EPTTL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy - Page 27
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 23 2015 11:11 Alakaslam wrote: Go read the shout box, check out the orders, and I can explain what was said and what I said to some extent. Saltiness is kind of inappropriate here; I would say indignant. I don't appreciate communicating more than mafia to accomplish less than a shred of what is accomplished in mafia. What Eden did was really bad for Hapaderg & I, so I avoid doing that sort of thing (outing) This means I stuck with a game I knew I had no chance of advancing for the sake of another player. Against a player who was in it for (why?) with a dishonest ally who was hell bent on solo. This while I was (and am!) working on one of my companies largest accounts in my area. No. When I hint that things are pointless, and that I may need out, it's time to be straightforward. I don't play ranked games for a reason. Salty would be if I had gone down fighting and raged about untrue things, I don't think I have any illegitimate grievances here. Yeah I apologize for dropping out of the game. It had been a while since I played and I belatedly realized I didn't have anywhere near the time available to play it like I'm capable of playing. I stuck it out 'til I knew I was a goner and then figured the least interfering way to go out was the best one. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 23 2015 11:54 Alakaslam wrote: Yeah, but it's more luck based. :/ for me, but then... I tend to agree with this, and thus prefer things that aren't luck-based lol | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9673 Posts
Unfortunately it looks like each game of Diplomacy results in casualties (of play motivation)  Are there many players left willing to play another game? Personally I was considering a break or perhaps a ranked game (weirdly enough it can be more relaxing when there's less guilt about being more merciless, haha...). Maybe I could play another game though. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
It's never my intention to make other players hate playing :/ I think I just don't look at the game the same, because I was never looking at it as if I had to beat everyone else to win, which probably made it harder to understand my play. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
I'm in if there are enough people. Slam, we didn't stab each other because we were allies from the beginning. On February 23 2015 21:34 Xatalos wrote: The NMR by Germany and surrender by France (and Hapa) were unfortunate, but otherwise it was a nice game. Turkey fought well until his demise, much better than could have been expected based on his first moves, so I don't think there's much to complain about that. Unfortunately it looks like each game of Diplomacy results in casualties (of play motivation) Are there many players left willing to play another game? Personally I was considering a break or perhaps a ranked game (weirdly enough it can be more relaxing when there's less guilt about being more merciless, haha...). Maybe I could play another game though.perrrkele.. being merciless is relaxing to xata | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
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Xatalos
Finland9673 Posts
1) Turkey Unfortunately, your elimination was already assured after the first turn was over. The reasons are very clear: isolation and lack of effort. As far as I know, the only one you communicated with was me and even those communications were very lacking. Worse, they showcased that you didn't intend to put much effort into the game: "I shall go west and be your friend" "since im newb what do you think of my orders? im not even sure If there legal. cons >> bulgaria fleet >>aegean sea snyra >> greece via fleet on aegean sea" "I submitted yestererday. Didnt log in today 2 bizzy gettin lynched. Dont know how to change my orders so pointless to strategize" It's unfortunate, but there's no way anyone would entrust their future success to an ally with limited willingness to communicate and/or to think about their own moves. The only possible result here was your quick elimination. If you play another game, I'd suggest that you would learn about the basic rules of the game as well as put some effort into your communications. Those two changes alone would have made your position infinitely better in this game. 2) Germany You clearly had some experience with Diplomacy and, to be fair, you might have had more success if you didn't NMR just when Hapa was hesitating between attacking you or me. However, Hapa wouldn't probably have even considered attacking you at that point if you hadn't already driven yourself into a corner diplomatically - by antagonizing all of France, England, Russia and Austria through your communications (England), actions (Russia) or lack of trust-establishing level of communications (France, Austria). Having all of your neighbors as enemies or at least willing invaders as Germany is a pretty tough position. What I'd suggest would be appearing more trustworthy in your communications (not telling blatantly different stories to everyone) and looking more closely at the bigger picture. Looking at what was happening in the east (Turkey being crushed, Italy/France fighting) it was pretty clear that I'd be coming for you next and France would be of no help to you. That being the case, England was surely the best possible ally you could hope for. You did actually suggest an alliance to England at that point, but three different factors caused it to be useless. 1) England could no longer trust your motivations and was already preparing to attack you sooner or later 2) the fleet build was easy to see as anti-English, which certainly didn't help the already tense diplomatic situation 3) being offline for the critical turn where England had to decide between going after you or me was certainly some very bad luck. All in all, several unfortunate factors caused your swift elimination, but most of them were avoidable and you might have even survived all the way to a draw with slightly improved play. 3) France Slam, I don't think communicating with other players is really a problem for you at the moment. You certainly have the ability to communicate in such a way that people would want to ally with you on a subjective level (even Italy felt bad about attacking you and I felt bad about letting you get cornered as well). However, I think your tactical ability (army/fleet movements) and strategical ability (long-term planning of diplomacy and tactics) need quite a bit of work. In the two previous games you've made such a series of tactical blunders that for you to be considered a reliable ally, something needs to happen. A simple tip: try thinking of possible moves from your opponent's perspective and keep those in mind while making your own moves. In addition, it's good to constantly look at how the whole board develops and how you could possibly direct events in ways that would be favorable for yourself. Here are some good videos for learning: https://www.youtube.com/user/Triumvir412/videos In regards to this last game, I think you actually did somewhat decently until your surrender. You could have pretty likely stalemated Italy/Austria for a lot longer and forced the game into a 5-way draw if you didn't make any significant tactical mistakes. However, apparently you had IRL issues and couldn't bother with the game anymore. That's too bad. Up until that point I think this was your best game so far, so there's that at least. 4) England I discussed with Hapa quite a bit after he left the game and he felt frustrated with his own performance, but I don't think it was too bad. The first year certainly was bit of a mess for you, but by the time the second year started you were already recovering pretty well. Your attempts to break the alliance between me and Austria (and Italy) weren't the greatest, but I guess they were worth the try. I think it's decently likely you could have survived to a 5-way draw if you didn't have to suddenly leave the game - as long as you could have controlled Slam's actions well enough. If we're looking for areas of improvement, then I don't think there's too much to improve... But I guess the things you already said yourself could use some work. As for Mderg, unfortunately it didn't go so great. I think you failed pretty severely in your communications with Slam and possibly even partly caused his ragequit... Although it's hard to say. In any case, I think you should have put all your efforts into solidifying Slam as your ally and having as much control over his movements as possible. Instead, you refused his offer to be your puppet and unnecessarily antagonized him (or that's my impression of how it went, anyway). After that there really wasn't all that much you could have done anymore. 5) Italy Well, you're one of the winners, so it's hard to criticize your play too much. It worked, after all. Generally speaking, though, it's not a very good idea to immediately attack France. It's very difficult to gain any centers that way and you're very vulnerable to an Austrian stab. In the end, it all worked out, so there's not much more to say about it. 6) Austria I think you pretty much did everything right and had everything go well for you throughout the game. Italy attacking France, me attacking Turkey, Germany not even considering attacking you - it's hard to ask for more as Austria and you played your own part in making it all happen. You might have even been able to solo the game after Hapa left and I&Italy were somewhat vulnerable, but it would have certainly also been risky, so it's hard to blame you for sticking with our alliance and sealing the 3-way draw instead. Well played. 7) Russia I played very conservatively and mostly aimed to eliminate Hapa after his initial anti-Russia campaign. Unfortunately, Hapa left the game halfway through, but we still managed to eliminate England anyway. I think my play was decent and there weren't many big errors (although maybe objectively looking the anti-England stance was a bit too much), but I feel like I blundered a couple of times (mainly by threatening Germany after he bounced Sweden and driving him to hastily ally himself with England, and by becoming too lazy with my communications towards France and Italy as the game progressed). In the end, a 3-way draw is still a 3-way draw and Hapa's legacy got destroyed. Hurrah | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
On February 24 2015 00:17 rsoultin wrote: I actually enjoyed the game? It's never my intention to make other players hate playing :/ I think I just don't look at the game the same, because I was never looking at it as if I had to beat everyone else to win, which probably made it harder to understand my play. Was one of the first to offer a 5 way. How I see Diplo is observing change and manouver. Lose that and you've lost me. I don't mind losing straight up, I do kind of mind backstabs, I really really don't like stalemates that go unresolved. I reiterate, had jiex let you buff up I'd be much less put out. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
On February 24 2015 00:43 JieXian wrote: maybe you enjoyed the game because you made it to the 3 way? hahaha I'm in if there are enough people. Slam, we didn't stab each other because we were allies from the beginning. perrrkele.. being merciless is relaxing to xata Are you just simple or do you think I am? | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
I just have a good feel for who to trust and who not to trust. To be fair, although I was vulnerable to Austria pretty much the entire game, lack of my interference in Turkey strengthened him, so at that time it benefitted him to leave me be. Keeping France locked up in the Mediterranean so he had to defend himself and couldn't devote all his resources to the fighting going on in Germany also heavily favored Austria. Essentially, I made it more valuable for him to keep me as an ally than to stab me, and my sheer number of fleets would have made it hard late game to turn on me had we decided to continue playing  There was actually a method to the madness. What do you know? Also, Hapa...dude, if you're gonna tell people different stories, then expect me to believe you, that's just amusing. Maybe Germany was worse about it than you were, but I generally don't give people who I know are bullshitting me the time of day. Also, you could do without the condescension some | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
He didn't understand why I would offer that, and I said "enough, I will force you to, now you will have to fight Italy though" Like if he had said, "ok. Holland will go for Other stuff, but I will convoy into Belgium and within a few turns I will be at Paris/Marsailles/using fleets for Brest and bringing them around to replace your fleets when I take spain/port", I would have submitted turns. Submitting orders doesn't take any time, it's thinking of what to do and trying to read possibilities that takes time. @hapa, Rsoultin is not M2K, she is more like Mango. If I had always done exactly what was Ideal, we would have perpetually stalemated except the fail order. That was so embarrassingly bad I tried to act like it was intentional to "let rsoul through to England" via spain- something that could never have worked. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
Well slam you do realise that while you're accusing me of manipulating Italy, she made it to the 3 way draw without a having a single base taken by me? What she said was true, she did make herself indispensable after you declared your anti Austrian sentiments publicly. As for the earlier part of the game, I didn't want to stab her after seeing the most Austrian trusting opening I can think of. Most of all, while you claim unfair treatment toward Italy, you do notice that Italy herself is satisfied with the outcome and is in no way complaining right? This is like accusing me of robbing the Bank of Rsoul when Bank of Rsoul has not reported any robbery, the bank owner is happy about the profits of the financial year and I don't have any sacks or stolen gold, cash or bases in my house or bank account. Moreover, to complete this analogy I actually played a part the profitable financial year of the Bank of Rsoul.  | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9673 Posts
On February 24 2015 02:57 JieXian wrote: they (m2k and mango) are professional gamers who are/were the best in their game. Well slam you do realise that while you're accusing me of manipulating Italy, she made it to the 3 way draw without a having a single base taken by me? What she said was true, she did make herself indispensable after you declared your anti Austrian sentiments publicly. As for the earlier part of the game, I didn't want to stab her after seeing the most Austrian trusting opening I can think of. Most of all, while you claim unfair treatment toward Italy, you do notice that Italy herself is satisfied with the outcome and is in no way complaining right? This is like accusing me of robbing the Bank of Rsoul when Bank of Rsoul has not reported any robbery, the bank owner is happy about the profits of the financial year and I don't have any sacks or stolen gold, cash or bases in my house or bank account. Moreover, to complete this analogy I actually played a part the profitable financial year of the Bank of Rsoul. LOL :D | ||
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