EPTSo yeah, preliminary /in
Doctor Who Mafia 2
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Vivax
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So yeah, preliminary /in | ||
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On March 27 2014 15:07 kushm4sta wrote: i was making fun of a british person on dota for drinking tea, and he said he never drank tea in his life. seriously? Those pesky Indians actually want to get paid for their tea now. Can you imagine that? | ||
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On March 30 2014 06:24 Hopeless1der wrote: lol slam confirmed town - does not read thread On March 30 2014 09:31 Hopeless1der wrote: I can't vouch for slams blabbering about meta reasons for his 1vs1 with rayn but slam is largely unreadable/incomprehensible around 95% of the time and it generally becomes necessary to burn a lynch on him...before lylo if possible. Is that first post a joke? | ||
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This post from kita I found scummy: + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: lol you amuse me. But you have it backwards. I'm simply trying to gather the pieces for myself. The puzzle is mine to solve. As for your "web of disruption" post, it has a catchy name, but I'll respond once you come to an actual conclusion. thrawn is off my naughty list for the moment. People of interest: Tehpoofter seems to be asking questions that I don't find all that interesting. His initial vote of slam seems a bit forced. Amiko asking me or hope for the clarification doesn't seem scummy to me. We were probably just around. His lack of opinion and direction does appear scummy however. g Hopeless with his "do i need to go through the motions of totes serious voting to get a response?" conveys a kind of "look at me doing someone" without actually coming to a conclusion other than that I'm useless slam...generally I try to ignore him and the last time I did so I believe he was mafia. Day one survivor claims are usually someone I would lynch, even if I thought they might be a survivor. My biggest worry is that he might be a trolly town who is willing to get lynched and doesn't care, but he wasn't willing to role claim when asked and shows signs of over frustration that doesn't appear genuine. I'll probably leave my vote on him, though we need to avoid the scenario where nobody is under pressure because the lynch is already decided. kush is someone who usually gets on my nerves early and hasn't done so yet, which is a concern. I seem to remember him playing mafia and acting completely reasonable, but I'll have to look back to familiarize myself with some of his more recent games. In my opinion, thrawn and hope both overreacted to the random vote, yet kush doesn't draw the same conclusion by only expressing suspicion of thrawn. If slam is a survivor, then kush being the first one to defend him may make sense as mafia if he knows his alignment. This way of talking of "people of interest" summarizing some stuff to show where you stand kinda looks like posting for the sake of posting. Interesting is he only talks (as of suspects) about people that didn't react to his previous behaviour or asked him questions about his intentions. | ||
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about people that didn't react to his previous behaviour or asked him questions about his intentions. Speaking mainly of rayn and thrawn who have been either describing his play as possibly mafia-motivated and thrawn generally asking what kita was up to. Might be others have asked him some stuff but I remembered those two interacting a lot with him. The buddy heuristics thing he used on thrawn was pretty weird in my opinion cause it looks like unserious stuff and it generally causes a lot of confusion cause people always get to hide behind claiming that it wasn't. Anyway, he backtracked on thrawn and then summarized a bunch of stuff about people other than rayn and thrawn as if he felt under pressure instead of simply trying to make his previous actions transparent like requested. | ||
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On March 30 2014 06:24 Hopeless1der wrote: lol slam confirmed town - does not read thread On March 30 2014 06:27 Alakaslam wrote: Well seeing that bullshit ends now then. Rayn wtf. You always know my alignment uncanny early. You couldn't get my mood from anything yet? Hopeless what indication do you have that makes my lynch understandable? Toad same question. Don't go slandering saying I still don't help town. I'm not gonna be an NK in that yeah I generally suxxor but apparently there is a meta I can't fight so ppl will know im town in time. On the other hand you guys blatantly LHF the first guy Rayn prods- note he didn't vote me himself! Rayn likely town but you guys make me think this gaem b ez On March 30 2014 06:29 Hopeless1der wrote: slam i called you town right afterwards and didnt vote you to begin with big whoop, wanna fight about it? On March 30 2014 22:41 Hopeless1der wrote: Yes vivax, is joke. Toad you want to explain why I'm scummy? Foolishness-hydra modkill bullshit notwithstanding you've quotes 2 posts and said "lynch dis" On March 31 2014 06:12 Toadesstern wrote: about hopeless: The reason that this is a lynch for me is because noone else gave a crap about what alakaslam was posting while hopeless does sound somewhat defensive here. Pointing out that he did call him town afterwards in a way that reeks of buddy without being funny/trollish about it. I really don't like how serious this first sentence is phrased, a sentence that is about nothing but telling slam that hopeless got a townread on slam like he's trying to not get in trouble because of some random crap while noone else seemed to care about it because it's slam we're talking about here. I can see where Toad is coming from with his argument, but I want to hear if anybody else thinksfor example that hopeless telling he doesn't suspect Alakaslam when being prodded is supposed to make him scum. The other options I see for hopeless to answer this is to say why he wanted to kill Alakaslam in the first place, or by saying that he wasn't serious with the "let's kill Kaslam" thing. In your opinion, which are more townie and more scummy? Is Toad right in saying that he's overdefending? | ||
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You think it's over defensive stuff and scummy or something that a townie would say? | ||
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On March 30 2014 16:14 Toadesstern wrote: what's the point of that answer. You don't know if hopeless is mafia, do you? He asked you a serious question and you're dodging it by answering with a relation of unflipped people. On March 30 2014 16:19 Toadesstern wrote: actually rayn needs lynching too imo ##vote Rayn On March 31 2014 06:12 Toadesstern wrote: -snip- About rayn: He looks awful right now but I'd like to give him some time. Acting like this is most certainly something he'd do and he was mighty pissed about Mocsta last game we played together as well. I do think there's a difference though, a difference Kita has pointed out as well: The fact that he is putting in a lot of effort despite saying that he doesn't care. He did not do that in the game we had with Mocsta, he went afk came back, sheep-voted someone and that was that. The thing about this however is that it's a really stupid reason to vote someone because I'm essentially saying he's putting in more effort than he should and with this kind of thing I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now and just assume that he improved from last game. I have to say that I see a lot more reasonings for this happening from a mafia PoV though, like him actually being pissed but not just doing nothing because he'd feel bad about his teammates whereas as townie you usually don't care that much about it. And the more I think about it the more I want him lynched but I don't want to... because if I'm wrong on this I'd feel so horribly bad for this... long story short, I want some time to make up my mind on rayn. About Alakaslam: I have no idea what's going on with that guy. None at all Toad, you never said why you even wanted Rayn lynched, but it should obviously have to do with the way he answered that question. Why do you try to hold back so hard with him to the point of not mentioning the reason for your vote at all? It's like you thought he said something that looked scummy, voted for him, then backtrack without saying what you found scummy in the first place. | ||
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On March 31 2014 21:45 Hopeless1der wrote: I don't like how hung up on me vivax is. Don't be so self-centered, maybe I'm hung up on Toad? | ||
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You don't feel the need to comment on his accusations after asking him why he thinks of you as scum? On March 30 2014 22:41 Hopeless1der wrote: Yes vivax, is joke. Toad you want to explain why I'm scummy? Foolishness-hydra modkill bullshit notwithstanding you've quotes 2 posts and said "lynch dis" | ||
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On March 31 2014 21:55 Hopeless1der wrote: not particularly. My understanding of the jist of it is I'm scummy for taking slam even remotely seriously. Yeah but why do you tell him he has not to fear since you called him town and later you call that "townread" a joke post when I ask you about it? | ||
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On March 31 2014 16:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: austin looks really good. I am surprised i get what he is saying.  tehpoofer actually is probably scum. He tells me to do scumhunting. Surprise surprise i think i have done the most scumhunting in this game hands down. He has talked about nothing than me, he bases his read on me on one game (rofl), noone agrees with him on his read, yet his meta read must be correct. ^^ I could write a bigger case but i don't wanna do that right now. Basically he keeps flip-flopping over same things over and over again, when i tell him why they are wrong he forgets them for a while and then they suddenly just reappear. He is saying maybe two things and nothing else in this game. I agree with whoever said (austin?) that Hopeless is town. While i think his play is completely useless and idiotic he is town. JJD also looks okayish. so kita and tehpoofer are most likely scum. maybe gumshoe. On April 01 2014 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: bah i promised to tell you who is scum so no selfvoting: ##unvote vote kitaman27 Strong townies: Toadesstern - town austinmcc - had a good post about Hopeless, i totally agree with the thought process and conclusion. Hopeless would be an easy target for scum to go after, austin has not been in thread so he would probably go after him. Hopeless1der - sadly he is town, and a strong read. will not help most likely  thrawn2112 - has only good posts and is making a lot of sense. most likely to solve this game. seems to be one of the few people with any brain. kushm4sta - dumb but town. Djodref - claimed blue. Tehpoofter - brave. says stuff he wants to. while dumb conclusions they make sense for town!poofer to say more than mafia!poofer. Weaker town: JarJarDrinks - focuses on things he usually focuses on as town. will most likely be called scum at some point because people don't know what he does as town, or rather don't understand. thrawn focus on people who go after JJD and see why they do. If JJD is town (he more likely is) he is easy mislynch because people just don't get why he says stuff he does. you will get it, noone else will most likely. Amiko - would have liked to hear more from him. he does stuff that's weird and focuses on weird stuff but he is kinda brave and doesn't hesitate to give his opinions on things. looks townie. Vivax - thinks kita is scum. Weak scum: gumshoe - hasn't said anything Kill with fire: kitaman27 Alakaslam Now there is a possibility Slam is scum. Remember that. The problem is if you are going to lynch me you need to lynch mafia on D2 and D3 and you can't lynch Slam. You'll most likely lose if you do because of the yak shit. D1 doesn't matter but if you lynch town on D1 you can't risk lynching Slam on D2. You just can't and that's on you then. So lynch kita -> lynch gumshoe. Hope one of them flips yak and then lynch Slam. There is probably gonna be one more mafia after that in case Slam is not mafia (i don't think he is). If Slam is third faction with KP you are all fucked and it's good i am not in the game because i would be so mad. This is going to be my last post. Maybe i'll rub some salt into your wounds and come back and claim 5min before the deadline, just to tell how dumb you are. then you say your vote on Hopeless was some kind of sheepy vote on a multitude of players. Kita is among them, this is the last thing you wrote about him before putting that vote is this: It makes sense to me but kita is building the web for some reason. I think it's distracting and therefore scummy. I don't see what he is trying to achieve. after having called his play scummy for a while. So you wanna say that you voted hopeless cause you trusted one of your suspects to be making the right guess? On April 01 2014 01:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: My vote on Hopeless was because of the one post i found odd and because Toad was town and if all of Toad, Foolishness and kita think Hopeless is scum, in addition to me finding a scummy post from him he is probably scum. Then he started doing townie stuff and Slam claimed anti-town. | ||
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On April 01 2014 02:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am putting Vivax back to null - leaning scum because his kitanamn suspicion went *poof* and it disappeared and he is not reading properly. I am working things off one by one. Nowhere did I say my suspicion of kita went "poof", so don't assume so just cause I am currently not asking him questions. If you could simply answer instead of spamming desperation cryouts cause of a question then it would be appreciated thanks. | ||
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i just think he is mafia because other people look more or less town and have done townie things Cause other people look more or less town you think Kasla is mafia fakeclaiming 3p? | ||
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I like how you explain things around rayn here in your post in spoiler since I got the feeling that he's creating a lot of confusion and drama and I don't like that, it's just that I can't tell if he's doing it on purpose or cause he's just being like that and town but what I do see is that he throws around with scumreads without trying to let them be productive. He's accusatory not inquisitive and he reminds me of the kind of attitude I saw on him in that game where he hydraed with Mocsta as scum, in which he also behaved pretty negatively throughout the game. I'm not sure if I would lynch him D1 though, I would rather be happy with a Kaslam lynch, like I mentioned it's also possible he's traitor and it's already enough if we don't lynch town and get the doubt of the way. + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 23:12 kitaman27 wrote: On raynpelikoneet So here is what I was doing at the start of this game. I was actually trying to accomplish something with my play. I was reproducing my behavior to a tee from the recent shadow mini mafia game. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 09:31 kitaman27 wrote: ##Vote Sandroba On January 21 2014 11:28 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not voting him as a joke. I think he is a great vote. We should lynch him today. On January 21 2014 10:46 kitaman27 wrote: Wanna vote sandroba with me? He may or may not be scummy. On January 21 2014 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: Do you think I'm trying to paint sandroba in a bad light using my "scummy thought process" like you mentioned or do you think that it was a random vote with little thought? I random voted moments into the game, I refused to provide an explanation when asked, I requested that someone vote with me without details, I asked a similar question when prompted, and I moved off the random vote shortly after. The goal here was to prompt someone to question my behavior and see if they attempt to make the connection or if they simply pass off my play as scummy. rayn mentioned that he observed shadow and toad and austin played in it, so even if they don't remember the random vote, it would likely be the first place to look as it was my most recent town game. It's important to note that I'm not trying to say that me emulating my shadow mafia play makes me town. I'm saying that the connection is there for anyone interested in finding it. I was pretty happy that rayn had suggested that was was going to do some research and pushed him in the right direction several times as you can see below. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: As for your "web of disruption" post, it has a catchy name, but I'll respond once you come to an actual conclusion. On March 30 2014 16:23 kitaman27 wrote: Well I'm going to bed now. When I wake up, can you provide a follow up to the "web of disruption" post? On March 31 2014 01:06 kitaman27 wrote: rayn, have you finished your research yet? On multiple occasions, rayn confirms that he will do the work to back up his initial suspicions. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now i gotta figure out if kita does this only as mafia or does he do this as town too (or maybe only as town?) On March 30 2014 16:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes. I'll watch the Formula 1 race that starts in ~30min and i'll do my research after that. Yet when push comes to shove, he decides not to put the effort in. He spends the time into coming up with his thesis that I'm creating a "web of disruption", yet has no interest in backing it up. If he is going to call me scummy, when does he have no interest in catching me? Now there are three possible explanations: 1) He dropped the ball as town, attacking me without putting in the effort 2) He did the research as mafia, didn't like what he found, and dropped the case to avoid calling me town 3) He is a lazy scum player who didn't want to go after me at a point where several players are calling me town If rayn thought that I was looking decently townie otherwise, then maybe I'd consider number one. The biggest issue that I have right now is that as far as I can tell, I am rayn's number one scum suspect. He is pushing slam for being anti-town and shows that he may have reconsidered his read on tehpoofer, yet not a word about myself. rayn describes his play best. I don't think you can argue that he isn't being lazy here. rayn was given the pieces of the puzzle to solve and he chose not to because he "doesn't care". This line of thought is pretty terrible. He explains his willingness to vote for hopelessness over a minor observation about hope a few hours into the game. Not only does he not consider that foolishness could be wrong, he is using the justification for the vote because he respects foolishness as a player, not because he thinks its a valid argument. He even goes as far as dropping his suspicion of myself due to my interaction with hope. rayn states that he has done the most scum hunting in the game hands down, he suggests that I am his number one scum read, and he hasn't showed any attempt to figure out my alignment. As he mentioned earlier, he is trying to force the pieces in the wrong order. The one thing holding me up is 1) His mass claim policy is consistent with his previous behavior as town 2) Slam is one of the most anti-town players in recent memory Right now I'd probably be leaning towards a rayn lynch and hopefully having a vig take care of slam so he is removed as a discussion topic. I would like to look at a few more individuals before I finalize my vote. | ||
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On April 01 2014 03:49 kitaman27 wrote: Would anyone consider traitor to fall under the category of changing alignment? I wouldn't really. Traitors generally are always mafia, its just that they can communicate if identified. It seems unlikely that mafia would have both a town recruiting role and a traitor role in the same game. I suppose a third party traitor that joins the mafia team is a possibility, but I've never seem something like that before. Who says he has to be an alignment changer? Maybe there's also a cultist type of role. In any case lynching him is not a bad idea cause with a traitor mafia can claim at mylo and try to let him win with them cause if he doesn't they just shoot him lol. | ||
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On April 01 2014 03:51 kitaman27 wrote: I was hardly under any pressure at any point prior to presenting my rayn post. Would you mind pointing out what you are referring to? Sure you were, thrawn, rayn and a few others I think kept asking you questions to wtf you were doing. | ||
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On March 31 2014 22:08 kushm4sta wrote: I think toads case on hopeless is unconvincing but it probably comes from town, unless toad stepped it up hard core since his last scum game. Gotta read Raines newest stuff still. I think there is evidence that kita has too much information. What do you think was he referring to kita? | ||
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On April 01 2014 04:22 thrawn2112 wrote: hey guys, fyi i wont be here till 30 min before deadline i will say that i have read the thread and i'm not impressed with the push to lynch rayn but i'm not really willing lynch kita for it. usually weird trap plays that don't seem to make too much sense come from town, and that is enough for me to ignore kita's bad case against rayn. as stated before i am soooo down to lynch a lurker. i notived some people mentioning gumshoe and i'm perfectly fine with that It's not just about the trap. Result of trap was that rayn announced he'd do some research, then after Toad "cheated" he said he didn't care enough to post it, then he went back to calling kita scum and adds gumshoe on top of it. Then he sheeps a Foolishness scumread of which we even don't know if it's really from him and I already tried previously to discuss that point againseless t hopcause I actually want to know if people think it's a good point enough for Toad to go for such a confident scumread on hopeless that early in the game. I'm not sure myself what to read into the point that hope sounded so serious towards kaslam but I don't find it damning even if it's from Foolish cause hope explained he was dicking around with his posts, which isn't too implausible early in the game. | ||
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On March 31 2014 23:35 Hopeless1der wrote: He literally just analyzed your play and asserted that you are scummy by working through your motives related to "web of disruption" and lack of followup. In what universe is that "doing nothing" or "not trying to solve"? He could just as easily coast along on the slam lynch. On March 31 2014 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote: In my currently preferred scenario, we lynch rayn. If he flips town, hope a vig can get you or slam and probably end up lynching the other one. If he flips scum, ##Unvote: Alakaslam ##Vote: raynpelikoneet You make it look like kita alone is responsible for the lynch when you clearly should understand where he was coming from according to those earlier posts where you found his points on rayn valid. Why kita and not slam btw? | ||
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Anyway, what you base your case on is "Vivax missed/left out a post". Yeah, but missed out a post to do what? You automatically come to the conclusion that I did it on purpose to bury rayn, where do you consider that I might have simply missed it? I feel like you're trying to interpret my posts in a rather malicious way as opposed to what for example austin was doing when confronted with your case. You couple that reason with "Vivax wanted to bury rayn" later or something like that which is huge nonsense cause nowhere in that post do I call rayn scum for what he's doing. I am asking him for clarifications on his evolution of reads and to the fact that he claimed to have sheeped a vote from kita in early game which seemed like an unlikely explanation given their attrition. Poofter you seem very comfortable pushing your theories without trying to involve your suspected players in a conversation so I'm asking you to do this now. I've read austin's case on you earlier on and it kinda revolved around how some of your questions seemed out of place so try and show us what questions you would ask to your scumreads please. | ||
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On April 02 2014 18:41 thrawn2112 wrote: vivax are you scumreading tehpoofter? What do you think? | ||
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On April 02 2014 19:11 thrawn2112 wrote: vivax unless you're going to say you have doubts about me being town then you need to answer the question I find this post kinda weird, the way you try to make me answer the question, you think it would be justified for me to skip on question for thikning you are scum, which shouldn't be what you're believing from a look at my filter? Do you have a read on Poofter that makes it interesting for you to hear mine on him? | ||
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For scum: I want to look at vivax, kita, kush and JJD the most. I don't think they are all four scum but I think there is definitely a scum in there. Vivax for the reason that he tried to bury rayn and then voted slam... like he buries a town and gets off the wagon good lay low scum play imo. Can't you I see this as the main reason. | ||
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It is a very stretched reasoning cause for that you would have to assume rayn was only lynched by townies which is stupid cause when scum has the choice between lynching a townie like rayn who on top claims to have a role and a guy like Alakaslam then they will obviously go for the rayn lynch. Basically he's trying to incriminate me for not being dumb and lynching rayn when Kaslam was the safest lynch during that day and I had an abnegation towards his lynch D1 as I made abundantly clear. Do you really agree that scum wouldn't have jumped onto the rayn wagon thrawn? That would surprise me. | ||
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On April 02 2014 20:38 kitaman27 wrote: So I'm going to be at a career fair all day so I won't be able to post during the next 12 hours. All I ask is that I'm given a chance to defend myself first if you do indeed decide to want to use the nuke on myself over slam. I'll post my lynch preference when I return. On April 02 2014 13:39 JarJarDrinks wrote: OK I already pointed out how Kitas "trap" was pretty ridiculous + Show Spoiler + On April 01 2014 00:08 JarJarDrinks wrote: @Kita, tell me if I'm missing something w/ your "trap". You purposefully emulated ur meta from a previous game in order to see if someone would call you scummy for it and not check your previous game? That was your plan to trap scum? And Rayn just happened to do exactly what you were expecting to a tee? I think the only part of that that is true is that you purposefully emulated ur meta from a previous game. And I think it's cause ur scum and you did it to appear town. Thats why you were hinting for people to go read ur meta. Then you got pissed off that people were calling you scum when you made all that effort to look like you did in that game. So you retconned your "trap". On April 01 2014 00:24 JarJarDrinks wrote: I just can't imagine this @ all coming from a town mindset. The only reason I can imagine someone specifically going out of their way to make their posts reproduce a previous town game is if they're scum. The "town trap" reasoning is pretty flimsy. On April 01 2014 00:40 JarJarDrinks wrote: Yeah, I get that. I'm not saying that I think it's something you could do as mafia. That part is obvious. I'm saying I don't see how it's something that anyone would do as town. But here's something else: According to kita, his "trap" was that he copied his meta from his previous game and then when rayn decided not do the research to check it out, he decided that rayn was likely mafia. That was pretty much his main point on rayn. Here's a post from Kita AFTER rayn supposedly fell into his "trap": Bamn. There's proof right there that Kita retconned his rayn case. There's absolutely no way to explain how he makes that post based on this rayn case that he made later: + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 23:12 kitaman27 wrote: On raynpelikoneet So here is what I was doing at the start of this game. I was actually trying to accomplish something with my play. I was reproducing my behavior to a tee from the recent shadow mini mafia game. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 09:31 kitaman27 wrote: ##Vote Sandroba On January 21 2014 11:28 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not voting him as a joke. I think he is a great vote. We should lynch him today. On January 21 2014 10:46 kitaman27 wrote: Wanna vote sandroba with me? He may or may not be scummy. On January 21 2014 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: Do you think I'm trying to paint sandroba in a bad light using my "scummy thought process" like you mentioned or do you think that it was a random vote with little thought? I random voted moments into the game, I refused to provide an explanation when asked, I requested that someone vote with me without details, I asked a similar question when prompted, and I moved off the random vote shortly after. The goal here was to prompt someone to question my behavior and see if they attempt to make the connection or if they simply pass off my play as scummy. rayn mentioned that he observed shadow and toad and austin played in it, so even if they don't remember the random vote, it would likely be the first place to look as it was my most recent town game. It's important to note that I'm not trying to say that me emulating my shadow mafia play makes me town. I'm saying that the connection is there for anyone interested in finding it. I was pretty happy that rayn had suggested that was was going to do some research and pushed him in the right direction several times as you can see below. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: As for your "web of disruption" post, it has a catchy name, but I'll respond once you come to an actual conclusion. On March 30 2014 16:23 kitaman27 wrote: Well I'm going to bed now. When I wake up, can you provide a follow up to the "web of disruption" post? On March 31 2014 01:06 kitaman27 wrote: rayn, have you finished your research yet? On multiple occasions, rayn confirms that he will do the work to back up his initial suspicions. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now i gotta figure out if kita does this only as mafia or does he do this as town too (or maybe only as town?) On March 30 2014 16:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes. I'll watch the Formula 1 race that starts in ~30min and i'll do my research after that. Yet when push comes to shove, he decides not to put the effort in. He spends the time into coming up with his thesis that I'm creating a "web of disruption", yet has no interest in backing it up. If he is going to call me scummy, when does he have no interest in catching me? Now there are three possible explanations: 1) He dropped the ball as town, attacking me without putting in the effort 2) He did the research as mafia, didn't like what he found, and dropped the case to avoid calling me town 3) He is a lazy scum player who didn't want to go after me at a point where several players are calling me town If rayn thought that I was looking decently townie otherwise, then maybe I'd consider number one. The biggest issue that I have right now is that as far as I can tell, I am rayn's number one scum suspect. He is pushing slam for being anti-town and shows that he may have reconsidered his read on tehpoofer, yet not a word about myself. rayn describes his play best. I don't think you can argue that he isn't being lazy here. rayn was given the pieces of the puzzle to solve and he chose not to because he "doesn't care". This line of thought is pretty terrible. He explains his willingness to vote for hopelessness over a minor observation about hope a few hours into the game. Not only does he not consider that foolishness could be wrong, he is using the justification for the vote because he respects foolishness as a player, not because he thinks its a valid argument. He even goes as far as dropping his suspicion of myself due to my interaction with hope. rayn states that he has done the most scum hunting in the game hands down, he suggests that I am his number one scum read, and he hasn't showed any attempt to figure out my alignment. As he mentioned earlier, he is trying to force the pieces in the wrong order. The one thing holding me up is 1) His mass claim policy is consistent with his previous behavior as town 2) Slam is one of the most anti-town players in recent memory Right now I'd probably be leaning towards a rayn lynch and hopefully having a vig take care of slam so he is removed as a discussion topic. I would like to look at a few more individuals before I finalize my vote. Can you respond to this when you are back please (or point me to it in your filter if you already responded to those in case I missed that) | ||
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On April 02 2014 08:21 Hopeless1der wrote: I preferred to lynch rayn partially for "information" purposes, the wagons and peoples reads etc, and partially because I was more inclined to believe he was being a huge bully, creating a toxic environment and refusing to do anything productive. As it turns out rayn is just as capable of being demoralized as anyone else, but I guess I just hold him to a higher standard than other players. Slam imo is a bad lynch because he's likely 3rd party. You're never going to get a useful discussion surrounding his alignment. That meant that for me the lynch was between kita and rayn, and at least on D1 I thought rayn was scummier and worth lynching. The question was: You say something about lynching kita, I ask you why you prefer to mention kita when you said we should also lynch/vig slam in one of your previous posts. Another thing I want to know of you is why you're so against lynching slam. Leaving the survivor survive is bad play if the mafia knows they can convert him cause nobody wants to lynch him cause he claimed 3p. No player should be given definite outs in a game where anyone could suddenly turn scum, and slam should have been lynched D1 already. You don't give clues as to what you think of rayn's alignment throughout having your vote on him. You only seem to do it for the 1 v 1 he had with kita. Another thing is: You voted for Alakaslam D1 before going onto rayn based on his fight with kita. What was the reason for you voting Kaslam if today you say it's bad play to lynch 3p? Did you believe Kaslam was mafia? Cause here's the jist of things: - If you voted for Kaslam thinking he was mafia, it would not make sense for you to vote rayn for information purposes. - If you voted for kaslam thinking he was 3p, then it doesn't make sense for you to say that voting 3p makes it a bad lynch. I'm keen on this one. | ||
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Fixed. Wanted to write this but then I saw you already said why kita first. But forgot to delete. | ||
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Of the people on rayn at the end of D1 I think you have a thin reasoning for ending up on him over Slam. You don't say why you thought he was scummy, but you understood what Kita meant in his post here On March 31 2014 23:35 Hopeless1der wrote: He literally just analyzed your play and asserted that you are scummy by working through your motives related to "web of disruption" and lack of followup. In what universe is that "doing nothing" or "not trying to solve"? He could just as easily coast along on the slam lynch. In the 1 on 1 situation between rayn and kita, you chose to lynch rayn first. You did so for information purposes, so I take it you didn't actually agree with the stuff kita wrote? Cause I don't see you calling rayn scum for anything. | ||
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On April 03 2014 00:30 Hopeless1der wrote: i did agree with kita. i thought rayn was scum @jjd probably not tbh Even though he roleclaimed? | ||
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At any rate, I dont think any scum were on rayn right now. What's the deal with you wanting to avenge rayn and then saying you don't think there was any scum on his wagon (for example kita). So chaotic, do you have any real scum- or townreads? For rayn's lynch you didn't have an own opinion to tell us about him, now you don't have a real one on kita apparently cause first u wanna lynch him then you seem to defend him vs JJD. | ||
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On April 03 2014 01:43 Hopeless1der wrote: viavx, i hadn't read filters yet. My reasoning was literally "town rayn said X is mafia" well gee, i better vote X right away! What is the problem here? That I dont explain myself sufficiently? That I didnt have reasons to begin with or I wasnt taking stances? My filter isnt big, I dont have long convoluted posts. What is so difficult here? Having a clue of what you are thinking when you do stuff. D1 you sheep kita, accept 1 on 1 and say slam should be lynched/vigged. Next day you say something of lynching kita to avenge rayn, not arsed to lynch slam again, then you suddenly turn to JJD defending what kita was doing. Ie in summary it doesn't look like you are having real scumreads. | ||
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On April 02 2014 13:39 JarJarDrinks wrote: OK I already pointed out how Kitas "trap" was pretty ridiculous + Show Spoiler + On April 01 2014 00:08 JarJarDrinks wrote: @Kita, tell me if I'm missing something w/ your "trap". You purposefully emulated ur meta from a previous game in order to see if someone would call you scummy for it and not check your previous game? That was your plan to trap scum? And Rayn just happened to do exactly what you were expecting to a tee? I think the only part of that that is true is that you purposefully emulated ur meta from a previous game. And I think it's cause ur scum and you did it to appear town. Thats why you were hinting for people to go read ur meta. Then you got pissed off that people were calling you scum when you made all that effort to look like you did in that game. So you retconned your "trap". On April 01 2014 00:24 JarJarDrinks wrote: I just can't imagine this @ all coming from a town mindset. The only reason I can imagine someone specifically going out of their way to make their posts reproduce a previous town game is if they're scum. The "town trap" reasoning is pretty flimsy. On April 01 2014 00:40 JarJarDrinks wrote: Yeah, I get that. I'm not saying that I think it's something you could do as mafia. That part is obvious. I'm saying I don't see how it's something that anyone would do as town. But here's something else: According to kita, his "trap" was that he copied his meta from his previous game and then when rayn decided not do the research to check it out, he decided that rayn was likely mafia. That was pretty much his main point on rayn. Here's a post from Kita AFTER rayn supposedly fell into his "trap": Bamn. There's proof right there that Kita retconned his rayn case. There's absolutely no way to explain how he makes that post based on this rayn case that he made later: + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 23:12 kitaman27 wrote: On raynpelikoneet So here is what I was doing at the start of this game. I was actually trying to accomplish something with my play. I was reproducing my behavior to a tee from the recent shadow mini mafia game. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 09:31 kitaman27 wrote: ##Vote Sandroba On January 21 2014 11:28 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not voting him as a joke. I think he is a great vote. We should lynch him today. On January 21 2014 10:46 kitaman27 wrote: Wanna vote sandroba with me? He may or may not be scummy. On January 21 2014 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: Do you think I'm trying to paint sandroba in a bad light using my "scummy thought process" like you mentioned or do you think that it was a random vote with little thought? I random voted moments into the game, I refused to provide an explanation when asked, I requested that someone vote with me without details, I asked a similar question when prompted, and I moved off the random vote shortly after. The goal here was to prompt someone to question my behavior and see if they attempt to make the connection or if they simply pass off my play as scummy. rayn mentioned that he observed shadow and toad and austin played in it, so even if they don't remember the random vote, it would likely be the first place to look as it was my most recent town game. It's important to note that I'm not trying to say that me emulating my shadow mafia play makes me town. I'm saying that the connection is there for anyone interested in finding it. I was pretty happy that rayn had suggested that was was going to do some research and pushed him in the right direction several times as you can see below. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: As for your "web of disruption" post, it has a catchy name, but I'll respond once you come to an actual conclusion. On March 30 2014 16:23 kitaman27 wrote: Well I'm going to bed now. When I wake up, can you provide a follow up to the "web of disruption" post? On March 31 2014 01:06 kitaman27 wrote: rayn, have you finished your research yet? On multiple occasions, rayn confirms that he will do the work to back up his initial suspicions. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now i gotta figure out if kita does this only as mafia or does he do this as town too (or maybe only as town?) On March 30 2014 16:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes. I'll watch the Formula 1 race that starts in ~30min and i'll do my research after that. Yet when push comes to shove, he decides not to put the effort in. He spends the time into coming up with his thesis that I'm creating a "web of disruption", yet has no interest in backing it up. If he is going to call me scummy, when does he have no interest in catching me? Now there are three possible explanations: 1) He dropped the ball as town, attacking me without putting in the effort 2) He did the research as mafia, didn't like what he found, and dropped the case to avoid calling me town 3) He is a lazy scum player who didn't want to go after me at a point where several players are calling me town If rayn thought that I was looking decently townie otherwise, then maybe I'd consider number one. The biggest issue that I have right now is that as far as I can tell, I am rayn's number one scum suspect. He is pushing slam for being anti-town and shows that he may have reconsidered his read on tehpoofer, yet not a word about myself. rayn describes his play best. I don't think you can argue that he isn't being lazy here. rayn was given the pieces of the puzzle to solve and he chose not to because he "doesn't care". This line of thought is pretty terrible. He explains his willingness to vote for hopelessness over a minor observation about hope a few hours into the game. Not only does he not consider that foolishness could be wrong, he is using the justification for the vote because he respects foolishness as a player, not because he thinks its a valid argument. He even goes as far as dropping his suspicion of myself due to my interaction with hope. rayn states that he has done the most scum hunting in the game hands down, he suggests that I am his number one scum read, and he hasn't showed any attempt to figure out my alignment. As he mentioned earlier, he is trying to force the pieces in the wrong order. The one thing holding me up is 1) His mass claim policy is consistent with his previous behavior as town 2) Slam is one of the most anti-town players in recent memory Right now I'd probably be leaning towards a rayn lynch and hopefully having a vig take care of slam so he is removed as a discussion topic. I would like to look at a few more individuals before I finalize my vote. Hopeless, what do you think of the points JJD brings here on kita? | ||
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Kita said he was setting up a trap, that was an explanation delivered after a post where he treated rayn as if he didn't get a scummy feedback from his trap, saying he found you and slam more interesting. So I don't see how you can disagree about the retconning simply stating what kita's intention were, cause it completely misses the point of what JJD was showing. | ||
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JJD if you could care to answer to hopeless' version of events in stead of kita's it would be appreciated. Also give opinions on how you wanna use the nuke plz. You should really fire it on kaslam. | ||
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Then I don't get why you would claim. | ||
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On April 03 2014 05:11 kushm4sta wrote: k u can tell us now. u scum? What's this going to be? If scum assumes you aren't just 1-shot they convert you and have a vig. Had you thought a little more you would have said you were one-shot. But maybe you want to be converted, fuck knows. I for one know that past this day you will have to use your powers much more in accordance with town as to get away that possibility, ie vigs out of the blue or stuff like that are a reason to lynch you. | ||
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On April 03 2014 05:55 Djodref wrote: Kush is totally not to blame here. Gumshoe didn't participate at all and suddenly he claims while using a fakeclaim with kush's name. He was caught lying and even yourself ended up wanting to lynch him. How can you reproach kush to have vigged gumshoe ? You wanted to get rid of him ?? I'm not reproaching him for shooting gum. I'm saying he should have claimed to be 1-shot vig to be a less attractive target for converters. | ||
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On April 03 2014 06:06 kushm4sta wrote: It looks like vivax is trying to lay the foundation for a future scum read on me I figure you could be converted for your role so yeah, that's a pretty accurate description of what could happen if I see you not using it in town's favor. | ||
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On April 03 2014 06:17 Djodref wrote: Hey guyz ! What do you think about Toad ? Would you consider lynching him today ? Rather not atm, what do you think about what he posted on thrawn here? On April 01 2014 04:27 Toadesstern wrote: I wouldn't mind lynching thrawn just for that post to be honest. Not that I have any power to get someone lynched in the first place. I still feel good about the rayn lynch as in I think he's mafia but I do have some lingering fears and this post is exactly what it's feeling like, which also is the reason I'd still prefere the hopeless lynch. Thrawn saying rayn is 100% certain town, saying that kita should be mafia because of that in any normal situation but isn't in this because it makes sense in this situation according to him despite being 100% certain himself that rayn is town right now. Imo looks like someone setting himself up for next cycle which is what I meant with I'm scared. Could be paranoia but I really don't think that's something a town-thrawn would be posting. At all. | ||
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On April 03 2014 06:23 Amiko wrote: I know my earlier post was mostly put to the side since things were happening related to gumshoe, but if anyone has comments on it let me know. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21109993 One thing that may be easy to address- -- N1 Target Also, to be honest I am a little confused at the idea I would be a n1 kill target. Of the players in this game, I think I have the least experience. I don't think I came out with any super strong reads d1. Compared with other players who claimed blue or strongly hinted at it, I either didn't claim blue or, when I did, no one in the thread seemed to notice or comment on it (there was some discussion with JJD but that was D2). Further, there was some indication I get a night action from my interaction with gumshoe. So... I'm not too sure why I would be a d1 kill target. I mean, I don't see a particularly good regular reason or WIFOM reason to kill me n1 (I am honored though ~). I'll try to review my own filter when I get home and see if anything seems significant. There could be a hundred different reasons to why there wasn't a NK so I'd prefer if you talked about possible scummers rather than reviewing your own filter rofl. | ||
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On April 03 2014 06:30 Amiko wrote: wait... @kushm4sta: I think you are cleared green, but I would like answers to the following if you are willing: - You have a vote affecting power and a one-shot vig power? - If you had one-shot vig power, did you consider shooting Alakaslam / someone else yesterday? Oh snap, didn't think of that, why do you call him cleared green when you caught up that notion though? It does make me feel less sure about his claim. | ||
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On April 03 2014 06:42 Hopeless1der wrote: Ignore kush for the moment. Your thoughts on Toad? I prefer to focus on your thoughts, as in, if you think Toad is lynch-worthy then you shouldn't be asking me questions about him but rather trying to lynch him? Anyway, I wanna go over the bits you posted with you. On April 03 2014 05:37 Hopeless1der wrote: **MOD RELATED DISCUSSION** 1) invoking foolishness I find completely unfair, especially as I am the target. This seems to be a huge factor in rayn not giving a shit and yet Toad is still alive and not doing that much. He also mentioned that he disagreed with foolish on how to read slam. It seems that Toad actually had a conversation with foolish about this game. ----- Actual Scumhunty things: 2) In light of the above, Toad accuses rayn of "knowing he's town" (i.e. Toad is telling the truth therefore he must be town). He also notes that Kita is obv town at a time when it didnt seem like a very reliable read and that rayn was "to watch". 3) Completely hung up on Thrawn supposedly having a 100% townread on rayn. I dont think thrawn was that confident, nor is it thrawns responsibility to save rayn. Furthermore, any time anyone brings up ANYTHING else, Toad's default response is 'dunno, havent read that" 4) Who really thought Toad would have been a decent bluesnipe? I do not. 4a)Perhaps he was trying to cover for the fact that gumshoe hero-docced amiko? (Complete conjecture) ad 2) Can you point it out cause I couldn't find that accusation in Toad's filter. ad 3) If you read carefully you see it's not about thrawn just having a townread. Toad's main concern is that thrawn feels like saying first: "Hey, this guy is posting bullshit on a supertownie" and then he says "but I wouldn't lynch him cause of that because he went for strange trap play". Rehashing Toad's point, thrawn WOULD have considered a bad case on rayn lynch-worthy on its own, but he didn't scumread kita cause of his trap play. in Toad's own words: the part that you should not be talking about because it's nonsense unless you know peoples alignment and even given that you still end up with a kind of null on Kita, at the very least not a strong read, so it should be even less of a thing to be worth saying instead of talking about the important things like why rayn should not have been lynched. Kita wasn't about to be lynched, there's no need to "defend" him if you consider that a semi-town read. | ||
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On April 03 2014 07:07 Hopeless1der wrote: 2) 3) Player K makes "bad" case on townread R. Thrawn is suspicious of K (reasonable). Thrawn thinks "bad" case is scummy. (reasonable). Thrawn assesses the relationship between "bad" and A, concludes A is not that scummy for "bad". Moves on to actual preferred lynch G. I don't see a huge scumread jumping out at me there. Now that you've shown me point 2 I don't even know what that's supposed to tell us. Wtf is this supposed to prove? You make observations about what Toad says, no conclusion. 2) In light of the above, Toad accuses rayn of "knowing he's town" (i.e. Toad is telling the truth therefore he must be town). He also notes that Kita is obv town at a time when it didnt seem like a very reliable read and that rayn was "to watch" Ad 3 ) You misread/misrepresented/ignored, now you give the opinion on what actually happened (and not what you said was Toad's point, being hung up on rayn 100%). I just corrected what you said there, and what comes out is another defense of thrawn. You defend thrawn for that reasoning. A reasoning which is in polar opposition to yours since you actually sheeped the case he found bad, hence I have a hard time figuring out why you seem to townread thrawn so easily when he's not in the same mindset as you when you saw kita's case. I point out the mistake, as answer comes a defense of thrawn. TOAD, hopeless. What's the whole deal with Toad here? All these points are supposed to show he's scum, right? What is your objective, proving he's scum or proving that his arguments are bad?# scummeter rising | ||
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On April 03 2014 08:08 Djodref wrote: What about my arguments then ? Hopeless has been Toad's scumread but... Toad didn't push Hopeless lynch D1. Toad forgot about Hopeless since rayn's lynch. Toad is barely playing. Toad doesn't have a vote. Or maybe kush stole his vote. All arguments I see as of now against him are 1. activity 2. he didn't push hopeless enough for your liking 3. some conclusion-less observations from hopeless which are more about his arguments on others rather than why he should be scum Until he gets in here and goes through my hermeneutic endless circle of being questioned to death until I'm satisfied I'm not scumreading him for that. | ||
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On April 03 2014 05:18 Hopeless1der wrote: I cant fathom wtf gumshoe was thinking. Whatever, kush confirmed town imo, amiko is pretty goddamn likely town. i'd like to lynch JJD or Toad. Toad because he keeps saying stuff like "i havent read that yet" but he's all up in thrawns grill for his read on rayn. On April 03 2014 08:14 Hopeless1der wrote: I wasnt making a case, I was talking more about things I found interesting about Toad. Do you think I dont realize I didn't reach a conclusion? All of my points are pretty open-ended statements, more of a summary of things Toad has done that I maybe find scummy but didn't explicitly say that. Dude what. You wanna lynch him first and now you backtrack. What was the point of mentioning all that stuff on the guy you wanted to lynch if it was more like "stuff I found interesting about Toad maybe I think it's scummy but I didn't say so". | ||
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On April 03 2014 08:52 Hopeless1der wrote: Why are you pissing about with setup speculation JJD? Do you have a point here? Am I scum because I obviously have a fakeclaim that I wont reveal and you dont therefore you must be town? Stop beating around the bush. Vivax, why is it okay for you to keep flipping the question when I ask you about Toad? Not EVERYTHING I do needs to push my agenda. I dont like cramming a case/reads down peoples throats. I think Toad is scummy. People think I am scummy. It doesnt matter that people are less retarded than we'd like to believe, logical fallacies will occur. If I phrase a statement without implying a conclusion it forces the reader to try to determine what my point is and also whether that point is more relevant to a scum or town mindset. I answered what I think of lynching Toad for now. I'm more concerned about the way you try to stay in the sidelines like during D1. Posting points supposed to let Toad look bad and when confronted with it say contradictory things about your read on him AND not explain what those points were supposed to prove (nothing cause there is no conclusion to be gained from them) are further things I am viewing as scummy in your current play. | ||
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On April 03 2014 08:57 Djodref wrote: I'm going to sleep soon guyz, but I'll be here for 10 minutes before heading to bed (actually I'm already on my bed). Anything you wanna ask, please do it now. Please pressure Toad if he pops up in the thread when you are around. Please nuke Slam. Yeah, may I ask if you get what my beef is with hopeless' play or am I just seeing things?Did you form a read on him yet? | ||
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On April 03 2014 10:49 kushm4sta wrote: vivax why are you interested in kitaman's interest in hopeless' read on you? Cause the question like it is doesn't say anything about what kita thinks or what he wants to achieve with it? | ||
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On April 02 2014 06:09 Toadesstern wrote: well I was untargetable last night, that's why On April 03 2014 17:55 Toadesstern wrote: also if there's people defending me you should probably take a look at that. I haven't really done anything scummy or townish this game so there shouldn't be a reason to call me mafia OR town on anything I've done in this game. A new guy might come to the conclusion that lack of activity might be a trait either way when it's obviously not because I'm posting a lot more when I'm mafia than when I'm town but not everyone has played a lot of games with me considering I haven't played a lot in in the last 12 months or so. So if there's someone telling you I'm looking townish based on my posts that might be a bullshit mafia trying to look good afterwards. The only real reason to defend me would be the fact that I there's shots missing n1 and the fact that I got protected. Can you expand on the protection please? | ||
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On April 03 2014 17:51 Toadesstern wrote: yeah sorry guys I don't really have the time to read this week... Did someone claim being shot and protected besides me? Because with no kills on n1 I don't even know why someone would consider lynching me right now despite not playing the game. Reads haven't really changed for me, still the same, add in whoever gave that nuke to JarJar because he didn't give it to someone like Kita / hopeless / austin / myself, which makes it highly likely that the intention of the nuke was to just get someone nuked instead of an aimed hit. Looked a lot like a gundealer giving a gun to some new guy / some guy with wrong reads so that they shoot a townie instead of someone from team mafia having to dirty their hands. If someone claimed giving that nuke away, that guy probably should be lynched. I have to vote today as well so I'll put it on hopeless, still want him dead ##vote hopeless Might wanna lynch Toad now cause he drops in saying he wants to lynch hope without giving a single reason as to why he's scum, and on top of that knowing his vote doesn't even count. You can say you're busy all you want but if you spend your time talking about not-your-scumread then I see that as not caring much about the game which is a rather not-town trait. I have extensively questioned hopeless, need your updated opinion on the exchange, JJD and me both raised up multiple points. How do you agree/disagree with them? Need any reason for you to still think hopeless is scum. Something conclusive for you to leave with your not-vote. | ||
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The biggest problem that I have with Vivax is his inconsistency between post 1 and 2. In the first post, he goes after Rayn for the easy slam lynch stating that slam should be dealt with at some point in the future, while trying to lynch mafia instead. I agree with that point and think it's generally good policy. Mid way through the day, he suggests that Slam could be a traitor and that he was willing to support a slam lynch, not necessarily because slam was mafia, but because it was a possibility that he was mafia. By the end of the day, Vivax wants to lynch slam to postpone a rayn lynch for another day. Here is what I find scummy. I would expect a townie to follow this path of logic: 1) We should lynch mafia, rather than slam day one 2) Slam needs to be killed at some point to remove doubt, but lets see if I can find a likely mafia instead 3) rayn isn't the best lynch today, but player X is and this is why This is Vivax's path: 1) We should lynch mafia, rather than slam day one 2) Slam needs to be killed at some point to remove doubt 3) rayn isn't the best lynch today, so I guess we have no choice but to lynch slam I don't have a huge issue with Vivax wanting to not lynch rayn, but I do have an issue with the fact that he don't attempt to pursue a player that he thinks is scum. He says that he is working on things one by one, but in the end nothing comes of it. Sure, he questions thinks he finds suspicious and asks for opinions, but there is no follow up or statements attempting to convince others to lynch a certain player, rather than the settle vote at the end, which is what he was criticizing to begin with. D1 I didn't have any strong scumreads to go after, all I knew is that I didn't want to lynch rayn D1 albeit finding some stuff about him scummy, and especially didn't want to after his role claim, and that slam could be anything and wasn't helping town, but spamming the thread. So, in summary he would have been a safe lynch as opposed to somebody like rayn. Sure, I criticized rayn for telling us to lynch him and call it a day, but that was early in the day so it didn't make much sense to agree on a lynch and not do anything else D1, it's not that much about lynching scum it's about hunting it which town won't do properly if a 3p claim lynch is on the table and stays there throughout the day. If Vivax argues that he was completely stumped on day one, had absolutely no mafia reads, and wanted more time to find a mafia player, I really don't like his nuke preference. He criticizes rayn for going for the easy target and calling it a day, while deciding not to suggest that the nuke be fired at a scum suspect on day two. He essentially settles two cycles in a row without indicating that he actually has a strong mafia read on slam, aside from cult speculation, which is more of a guess at a possibility than anything. Why don't you like my nuke preference? Assume Kaslam didn't claim, didn't do anything of the sort. Assume he simply stood there, posted bullshit and spammed the thread without a claim. That's Kaslam as we have him and independently of his claim he is somebody who should be vigged for his play alone. Lots of people justified voting rayn (maybe even you have to check) saying "lynch mafia not 3p". That's where I came in play saying Kaslam could be anything, from traitor to survivor to scum fakeclaiming, I couldn't get why people simply went with that claim and lynched rayn. And on top of that, the bullshit posters' claim looked legit to you but rayn's didn't? Stuff like this doesn't really seem like a mindset that he is thinking about things from a town perspective. Like toad claims to have a vote, kush claims to have two votes, so for kush to steal toad's vote, that would mean both toad and kush are lying/buddies, which doesn't even make sense. His argument with hope today does seem like it makes a hope/vivax pair unlikely, which makes me worried about who else I'm overlooking. I do want to evaluate hope a bit more in depth before deciding between the two/others, but right now I'm leaning mafia. It was pure speculation, a vote stealer role was also in personality mafia 2 I think so I figured kush=extra vote, Toad=lack of vote -> kush maybe stole it and wrote it down without much thought behind it. It's not like you can say I had any malicious intentions with that post do you? Or do you think I used that post to push a scummy idea on the two of them? Well no I didn't and that should be evident. | ||
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On April 04 2014 01:36 kushm4sta wrote: Vivax you have been subtly pushing the idea that 1. I'm scum for a very long time. Also the idea that 2. I will probably become scum in the future. Here you are trying to discredit my claim in a way that makes absolutely no sense. 1. possible 2. possible 3. not discrediting anything, just speculating on...possibilities You and kita on the other hand both pushed rayn and now both push me so I'll have to reevaluate some things cause I can't imagine kita being this bad as town, although for you it's perfectly possible. | ||
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On April 04 2014 01:45 kitaman27 wrote: So to be clear, you thought my case on rayn was valid yesterday, but today you can't imagine me being this bad as town, even though you agreed with me? Yea precisely, especially cause of the push on me, I saw you hunting me when I was scum and it wasn't like this, gut wise. I know you are a good scumhunter and I feel like I'm not up against a scumhunter here, I'm simply up against a guy who decided for some reason he wants to lynch me but doesn't otherwise seem interested in what I have to say (like kush and tehpoofter though). I want to add a few more reasons. I ACTUALLY asked you for your points on hopeless cause I noticed that in your case you said that what I did was "pointless" or something like that, yet hopeless is among your scumreads. Hence I felt kinda offended at first, cause hopeless is a guy who doesn't post much on his own and I figured yo uwould have found me getting information out of him useful, yet you prefer to give a negative overall summary of my play. So basically I wanted to see if your points on hopeless were related to the answers I pulled out of him, and confront you with the fact that you called my play useless. Now I'm kinda sure you're scum cause you don't reply to my defense, but pop out once you spot something that could be construed as scummy. You don't question hopeless about anything but call him scum and the information I got from him useless. Accusatory, not inquisitive. Judgmental but not considerate. Those are the words I would describe your play with right now. And they are scumtraits imo. So yeah, I think I'll actually go for a vote on you. | ||
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On April 01 2014 06:07 Crossfire99 wrote: Vote Count raynpelikoneet (6) - Alakaslam (3) - Hopeless1der (0) - kitaman27 (0) - gumshoe (3) - Tehpoofter (1) - austinmcc JarJarDrinks (0) - thrawn2112 (0) - Toadesstern (0) - Not Voting (1) - gumshoe raynpelikoneet is lynched! Let me know if I made a mistake or anything. Current vote count on me: Hopeless, kita, kush, TehPoofter Oh look they were also on the rayn wagon yesterday. | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:04 kitaman27 wrote: lol, so you tell me not to reply to your defense until I'm done looking at hopeless and then when I'm in the process of doing so, you attack me for not responding, saying it makes me scum? You even assume that I've chosen you over hope when I haven't indicated one way or the other. What gives? I was waiting for you to comment on hopeless, but seeing you got immediately hung up on soemthing that could be construed as scummy, I felt like I had to jump in and finally let out what I was thinking about you instead of keeping back until I saw what you would write about hope. That really gave me super bad vibes cause yo uhave 1 post where I respond to your points, one post where I ask for your stuff on hope, and 1 where I replied to kush saying I have to reevaluate you both cause I can't imagine you being so bad. Of all three, you chose the most offensive path to reply to me, picking the latest post trying to further incriminate me while completely skipping comments on my defense. That reads as scum trying to push a mislynch, not figuring out what i'm up to. Even if I asked you to comment on hopeless first you didn't have to give me that courtesy if you felt that my defense against your case was bad. Which brings us to that. Try to reevaluate things in light of what I've said in my defense and post your points on hopeless and then we can see what's left to say to the points you skipped (either cause you accepted my request out of courtesy or willingly). | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:17 Hopeless1der wrote: Hey Kita...have you made a case on me recently that I havent seen? No, he never asks you a question but thinks you are worthy of today's lynch. | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:19 Hopeless1der wrote: Okay well... something is amiss here You asked kita, not amiko. Something is amiss up there. | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:23 kitaman27 wrote: lol I asked exactly that. Are you reading or just getting angry? Yeah you just did I was still writing. Congratz on your first question to your scumread. WEEEEEEE | ||
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On April 04 2014 02:24 Hopeless1der wrote: Mostly survival. I didn't like the way Vivax was assaulting me with questions and seeming completely oblivious to how my explanations could come from town. It didnt feel like he was trying to reconsider, he was trying to bury me or catch me slip up. However, I'm concerned about Amiko now despite gumshoes save. Whatever, I'd still prefer to lynch Toad. here: ##Unvote: Vivax ##Vote: Toadesstern I can't bury you with questions, I can bury you with cases. And having scum slip up is exactly the point of prodding them for information, so I don't see how you thought those points made me scum. I did reconsider here and there, just not always telling it to the thread. For example the way you refused to give JJD role details read townie to me, after all he was the guy with a nuke, and you'd have to be ballsy scum to piss him off This reasoning obviously isn't applicable if the nuke is a dud and you knew it so w/e. I'd rather lynch kita over you right now cause you're a damn riddle to solve and I wanna see if Slam gets blown to pieces. Still I can't be friends with the way you approach lynches. It's always enigmatic and you don't like to talk much about your reasoning (or have no proper one, which is potentially scummy, ie I have to dig to find out what you were thinking, which I did, and will keep doing while I'm alive and think it's necessary). | ||
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Also I would like to know when hopeless found out that everybody has fakeclaims, and if you actually knew that too when you confronted hopeless. Need to know this stuff cause I was preparing a post on something hopeless said but I need this info to be sure I make a valid argument and if somebody could provide it out of his memory it would be appreciated. I'm currently pretty tired and kinda slow at reading but depending on how the facts turn out to be this could look pretty bad for hopeless. | ||
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Hey kita, apologies for missing your quesitons there but I got a little heated and missed em. Anyway to have a nice showcase of some of the stuff you produced on hopeless along with others I'll have this post list even though I want to focus on two mainly. Read the bolded part, scroll down to last quote. On April 03 2014 08:52 Hopeless1der wrote: Why are you pissing about with setup speculation JJD? Do you have a point here? Am I scum because I obviously have a fakeclaim that I wont reveal and you dont therefore you must be town? Stop beating around the bush. Vivax, why is it okay for you to keep flipping the question when I ask you about Toad? Not EVERYTHING I do needs to push my agenda. I dont like cramming a case/reads down peoples throats. I think Toad is scummy. People think I am scummy. It doesnt matter that people are less retarded than we'd like to believe, logical fallacies will occur. If I phrase a statement without implying a conclusion it forces the reader to try to determine what my point is and also whether that point is more relevant to a scum or town mindset. On April 03 2014 10:20 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm biased...I havent been reading him critically because he's been a pain in my ass in recent memory. If you want me to OMGUS him, I can do that but I dont think it'd be productive. On April 04 2014 01:51 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Vote: Vivax On April 04 2014 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote: Opportunistic posturing. I'm not trying to avoid responsibility for my vote but I am not all that confident that I am able to read Vivax, I'm mostly sheeping thread sentiment. People seem less inclined to vote Toad which means its between me/Vivax. My choice would be to lynch Toad if I get the chance. On April 04 2014 02:24 Hopeless1der wrote: Mostly survival. I didn't like the way Vivax was assaulting me with questions and seeming completely oblivious to how my explanations could come from town. It didnt feel like he was trying to reconsider, he was trying to bury me or catch me slip up. However, I'm concerned about Amiko now despite gumshoes save. Whatever, I'd still prefer to lynch Toad. here: ##Unvote: Vivax ##Vote: Toadesstern Look at the bolded part in the first quote. Now look at this post: On April 04 2014 03:22 Hopeless1der wrote: Sorry forgot about this. I was hoping someone would call me out for the reasons you stated because they'd likely be town, knowing blues didnt get fakeclaims to start with. I havent reviewed the thread at that point yet to see if anyone might have been thinking that. Hopeless asks him earlier if he was town knowing that blues don't have fakeclaims. But if you look at the tone of the post it isn't at all like hopeless "towntrap" just sprung (if anything it was a bluetrap), he's asking JJD why the hell he's on him. Later he says he was WAITING for someone to do that. JJD didn't outright say that he didn't have a fakeclaim at that point, but it's evident from hopeless first post that he was expecting it to be the case. OP says everyone can get a fakeclaim on request. Hopeless doesn't initially want to say if he has one or not, JJD fries him over it, Hopeless asks him wtf his problem is (is it cause you have no fakeclaim and I have?). Hopeless later says he was hoping for someone to call him out for that cause he would townread him. JJD did call him out for it. Did hopeless say "wow bro u so town(also thanks for claiming blue to the thread)" to him? Nope. So i'd like to hear some about this 1. | ||
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Anyway, what did we discuss so far. Me, Toad, Kita, hopeless? Some other players I kinda see as possible scum candidates are thrawn and maybe poofter so it might not be a bad idea to have a look at them and exchange some thoughts. They both seem to not be here sadly. But let's leave no stone unturned before the day ends I don't like how kush treats me this game but he claimed blue and shot gumshoe so he'd be a bad lynch for today I figure. Given conversion mechanics we gotta pay attention to people who claimed a role though (for the future). (No kush I'm not subtly calling you scummy -.-) | ||
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Hopeless admits blue, you ask him about fakeclaims. He says he won't tell and that he wonders why you're asking him this (is it cause you're blue and have no fakeclaim) Now I don't know who of you knew about the fakeclaim requesting stuff, which changes the interpretation of events in some way. you knew it, he knew it - nope, why would he refuse to tell you he has one if it's public knowledge that anyone can. you knew it, he didn't - etc. Anyway, considering how he didn't want to tell it's pretty obvious he didn't know it, but he probably justified it in some way? This is confusing I'll go reread. | ||
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I'm frantically trying to find reasons for not lynching him cause I'm scared of the blue claim. | ||
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Hopeless claim the rolename of A and probably shit bricks. | ||
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And how did you get the conclusion that I'm mafia from that information? | ||
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WEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEE can we postpone role discussion to night phase when time isn't so short and discuss today's lynch? Who Toad, who Kita, who anyone else. Toad is essentially a non-existent townie, he talks, says he can make himself ethereal at night, but doesn't have a vote. Go figure. Kita tried to push a mislynch on me quite aggressively before some other dudes came in and defended me valiantly + other points blah blah. Essentially I don't have a preference between the two but on a tie I'll probably go onto Toad for purposes of damage mitigation in case we mislynch. Not really a problem if we lose a guy who can't vote and is invulnerable and maybe mafia. | ||
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I think we can discuss the order in which people should claim during this night and whatever other stuff. | ||
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Toad mentioned this post earlier to argue he's mafia: On April 01 2014 04:22 thrawn2112 wrote: hey guys, fyi i wont be here till 30 min before deadline i will say that i have read the thread and i'm not impressed with the push to lynch rayn but i'm not really willing lynch kita for it. usually weird trap plays that don't seem to make too much sense come from town, and that is enough for me to ignore kita's bad case against rayn. as stated before i am soooo down to lynch a lurker. i notived some people mentioning gumshoe and i'm perfectly fine with that Thrawn at this point had asked kita some stuff, then townread him, then said he got feelings that he could be mafia, then when rayn's lynch approaches he argues saying he WOULD lynch kita for the push on rayn, which as Toad already said is dumb when you don't know alignments, but he doesn't cause of the trap play. I checked the post where kita explains his trap and the base upon which thrawn townreads him, but I still want to hear what thrawn's reasoning was for scumreading him before that post. Anyway reading more on thrawn but he deserves a closer look. I also don't get how he got to wanting to lynch kita and Toad yesterday. No reasons given. Only "I would" | ||
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Not damning, but close to the pattern of scum knowing Kasla's claim was real. On March 30 2014 14:03 kushm4sta wrote: So slam is either 1. survivor 2. scum lying about being survivor im inclined to believe 1, knowing how alaka approaches playing scum. unvote On March 31 2014 02:04 kushm4sta wrote: ryan furthermore you continue to push a lynch on a claimed survivor because "he's not town." I cannot understand this stance at all. It is not good play to lynch a survivor d1 and you know that. And you are pushing this survivor lynch in lieu of scumhunting. As town you are primarily concerned with figuring out who scum are, which im not seeing this game. | ||
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On April 05 2014 04:09 JarJarDrinks wrote: @People saying kush is possible scum: Explain how he knew gumshoe was lying? The only way it's possibly for Kush to be scum is if he was converted. No, I think scum might have rolenames like the other blues, just more scum oriented powers. Not cyberman leader or shit like that. If scum sees you fakeclaiming with their own rolename they get the justification to shoot you if they're a dayvig in that case. In the resolution period or during the day I would like thrawn and kita to claim first. They will probably only comply if enough pressure is given. | ||
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On April 05 2014 04:29 thrawn2112 wrote: i only held that opinion at the exact time I made that post. iirc i unvoted kita pretty quickly Reason?= | ||
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On March 31 2014 01:03 Amiko wrote: [/i]If someone dies in the game, does the flip reveal their current role or any role history / alignment change the player had? If you won't answer that's ok. Massclaim My answer is no - I don't see many (any?) advantages for this in a closed setup. If it was a serious suggestion then I'm wiling to talk about it, though, and it looks like we are both on. Other Questions @anyone what is LHF? @kitaman27 I don’t see your original vote on thrawn2112 as scummy, but can you explain why you initially withheld your reasons for voting for thrawn (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21085439)? On March 31 2014 01:31 Amiko wrote: [u]LHF “LHF” It was from a slam post here- Re: voting - I’m considering voting slam - I was rereading him (and saw LHF). I don’t want to vote Slam right now, though: there’s over a day left, slam is already getting pressured, and I’d rather lynch scum than 3rd party survivor. Massclaim I agree with the first sentence. I don’t know all the Dr. Who lore but even light wiki + the game description suggests cybermen/scum can probably convert targets to become cybermen/scum. I don’t see how massclaiming helps us, though. In an open setup, it immediately gives you pools of people to vote for – if two people claim cop, then you know one is lying. If more people claim VT than can be VT, you have a nice pool of people to lynch from and may confirm some of your power roles. In a closed setup, though, I am not sure how that is effective. - People can fabricate all sorts of weird roles that may be real given the expansive dr. who universe; - We are likely to lose power roles to at least two non-town parties (dalek/cybermen), maybe more; - If a lot of people just claim VT, we don’t have a heuristic to determine how many VTs there can be - Even if someone feels confirmed due to being the only one to claim a likely role (ex: Dr. Who/Amy/Rory/River who appear in xatalos’ post) the person doesn’t stay trustworthy because there are conversions. So, I feel like we don’t gain anything from a massclaim. If I am wrong explain why. If there is a heavily flavored closed setups thread with a massclaim, I'm willing to skim it and reevaluate. On April 05 2014 03:56 Amiko wrote: JJD: I don't really know what to make of the hopeless comment. I thought I caught him in something, and maybe I did, but I don't know for sure. He became a central point of attention for me and I think my reads shifted n2 largely because of that. Hopeless' claimed role is not useless at all from my point of view. If you feel differently let me know and I'll give some examples. I still don't like that he presented his checks initially as knowing that Rose visited his target when I feel like that's not a fair assumption to make. But, I agree... I don't think it can make him scum unless it's part of a more elaborate plan where you two confirm each other. It's possible but it feels too remote. I've raised massclaiming repeatedly for two purposes. One, I think it's a better idea as the game goes on. I'll claim tonight, probably just before night ends. Second, I thought mentioning massclaims would be an innocuous way to probe to see whether players were changing their minds. Converted players probably have to keep their reads somewhat consistent, but I figured they may be more likely to be open to massclaims. As an aside, Kita was consistent. But, I still think he could be a cyberman/scum. Amiko just out of curiosity, what made you change your mind on massclaiming? | ||
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On April 05 2014 04:34 austinmcc wrote: You were on kita with ~30 to go. Posted you'd lynch kita or toad. Swapped to toad 1 minute after that, with 32 minutes til lynch (in voting thread, no mention in main thread) So you made the vote RIGHT AFTER SAYING YOU WANTED TO LYNCH KITA And right before this you'd said kita was wrong on vivax, should be scumreading everyone based on his vivax logic, so you SHOULD be scummy on kita. And now you're not sure about kita, when yesterday you were kita/toad, and toad was town, and kita hasn't really done anything, and this does not particularly make sense. Wow | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:07 austinmcc wrote: WRONG DOCTOR KITA ? | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:13 kitaman27 wrote: My biggest fear is that there is a 2nd third party doctor hunter or something -_- Why 3p and not scum? | ||
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On April 04 2014 05:14 Hopeless1der wrote: I didnt, it was completely selfish information mongering. I was hoping to get you to claim who you targetted if you were liable to be lynched. He's claiming that all he did in regards to me was to have me claim my target. But then there are posts like this where he suggests I'm scummy: On April 03 2014 03:47 Hopeless1der wrote: vivax are you scum with jjd? 2-I found Vivax to be asking a lot of questions and refusing to put up his own discussion. Since the game opened I feel like he's been casually painting me scum, but someone (maybe you or thrawn) said that the fact that he's doing stuff instead of not doing stuff probably points to him being town, so I kind of disregarded him. However i think his questions are really open-ended and basically kush hits things pretty square with this conversation: On April 03 2014 13:30 Hopeless1der wrote: Re: response to kita -> kush 1-I think you mean Vivax 2-I found Vivax to be asking a lot of questions and refusing to put up his own discussion. Since the game opened I feel like he's been casually painting me scum, but someone (maybe you or thrawn) said that the fact that he's doing stuff instead of not doing stuff probably points to him being town, so I kind of disregarded him. However i think his questions are really open-ended and basically kush hits things pretty square with this conversation: It feels like Vivax is just quoting stuff and asking different people "and how does that make you feel?" like he's some glorified therapist. | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:35 austinmcc wrote: I'm curious about your lack of...concern over JJD earlier. You didn't really question his loyalty to the town cause, despite seeing missing KP and finding out he also targeted me. I thought he looked townie, I don't know if scum KP is factional, he claimed to be Rose in a case where if he was scum he would know who was the NK target and would know that you were a hypothetical target I hypothetically saved. | ||
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Does hopeless now latch onto a random night action role as watcher? | ||
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2 protective roles make sense if they also have a vig type of role. That's where kush comes in. | ||
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On April 05 2014 06:22 Hopeless1der wrote: Not that its worth anything, but I can confirm that JJD and Austin's claim match my check: Can you post the exact message please. | ||
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Nuke clearance granted. | ||
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On April 05 2014 06:26 Amiko wrote: I think the argument is: Vivax has said he jailed Austin, which would mean that Austin did not visit Kita. Oh fuck didn't think of this. Okay, nuke clearance is back. | ||
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"You are Craig Owens, friend and once roommate of the Doctor. You are a new father and are very protective of your son. Even with him to worry about, you still care about and are protective of others, though the way you do it might be a little excessive since your paternal instincts kick into overdrive. This gives you the ability to protect other people at night, but doing so also roleblocks them. (You are a jailkeeper). PM the name of your target to all hosts. You win with the Town." | ||
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I mentioned this in a previous post. | ||
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Btw I found the game where kita pushed me when I was scum and of which I mentioned earlier that I notice differences to this one in the way he pushes me and generally plays the game. I know it's in part subjective but it's the storngest impression I got of kita's town play. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/414632-roulette-mini-mafia?user=kitaman27&view=all | ||
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On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: lol you amuse me. But you have it backwards. I'm simply trying to gather the pieces for myself. The puzzle is mine to solve. As for your "web of disruption" post, it has a catchy name, but I'll respond once you come to an actual conclusion. thrawn is off my naughty list for the moment. People of interest: Tehpoofter seems to be asking questions that I don't find all that interesting. His initial vote of slam seems a bit forced. Amiko asking me or hope for the clarification doesn't seem scummy to me. We were probably just around. His lack of opinion and direction does appear scummy however. Hopeless with his "do i need to go through the motions of totes serious voting to get a response?" conveys a kind of "look at me doing someone" without actually coming to a conclusion other than that I'm useless slam...generally I try to ignore him and the last time I did so I believe he was mafia. Day one survivor claims are usually someone I would lynch, even if I thought they might be a survivor. My biggest worry is that he might be a trolly town who is willing to get lynched and doesn't care, but he wasn't willing to role claim when asked and shows signs of over frustration that doesn't appear genuine. I'll probably leave my vote on him, though we need to avoid the scenario where nobody is under pressure because the lynch is already decided. kush is someone who usually gets on my nerves early and hasn't done so yet, which is a concern. I seem to remember him playing mafia and acting completely reasonable, but I'll have to look back to familiarize myself with some of his more recent games. In my opinion, thrawn and hope both overreacted to the random vote, yet kush doesn't draw the same conclusion by only expressing suspicion of thrawn. If slam is a survivor, then kush being the first one to defend him may make sense as mafia if he knows his alignment. | ||
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On April 03 2014 20:07 Tehpoofter wrote: I'm around, sadly not converted as apparently we lost our shrink and doctor. That sucks gum played it like that with the name thing. I thought it was interesting kush can do the vote thing and shoot during the day that's a pretty strong town role imo. I think you pointed this out thrawn. I think scum is somewhere between Vivax, Hopeless, Toad.... Vivax for reasons I've stated. Toad because he's claiming to not have a vote that counts and he can't die at night that is like the tree stump role on epic mafia which is kinda useless and easy to claim as mafia (I have done it in video mafia on several occasions) cause you never have to explain why you're alive and you can no vote and absolve yourself of all responsibility. (I've been busy with work and other games so haven't had time to dive but have we confirmed Toad's vote doesn't count?) Hopeless - I believe austin had a case on hopeless where he was around at day end voting on rayn after the claim saying it seemed fake without a cc. I was around then too and had been hard on rayn all day and wanted to get my vote off him to someone else (ended up on the doctor whoops) but still not on the claimed role. Town for me is thrawn, kush, austin, amiko (tenatively cause of the heal and he seems to be piecing the game together) On April 04 2014 05:41 Tehpoofter wrote: bah this role claim stuff would happen while I'm commuting and starting work.... @DJO why do you think djo's role is maf sided? ##unvote ##vote kitaman I'm not convinced any of the roles have to be blue even toads but if town lynches a third straight blue we're pretty much SoL. I mean, he has me, Toad and hopeless as scumreads. When he comes back he votes kita when that vote doesn't have any effect, doesn't try to move people from Toad to him. And most of all he says he's not convinced that all roles have to be blue but that's the reason he doesn't want to lynch his former scumread. | ||
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On April 05 2014 09:17 Vivax wrote: Oh, and even better first he already believes Toad's claim and says the role is fake and can easily be claimed by mafia, then he uses that as reasoning to not vote for him. EBWOP: Better formulated, he says at first that the role is useless and can be easily claimed by mafia, then he says he doesn't want to lynch Toad cause a third blue loss is bad for town or something (while his role was useless anyway) | ||
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On April 05 2014 10:23 kushm4sta wrote: i got a scumometer What does it do again? | ||
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I suggest we have a discussion on who to use it. What itches me is that you read kita as hella town. | ||
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On April 05 2014 10:43 thrawn2112 wrote: why didn't you inform town that your vote was going to count twice on D1? He did -.- On another note I can see that being a town role so for now I'll roll with kush as town and guess at scum being kita/thrawn/poofter | ||
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On April 05 2014 10:47 thrawn2112 wrote: no he didn't and really? you think day vigs are town exclusive roles? | ||
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On April 05 2014 11:54 Tehpoofter wrote: As for kita I had him on my scum list on N1 and the start of day 1 I did list others as more suspicious but once claims started happening I decided lynching into any blues when we had already lost 2 (shrink/medic) wouldn't be good for town so I went on my top scumread outside the claims which was kita. I'd be interested in theories on the night kills we had 0 then 2. I know the "lovers" role is common on epic mafia I'm not sure how it plays in here but thats one option for the 2 kills. I thought I read something in one of the flavor bits that might have pointed to it but I need to reread closer. I'm glad more people gave reads last night than the night before hopefully we can keep an eye on that and see who goes shifting around. You said earlier that you thought Toad's role was useless for town anyway and can easily be fakeclaimed by scum, that would mean you magically changed your mind on Toad when he posted his whole PM, when actually the earlier post suggests it would be irrelevant. | ||
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On April 05 2014 12:25 thrawn2112 wrote: that's just stupid there is no way that if i think i've found mafia that I'm going to ignore that and REALLY austin. I wish there were players in this game that knew me, they would be able to tell you that I am the worst conversion target ever on the forum. This is the second time you say this. I was thinking whether I should see it as overdefensive but left it to null, on the other hand you are spending time defending yourself and don't wanna(?) talk about kita who was your scumread at least briefly. | ||
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On April 05 2014 12:37 thrawn2112 wrote: I already gave an answer to this. I think, objectively, town's best play is to use it on either myself or kita. Probably kita, because I have faith in my ability to not get mislynched. But objectively, considering the suspicions of everyone in the game right now, it is probably best for town to know thrawn and kita's alignments. and why not poofter???? | ||
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On April 05 2014 13:06 Amiko wrote: @austin http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21124179 I want your take on this pls The take is I jailed austin N1. Austin N2. Hopeless saw me jailing austin N1 cause JJD checked him, and saw no one visiting kita N2 after saying it was a host mistake that he saw me going to kita. Now I think it's kinda unfair to say things as if you received them from the host without official confirmation, it's like checking someone, getting a wrong result back and you say to the thread that it's the host's fault without the host chiming in, then it looks fishy and it's the host's fault. On the other hand scum saying something based on host action is also something I don't see as fair play. Given that hopeless used an argumentation that is based on a host mistake or is phrased like it came from a host I would consider it adequate for the hosts to give confirmation | ||
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Or they convert on odd nights and 2 kp on even, Toad's role had similar mechanics. | ||
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On April 05 2014 18:28 Vivax wrote: Come on kush, there must be more than just activity if he's mafia. On April 05 2014 18:37 kushm4sta wrote: he says townie shit d1. he doesn't say townie shit for the rest of the game. This reply gives me townie vibes cause it's surprisingly unsophisticated. Currently assuming that kita is mafia I think kush bussing would stretch out his posts more to talk about lynching his scumbuddy, for the credz and stuff and also cause he's under some pressure. My only fear is that kita comes back town cause of a godfather type of role. Too many of my scumspects asked for him to be checked for my taste. | ||
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On April 05 2014 08:03 Vivax wrote: Another thing I mentioned earlier is this post. I said it looked more like it was designed to look good and not hunt scum. Especially the "people of interest" part. Like, he mentions a fuckload of people doing potentially scummy things but doesn't move his attention to them afterwards, he prefers to stick to the rayn lynch. I would like to hear your other alternatives for mafia + reasons. If you don't get lynched today cause of that check I find hard to believe then I'm going for thrawn or poofter. What do you think of those? | ||
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Was scum simply on the rayn wagon D1, would it be that simple? | ||
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about kita having too much information.. since then i pretty much 180ed on that. It was how he said this game only has 1 or 2 scum, when i was approaching the game thinking there were 3 or 4. But in actuality, if kita were scum, he probably wouldn't have said that at all because he would be extra careful not to reveal he has too much information. Kush can you comment on this. You say "x does scummy thing. But if x were scum he wouldn't do scummy thing" . That is no proper reason. | ||
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Amiko and austin are supatown for me. Everyone else not so much, that means that among the remaining 5 people I can't eliminate from my scumreads there must be 3 scum (not more cause in case of 4 it would be gg already). kush hopeless kita thrawn poofter Going to spend the next hours going through all of them and trying to give a final verdict. | ||
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On March 30 2014 07:22 gumshoe wrote: I am the doctor, in two or less paragraphs tell me why you should be my next companion. Look at kita's filter after this happened, do you think it's plausible for someone to remain silent about gumshoe when you see him claiming your role??? | ||
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On April 01 2014 04:43 kitaman27 wrote: Do you think that this is the type of behavior you would expect from a mafia gumshoe? | ||
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On April 06 2014 08:06 thrawn2112 wrote: did you believe him? At the very least if I see somebody claiming my rolename I will ask him if that's a real claim. But kita remains completely disinterested. | ||
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you must give an invention to each alive player before giving a second invention to any player, you must give a second invention to each alive player before giving a third invention to any player Guys...The way I read this from Djo's role PM it looks to me like he should have given a nuke to every player before being able to give the scummeter to Kush. Am I reading this wrong or is it badly formulated? | ||
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On March 30 2014 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote: this is a lynch cycle...i can at least understand the slam lynch. This, not so much. On March 30 2014 06:25 Hopeless1der wrote: because the alternative means i need to be a dick to kita and i dont wanna do that right now. On March 30 2014 06:31 Hopeless1der wrote: whered you go kita? do i need to go through the motions of "totes serious voting" to get a response? This bit from Day 1 is kinda interesting. Hopeless starts by taking kita's vote semi-seriously saying "this is a lynch cycle" to make clear he doesn't understand that vote, and Thrawn asks why he would say that. What comes back is a response that is...not serious. When asked about it hopeless says he doesn't want to be a dick to kita (doesn't he want to call it scummy?). Next post he becomes serious and suggests that he would pressure kita to get a response. Implying he does find it suspicious. Then: On March 30 2014 06:39 Hopeless1der wrote: okay...kita is useless for the short-term. I'm headed out to dinner in a bit, so I'll see you guys later He doesn't get the answer. WHO CARES. Kita is useless he says. Kita calls it out (indirectly by asking rayn, makes sense if he thought rayn was possible scum). On March 30 2014 06:52 kitaman27 wrote: rayn do you think this is a reasonable response from a town hopeless based on my vote a few posts into the game? He asks rayn what he thinks of it. about 8 h later he tells what he thinks of it. On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: *snip* Hopeless with his "do i need to go through the motions of totes serious voting to get a response?" conveys a kind of "look at me doing someone" without actually coming to a conclusion other than that I'm useless *snip* Hopeless is in thread, kita doesn't go after him, at all. Likely relevant once kita flips scum. Next interaction analysis: Kita vs thrawn. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ On March 30 2014 06:39 thrawn2112 wrote: i'll join you kita but why are we voting rayn? On March 30 2014 10:15 kitaman27 wrote: Because I told him to and he obeyed. You'd agree that cybermen are less likely to have a spine, no? Also, you should vote for thrawn. On March 30 2014 10:19 thrawn2112 wrote: kita why di you vote for rayn? kita why did you tell me to vote for rayn? kita why did i vote for rayn kita why rayn why? On March 30 2014 11:00 kitaman27 wrote: I start most games out with a random vote. Why is this your biggest concern when I clearly voted for rayn at the point where he hardly even has a post? Are you unfamiliar with the concept or do you think that my vote had malicious intentions? On March 30 2014 12:33 kitaman27 wrote: Sheeping a vote is when a player makes a case, you agree with their argument without contributing anything, and you vote for the same player. This wasn't a sheep vote since I simply told you to vote and you complied. I'm not going to take your vote an hour into the game very seriously anyways, it's more the fact that you chose to take the opportunity to work with me and focus on my vote, rather than pushing anything else so far. Probably not. He clearly isn't aware, so why ask twice whether he should be expected? Doesn't seem very relevant to me. Observations:
Now, if I random vote and some guy joins me, and I don't take his vote seriously, and it's all shenannies, how do I jump to the conclusion that the guy could be scum? Cause he chose to work with me rather than pushing other stuff WHEN HIS VOTE WASN'T SERIOUS? Why do I tell that guy that I do that in almost every game implying that I'm reproaching him for not knowing that when it's all shenannies anyway? Why do I say that it's irrelevant if thrawn knows I do that after previously telling him that I do that? Kita calls thrawn scum for joining him. He joined him by voting, the vote wasn't serious. Thrawn asks wtf is going on. Kita says he does that every game, does thrawn think it was a malicious vote? THE VOTES WEREN'T SERIOUS. Poofter asks if thrawn should know if he does that every game, kita says probably not. It's irrelevant. Kita says he does that every game It's irrelevant if thrawn knows that. Now this is what I think happened. Kita emulated his play from shadow. Not only it causes confusion, it also is an imitation of his town play. He sees how his moves pan out and then calibrates his reads accordingly. He random votes, asks for somebody to join him (Which is a thing he doesn't mention as strategy in his huge explanation post where he makes his case on rayn, cause he townread thrawn after all of this for unknown reasons). So thrawn joins him, ASKS HIM WHY RAYN. Kita deduces: THIS DUDE IS SCUM CAUSE HE DOES WHAT I ASKED FOR AND NOT SOMETHING ELSE. His vote can't be taken seriously but this dude is scum, scum is placing a non serious vote and asking me why I do what I do. This must literally have been kita's reasoning. Then kita finally answers. "THRAWN I DO THAT MOST GAMES DO YOU THINK IT'S AN EVIL VOTE". What is out of place here is that kita uses that justification in a post where he plays back the ball to thrawn to probe if he's scum when he already decided he is cause he chose to work with him. He defends himself from his scumread, KNOWING that thrawn doesn't know that, telling Poofter that his question is irrelevant when the same matter was relevant to kita a few posts ago. I take this as kita indicating he was suspicious of Poofter for that ("Hey why you ask pointless questions"). Later: People of interest: Tehpoofter seems to be asking questions that I don't find all that interesting. His initial vote of slam seems a bit forced. I don't have a mega slip here, but what I have is the strong feeling that kita's reads at this stage were fake cause the reasoning he uses and the way he responds to his scumreads is not something I would expect from a townie, and I hope you get the same feeling. The big post where he mentions multiple suspects to then later PUSH ONLY RAYN BASED ON THE TRAP POST. The way he stops going after hopeless until D2 when he's being discusses for lynch. The way he defends from thrawn and the arguments he uses against him. What I can tell from this once kita flips scum is that thrawn is town or at the very last was town during D1 cause scum wouldn't go overdefensive and overaccusatory like kita did if thrawn wasn't his buddy. | ||
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Looks like I got faster fingers kita, or I'm faster cause I don't need time to make up fake arguments. | ||
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On April 06 2014 09:47 austinmcc wrote: MY FAVORITE THING ABOUT THAT POST IS THAT IT IS REALLY LONG AND SOME THINGS ARE IN CAPS FOR EMPHASIS. IT'S.........BEAUTIFUL   | ||
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Kita, who else could be scum besides me? | ||
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I wanna find out who between kita, poofter, kush, thrawn and hopeless is scum and who is town. | ||
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I want a huge nice haematoma. | ||
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Now you're posed in front of a challenge. The remaining scum is probably among kush, poofter, hopeless, thrawn. Let's assume conversion is N1 and N2 they get Night kills. Figure a scum team of any of the above combination starting with 2 and figure out who they would recruit. | ||
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On April 05 2014 09:15 Vivax wrote: I mean, he has me, Toad and hopeless as scumreads. When he comes back he votes kita when that vote doesn't have any effect, doesn't try to move people from Toad to him. And most of all he says he's not convinced that all roles have to be blue but that's the reason he doesn't want to lynch his former scumread. On April 05 2014 09:21 Vivax wrote: EBWOP: Better formulated, he says at first that the role is useless and can be easily claimed by mafia, then he says he doesn't want to lynch Toad cause a third blue loss is bad for town or something (while his role was useless anyway) | ||
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On April 06 2014 11:53 austinmcc wrote: Vivax if you are mafia and you were looking at Gumshoe's filter today, or keeping that in your back pocket to be all sneaky, I will be impressed and also mad at you. I wasn't in his filter, I was rereading D1 start (in context) and stumbled over that post. I could mention a multitude of other actions from me that make me town but I don't think that's necessary at the moment. | ||
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On April 06 2014 12:23 kitaman27 wrote: I don't think you understand. I spent 5 hours on that post. FIVE HOURS. I'm exhausted. The thing is, the part where you said you hurt your foot kinda gave me townie vibes cause it seems like a weird thing for scum to make up although not impossible, so I'm currently trying to consider the chance that you might be town, but I can't do that if you only keep focusing on me, if you're town I want to congratulate you for spending 5 hours on posting a case on a townie. | ||
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I'm in the thread and always willing to discuss stuff with you if you're willing to not simply skip on my replies to attach on something else. | ||
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I don't think rayn is town he is playing completely different to the game I play with him before. He was aggressive but I feel like his push on Slam is an easy low hanging fruit type push. Survivor might not be town but its not mafia finding mafia > lynching the survivor. Austin don't you think that finding those who easily believed the survivor claim are likely to be mafia? This is a post by tehpoofter for example. He uses connection on an unflipped survivor to push for rayn. | ||
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sometimes calling slam survivor and not possible survivor On March 31 2014 03:16 Tehpoofter wrote: Actual read on slam is I don't like him he might be mafia claiming the role and rayn brought that up earlier I believe and if he was pushing him for that I wouldn't be suspicious of him but I don't like you want to vote him because you think he is survivor. If he is survivor I think there is a good way to deal with him in that case. This is a post from him right afterwards. Gonna try and find the post you think is such townie. | ||
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On April 06 2014 12:59 austinmcc wrote: (I called someone town because they were poking at Alakaslam and trying to get him to post and give reads and stuff. I need to check my own frigging filter, because that was a super townie thing and hopefully it's someone involved in all this) I think it was amiko after he voted for him. | ||
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He asked DJO what he thought his opinion on your case was. Now tell me if poofter looks like he suspected Djo at the time when he thought it would have been a weird question to ask mafia. | ||
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I've been thinking a bit about his role and there's the fact he doesn't know who he's following or what that role does. His role is actually the only role currently claimed able to gain information for scum unless one of the claimed vanillas is a scum rolecop or something like that. There is also kita pointing out something scummy on him, then leaving him alone until D2 and calling me asking him questions useless. This is connection based, but maybe you will listen to a guy like Foolishness who is one of the best scumhunters on this forum. He's not infallible but he's good. Otherwise I pointed out the way he handled kita D1 being reluctant to call him scum yet feeling the need to ask him about his actions. | ||
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On April 06 2014 15:03 Amiko wrote: @Vivax I don't really understand. I'm just saying if kita's role claim is true, he may still be able to protect someone. No, he must use each of his actions before being able to use a previously used one again. Now ask yourself this: Is it likely that town has 3 protective roles when scum has 2 KP at night 2 with kita being a vet, a roleblocker, a doctor and a tracker at once? We have a watcher, a detective, a tracker? A doctor, a JK, another doctor? If you think I'm town then you should be wary of kita's claim. | ||
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On April 06 2014 14:56 thrawn2112 wrote: amiko i'd rather you come up with some original stuff instead of you commenting on other people's posts Thrawn, do you believe he could be scum or what is the point of this question? It isn't exactly original stuff either. | ||
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On April 06 2014 15:21 thrawn2112 wrote: i want him to post something that will move the thread along. what he's doing isn't who knows if he is scum, i sure don't. I don't think he's a priority though. but either way, no matter his alignment, it's best for town if he posts his own stuff instead of writing non conclusive essays about every big case that comes up Don't you think he's town for going for wrong speculation on my role when scum should know my claim is true? He suggested it couldn't be based on some false information. Also thrawn, there's this post from D1 that kinda raises questions: On April 01 2014 04:31 thrawn2112 wrote: i will also lynch slam over gumshoe in order to not lynch rayn but i will not like it. Afterwards you said slam can stay, yes. But at that particular time, why slam over gumshoe? It's not like gum did anything to clear himself at that point. | ||
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On April 06 2014 15:54 Amiko wrote: Kita I started on your case and rereading but I'm too tired to gofurther tonight. I'll aim to do it first thing tomorrow. I'll hold the nuke until night phase, hopefully that won't screw us over. Nah it won't. It can't be roleblocked cause there's the announcement before phase end and it goes through vet and med protection. | ||
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Not gonna let you off the hook that quickly but you gain some townpoints for now. Will ask you some other stuff later. | ||
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I wanna see how scum deals with 3 offensive roleblocks tho | ||
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On April 07 2014 04:49 kitaman27 wrote: Saving this post for later. Out of all the reasons to want to lynch kush, his role being "too good to be town" is a really weak way to jump on the wagon. I agree with this. It's a terrible post and probably makes the dude scum. Kush claimed D2 and most people were more like town on him when he shot gumshoe. Blues: (I think one is scum hopeless claim is the most townie cause it seems silly for scum to claim when they did.) Kush reaction was good to gum even though he shot the medic I'd have done the same as town although his role does seem really strong. Vivax probably the most scummy claim wise cause he was reluctant to give up his visit. But I was going to move my vote off him based on play so I still give him town points. JJD Seemed to try to get hopeless on that whole fakeclaim thing thats the 3rd occurance of him really pushing a scum read on something slip like to me it pings scummy because of my background as I highlighted in a previous post but it may be different on the forums. Kush Vivax Hopeless JJD The sudden change of opinions and disregard of how kush claimed is pretty sketchy. | ||
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On April 07 2014 05:24 thrawn2112 wrote: i disbelieve that he used the scumometer Why aren't you voting for him though. | ||
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On April 07 2014 05:47 Tehpoofter wrote: Well either the bus is real or town might have just lost. Why did you change your mind on his role so quickly? That could have been your argument a while ago, not with kush having a pile of votes on him. | ||
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I suggest we delay the decision on kita as much as possible and try to figure out the second scum among hopeless, poofter, thrawn. Gonna look at differences between kita's D1 and D2. I just hope the conversion is a night ability and not something immediate that can be used during the day. Need to figure a way to coordinate roleblocks tonight without scum knowing how to react to it. | ||
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That means that 1 scum is either claiming vanilla, or one of the remaining roles is scum. Just which one? I'm putting my bet on Tehpoofter being a fake vanilla and kita being a converted guy, alternatively Poofter has been converted and hopeless has a scum role. | ||
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On April 07 2014 07:41 thrawn2112 wrote: well what use is that role to mafia? i can see it being of use to town, like he might be able to watch for framers Well he sees anyone who visits a guy together with rose, that's a guaranteed blue snipe every time it happens and when JJD pushes a guy he visited previously they can deduce he's cop. What imo is a strong indicator of kita being mafia is that scum shot Djo knowing that me and hopeless were both blue (if hope isn't scum), they would never take such a risk of not shooting a claimed blue without already KNOWING Djo was inventor, and inventor is clearly a much better role than a claimed JK or such a watcher. | ||
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Well he sees anyone who visits a guy together with rose, that's a guaranteed blue snipe every time it happens Nevermind they can't know it's JJD until he claims. | ||
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On April 07 2014 07:44 thrawn2112 wrote: i dont see how hopeless can have a fake role. didn't he announce his results before other people confirmed them? so the actual role mechanics have to be true right? and i'm still not seeing how his role can be useful to mafia The role isn't fake, the name can be. I mean that type of watcher could be a scum role although it is kinda weak. I'm kinda moving towards a kita/poofter scumteam as final solution. The argumet with Djo getting shot over other claimed blues is in my opinion very strong. | ||
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If kita is scum then he made a mistake in being sincere cause I don't see why scum would shoot Djo over claimed blues without already knowing his role. | ||
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Scum might as well have tried to snipe the inventor knowing I didn't visit JJD. After all the claimed blues were me, JJD, kita, hope, Djo. JJD hope and me couldn't be the inventor. So not much left to choose from. But in that case...Why Djo and not kita? | ||
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Can't use that argument on kita after all. But I can't believe scum wouldn't recruit a scum player of his caliber. Hopeless we don't know if scumometer had a notification. Can you tell us who you think is scum please? | ||
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Kush's role had become useless, he became a goon once he fired his shot. Hence why I said that nobody fighting back on that lynch was a gambit. The pawn got killed so the converter could survive tonight. My theory is like previously mentioned that scum converts on odd and shoots on even nights. They might also have a converter and be able to hold back KP. Now, if we assume that tehpoofter is scum with kita, then TP must be either a converter or some other type of scum role if the conversion is a factional ability and not a role. In case it's a role, me and austin both roleblock TP and scum can't convert tonight, or only kita can carry out the kill or conversion if it's not factionally executed. Scum kita can roleblock one of us but not both, hence the conversion gets fucked up. Maybe scum can't use a role and carry out a kill/conversion at the same time. Summa summarum I think that'd be a good plan for tonight as opposed to kita's "all roleblockers target each other". | ||
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On April 07 2014 08:37 thrawn2112 wrote: vivax, there is part of kush's role that we aren't allowed to know That's usually the part where the name of your scumbuddies is written. | ||
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If of the vanillas it's not amiko or thrawn it has to be TP, plus the way he jumped on the kush wagon was absolutely ludicrous. Kita converted N1. GG scum. I don't see who else could be. | ||
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On April 07 2014 10:18 kitaman27 wrote: Then explain why I wouldn't roleblock djo knowing that he was the inventor and protected austin instead? That's essentially a free nuke or dt check added to the game because I was feeling generous? Djo claimed blue early on in the game so it's only a process of elimination to figure out his identity. I'm also on the nuke tp bandwagon. He jumps on kush for a weak reason, he has a vanilla role which is likely fake and kush chose not to check him even though he was his strongest scum read. Instead, he checked the player he claimed to have a town read on for most of the game. On April 05 2014 05:44 austinmcc wrote: Okay good. Not 100%, as I could see scum having either the Cyber Planner or the Doctor as a main role, possibly with Godfather protection, but that's nice. I am a roleblocker and RBed Toad N1, RBed Kita N2. If kita shows town and does what I think he might do, he's likely cleared. If kita doesn't do what I think he might do, it may be because of my RB and Vivax would have faked his claim (or kita don't do what i think he do). Usually roleblocker blocks before jailer but on the other hand that's when they RB each other. There's however the fact that hopeless was watching you and didn't see anyone (if he's not lying)...That means austin's roleblock didn't work. But what if... On April 05 2014 06:22 Hopeless1der wrote: Not that its worth anything, but I can confirm that JJD and Austin's claim match my check: This is a lie? I think I need to think some more on you and hopeless. REVOKE NUKE ON TP. | ||
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I actually think hopeless is lying precisely because the hosts didn't confirm that they made a mistake to the thread. If they did it would be game changing information and they need to fix that. If we lose the game cause of this the hosts are to blame and I can shrub off responsibility for my following conclusions. So I'll work on the premise that the hosts didn't make a mistake, and hopeless lied to cover up HIS mistake. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Let's see. I jail austin, you protect austin, austin roleblocks you. Hopeless sees austin roleblock kita. That means that my jail didn't work on austin either cause of order of preference or cause I was roleblocked, order of preference usually only applies when jailer and roleblock target each other. Means I have been roleblocked. Since you likely have been converted then scum can also have 2 roleblocks. SCUM HAS TO HAVE AT LEAST 1 ROLEBLOCKER WITH THOSE ROLES. So the plan was this: Your roleblocker 1 roleblocks me, roleblocker 2 (kita) roleblocks Djo. My jail on austin doesn't work for some reason. He roleblocks you however and Djo manages to invent the scumometer. It also makes sense to roleblock me for fear that I might jail one of your targets. | ||
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##Votenuke Kitascum | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:00 kitaman27 wrote: Wait, so lets get this straight, the scum team is myself, kush, and hopeless. "So the plan was this: Your roleblocker 1 roleblocks me, roleblocker 2 (kita) roleblocks Djo. " So who is our mysterious roleblocker? Are you saying it was 4v4 yesterday? You just said 4v4 was unreasonable a few moments ago? Hopeless can have additional powers he simply didn't claim. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:02 kitaman27 wrote: So he just decided to guess that nobody else visited austin hoping that he wouldn't get caught in a lie? Or are you saying he performed two actions at once? Hopeless' "power" is a passive, not a power he has to choose to use. | ||
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On April 05 2014 06:27 Vivax wrote: Oh fuck didn't think of this. Okay, nuke clearance is back. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:04 thrawn2112 wrote: vivax can you explain what the "missing" night action is? or the "extra" one? or whatever you're talking about lol. I think hopeless is perfectly capable of having extra powers since his watcher role works automatically. He latches onto rose and watches whoever she visits. The host mistake probably isn't a mistake the hosts made, it's a mistake hopeless made. Why did nobody roleblock Djo and stop him from inventing the scum-o-meter? Cause they roleblocked me, the remaining blue between hopeless and Djo. Roleblock Vivax and Djo, kill Djo. Hopeless is one of them anyway. Since I was jailing austin and have been roleblocked, he managed to roleblock kita. Hopeless posted what he really saw in his PM, then realized that mistake could get him lynched, he backtracked. | ||
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Amiko can choose between believing that hosts would be douchebags and not tell the thread about a mistake, or he can believe that hopeless lied. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:33 thrawn2112 wrote: well i'm still lost It's perfectly simple. Hopeless got a wrong PM from the hosts and only he gets that feedback? GJ hosts, you influenced the game favouring a faction depending on hopeless' alignment. Hopeless got the right PM but soon realized that the true claim will get him into danger? He lied to cover it up. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:35 Hopeless1der wrote: Good work Vivax, blame the hosts for not modconfirming me town. Totally their faults. Telling the thread if they made a mistake with your PM doesn't modconfirm you jack. They can make that mistake no matter what your alignment is and your role was already confirmed to the thread cause you saw me and JJD visiting austin. | ||
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You cannot not behave. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:41 kitaman27 wrote: If I'm mafia, why am I a vet? Town doesn't even have any kp aside from the vet proof nuke. That would be completely worthless. Converted N1. Tell me this, kita. Why have you been stalling with your roleclaim? Specifically you only claimed after everybody else already had claimed their actions. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:41 Hopeless1der wrote: My role, as claimed, is not useful to mafia. That is not your only power. That's your passive. Your active power is a roleblock, possibly a conversion. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:48 Hopeless1der wrote: You retards are implying I have more abilities than what I claimed. I dont have anything else. That is my role. I am a modified watcher and thats it. Obviously I shouldn't have taken the hosts at face value when they reported my check. I'm obviously to blame. Similarly, when it was corrected, I should have claimed scum instead of trying to provide the town with my corrected results. You should have requested for their mistake to be made public cause it made you look worse and caused unnecessary confusion. But you couldn't cause it was your mistake and not theirs. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:51 Hopeless1der wrote: Well feel free to explain to me how my role, as claimed, benefits me if I am mafia. You catch any blue that visits the same target as Rose. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:52 kitaman27 wrote: Because I had no information that benefited town. Like aside from being transparent, what's the point to letting the mafia team know what I have? Are you suggesting that I should have told everyone that I tracked djo to jarjar during the night two resolution period when everyone else was claiming? And why on earth would I be the recruiter target on N1? rayn just voted himself to get me lynched, that was how sure he was. Based on town sentiment, I was probably the player most likely to get lynched d2. Out of all the obvious townies, I was the choice? Town sentiment?Hopeless sentiment. Hopeless asked for a 1 on 1, next day he threw it in the trash. That's cause then you became a part of his team. I didn't see anyone else suggesting you should be lynched just cause rayn asked for you to be lynched after him. You delayed the roleclaim so you could wait for everyone else to claim their actions and paint the course of events that benefit you the most, knowing what the blues did at night. You had a good excuse, having the best role in the game. Besides, if you really were town you wouldn't have claimed you are also a vet, that's retarded. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:57 Hopeless1der wrote: And I know nothing about them, just that they exist. Have you seen the number of blues flipped? Technically you're right, but based on the flips that "knowledge" isn't particularly valuable. You can also claim that somebody visited a night killed target by chance visited by the DT that night. Why are you downplaying your role? | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:57 kitaman27 wrote: Out of all the players in the game, you are honestly saying that I looked like the most obvious townie after d1? You thought you looked scummy after lynching rayn? Apologies for calling what you did retarded. But it's bad and doesn't make much sense from town perspective, very much from scum perspective. | ||
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On April 07 2014 12:06 thrawn2112 wrote: tehpoofter so afk still seems like the best nuke to me I think kita is the best cause it's either him and poofter or him and hopeless. You think kita is town? | ||
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Fair play right? | ||
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On April 07 2014 12:13 Hopeless1der wrote: totes. I'd rather that than blaming the hosts for their choice of moderation. I'm not blaming them, I'm saying you are actually scum cause I don't think hosts would make such a mistake not public. | ||
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Hopeless, who is your nuke preference? | ||
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On April 07 2014 08:17 Hopeless1der wrote: Which would greatly implicate kita and make their conversation a complete sham when kush announced his "activating" the check. | ||
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So pls votenuke kita. | ||
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On April 07 2014 12:35 kitaman27 wrote: Scum can win the game tonight? You know more than you're supposed to? I wonder if Vivax makes sense as a conversion. That would completely invalidate the kush interaction if he was town at the time. it's 4/2. If it becomes 3/2 cause of a vigi hitting town scum kills me or converts somebody and we have no protective roles left. It's cute how you grasp at straws though. Trying to catch scumslips lol. | ||
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On April 04 2014 05:25 Hopeless1der wrote: Amiko is pretty goddamn town. Every other post (with no provocation) he is constantly updating or explaining or expanding on stuff and has commented on almost every main point in the game afaik. Excellent play and something to be wary of conversions. JJD very likely town based on role speculation. Kush very likely town based on reaction to gumshoe. No hesitation, immediate shot. I feel scum would have tried to go to their QT all "wtf he claimed my role do I kill him?" before pulling the trigger. Thrawn good activity Vivax I dunno Toad is a useless pile of garbage this game. Kita seems like he's working towards a town-oriented goal. BIRDGOD goes #squak, very town. no idea about djo or poof. On April 04 2014 05:54 Hopeless1der wrote: I think my roleclaim confirms JJD town. As scum he would be able to get me or vivax lynched pretty easily by simply saying "nope wrong answer". Thoughts? | ||
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On April 05 2014 10:59 Hopeless1der wrote: I really like what Vivax posted on tehpoofter, especially since his suspicions are on what I believe (atm) to be 3 townies (Vivax, me, Toad) I'd also like to note that Kita isnt mentioned at all in that first quote which is fishy all on its own. | ||
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Hopeless simply knows he's scum and says TP is fishy for not mentioning him. | ||
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On April 07 2014 13:08 Hopeless1der wrote: so we'll flip kita first and then worry about me/poof right? Sure, but first you have to votenuke your scumbuddy. | ||
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On April 07 2014 13:13 Amiko wrote: @Hopeless When did you first think kush might be scum? When he read his role pm. Why did you find Austin's case more compelling than Kita's given your game-long town read of kush? Cause one thinks that always being on your scumbuddys side all game long looks bad on the long term. Why not defend kush since you had been townreading him? It would look bad later. Also are you in a zombie army? He is alive, just underwent special plastic surgery with some brain reprogramming. | ||
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Kita is good town so it's easier to tell when he's scum, hence I'm more sure that he is over hopeless who could as well just be derp cause he also looks bad as town. aaaand we get a roleblock out of the way, although hopeless probably has another one. | ||
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On April 07 2014 13:55 Hopeless1der wrote: That read had nothing to do with my read on you, it had to do with my perceived read on JJD and what a scum-JJD might do vs what a town-JJD might do. Scum JJD lies to get one of us lynched. Town JJD does not. You say he's town cause he doesn't want to lynch me. That implies scum would want to lynch me. That implies you knew or at the very least knew I'm town, after a post where you call me null. So no, the read didn't have nothing to do with your read on me. Next you say TP is scum for not mentioning kita after you said he was working towards a town objective. | ||
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On April 07 2014 13:57 thrawn2112 wrote: because he's my scumbuddy Not funny, thrawn. | ||
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We should both roleblock one of TP or hopeless. That way if kita chooses to roleblock one of us it still goes through. If he has a scum role, it's blocked. If scum KP isn't factional, he can't kill. Who do you think is more likely scum among the two? Can we be sure that thrawn is town? The semi-trolling from earlier I didn't like much. | ||
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It's in your hands to win this game for town after kita's flip and my death so I hope you manage to discern who is scum between hopeless ,thrawn and TP. Gl with that. | ||
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This is now the appropriate time to discuss stuff involving Toad/Foolishness. I don't see an issue here if some guy looks over my shoulder while playing mafia and adds in his thoughts. GG scum. Amiko truly well played. | ||
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So I save austin N1 and you don't let me win. This will not be forgotten. | ||
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As for hopeless it'd be nice if he could work out a way to make himself readable as town. Idk but his style keeps being unreadable to me. I guess the day I'm a mafia god is the day I can read him. | ||
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On April 10 2014 09:11 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm usually the first one to be self-depreciating about my play, but my activity for this game was really shitty even for me. I've been working on getting my mom a new car and selling her old one, which finally got done this weekend but then also catastrophe as for the conversion mechanics, i feel like it would have been super useful for the OP to have a little bit more in terms of what scum were capable of. Conversion+KP+rolecop+ literally unkillable? thats just a little bit stacked for kush. I know town was also really heavy on power roles, but general suspicion of lies, fake claims, godfather or bus drive mechanics...I think scum's toolbox was stronger than towns. Well without shrink scum becomes theoretically unbeatable only with lynches just from D2 on. You lynch one, they convert one. That's why their abilities are factional under a certain number of something I think. So roleblocks work when they become too many. But idk, one conversion a day seems a bit too strong to me, and starting with only one scum is weak for them. That poor D1 kush lol | ||
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