EPTWorld Heavyweight Championship Mafia II - Page 39
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 27 2014 01:27 IAmRobik wrote: I don't feel so great about phagga (man this name is so inappropriate to say out loud) Remember that my mother tongue is (swiss) german, so the proper pronounciation is to read "phag" like "slug" and not like "fag". I don't feel all that great about you, but I'm not sure. You're definitely playing on a different level than foundations. You seem to care a bit more and if I were to meta it based off of 1 game together, I'd say that's scummy for you cause you posted a bunch of nonsensical bullshit on d1 in foundations and were very wishy washy on everything. I just want to be sure I understand this right: Palmar was wishy washy and D1 in Foundations, and you think that was more to his town meta then what he does here? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote: Mainly Palmar is not playing the game at all. He has 6 pages of filter, but he's literally not playing. The big problem is that he is pretending to play. You'll find quotes littered from me across various games giving 3 scenarios for Palmar: 1) he tries hard and he is productive. He is town. 2) he blatantly doesn't give a shit and doesn't hide the fact he is not productive. He is town. 3) he looks like he's playing the game a bit but in reality is unproductive. He is mafia. What we have this game is scenario 3. Take the start of the game. rayn did some random townclaim that literally is not worth mentioning, and is also not really the type of thing that Palmar gives a fuck about. But Palmar asks him about previous games, but then "remembers" that he has townclaimed as town before and didn't do so as mafia. It's dead content, he could have just thought for 2 seconds and remembered this instead of bringing something irrelevant to the thread. The only reason I have 6 pages of filter is you marv, anyone can go back and check where in my filter we start going back and forth. Also weren't you just in a game with me where I tried to call VE mafia for singing in his opening post? I do care how people open their games. On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote: If you recall, I asked for a clarification from Palmar earlier about what he remembered and what he looked up, because I wanted to know if he went away and found things that contradicted his "theory", or he in fact already knew them. And by and large he already knew them. This is crazy, even if I'm the scummiest scum in town there is no reason for me to lie about things like this? I was surprised when you asked me to clarify it, as I thought the original sentence was straightforward enough. The bolded sentence is just straight up false, that's making stuff up. If I say I did not know how rayn opened suspicion mafia until I went and checked, why do you think that's a lie? And more importantly, what makes you think I'd lie about that even if I was mafia? On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote: Palmar asked me a really standard, flat question about how I viewed Holyflare, to see if I had been reading the thread attentively. That's literally not how you ever read me, and anyone who knows me passingly knows that. I will produce good content in my own time (or not), and I do not need to be "quizzed" on reading comprehension of the thread. It's just an empty way of looking like he's involved and caring about what's going on. But he doesn't. I'll actually concede this. I have no idea how to read you in general. My latest theory arose from Default suspicion where I decided if marv doesn't make a really insightful comment on something day 1 he is mafia. I thought holyflare's progression throughout his argument with rayn looked really townie, especially the part where HF got mad at rayn for being a dick with his read. So I decided to try to poke you to see if you had come to a similar conclusion. On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote: Palmar offers to speak to Robik about Robik's read on him - look, Palmar cares! But when Robik tries to open a dialogue with Palmar, repeatedly, he's not responded to. Palmar doesn't care. Sorry about that Robik, I genuinely intended to talk to you but I did not play all that much yesterday, and I have a hard time focusing on other things when I think I know something's up. Also I was gonna yell at Robik post game for saying I scumslipped in that sentence I fumbled when I couldn't have as I don't know my alignment  On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote: I say he doesn't because it's quite clear. His reads are all empty one liners, hiding behind a facade of joviality but he's literally not trying to move the game on. Speaking of his read on me, look how weak and spineless it is. I start calling him scum, and we get Fine, whatever. Kinda half-hearted but I guess any alignment can post this way. I basically continue because I'm pretty interested in *how* Palmar is going to omgus me (plus it's fun to antagonise Palmar a bit). I push Palmar on his read on me: I disagree with him, and say he doesn't, so: So he votes me. The point of all this is that Palmar is not leading the way in any of this. He half-heartedly calls me mafia when I start saying he's mafia, and he literally only votes for me when I tell him to. Palmar as town, if he's playing seriously, tries to genuinely find out what I'm doing, or he'll just full-blown omgus me. None of this in-the-middle, in-between-omgus-because-marv-told-me-to nonsense. But marv! How can I call you mafia when you don't show me why you're mafia? Remember when I said my entire case on you is that you think I'm mafia? That was true. Marv: "Palmar you're mafia" Palmar: "Uh, are you scum marv? why am I mafia?" Marv: "nuh uh, not gonna tell you, go do other things" Palmar: "..." Palmar: "I guess my case on you then is that you call me mafia" Marv: "LOOK HE TOOK A LONG TIME CALLING ME MAFIA" Of course I'm not leading the way in any of this, you're not saying anything that I can use to build a case on you. I mean it's a great gameplan, you're calling me out on something that's a direct result of how you respond towards me. I bolded the important part. You now have to explain how you think I'd respond if you had immediately dropped any kind of reasons for thinking I'm scum. If your theory holds any water, I would have responded in the same way I did now. But I'm fairly confident (like I think I know myself) that I would have responded entirely differently if you had actually pushed your case at that point. Then again, seeing as what we're talking about here is part of your case, you probably didn't really have a case at that time anyway. On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote: Regarding gumshoe They had this thing at the beginning of the game. Kinda culminated in Just as a brief recap into Palmar's usual modus operandi, he'll usually try to delve into someone's motives as much as he can, and when he's decided someone is mafia, they're gonna be mafia, he'll have some (a lot) of faith in his own read usually. Anyways so yeah, voting gumshoe. Shortly after in the conversation: This bolded part (and also his general tone in his posts after he votes gumshoe, you can go check for yourselves) actually mostly seems to imply that gumshoe is in fact town, and Palmar is defending his stance against a town gumshoe. Not that gumshoe is mafia (supposedly) and twisting what Palmar is doing to a scummy narrative.[/Quote Later on he decides: Palmar has changed his opinion for no particular reason. It's weak, and it's weak reasoning, given what has come before. Some other thing of note: Town-Palmar almost never answers questions on alignment with a simple statement read like this. If he does so, it's in a jokey-trolly way, like "prplhz confirmed town hero" or "Holyflare is not my scumbuddy". Palmar is a massive proponent of always explaining why your read is what it is, but he neglects to do so until pushed. Seeing as we agree on gumshoe's alignment it seems really strange that you're trying to call me out on coming to the same conclusion as you did. Are you accusing me of changing my mind? I guess I'm guilty as charged officer. Oh man, if only I had the presence of mind to just randomly weigh in on the discussion instead of actually having it like this marv. Do you think it's unreasonable for me to think gumshoe's aggressiveness towards me at the beginning of the game is very uncharacteristic of what I'd assume is how he plays mafia? I got mad and voted him when he called me scum for not thinking rayn is scum based on rainbows, but seeing how he played that pick your power game it's very hard to think he has stepped up his scumgame so much since then. Also, because meta: The bolded holds true for any alignment. I was scum last game and I didn't answer like this. So why does it make me scum that I do? On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote: tldr: Palmar doesn't care about finding mafia, even though he kinda tries to make it look like he's interested. He has no real reads on anyone even though he's given superficial reads which require no thought. He's inconsistent in a spineless way re:gumshoe. His attitude towards me has been pretty spineless because frankly he doesn't know how to deal with me, whereas if he were town he'd smack me down rather than practically have me make him vote me. The dude is mafia. Again I'll concede this. I have no idea how to deal with you. I know you won't be bullied into explaining your stuff, and there is nothing to smack you down on. In fact, because most of your case is based on assumptions on how I play, do you disagree that I generally hold my vote until I make a case and I can push it as town? The only reason I didn't smack you down is that you refused to give me something to smack down, you just called me scum and then went on your way. I have never cared about actually voting, because I don't consider a vote a vote unless it's being backed up by a push and you know this. So why do you think it's a point against me that I didn't vote you initially? I had nothing to base a case on. Townmarv doesn't think like this, but I know who does | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On March 27 2014 15:55 thrawn2112 wrote: how do you think we're supposed to figure out your alignment? you can't just do this to become lynch-immune No I know, which is why I generally don't claim it when I do, I do it occasionally in games where the role doesn't matter at all on day 1. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 27 2014 05:58 IAmRobik wrote: At this rate, no one deserves to win the belt. Y'all are just clusterfucking up the thread with shit that's confusing the piss out of me. Less meta. Less nonsense. More: My town list is this: My mafia list is this: if you want to include a short explanation or a link to posts you've made about it, that's fine. But you guys are legitimately sitting here and recycling the same 5 fucking phrases over and over again. It's really stupid and annoying and it needs to stop. If you don't understand the cases that have been presented so far, then you'll never fucking understand them, cause they've been explained to such great fucking length at this point that a fucking 6 year old without an understanding of 1/2 the words that you use would fucking figure out who thinks who is town and scum. up to page 35 rayn - Several points that I liked through the game: Behaviour around Palmar-gumshoe, His explanations regarding robik, his robik-read, his case on thrawn HF - town for HF/rayn-argument gumshoe - probably town for his exchange with Palmar IAmRobik - leaning town, I can follow his explanations about tone and the storyline holds up marv - I have no clue. He is being such a dick with witholding information that I feel unsure now prplhz - Null. Scummy points: no reads after readthrough, very passive, townie points: is prplhz Palmar - might be scum. I don't know what he is doing or what he hopes to achieve, but it doesn't really remind me of town Palmar, and I cannot see a townie motivation behind is behaviour thrawn - scum | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On March 27 2014 17:11 Palmar wrote: No I know, which is why I generally don't claim it when I do, I do it occasionally in games where the role doesn't matter at all on day 1. so you checked your role pm and you're scum right? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On March 27 2014 17:16 Holyflare wrote: so you checked your role pm and you're scum right? Still haven't, not really gonna do it until night falls. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On March 27 2014 17:13 phagga wrote: Palmar - might be scum. I don't know what he is doing or what he hopes to achieve, but it doesn't really remind me of town Palmar, and I cannot see a townie motivation behind is behaviour What AM I doing? This is the most blanket statement read I have ever seen, there is literally not a single word of actual content in here. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 27 2014 10:57 gumshoe wrote: I presented a meta argument in your favour to counter the meta one against you. When my reasoning was over turned I conceded for the moment, but I was by no means prepared to completely wright you off as scum and was still eager to hear you out. Do you think that makes me scummy? In regards to your question palmar, main thing was that phagga jumped on robik ( a player known to form early reads) for his early generic town read of rayn, yet later when queried by holy he provides his own bland town read of Rayn o-o. Which gives me the impression he was jumping on a weak player as opposed to finding scum. Annd that's a wrap for me, night town gl. Can you please elaborate on the bolded part? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On March 27 2014 01:44 marvellosity wrote: oki doki :D you have until tonight/tomorrow anyway (depending how impatient I am). Who knows, I might even be wrong. It's so boring catching mafia within 24h of every single game, so I'd prefer it if you were actually town and could show me. It would be much more interesting for me personally. marv y u say you could be wrong but then say that u haz actual case later? On March 27 2014 02:17 marvellosity wrote: What? I know my case against you, I'm just not interested in making it right now. I'm happy to talk about anything else in the meantime. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On March 27 2014 16:39 thrawn2112 wrote: how do you mean? are you talking about how i'm posting now or earlier? i don't think there should be any difference rgith now earlier was completely different which you attributed to sleep fine now is different because i am your top scum read barring your sheep on palmar who apparently hasn't checked his pm yet and you haven't been asking me questions about what i've said or trying to determine whether you are wrong or not so, why are you so different? you are making statements but not doing the digging | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
so I have no idea. and now palmar comes out with his claim of not having read his PM, which I guess is most likely to be true because I know he's done it before. why am I different? lol, I wish I knew. I think I have this problem where if I play too many games in a row I start forgetting how to find mafia or something | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
Here's ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=6#101 ) marv's first real post of the game and I do not like. Does marv really expect that gumshoe must be voting for palmar this early based on what gumshoe has said? This question seems a little stupid for marv. What difference does a vote make? I'm reading through thrawn's spoilers (in the 1st one now) and I really like just about everything he's saying. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 27 2014 17:21 Palmar wrote: What AM I doing? This is the most blanket statement read I have ever seen, there is literally not a single word of actual content in here. You have been bickering with Marv and never tried to put your thoughts into the thread. You were useless over several pages, and that's not how you play as town. Also I completely agree with marvs case on you. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On March 27 2014 17:32 thrawn2112 wrote: i don't know if you are my top scumread. if i had to answer that question superficially the answer would probably be "yes." but there are all these layers of paranoid association reads getting in the way, plus it seems like when you aren';t doing something I find scummy, you're doing something I find townie..... so I have no idea. and now palmar comes out with his claim of not having read his PM, which I guess is most likely to be true because I know he's done it before. why am I different? lol, I wish I knew. I think I have this problem where if I play too many games in a row I start forgetting how to find mafia or something you are making statements but not doing the digging | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On March 27 2014 18:12 phagga wrote: You have been bickering with Marv and never tried to put your thoughts into the thread. You were useless over several pages, and that's not how you play as town. Also I completely agree with marvs case on you. you aren';t factoring his "i haven't read my role PM claim"? if it's true then marv's case literally counts for nothing. if he hasn;t read his PM then the only way you can reasonably call palmar mafia is if you do it by PoE | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
yeah give me time | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 27 2014 18:17 thrawn2112 wrote: you aren';t factoring his "i haven't read my role PM claim"? if it's true then marv's case literally counts for nothing. if he hasn;t read his PM then the only way you can reasonably call palmar mafia is if you do it by PoE If his claim is true, should it not be in his interest to play like he was town? In case he's town, he did his job; in case he is mafia, he looks good. I mean, that would be the reason why you don't read your PM in the first place, I assume? | ||
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