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On April 15 2014 07:08 gonzaw wrote:
Maybe we could include a "Battle Royale" mafia game, where everything (I mean EVERYTHING) is permitted. Is someone black? Feel free to make any racist remark at him you want. Did someone's mother die? Feel free to tell him how your boner choked her to death. Is someone more prone to ragequitting? Feel free to insult him since D1 until he decides to throw himself off a bridge.
Now you might be surprised... but me... I might actually sign up for that...
it might not actually be fair though.... + Show Spoiler +My mother, is in fact RL dead. + Show Spoiler +(has been for while so you necros can calm down) In that game... If someone tells me their boner choked her to death, I would suggest that they get a blood test pronto as they appear to be unaware what she died of.... The bottom of the barrel is indeed very deep, and I have seen things crawling around in the murk below the depths even I have plumbed. and don't get me started on the gerbils... the more I think about that the more we might need to take the game off site... as there will be some subjective limit on what the actual TL mods will allow even with our present arrangements.
On April 15 2014 07:08 gonzaw wrote:
Anybody that wants heavy shit, sign up for this game. But for the rest of the games, we play all civil and nice and drinking tea with cookies and grilled cheese sandwiches.
I think just agreeing that being relatively civil and figuratively 'keeping it in your pants' or 'in the game and about the game' would be sufficient or at least go some distance to alleviate many peoples problems with most games.
The current situation where it is explicitly, publicly, and vociferously endorsed that nope every subjective behaviour(according to Darth), including our above hypothetical exchange is in bounds in all games that every one plays, and if you don't like that, don't play(fuck off/forever if required AKA FOAD.) and play on forum where the noobs play because we play on very high level here and saying "I fucked your dead mother to death, I found her death rattle as she struggle to breathe... invigorating, is a critical part of my very high level scum hunting.
BTW... if I just crossed subjective TL line... by even discussing what might be said in game with no subjective bounds on behaviour... oops. Sorry.
Oh and while cookies and grilled cheese sandwiches should not be compulsory parts of games they are nice additions.
Edit: Oh and skip thinks bones (not boners) should be in some games too.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'm not even sure what you guys are talking about. Nobody wants to do a Battle Royale mafia game or run around breaking TL rules. What we're talking about here isn't even in the same league as that. It would be like two people discussing whether it's worth having a touchscreen or not on a laptop and someone comes in talking about how the best part of a laptop is dipping in in chocolate sauce and licking it.
I think my philosophy is pretty much perfect: use everything within the rules to win. The rules don't let you go around yelling about racist stuff or boner-choking, for reasons both related to TL Mafia rules and Teamliquid rules. However, if I claim my grandfather died so I'm busy at his funeral, and you buy it, that should be totally allowed. If I say I swear on my mother's grave or whatever, it doesn't matter whether my mother is dead or not. I do anything necessary within the rules to win, and I also ignore anyone's IRL excuses.
Does this mean I always claim IRL reasons? no, of course not. People know that I'd sell my sister into slavery to win a game of mafia so when I say "I'm sorry, I am busy at work" nobody believes me. That being said, sometimes I still managed to pull off a sob story or two.
In any case, this originated with a guy saying "I swear on my life I'm not scum" and as I said before, the problem isn't that he did it as town, it's that he doesn't do it as scum. I'm not saying we need to talk about choking each other with penises. We just need to be willing to do things as scum that we are already willing to do as town.
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Blazinghand you are ofc ok. Ugh those idiots.
I hate cheaters like Toadand Fool and Fool; You are a cheater. You don't get to tell me i am facing "maybe a perma ban". Yeah you fucker. You don't get to say that to me even if i deserved it, so suck it.
thanks. (and stop cheating)
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On April 15 2014 09:01 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm not even sure what you guys are talking about. Nobody wants to do a Battle Royale mafia game or run around breaking TL rules. What we're talking about here isn't even in the same league as that. It would be like two people discussing whether it's worth having a touchscreen or not on a laptop and someone comes in talking about how the best part of a laptop is dipping in in chocolate sauce and licking it.
I think my philosophy is pretty much perfect: use everything within the rules to win. The rules don't let you go around yelling about racist stuff or boner-choking, for reasons both related to TL Mafia rules and Teamliquid rules. However, if I claim my grandfather died so I'm busy at his funeral, and you buy it, that should be totally allowed. If I say I swear on my mother's grave or whatever, it doesn't matter whether my mother is dead or not. I do anything necessary within the rules to win, and I also ignore anyone's IRL excuses.
Does this mean I always claim IRL reasons? no, of course not. People know that I'd sell my sister into slavery to win a game of mafia so when I say "I'm sorry, I am busy at work" nobody believes me. That being said, sometimes I still managed to pull off a sob story or two.
In any case, this originated with a guy saying "I swear on my life I'm not scum" and as I said before, the problem isn't that he did it as town, it's that he doesn't do it as scum. I'm not saying we need to talk about choking each other with penises. We just need to be willing to do things as scum that we are already willing to do as town.
There are not and should be no subjective limits on in game behaviour, is being discussed. As objectively doing that would indeed bump up against the subjective limits that would in the end be imposed by TL mods, it is indeed on the table.
The limits on mafia are claimed to all be objective adding subjective ones is claimed to be inherently bad.
I am also not sure what you are talking about as I am not and never have been talking about anything you do when you play.
Zero of my (library of private exemplar posts) of what I would have disallowed if I had decided to host a game were posts you made. (Note: That was my plan for how to make subjective judgements both reliably and self consistently. By having a private library of prior examples of what was in and out of bounds, and comparing new in game examples to those. It was starting to build that library that led me to notice the prevalence of posts that were not as I saw it about the game but were just people being dicks.)
So what you would and wouldn't do is not highly relevant to anything I have said.
+ Show Spoiler +There is in fact one play you once pulled where I thought errmmmm... really what is BH doing. I wont discuss that in thread as it later appeared to be a gambit you used to find scum, that I now also could piggy back reads from. I still think its an 'unwise play' but its entirely possible you don't know how close it was to doing something that is largely indistinguishable from it, but would have been to me, + Show Spoiler +I am certain not to any objective standard, a bit cheaty as it would have relied on rather specialised knowledge, that I think shouldn't be in the game on TL. YMMV.
What I am talking about did not start with someone swearing on their life that they were not scum.
That I am largely ignoring as a non issue.
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I'll be honest here. And i want to be. Because i am pissed off. Not gonna lie.
Foolishness. I made a bad boo-boo and yelled things to gumshoe drunk. You told me "if you don't stop you ar gonna face a perma ban on TL". Well guess fucking what. No! I won't. Or... then give it to me. But man, you. you don't get to tell me that. GMarshal or Greymist etc... people who are reasonable, they can tell me what to do. You can't. You can go fuck yourself because you are a cheater. Thank you. You cheated with Toad on Dr.Who mafia and you can't deny it.
So, if you got something to say to me, take it to mods, because you are a cheater. You are not allowed to talk to me like you did. Thanks.
So, apologize, or give me the perma ban right here right now.
Go man! Be a man, let's see your balls.
A cheater can't tell me what to do and if he does...
just.....
rofl
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generally i don't think anybody should be talking about bans during a game? especially not players?
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I am not playing in any game and i don't think anyone discussed is either.
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oh i thought fool told you during a game that your behavior was a perm ban
wahtever ignore me i have no idea and this is all very confusing
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yes he implied so and i don't take orders from a cheater.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I feel like I never actually understand what Axle is talking about.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
rayn do you really think anything positive for us will come of this
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On April 15 2014 10:11 Blazinghand wrote:
rayn do you really think anything positive for us will come of this
hey i am the guy taking all the bans and shit anyways so...
t_T
what do you mean? should i just suck on people's dick's like everyone else?
am i wrong? what are you saying? are you saying "bury it shhhh........"?
what?
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On April 15 2014 10:08 Blazinghand wrote:
I feel like I never actually understand what Axle is talking about.
I'll give a tl;dr (which I think he said...maybe?)
The TL mafia "rules" are subjective themselves. The host are the dudes that enforce them, but the hosts are humans and not superontological beings with a divine moral compass. Hosts can get stuff wrong, hosts can get stuff right. Either way, those are the "rules" you speak of, and the ones you try so much to "circumvent" to try and win the game.
But should you? Who says those subjective rules the hosts posted, or maybe most importantly, the rules they didn't post, are the correct ones?
I mean, you know not everything is all nice and dandy, considering what happens in the Ban thread every 10 seconds.
The rules are static and objective, yet ambiguous at best, or dinamic, changing, relative and subjective at worst (where hosts can do what they like with them). So where is the precise set of rules that tells you how you ought to or you ought not to play mafia?
I think this might be part of a higher order of things. Mafia is a game that relies on human interaction and deception. Based on that phrase alone, there should be a minimal set of maxims or something that, based on your own morality and ethics, decide how one should and shouldn't play like.
But I believe it might go beyond the rules, specially something so static as "This is forbidden 100% of the time in every single scenario" or stuff like that.
So, what do we know? I dunno, but like Axle said, we can start by figuring out how we would act OUTSIDE a mafia game, and then, step by step, incorporate these new notions into our behaviour:
-It's a competition
-You are supposed to manipulate and deceive people
-It's a game where everybody should have fun (or be able to)
So, do you start with a minimal set, and expand or contract it when you add those notions? Or does the whole set instantly materialize in your mind when you read all those notions at once?
Again, I am not sure. But in both of those cases, it is good to be able to analyze which option ocurred, and why it ocurred to you.
Anyways, I'm kind of babbling...
....DID YOU SEE GAME OF THRONES YESTERDAY? OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
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the problem with the rules is that some people are above them.
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and people make fun of ME because of it.
rofl.
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So, I'm interested in this drama here. What is this ban and stuff that got you angry rayn? Is there a link to a post in the Ban thread or something?
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On April 15 2014 10:34 gonzaw wrote:
So, I'm interested in this drama here. What is this ban and stuff that got you angry rayn? Is there a link to a post in the Ban thread or something?
nono. my bans are deserved. that's not the point.
the point is certain people get away with all kinds of shit and cheating for free.
that's bad.
and people sit on those people's dicks and worship them.
but now, for example. foolishness can come and tell me how bad of a person i am. i want him to fucking post here and go1v1. In public. so we can see who is a good guy and who is a bad guy. (i am not a good guy but i outplay a cheater 100/0 anyday)...
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On April 15 2014 10:30 gonzaw wrote:
....DID YOU SEE GAME OF THRONES YESTERDAY? OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
So good. But I need more screen time.
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Is Foo scum? Did you get a red check on him?
##Vote: Foolishness
Follow the cop!
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EPT
