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Civility Please |
On December 04 2013 06:01 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 06:00 Bereft wrote:
I've an idea! what if the analysts did a podcast on this? I'd totally tune in! Yes because reading the simple analysis of how I derailed the town isn't enough.
I'm going to request that you do not comment in this thread if all you're going to do is make snippy remarks at everyone because you feel slighted. This thread is for everyone's benefit. Now I just attempted to curb the seething Cora hate that HAS bled into this thread, but you're doing yourself no favors by being snippy here. If you don't care, just leave. If you do care, comment constructively or don't at all please.
This is not an attempt to belittle you or bully you. This is an attempt to maintain the integrity of the intent of this thread.
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On December 04 2013 06:22 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 06:01 cDgCorazon wrote:On December 04 2013 06:00 Bereft wrote:
I've an idea! what if the analysts did a podcast on this? I'd totally tune in! Yes because reading the simple analysis of how I derailed the town isn't enough. I'm going to request that you do not comment in this thread if all you're going to do is make snippy remarks at everyone because you feel slighted. This thread is for everyone's benefit. Now I just attempted to curb the seething Cora hate that HAS bled into this thread, but you're doing yourself no favors by being snippy here. If you don't care, just leave. If you do care, comment constructively or don't at all please. This is not an attempt to belittle you or bully you. This is an attempt to maintain the integrity of the intent of this thread.
Fair enough. I'm just not very happy with the unfair treatment I have received post-game that went way beyond the amount of hate and inappropriateness I showed during the game.
I do appreciate your words as it seems like you are the only one who is analyzing me as fair as possible (Yamato is pretty close as well) and I will heed your advice.
I will probably comment about D1 and a bit of D2 as the analysis comes out but I'll stay out of the thread.
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United States3756 Posts
Cora is sexy. That is all.
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Feel free to stick around - asking questions and for clarification on things is a part of learning. Just stop taking things personally and getting bent out of shape about it here guy. <3
I'm also working on my D1 analysis and it will be incoming tonight sometime.
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My question is why wasn't Scib caught on the scum bus? I always get caught when I bus.
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On December 04 2013 06:41 geript wrote:
My question is why wasn't Scib caught on the scum bus? I always get caught when I bus.
Why didn't I?
It is how you bus not the fact it is done that can implicate you
I actually gained TC from my bus
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On December 04 2013 08:02 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 06:41 geript wrote:
My question is why wasn't Scib caught on the scum bus? I always get caught when I bus. Why isn't i? It is how u bus not the fact it is done that can implicate you I actually gained TC from my bus
Idk. Didn't read the thread at all. I just figured I'd think you were obv scum.
Edit: to clarify, between my ego, the fact that,IMO, I understand your thought process better than most and the fact that I'd be coming in reading knowing you were scum. I didn't see a point in asking about you. Didn't want or mean to say/imply that you were obv scum.
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On December 04 2013 08:03 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 08:02 Alakaslam wrote:On December 04 2013 06:41 geript wrote:
My question is why wasn't Scib caught on the scum bus? I always get caught when I bus. Why isn't i? It is how u bus not the fact it is done that can implicate you I actually gained TC from my bus Idk. Didn't read the thread at all. I just figured I'd think you were obv scum.
He was-ish. We were going to vote him the second last day.
But we were forced to lynch Onegu.
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On December 04 2013 08:05 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 08:03 geript wrote:On December 04 2013 08:02 Alakaslam wrote:On December 04 2013 06:41 geript wrote:
My question is why wasn't Scib caught on the scum bus? I always get caught when I bus. Why isn't i? It is how u bus not the fact it is done that can implicate you I actually gained TC from my bus Idk. Didn't read the thread at all. I just figured I'd think you were obv scum. He was-ish. We were going to vote him the second last day. But we were forced to lynch Onegu.
No one forced you to do anything - your vote is your own and you're free to not vote with someone if you don't agree with their target. Saying you were forced into doing something is unfair. I agree that Cora could have gone about what he did differently, but no one forced you to do anything Mocsta. ESPECIALLY after he came clean about the fake-claim.
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I'm not going to deny responsibility since I didn't exactly fight it. but does it matter if you have free will if your hands are tied?
in any case I'd prefer the game end when it did than for us to no lynch ourselves into oblivion.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On December 04 2013 03:51 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:45 ObviousOne wrote:On December 04 2013 03:40 LoneMeow wrote:On December 04 2013 03:34 Promethelax wrote:
You can also approach someone for personal coaching in your non newbie games, many vets have someone they tend to turn to when thinking things through.
I thought pretty much all non-newbie games say coaching is not allowed? Or perhaps I've been misinterpreting the rules. Also, if that is in fact allowed, it would be very much appreciated if there was a place to seek coaching instead of just randomly PMing people (because I can not do that). None are provided, but there are no rules against getting your own coach. I think everyone has a QT with Marv for banter / questions / life coaching because Marv is just marvelous. Okay, I interpreted the usual "there are no coaches" as "coaches are not allowed". I'd still prefer if there was a thread where people who wouldn't mind coaching would make themselves available, though.
In all seriousness I will make infinite time for anyone who wants it. And given posting freely isn't an issue for me (:p) I may be your guy.
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On December 04 2013 08:08 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 08:05 Mocsta wrote:On December 04 2013 08:03 geript wrote:On December 04 2013 08:02 Alakaslam wrote:On December 04 2013 06:41 geript wrote:
My question is why wasn't Scib caught on the scum bus? I always get caught when I bus. Why isn't i? It is how u bus not the fact it is done that can implicate you I actually gained TC from my bus Idk. Didn't read the thread at all. I just figured I'd think you were obv scum. He was-ish. We were going to vote him the second last day. But we were forced to lynch Onegu. No one forced you to do anything - your vote is your own and you're free to not vote with someone if you don't agree with their target. Saying you were forced into doing something is unfair. I agree that Cora could have gone about what he did differently, but no one forced you to do anything Mocsta. ESPECIALLY after he came clean about the fake-claim. The best outcome I could have achieved was a ##No-Lynch where we would be stuffed anyways.
I decided to roll with it + Onegu didn't take my olive branch.
Yes, I have accountability - and I don't think I have shied from that in-game or post-game.
I'm just saying that if plurality lynch was in play, I think:
(1) Rayn would not have been lynched
(2) JJD prob still would have been lynched
(3) Onegu wouldn't have been lynched
Thats 2 extra townies.
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Day One
Day One of this game started out so well. The thread atmosphere was really good, several people (including one scum O.O) came out looking pretty obviously town (namely Mocsta, Cora, thrawn and scib) and overall it was a really good atmosphere to try and find scum in. There were little cat-fights like any game of wills, but frankly the beginning of D1 was like every town-player's dream. And look at how close people were to nailing the truth! Onegu caught onto Rean - so hard that Rean felt it necessary to bus sciberbia. Rayn caught onto Rean too - and Cora caught onto scib IN SPITE of scib looking pretty town.
But then the egos started flaring, as GM noted in the OP. People become enamored in their own reads and suddenly the consensus that had been reached early on (Rean suspicious) was being questioned. This was a pivotal time for the scumteam in my opinion, because this was a time for both their most scrutinized member (Rean) to lose heat and for one of their stronger members (sciberbia) to plant a seed that eventually grew into a town-on-town-fake-claim.
On November 21 2013 10:24 sciberbia wrote:Of the players that started posting since I went to bed last night, I think Onegu looks by far the worst. His actions look inconsistent with a town mindset. Pay close attention to what his reads are, and how what he chooses to post about is incongruous with his stated reads. + Show Spoiler [first post] +On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.> Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post. Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change. Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy. Anyway rean is really scumm though. Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though. In Onegu's first post, he states pretty significant scumreads on rean and Cora, both of whom have had significant heat on them today. But he spends the majority of his actual words in his post rambling about Mocsta's post count restriction, which is so irrelevant, seeing as he dropped it. Rean and Cora are rather large issues in the thread, and given that Onegu has rather significant scumreads on them, you would expect the majority of his posts to be dedicated to them, but notice how he always seems to instead ramble on about Mocsta. + Show Spoiler [Onegu] +On November 20 2013 21:00 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.
Important things for everyone to know:
As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation
- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.
The others no idea. Really? You dont know me yet? On November 20 2013 22:39 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 22:21 Mocsta wrote:
onegu
your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town
walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to . Umm I think you are scum with rean. Catching scum would be my motive. On November 20 2013 22:44 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 22:40 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 22:39 Onegu wrote:On November 20 2013 22:21 Mocsta wrote:
onegu
your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town
walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to . Umm I think you are scum with rean. Catching scum would be my motive. Well, I guess that answers my question. Is your entire scum read on Mocsta due to that business with his post limit? That and his early post about giving scum reads to like the only three people who posted. Plus his thread control doesnt seem natural, its like he saw he could do it as scum but wasnt planning on doing it but he did it anyway. Ill give more when Im back home. On November 21 2013 01:49 Onegu wrote:
Ok I am home and put my son to sleep so Im getting out my notebook rereading everything and will be back with you shortly, also I basicly agree with everything JJD has said so far minus a small bit of the cora stuff, but the rean and mocsta stuff yeah. But he took back his mospcsta scum read :/. Also I didnt read anyone being a douche to you mocsta so just stop already. On November 21 2013 03:37 Onegu wrote:
@MOCSTA
1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken...
2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post.
3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling.
4 this is fine
5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read?
6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control.
7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip.
8 again not a scumslip
9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful.
10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie?
12 meh ok
12b also fine
13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this?
14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing...
15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean.
16 again why post a completely null post?
17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town
18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since.
19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on
20 admit to being tunneled
21 this is fine
22 tunneled
23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine.
24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd. You can tell a lot about a player's alignment by looking at what they choose to post about. It doesn't make a lot of sense for town!Onegu to be spending all his posts on Mocsta, even pulling up really old (now somewhat irrelevent) posts from Mocsta and breaking them down, when he has stated strong scumreads on Rean and Corazon, both of which he may actually be able to get lynched today. Is he even pushing a Mocsta lynch? No. He's not actively pushing for anything at all. He doesn't seem to think Mocsta is scum anymore than he thinks Rean and Cora are scum, so it looks to me like he just wanted to stay away from the Rean and Cora wagons for one reason or another, and in order to still look like he was doing something complained a lot about Mocsta. It doesn't add up. I think he could be the best lynch today.
Need to reread Aquanim, Cora, and Rean. Not sure who I want to lynch most. In the meantime I'd appreciate some other thoughts on Onegu.
What's important to note is that up to now, sciberbia has been bussing Rean and by extension looks very town to those who agree with him. But when the iron was hot (after rayn had replaced in, people were starting to think Aquanim was more suspicious than Rean) BAM. This post. Suddenly, sciberbia looked like everyone else - doubting their read on Rean and looking for other suspects. Only his is different than most peoples. MOST. Who else is looking at Onegu right now? Recently replaced, voraciously verbose rayn, and the subject of Onegu's most recent content, town-leading-to-a-fault cDgCorazon.
Scib could have posted this and nothing else and probably still survived until endgame, simply based on the sequence of events that followed this post. I mean that's a gross exaggeration, but I honestly think this post marked the turning point for the scumteam. What began as TvM Aquanim v Rean lynch became, amazingly, a rayn martyr OMGUS against Mocsta.
On November 21 2013 23:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote:
##Vote: Mocsta
Now he's just full of shit.
Today you are gonna lynch me or Mocsta. If you lynch me then you lynch Mocsta on D2. Thanks.
If you don't lynch me or Mocsta today i will spam the thread with bullshit as long as i live like he is doing atm.
Players like rayn and Cora believe that they're in the right when they do things like this. They are not. Ever.
What happened was the pressure was on to come to a consensus lynch because of Majority…and when people started arguing with each other, things are taken out of context, exaggerations are taken to the letter and townies start talking themselves into thinking other townies are more suspicious than they are.
This is normal, and is indeed a part of the design of the game. There's nothing wrong with Majority Lynch as a mechanic, this was supposed to happen. What was not supposed to happen was people taking ownership of the lynch to the point that they believe that their target is the only right target. At that point, you can justify almost anything right?
Mafia is a team game. Townies are supposed to come together and lynch scum. Townies are on a team with each other, they just are not aware of each other. But they ARE on the LARGER team in the game. People forget that sometimes, and that's important to remember. Most of the arguments you're going to get into in a game of mafia, statistically, is going to be a with a townie.
Anyway I digress. The pressure was on and it was too much for some. Townie lynched. That's literally all I can say about D1. I don't want to get into individual arguments or who was right or wrong. The thing at least I took away from D1 was: don't be afraid to take a step back and reassess.
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Thanks VE. That makes a lot of sense.
Appreciate the time to look through things.
Regarding stepping back and reassessing.
How do you think would have been the optimal solution for dealing with a player yelling out anything is a scum slip?
I'm actually not referring to Rayn here, I am talking in general.
In other words, any ideas what I or others could have done differently at that point in time?
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When someone belligerently defends a bad premise, what do you usually do? You ignore and look elsewhere. You say "That's not convincing to me" and move on. Arguing with them about whether they're real or not, whatever the argument was, it's only going to hurt town atmosphere if the person is belligerent. Rayn can be belligerent. I've taken to just turning him off...at least until I explode. Not the best method, but it's how I try and keep from ruining the thread.
Like...I know the temptation to tell them how dumb it sounds, and like you I'm not referring to rayn in particular here. In general when someone points at a scumslip it's about some word choice or timing or something similarly ludicrous. But the thing you have to remember is that they HONESTLY BELIEVE it. You can't just tell an avid lottery player that their lucky numbers aren't going to hit, again.
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11589 Posts
If you think said player could be town, tell him to calm down and then stop responding to him, and attempt to talk about ANYTHING ELSE. If you have sway of the thread, make everyone do this. Don't entertain him if all he's going to do is go on and on about insanely stupid things like scumslips.
If you think he's scum, lynch him.
Honestly, Rayn deserved to be lynched for how he played anyway so it's whatever. Analysts discussed this some, if he simply cannot cooperate with other townies, removing him from the equation is a suboptimal but also somewhat necessary play to preserve any attempt at a decent thread atmosphere.
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The problem with rayn is he is not against doing that stuff as scum either as can be shown in heavyweight and ## mafia. So it's hard to do anything except lynch him when he gets like that. You can't ignore it since it is anti-town and he is capable of doing it as mafia.
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On December 04 2013 11:08 VayneAuthority wrote:
The problem with rayn is he is not against doing that stuff as scum either as can be shown in heavyweight and ## mafia. So it's hard to do anything except lynch him when he gets like that. You can't ignore it since it is anti-town and he is capable of doing it as mafia. Yeha, i get that but I feel like I policy lynched Rayn because I *could*
Whereas, I wanted to policy lynch Corazon but couldnt (because we didnt have enough mislynches) and so tried to approach the situation differently.
When I debunked his case against me, I was very careful not to be spiteful etc; and I just keep thinking to myself if I forced myself to take that approach to Rayn - he may have been swayed.
All food for thought, can't change what happened but can at least grow from it.
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So basically, how town lost that game is Rayn decided to make everyone either vote for him or his target.
Then Cora did the EXACT same thing.
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On December 04 2013 12:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
So basically, how town lost that game is Rayn decided to make everyone either vote for him or his target.
Then Cora did the EXACT same thing.
No, that's just now the lynch went south on D1.
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EPT
