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Civility Please |
United Kingdom30774 Posts
I think the restriction on the limit of newbie games is a bit intense as everyone learns at a different pace. However, there IS a turning point where you become not-newbie but at the same time not-awesome and that is a niche that some games need to fill. I like the idea of an intermediate level newbie game where people who aren't quite comfortable with their game can enjoy time to improve in. I love the use of coaches and post-game analysis too, in all honesty I think people should be forced into having a coach in newbies because as a new player they can be absolutely vital in improving your play.
I think the main problem people come accross as was seen in BttB was emotional investment. It's tough to seperate emotion and logic in a game where you devote so much of your time to it and when people don't listen to you it gets tough, just like IRL. However, what people need to realise is every action and reaction means something, if people don't listen to you there are reasons for that. Maybe it is the way you come across or maybe it is that they are just not as invested into the game as you. Maybe they weren't convinced? This is where emotion has to be discarded. All of these reactions should develop into reads, this is a game of logic. Every post that someone makes is based off an individual thought process and subconscious style. Analyse those styles, use them as fuel to your fire and generate more and more discussion!
The single most powerful weapon a person has is their ability to write coherently and participate in discussion. Once you deviate from doing that then scum can hide in the shadows and downplay themselves.
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On December 04 2013 02:09 cDgCorazon wrote:
I don't think that is possible after having everyone in the forum call you an asshole.
1: I never went that far (the dmv Cora fiasco was calling you stubborn and set in your ways)
2: I also realized my own past condemns what I did.
3: I have seen Blazinghand try to do the same at the very least (call back what he said earlier), you must be aware that people can feel regret, so...
I haven't seen marv actually attack you yet either.
Remember when reading my posts, believe it or not I am almost exactly like you but on a microcosm. Everything appears hostile and after I write something it looks hostile as well, yet when I write something that gets a reaction I am surprised even though I thought it might be hostile too.
One just needs to ask what was mean and move on, remembering not to use that wording again- even if others do and skate by unnoticed.
The other side of the necessary coin is to assume someone meant the best until they start cussing. And even then check the context of the cussing.
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On December 04 2013 03:06 Holyflare wrote:
I think the restriction on the limit of newbie games is a bit intense as everyone learns at a different pace. However, there IS a turning point where you become not-newbie but at the same time not-awesome and that is a niche that some games need to fill. I like the idea of an intermediate level newbie game where people who aren't quite comfortable with their game can enjoy time to improve in. I love the use of coaches and post-game analysis too, in all honesty I think people should be forced into having a coach in newbies because as a new player they can be absolutely vital in improving your play.
I think the main problem people come accross as was seen in BttB was emotional investment. It's tough to seperate emotion and logic in a game where you devote so much of your time to it and when people don't listen to you it gets tough, just like IRL. However, what people need to realise is every action and reaction means something, if people don't listen to you there are reasons for that. Maybe it is the way you come across or maybe it is that they are just not as invested into the game as you. Maybe they weren't convinced? This is where emotion has to be discarded. All of these reactions should develop into reads, this is a game of logic. Every post that someone makes is based off an individual thought process and subconscious style. Analyse those styles, use them as fuel to your fire and generate more and more discussion!
The single most powerful weapon a person has is their ability to write coherently and participate in discussion. Once you deviate from doing that then scum can hide in the shadows and downplay themselves.
This is genius
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11589 Posts
That niche is what GM games tend to fill.
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With jampi gone now ( assuming he actually quit) JJD is the only other player from my newbie game back that I see play somewhat. I think it is a very serious and real problem.
and even though he doesn't play that much jampi was probably the best player to come out of that newbie game, real shame
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On December 04 2013 02:39 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:26 Xatalos wrote:
I think the newbie games are a good idea and make it easier for new players to start playing. Maybe there should be some further exploration of this idea - such as a new game type between newbie games and normal (sometimes harsh) games?
Very big "yes please" for "mid level" games. I feel completely useless in the normal games and would love to play games where I could actually get something done. Would love some coaching too, I only got to utilize a coach (as town) in one of my newbies (once I was too stupid to realize how useful that is, twice I was scum). Or even post game analysis. Also, sorry for replacing out, and especially not doing it earlier. I knew there was a risk of having to work extra hours but thought this wouldn't start before I'd know for sure.
Hi
I have been posting the Pokémon "Ditto" lately
So I won't do that here
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On December 04 2013 03:09 yamato77 wrote:
That niche is what GM games tend to fill.
Ah-
Is-
Well I have starry eye syndrome probably.
How new is Raynepelikoneet, Blazinghand? If BH is actually pretty new I am gonna be all  again because he foots it with the best ;D
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On December 04 2013 02:39 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:26 Xatalos wrote:
I think the newbie games are a good idea and make it easier for new players to start playing. Maybe there should be some further exploration of this idea - such as a new game type between newbie games and normal (sometimes harsh) games?
Very big "yes please" for "mid level" games. I feel completely useless in the normal games and would love to play games where I could actually get something done. Would love some coaching too, I only got to utilize a coach (as town) in one of my newbies (once I was too stupid to realize how useful that is, twice I was scum). Or even post game analysis. Also, sorry for replacing out, and especially not doing it earlier. I knew there was a risk of having to work extra hours but thought this wouldn't start before I'd know for sure.
I was ridiculously scared playing in my first non-newbie game, Aperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition. I did get some great advice that really helped me out from JingleHell which I'll repeat here:
1: Ignore the vets. They don't respect each other, why should you?
2: The first thing to learn about TL mafia is you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Everybody talks about all this mystical knowledge, but what it really comes down to is inference based on behavior. Never completely apologize, always be able to explain your reasons, and don't think about your own posting in terms of scum tells.
If you overdo something, apologize for giving people room to misunderstand you. Your intentions were fine, they just took you all wrong. Don't fall into the trap of trying to avoid inconsistencies throughout the game. A real townie isn't trying to survive, they're trying to kill scum. If you're inconsistent, it's because of new information changing your evaluation. Townies should do that.
And finally, never take anyone's advice as being perfectly accurate. Odds are, they didn't express themselves perfectly, and you didn't understand it the way they meant it, and people's minds work differently.
I'm not sure if there's a need for "mid level" games. There's a hard enough time filling some games now, adding a 3rd level, will just make it even more difficult. What if we did more of this or its reverse? Maybe every once in a while have a small shadowing mafia game of less than 10 actual players (maybe more but only if there is enough interest and enough partners), but everyone in that game has a specific shadow. Or make it like a hydra game but only one head can talk. That might fill the desire for more midlevel games with access to not so much coaching (it might be that as well) but just someone to bounce ideas off of and learn how to play better.
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On December 04 2013 03:22 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:39 LoneMeow wrote:On December 04 2013 02:26 Xatalos wrote:
I think the newbie games are a good idea and make it easier for new players to start playing. Maybe there should be some further exploration of this idea - such as a new game type between newbie games and normal (sometimes harsh) games?
Very big "yes please" for "mid level" games. I feel completely useless in the normal games and would love to play games where I could actually get something done. Would love some coaching too, I only got to utilize a coach (as town) in one of my newbies (once I was too stupid to realize how useful that is, twice I was scum). Or even post game analysis. Also, sorry for replacing out, and especially not doing it earlier. I knew there was a risk of having to work extra hours but thought this wouldn't start before I'd know for sure. I was ridiculously scared playing in my first non-newbie game, Aperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition. I did get some great advice that really helped me out from JingleHell which I'll repeat here: Show nested quote +1: Ignore the vets. They don't respect each other, why should you?
2: The first thing to learn about TL mafia is you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Everybody talks about all this mystical knowledge, but what it really comes down to is inference based on behavior. Never completely apologize, always be able to explain your reasons, and don't think about your own posting in terms of scum tells.
If you overdo something, apologize for giving people room to misunderstand you. Your intentions were fine, they just took you all wrong. Don't fall into the trap of trying to avoid inconsistencies throughout the game. A real townie isn't trying to survive, they're trying to kill scum. If you're inconsistent, it's because of new information changing your evaluation. Townies should do that.
And finally, never take anyone's advice as being perfectly accurate. Odds are, they didn't express themselves perfectly, and you didn't understand it the way they meant it, and people's minds work differently. I'm not sure if there's a need for "mid level" games. There's a hard enough time filling some games now, adding a 3rd level, will just make it even more difficult. What if we did more of this or its reverse? Maybe every once in a while have a small shadowing mafia game of less than 10 actual players (maybe more but only if there is enough interest and enough partners), but everyone in that game has a specific shadow. Or make it like a hydra game but only one head can talk. That might fill the desire for more midlevel games with access to not so much coaching (it might be that as well) but just someone to bounce ideas off of and learn how to play better.
Oh yeah you reminded me I something
Ty
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Another way to improve that hasn't been used in a while is the shadowing thread. It takes you out of the game itself but allows you to work on getting better. You can also approach someone for personal coaching in your non newbie games, many vets have someone they tend to turn to when thinking things through.
I'd suggest an increase of shadowing in particular though for those of you feeling unsure of how to play in non newbie games.
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On December 04 2013 03:34 Promethelax wrote:
You can also approach someone for personal coaching in your non newbie games, many vets have someone they tend to turn to when thinking things through.
I thought pretty much all non-newbie games say coaching is not allowed? Or perhaps I've been misinterpreting the rules. Also, if that is in fact allowed, it would be very much appreciated if there was a place to seek coaching instead of just randomly PMing people (because I can not do that).
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On December 04 2013 03:40 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:34 Promethelax wrote:
You can also approach someone for personal coaching in your non newbie games, many vets have someone they tend to turn to when thinking things through.
I thought pretty much all non-newbie games say coaching is not allowed? Or perhaps I've been misinterpreting the rules. Also, if that is in fact allowed, it would be very much appreciated if there was a place to seek coaching instead of just randomly PMing people (because I can not do that).
None are provided, but there are no rules against getting your own coach. I think everyone has a QT with Marv for banter / questions / life coaching because Marv is just marvelous.
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On December 04 2013 03:45 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:40 LoneMeow wrote:On December 04 2013 03:34 Promethelax wrote:
You can also approach someone for personal coaching in your non newbie games, many vets have someone they tend to turn to when thinking things through.
I thought pretty much all non-newbie games say coaching is not allowed? Or perhaps I've been misinterpreting the rules. Also, if that is in fact allowed, it would be very much appreciated if there was a place to seek coaching instead of just randomly PMing people (because I can not do that). None are provided, but there are no rules against getting your own coach. I think everyone has a QT with Marv for banter / questions / life coaching because Marv is just marvelous.
Okay, I interpreted the usual "there are no coaches" as "coaches are not allowed". I'd still prefer if there was a thread where people who wouldn't mind coaching would make themselves available, though.
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United States22154 Posts
On December 04 2013 03:51 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:45 ObviousOne wrote:On December 04 2013 03:40 LoneMeow wrote:On December 04 2013 03:34 Promethelax wrote:
You can also approach someone for personal coaching in your non newbie games, many vets have someone they tend to turn to when thinking things through.
I thought pretty much all non-newbie games say coaching is not allowed? Or perhaps I've been misinterpreting the rules. Also, if that is in fact allowed, it would be very much appreciated if there was a place to seek coaching instead of just randomly PMing people (because I can not do that). None are provided, but there are no rules against getting your own coach. I think everyone has a QT with Marv for banter / questions / life coaching because Marv is just marvelous. Okay, I interpreted the usual "there are no coaches" as "coaches are not allowed". I'd still prefer if there was a thread where people who wouldn't mind coaching would make themselves available, though.
Make one :D
Also given suggestions in this thread I may host A Game of Shadows soon.
(and working on d1 analysis tonight for this game)
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On December 04 2013 03:51 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:51 LoneMeow wrote:On December 04 2013 03:45 ObviousOne wrote:On December 04 2013 03:40 LoneMeow wrote:On December 04 2013 03:34 Promethelax wrote:
You can also approach someone for personal coaching in your non newbie games, many vets have someone they tend to turn to when thinking things through.
I thought pretty much all non-newbie games say coaching is not allowed? Or perhaps I've been misinterpreting the rules. Also, if that is in fact allowed, it would be very much appreciated if there was a place to seek coaching instead of just randomly PMing people (because I can not do that). None are provided, but there are no rules against getting your own coach. I think everyone has a QT with Marv for banter / questions / life coaching because Marv is just marvelous. Okay, I interpreted the usual "there are no coaches" as "coaches are not allowed". I'd still prefer if there was a thread where people who wouldn't mind coaching would make themselves available, though. Make one :D Also given suggestions in this thread I may host A Game of Shadows soon. (and working on d1 analysis tonight for this game)
GMarsh
U R BOSS
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On December 04 2013 03:51 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:51 LoneMeow wrote:On December 04 2013 03:45 ObviousOne wrote:On December 04 2013 03:40 LoneMeow wrote:On December 04 2013 03:34 Promethelax wrote:
You can also approach someone for personal coaching in your non newbie games, many vets have someone they tend to turn to when thinking things through.
I thought pretty much all non-newbie games say coaching is not allowed? Or perhaps I've been misinterpreting the rules. Also, if that is in fact allowed, it would be very much appreciated if there was a place to seek coaching instead of just randomly PMing people (because I can not do that). None are provided, but there are no rules against getting your own coach. I think everyone has a QT with Marv for banter / questions / life coaching because Marv is just marvelous. Okay, I interpreted the usual "there are no coaches" as "coaches are not allowed". I'd still prefer if there was a thread where people who wouldn't mind coaching would make themselves available, though. Make one :D Also given suggestions in this thread I may host A Game of Shadows soon. (and working on d1 analysis tonight for this game)
/in
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I focus on Cora be cause I see some of the most potential in Cora. Say what you will about his skill or demeanor, but no one can ever accuse Cora of just not caring about a game and that's something to me in the current state of the game. Many times over the course of the game Cora was one of very few focused active players and to ignore that because he takes the game too personally is unfair and actually does feed the mentality I think GM is trying to eradicate.
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I do not see potential in some one fake claiming a cop check to get their way, I would rather have some one neutrally affect the game then negatively affect it, as I have always said. Much easier to win with the former.
Just look at the recent games and where people did this (mocsta, corazon, etc) and see how those games turned out due to it...not good
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I've an idea! what if the analysts did a podcast on this? I'd totally tune in!
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On December 04 2013 06:00 Bereft wrote:
I've an idea! what if the analysts did a podcast on this? I'd totally tune in!
Yes because reading the simple analysis of how I derailed the town isn't enough.
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EPT
