EPTA Quiet Game of Mini Mafia - Page 32
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Is there a reason you guys did not comment on my case on thrawn at all? While i changed my vote that does not mean the case becomes invalid. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Another question to you; Why don't you jsut go to my filter and check it? Why am i doing your work for you? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so what do you expect the town gains if we all put our votes on yamato now? He has done what he has done, that does not change. some people find it scummy some people don't. That does not change regardless of how many votes are on him. However putting votes on him does not allow the town to pressure other people. I don't care if this has worked or not worked in other games because i can tell you for sure i will not forget arguments and people's promises and i sure as hell will confromt yamato when he comes back to the thread. Why this is incredibly scummy thinking is because of there are at least you and iamp in the game who are generally considered better players than me. Also yamato, Artanis, WoS, thrawn etc.. *Notice this is not supposed to be an insult to anyone and does not represent my thoughts because i obviously think i am the best mafia on the planet*. If i am generally not considered to be in top 2 of players in this game stating that i should be policy lynched on D3 if i am alive is a way of saying "i refuse to give my opinions on rayn and i will already set up an arbitary read on him regardless of what he does - a read that becomes "valid" at some point of the game". When I say consolidate I don't expect the entire town's votes to be on yamato. If you noticed, no one has moved their votes in a while. It's notoriously hard to lynch scum, especially day 1. Yamato's been taking suspicion and a decent amount of votes because he's definitely the best choice we've got, but it's amply clear that we're dealing with a pretty average (read: lurky) town. I count current participation over the past 12-16 hours at something like 5 or 6/13. That's pretty bad. I also don't think that moving votes on yamato means that people will just disappear or stop talking. My vote is on yamato and I'm more than open to talk about other things. Same goes for several of the other players in the thread. As long as there are players willing to discuss things, discussion will be had. Anyone who simply shows up, drops a vote and disappears should definitely be scrutinized, but luckily no one has done that yet. I think that's a really good sign for now. As for the second part, I think I agree with you after reading a few pages from his filter in Back to Basics (holy shit his filter is long in that game). He definitely is not a completely dumb player, and I don't think he is anywhere near as thick as he is coming off in this game. The statement he made about policy lynching you doesn't really make sense. Even if he doesn't think there are other players in the game, it's surprising that he would be so against my use of policy on kush but be completely fine with advancing policy himself. That's a decently important self-contradiction, IMO. In the Back to Basics game he was far less defensive and more coherent in his thoughts, even under pressure. He's been under no significant pressure yet; the main wagon is Yamato, not him, and until a few hours ago it was really just me and WoS sort of prodding him a bit. His reads are garbage this game and not well reasoned at all, whereas in the other game he'd say things like this: + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2013 04:45 Corazon wrote: TBH both Mocsta and Rayn look worse from this: Rayn from his random vote changes and Mocsta from his confirmation bias and his really bad conspiracy theories. I really do not like Rayn martyring...tbh the concept of martyring has been beaten to death and I think he's just using it as a ploy to gain town cred. Rayn, pick a lynch and stay with it. I don't want to lynch you but if you continue to vote for everyone in the thread then I will have no choice but to vote for you. On November 22 2013 02:05 Corazon wrote: This post is an example of confirmation bias. I can't copy/paste because I'm on my phone but the two posts above this in your filter are also examples of confirmation bias. Rayn's behavior was not acceptable but I don't think he should be lynched today for it. The problem with this town is that they fixate on someone's behavior in a very small time window and forget about everything else they have done in the game. This was a problem when people continued to attack me for my exchange with sci (Including you, Moc) for almost 30 hours without thinking about what I have done since then. It is the same with Rayn: if you took a look at the big picture and analyze Rayn's filter throughout the entire game, would you still think he is scum? I would not say that he is "100% a good lynch candidate" upon looking at his entire filter. My phone is about to die. Be back later. On November 21 2013 01:00 Corazon wrote: When did I say that sciberia was bad town? Please find a post where I said he was bad town. I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game. That case was confirmation bias because you took 1-2 decent points about me (which alone are not enough to justify a vote or my lynching) and then supplemented them with saying "Corazon is doing stuff that he always does in every game, he has to be scum for it in this one". Not especially the last post I quoted. When he feels that he has been misrepresented he doesn't whine about it (maybe one can attribute the fact to it being a GM game, but I doubt that's the true reason) but instead he specifically calls out the comment in question and challenges it. Like a townie would-directly and specifically. In this game he's sort of just been nebulously whining about "lies" without actually giving a concrete example of it. He repeatedly mentioned my "refusal" to provide reads but that was almost wholly specific to the beginning and was out of context of the rest of my posts. Outside of that when I've seen him accuse WoS and rayn of twisting his words he's never once, as far as I could tell, brought up a real example of it. I'll take a looksee at the database for any scum games of his tomorrow morning but based on that filter skim I'm leaning more toward scum now. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: So everyone who's been around (WoS, iamp, bugs mainly); Is there a reason you guys did not comment on my case on thrawn at all? While i changed my vote that does not mean the case becomes invalid. I don't really think he is scum. I don't have great reasons for that but I would say there are far better choices for lynch today. I'd rank Yamato, fuba, and cora all above him. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439654¤tpage=27#537 Another question to you; Why don't you jsut go to my filter and check it? Why am i doing your work for you? 'Cause I'm watching ESGN HS Fight Night VOD, and I thought I could ask you on the off chance you wouldn't get mad at me for it,and because I NEVER ask people for stuff like this and do the legwork myself, so I figure I'm allowed for once. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
He attacked Cora (who is also one of your top scumreads) with the best argument the thread had seen at that time. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439654¤tpage=27#537 Another question to you; Why don't you jsut go to my filter and check it? Why am i doing your work for you? It's not much to go on, honestly. I was thinking something similar to what you had when he didn't respond to my questions repeatedly but he actually ended up giving me a somewhat decent answer that correctly (imo) explains his thought process. As for yours his explanation is a little convoluted but where you say it's only possible for scum to do what he did, I say it is entirely possible for town to lose thought processes/lie/have shitty explanations for things as well. If anything I'd be more inclined to know from thrawn why he felt the need to continually try to bait reactions in the first place? What did you hope to gain from the bait on Rayn and your very first vote-bait? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On January 07 2014 16:09 mkfuba07 wrote: My argument is the opposite. One would assume that cora actually perceived the shitflinging, or at least believes that we could interpret what he's said as shitflinging, but that's not at all a part of my opinion of him. My opinion involves him validating his accusation by comparing iamp's actions to a different scum player in a different game. Saying he's shitflinging and following it up by saying he seems scummy is fine. Saying it's scummy because this other scum did it in another game gives me the impression he finds his own argument weak. Like this is literally one of the towniest thought processes there are in thread and incredibly hard to fake as scum, especially considering we are talking about fuba here, who's not played scum much (maybe once or twice?). | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: WoS can i lynch you if i find you doing this in Les Mafia? Umm...I'm going to say yes with the caveats that a) I'm still too lazy to go back and check Les so if I'm wrong I willingly risk the tunnel-Rayn b) My sole mafia game is probably not a good indication of meta. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:50 WaveofShadow wrote: As for yours his explanation is a little convoluted but where you say it's only possible for scum to do what he did, I say it is entirely possible for town to lose thought processes/lie/have shitty explanations for things as well. If anything I'd be more inclined to know from thrawn why he felt the need to continually try to bait reactions in the first place? Okay so do you think it's reasonable to lose your train of thought in 14 minutes as thrawn is suggesting happened? Also do you buy his explanation of being too stoned and how does it make sense because before the argument yamato politely asked thrawn to not post if he does not have a clear head? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like this is literally one of the towniest thought processes there are in thread and incredibly hard to fake as scum, especially considering we are talking about fuba here, who's not played scum much (maybe once or twice?). /agree Not a HUGE fan of meta but I've seen fuba's scumplay and it's.....painful.  This is way too coherent and useful to be scum imo. (Fuba this does not mean you have an excuse to fuck off---help us lynch scum!) | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:52 WaveofShadow wrote: Umm...I'm going to say yes with the caveats that a) I'm still too lazy to go back and check Les so if I'm wrong I willingly risk the tunnel-Rayn b) My sole mafia game is probably not a good indication of meta. But you just said you have never done so. I believe you that you have not done so in your town games as lying about it as mafia does not make sense if you have in fact done so as town. If you are however mafia and have done that as mafia before you might intentionally or sub-consiously repeat the behavior. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
Mr. Cheesecake (2) - gumshoe, Artanis[xp] Raynepelikoneet (0) - Thrawn2112 (0) - WaveofShadow (1) - yamato77 (3) - Kushm4sta (0) - wherebugsgo (1) - Corazon (2) - Not Voting (4) - justanothertownie, mkfuba07, Mr. Cheesecake, Yamato77 Day One ends in Hey, what's a mile to you, mule? I will edit in non-voters now that the number is low. Oh yeah. If I messed up? Tell me by pm- I am not reading the thread, too much going on. Please do this though  | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so do you think it's reasonable to lose your train of thought in 14 minutes as thrawn is suggesting happened? Also do you buy his explanation of being too stoned and how does it make sense because before the argument yamato politely asked thrawn to not post if he does not have a clear head? Well the second sentence is meh because if one doesn't have a clear head in the first place they're bound not to follow instructions like that As for the first one I suppose you have a point...? But then you're suggesting I guess that his original entire excuse and way to defend himself was 'guise I'm too high to play mafia' which seems like a terrible thing to do as scum. People have been lynched for way less. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: But you just said you have never done so. I believe you that you have not done so in your town games as lying about it as mafia does not make sense if you have in fact done so as town. If you are however mafia and have done that as mafia before you might intentionally or sub-consiously repeat the behavior. An interesting hypothesis. As I said you have my blessing to test it, but technically (if you are town) you will only truly know the results after I flip/at endgame. I can tell you that it will not prove what you want it to, because I am town and as such: a) if I did not use it in Les, then me not using it here doesn't prove anything. b) if I DID use it in Les and I use it here then I myself am wrong but then so are you | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On January 08 2014 14:56 WaveofShadow wrote: Well the second sentence is meh because if one doesn't have a clear head in the first place they're bound not to follow instructions like that As for the first one I suppose you have a point...? But then you're suggesting I guess that his original entire excuse and way to defend himself was 'guise I'm too high to play mafia' which seems like a terrible thing to do as scum. People have been lynched for way less. And i have only been lynched as mafia because i was too drunk. | ||
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