http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=24#464

this reinforces my town read on rayn. it shows his thought process, like he's thinking about the game as a puzzle, which is how townies approach the game rather than scum who know alignments

(page 25) I have a hard time believing marv is serious about this palmar vote. palmar seems kinda townie to me so far. also, marv is refusing to talk to palmar and is not explaining why he thinks palmar is mafia. he's playing it off like he's above having to do those things, but he isn't and he should know that.

eh. but marv is just so casual about all of this. i dont know what to think about him atm.

Ok, around pages 27-29 my reads on holyflare, palmar, and marv have flip flopped several times, most of it being related to associative tells based on hf and marv pointing out some questionable things that palmar said. So my reads on all 3 of them have weakend (except marv really, i've never had a real read on him) but the reads are still the same.

I think i'm losing my townread on phagga. he asked some reasonable stuff at the beginning but he's barely around, and hardly around for very long. it's not very difficult for scum to only say smart things if they don't actually say very many things.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=30#591

lol, prplhz is still hilarious and I still think he's town. the only way he's mafia is if he's going for the "let's only do things and post things that everyone will think is too scummy to be scum" plan

gumshoe comes in around pages 32/33 and sorta defends me and i'm not sure how I feel about it. i think this ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=33#658 ) post might be the tipping point, the point where's he's defending me too hard. my problem with gum's position is that it doesn't seem like he's wondering if I could be mafia, he's only seeing things from town-thrawn's PoV. He should at least TRY to see if there is a scum thrawn PoV. sooo scum points for gumshoe

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=34#662

then gumshoe caves in and starts scumreading me... was that all it took? he spent two pages defending me and suddenly he flips his read because of a meta statement from rayn that gumshow ust took for granted?

I presented a meta argument in your favour to counter the meta one against you. When my reasoning was over turned I conceded for the moment, but I was by no means prepared to completely wright you off as scum and was still eager to hear you out. Do you think that makes me scummy?

In regards to your question palmar, main thing was that phagga jumped on robik ( a player known to form early reads) for his early generic town read of rayn, yet later when queried by holy he provides his own bland town read of Rayn o-o. Which gives me the impression he was jumping on a weak player as opposed to finding scum.

Annd that's a wrap for me, night town gl.

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 27 2014 02:10 GMT

#742

On March 27 2014 10:57 gumshoe wrote:

I presented a meta argument in your favour to counter the meta one against you. When my reasoning was over turned I conceded for the moment, but I was by no means prepared to completely wright you off as scum and was still eager to hear you out. Do you think that makes me scummy?

none of the meta presented by anyone has been correct. i am usually laid back, but sometimes i can be very aggressive. just go look at wc2, it'll debunk almost every meta argument that's been made against me.

the isse i had with your posts is that you started from the postion that indicated that you weren't willing to consider that i'm mafia, as if you knew my alignment. then you suddenly change your read over a meta argument that isn't even accurate, and you're not even trying to do the meta research yourself.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30774 Posts

March 27 2014 05:27 GMT

#743

So all those notes and then you vote palmar? Care to fully explain why when it seems like your biggest scum read is me?

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 27 2014 05:30 GMT

#744

sheeping marv, did you read his case? it's good.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30774 Posts

March 27 2014 05:38 GMT

#745

Yes, so you posted all those notes to have 0 conclusions and end up sheeping marv, so in reality all those notes mean nothing unless you are willing to point out who another scum is. Which you didn't.

So actually all those words meant nothing.

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 27 2014 05:41 GMT

#746

correct, they mean nothing so far as where my current vote is.

Holyflare

United Kingdom30774 Posts

March 27 2014 05:52 GMT

#747

Well screw your current vote, tell me what other conclusions you drew.

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 27 2014 06:04 GMT

#748

I'm pretty confident calling rayn, robik, and marv all town. The marv read might seems different than the read from my notes, that is because I haven't worried too much about his alignment and I've been waiting to for him to finally post his real agenda for D1. Now he finally has, I've read it, I agree with his palmar read, and I think marv is town.

I still think you could be mafia. I was pretty certain about this up until this post, that's the part I mentioned in my notes where I started doubting my reads on you and palmar. I thought it was a nice catch, regardless of if it meant anything, and it made me start paying more attention to marv's palmar wagon. But if it weren't for marv's case, I'd probably be voting you becaseu like I said in the notes, it looks like you're willing to call everybody mafia, and you only focus on the player that it's the safest to focus on.

about palmar/marv:

I think both of them were being kinda stupid and uncooperative, but marv was doing it in a way that felt way more natural. Marv pointed this out in his case, that palmar's interactions with marv during their spat were just bad and unnatural. Like it's cool if you are going to troll and vote people for no reason, which is what both of them seemed to be doing to each other. But Palmar seemed like he eas going for both the troll/serious route, which doesn't make any sense. Whereas it looks like marv was kinda trolling but eventually his suspicious turned into a real read because of how palmar reacted to it.

everything else is probably very similar to what was in the notes, with the expection of my read on gumshoe becaseu right now I have no idea what it is

Holyflare

United Kingdom30774 Posts

March 27 2014 06:17 GMT

#749

So you call rayn scum, i call rayn scum. I am scum...? The reason for calling rayn scum was because robik looked suspicious and rayn said he was a town read and you agreed with me that rayn was being weird for the same reason. Sooo... You calling yourself scummy then?

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 27 2014 06:22 GMT

#750

you called palmar scum, you called robik scum, you called rayn scum, then you called me scum, and that's all only in the first few pages of the game. i don't have a problem with someone being a loose cannon, but the problem is that the scumread you decided to "focus" on always happens to be the one that would allow you to look "best" considering current thread sentiment.

like earlier, marv asked you something about palmar. you said you'd lynch palmar after me.

so what does that mean? what is your actual read on palmar? you also ignored my question about marv's case

Palmar

Iceland22632 Posts

March 27 2014 06:28 GMT

#751

Marv I love you, this case is great

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 27 2014 06:33 GMT

#752

On March 27 2014 15:28 Palmar wrote:
Marv I love you, this case is great

is he still mafia?

Palmar

Iceland22632 Posts

March 27 2014 06:35 GMT

#753

On March 27 2014 15:33 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

is he still mafia?

Of course!

Palmar

Iceland22632 Posts

March 27 2014 06:36 GMT

#754

Wanna know why?

I have not read my role PM.

[image loading]

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 27 2014 06:38 GMT

#755

so you are saying that marv is mafia because he's making a case on a confirmed person who doesnt know alignments, or a "townie"

so your case is that marv is mafia because he is "wrong?"

Palmar

Iceland22632 Posts

March 27 2014 06:50 GMT

#756

On March 27 2014 15:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
so you are saying that marv is mafia because he's making a case on a confirmed person who doesnt know alignments, or a "townie"

so your case is that marv is mafia because he is "wrong?"

I need to hop away for a bit, but I'll explain why marv's case is wrong in a little while

And yes, marv being intentionally bad in the way he's being makes him mafia.

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 27 2014 06:55 GMT

#757

how do you think we're supposed to figure out your alignment? you can't just do this to become lynch-immune

Holyflare

United Kingdom30774 Posts

March 27 2014 06:55 GMT

#758

On March 27 2014 15:22 thrawn2112 wrote:
you called palmar scum, you called robik scum, you called rayn scum, then you called me scum, and that's all only in the first few pages of the game. i don't have a problem with someone being a loose cannon, but the problem is that the scumread you decided to "focus" on always happens to be the one that would allow you to look "best" considering current thread sentiment.

like earlier, marv asked you something about palmar. you said you'd lynch palmar after me.

so what does that mean? what is your actual read on palmar? you also ignored my question about marv's case

I dropped my scum read of palmar almost instantly because it was based off one post that i seemingly misread and rayn/robik looked scummy for greater points than 1 post. I fail to see how it's getting scum reads on things that "look best" because rayn looked awful and robik did too for having a strong read on rayn when i thought his opening posts were quite bad. I dropped that when i found out you lied. Ezpz.

And what question?

Also palmar you said you were going to win the belt. Why put no effort in the day you say you are best at?

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

March 27 2014 07:11 GMT

#759

i asked for you r opinion on marv's case