimately had to depart. Yeah, lol, there is no such thing as a secret. I was in close communication (or closeish) with Austria and France throughout the game...Germany fell off later, I got Turkey to talk to me a little, and I more or less left Russia alone because he was more interested in talking to Austria and insisting I shouldn't mess with their plans xP btw Xata lol you're lucky there cause I'm a really ornery person when people start the game insisting I should play it a certain way. What I mean to say there is several times you hear things that England is saying that aren't matching up with what England is telling you. That's an immediate red flag to me not to trust you as far as I can spit. And Austria got a lot of our convos C/Pd to him which we then laughed over. Just cause it's online doesn't mean word doesn't get around ^^
I guess a part of the reason I didn't talk too much with you could be that I'm not too good at messaging with people who can't stand direct orders/suggestions. I heard something along those lines about you so I mostly just left it to JX
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On February 24 2015 05:09 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 03:50 Eden1892 wrote:Tldr I fucked up with France and Austria due to time investment + a lil laziness, fucked up with England by erroneously trusting Russia. Don't really feel I fucked up with Russia beyond trusting him s01. Germany is hard I agree. Trusting xata is always a way to fuck up perrrrkele + Show Spoiler +http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkele
Forgetting the fact that I've never stabbed you, but you've stabbed me in every game except this one
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EPT
