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On December 03 2013 13:41 Bereft wrote:moc, why aren't i on your list? 
I forgot haha
Bereft - You became super town from Day2 to me because you acted as a voice of reason. Thats really hard to pull off as scum. I wasn't bothered that you thought I was scum; because you indicated you would still listen - which is really imporant for town.
As an aside, this becomes a problem for Onegu because unlike him. you actually followed your suspicion on me with a vote.
I don't blame you for holding onto your town read on Sciberbia.. but i do blame you for not neglecting what I said about Sciberbia.
Specifically, are you two in sync because he said things first.. or because he +1'd you.
I think considering the amount of activity you could muster, you played very well... HOWEVER, you needed more due to the game circumstances.
You were a universal town read and a "VET" so towards end game, was the only person that could push consolidation..but you were never present. This became a major issue when i was gone for 2 days. You had to carry the torch and didn't/couldn't.
I'm telling you this because I don't know if you realised the responsiblity you had based on the claims/thread sentiment.
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On December 03 2013 13:46 yamato77 wrote:
...
Thread atmosphere is a culmination of every player's tone, however, and I do think it takes someone to mediate between feuding players to keep the game from degenerating. My criticism here is that no one seems to do this anymore, they just let two players argue incessantly. Hapa is a great town player in this regard, he is quick to both de-tunnel himself in those situations if he is arguing, and to step in if two others are destroying the thread. Someone has to mitigate the negativity.
I tried that at a couple of points IIRC (EDIT: mostly d2 so I suppose you wouldn't have seen it) but it didn't improve much. Whether that's because I don't have the strength of personality of Hapa or because the feuding of townies these days is far more implacable... who knows?
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11589 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:38 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 13:28 yamato77 wrote:On December 03 2013 13:26 Aquanim wrote:
ALL? bold words Believe me, everyone could have played better than they did D1. In a majority lynch, every townie on the wagon is responsible for the mislynch. And even the ones not on the wagon, it's their responsibility to both argue down the townie wagon and propose a viable alternative lynch and make it convincing. Everyone. But the mislynch was intentional. Either way, Im curious to hear what you say after the read. I would love some pointers on how to not come across as "changing mind" all the time; whilst, trying to move the thread forward with new ideas/content.
One thing i think could help you considerably in your town play is to strive for clarity. Be shortwinded and precise in what you say. If you change your mind on a read, explain why with a few examples of any doubts you had, and then explain your updated read cleanly. When I read your posts, it's hard to follow your train of thought clearly both because of the way you format your typing and because of how long-winded you can be at times when explaining why you think you're right.
Another suggestion; don't be as cocksure as you appear to be now about every read. Leave some room for doubt. I do it all the time and people don't call me mafia for it. You cannot be sure in this game of interpretation. That way, if you explained your doubts beforehand, it's easier to comprehend why you would have a change of mind later on in regard to the read on the player.
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On December 03 2013 13:41 Bereft wrote:moc, why aren't i on your list?
This post of yours.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 23 2013 19:08 Bereft wrote:Aqua, you shouldn't get mad, you should get flattered! the only reason you're on my "town I ought to reevaluate" list is because from your analysis, articulation, phrasing, etc, i think you're smart and highly capable of being scum while coming off as pro-town. and I guess this post (I really don't like this post): Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 14:10 Aquanim wrote:On November 22 2013 14:02 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 22 2013 13:57 Mocsta wrote:On November 22 2013 13:49 cDgCorazon wrote:
TBH Thrawn looks like your second head or something Moc. All I see from him are town reads on you and +1 on everything that you write. I wish he would branch out and do some of his own reads or else I would like to look at him some more.
Fair comment on being a "hydra" ummm, Thrawn did that last cycle. It was the trigger for Rayns meltdown. One of the key things he found was a read on LoneMeow/HolyFlare which ties in with how HolyFlare has come into this game. On November 21 2013 18:26 thrawn2112 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 21:41 LoneMeow wrote:
I could agree about cDgCorazon being scum. His filter has a ton of filler-like stuff, practically the only player he seems to have anything to talk about is sciberbia and even that is kind of non-commital, he's more or less hinting that sciberbia is scummy but never actually making it a real case. The part about town reads not being useful was just plain weird.
On the other hand, sciberbia's massive tunnel so early in the game is pretty weird and I really don't think they're both scum.
"I agree about Cor being scum" or even "I kinda agree" is how town people talk. "I could agree" is how scum people talk. "Could agree" as in "if I were actually able to have an opinion but I can't because I'm scum." When they phrase things like this you are hearing their inner monologue trying to figure out what their reads would be if they didn't already know alignments. LM is also scum for townreading Aqua at a time when the average townie should have been at least a little suspicious of Aqua. My only problem writing LM off as scum is that he's barely posted. JampiDampi isn't posting either and I don't like how he was so quick to agree that my Aqua case was good and then he immediately stopped looking for mafia. I remember a post about looking for replacements so if this is him then I don't know how important that last point I made is and this might apply to LM if he's the one who's dropping out. Hopefully this won't be a problem after D1. Picking one out of those two to be scum.. I'll go with LM. I just filtered scib real quick and he's ok. My gut says Bereft is town but at some point I'd like to do some 1v1 questioning. Onegu remains an enigma but my gut has more and more been leaning towards town. I was rereading rayn (sorry moc haven't finished up to the stuff you mentioned) and I came across this exchange On November 21 2013 02:21 Mocsta wrote:
Are Rean and Aquanim bussing? On November 21 2013 02:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:I don't know and i don't care. They both look individually bad to me. I'll reconsider when i see flips. I am not looking into connections now. Everyone has made good posts and those people have made bad posts in my opinion. I do not think Aquanim's reasons for voting for Rean are strong, i don't even know if he thinks he is scum as this is what he says: Show nested quote +For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. Shouldn't he be voting for Cora instead? A question like what mocsta asked is exactly the kind of unimportant and tiresome thing that town rayn both would strongly care about and also be able to provide several filter pages of spam talking about. Town rayn would never pass up the chance to indulge a question such as Mocsta asked. Town rayn cares deeply about every minute aspect of every angle of every possible theory and he can't stand not having an opinion about such things. I need to reread Corazon, I previously thought he was pretty townie but Mocsta seems to disagree. I am loathe to do it because I don't want to reread those opening cor/scib arguments again and I also think that town Corazon has a very scummy way of talking, arguing, and just the general way he organizes and presents his thought process. I will do this later. Does it not concern you that he could be buddying you too hard? You've done that tactic to me before (was it Bluelightz? or 37?) and it bit me in the ass. I would like thrawn to have a lot more thread presence going forward. I hope you can agree with that Moc. I'm inclined to think that after pushing my wagon hard at the start of the day and being a pretty strong townread for most people it's entirely understandable that a town Thrawn would decide to step back a little. If one apes the spotlight for the entire day then that doesn't give you as much opportunity to learn about other people. I agree that if he does not maintain a high thread presence going forward I will be reassessing Thrawn. what was the point behind this? it comes off as fluff. or is it meant to be a soft defense of thrawn with the caveat that he needs more activity? that being said, i think Aqua would be a horrible lynch for today given the other candidates out there. unless he shoots himself in the foot / something in the thread drastically changes, i can pretty safely say i won't be voting for him today.
Was for me the towniest as in least likely to be posted by scum post in the game.
There are risks with what you did. (you note fluff: for Aquas post. near as i can tell it served the same towny purpose as your post.)
If as you did you put out a 'fire between two townies that didn't really need to happen', then boom, town points.
In quite similar situations thing can go wrong.
If Aqua is testing whether Thrawn is throwing dirt or legit town with legit points and you interfere then that is not so good.
If Thrawn really has doubts about Aqua and needs to test them then cutting across the interaction can make that harder.
On the other hand done *just* right, then the fact that Aqua calms down, in a plausible way helps everything.
Also making the judgement call that you should do it also speaks of a deep hard to fake town mindset.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That is one of the alternatives that lets players find scum by POE that does not hurt town at ALL.
I could suggest being more active hunting scum.
but you were the doc.
basically it would be pleasure to play mafia with you sometime. With a bit of luck wed both roll town.
Also do note: What is hard for player A to fake is not always so hard for B. But yeah Id like to see more townies capable of making that post, as then Id have much more fun playing the game. If we get mafia to the point where scum can make those posts I will promise to enjoy losing to them.
From below:
On December 03 2013 14:32 Aquanim wrote:
"You were clearly town and didn't rely on your doctor role as a crutch. " +4
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11589 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:51 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 13:46 yamato77 wrote:
...
Thread atmosphere is a culmination of every player's tone, however, and I do think it takes someone to mediate between feuding players to keep the game from degenerating. My criticism here is that no one seems to do this anymore, they just let two players argue incessantly. Hapa is a great town player in this regard, he is quick to both de-tunnel himself in those situations if he is arguing, and to step in if two others are destroying the thread. Someone has to mitigate the negativity. I tried that at a couple of points IIRC but it didn't improve much. Whether that's because I don't have the strength of personality of Hapa or because the feuding of townies these days is far more implacable... who knows?
It's not the latter, and the former has less to do with reputation than simply that Hapa does it in a way that moves the thread forward at the same time. The problem with arguments are that they stagnate the thread. You must both stop the players from arguing with each other and give them other things to talk about that are more productive toward's towns goals. You must also be in a position to do this having established yourself as town and as someone worth listening to.
I will also say that even being townie will not guarantee that this works. Some players take much more pandering to than others to get to de-tunnel in those situations. But in doing so, you are developing a stronger town atmosphere and also one where you can trust the player you are talking down much more than you could if you let them continue arguing. Some players, like Rayn, can be NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to talk down, and I've been complaining about this solo-mentality since the end of Noir.
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On December 03 2013 13:38 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 13:28 yamato77 wrote:On December 03 2013 13:26 Aquanim wrote:
ALL? bold words Believe me, everyone could have played better than they did D1. In a majority lynch, every townie on the wagon is responsible for the mislynch. And even the ones not on the wagon, it's their responsibility to both argue down the townie wagon and propose a viable alternative lynch and make it convincing. Everyone. But the mislynch was intentional. Either way, Im curious to hear what you say after the read. I would love some pointers on how to not come across as "changing mind" all the time; whilst, trying to move the thread forward with new ideas/content.
this is a problem I have (maybe had?)
i remember getting lynched in mylo or something similar, and the gist of the case was that I was changing my reads too often and I was all over the place... a giant incoherent mess of a filter. this was maybe a year or so ago.. dont recall...
what i try to do lately.. what I tried doing in this game was stop myself right before I was about to hit the "post" button and ask myself....
"does the rest of the town really need to read this? are there any reasons why they shouldn't read it? are there any reasons why I don't want X to read this (when X is a scum player who is the subject of my post, regardless of whether I am town or scum reading them) will clicking this post button actually help the thread lynch scum?"
people don't need to read your every thought. it may in some cases make you look townie to those people who are good at making stream of consciousness based reads, but there are other ways to look townie and many times it makes you look either A) scummy or B) fickle and stupid
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Yeah. Often it makes me skill stupid.
Recently, scummy.
Sigh.
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mocsta so you remember saying you wanted to talk about why you come across as scummy?
On December 03 2013 13:52 yamato77 wrote:
Another suggestion; don't be as cocksure as you appear to be now about every read. Leave some room for doubt. I do it all the time and people don't call me mafia for it. You cannot be sure in this game of interpretation. That way, if you explained your doubts beforehand, it's easier to comprehend why you would have a change of mind later on in regard to the read on the player.
this is a big part of that reason. a lot of your posts have an air of.... it;s hard to describe... maybe assholishness? but that's not the right word because you aren't (i don't think) doing it maliciously. it's like you're making an effort to make your posts funny, or entertaining, or amusing... but many times the jokes are at people's expense.
no that's no right either.
it's things like this:
On November 22 2013 01:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 01:54 cDgCorazon wrote:
Mocsta, don't tell me this isn't a battle of egos. Your confirmation bias is showing. I'm just not happy with the fact that you are throwing a Rayn lynch in my face and not going with someone who has played scummier overall (such as the three people I mentioned before).
This whole Rayn crap is stupid. It should have never been a thing in the first place. You have my full attention Corazon. Please detail my C.B., and why Rayns behaviour from what, 2hrs ago was acceptable.
it's... not really a joke... but there is a sarcastic air to it. if corazon's town then a post like this can only piss him off. you know how corazon reacts when you (specifically you) poke at him. this is something that you and I actually discussed in our telepathic mason chat during the first hours of the game. he might decide you're scum, because why would a townie try to anger and provoke people?
like I said.. these things you're doing aren't overt... it's the tone of your posts. lay back on the sarcasm and useless aggression. i support being aggressive to try and read somebody.. but when there's a slight hint of hostility behind all of your posts it might cause others to question your motives. this is something I used to have a really huge problem with. i still go into "sarcastic aggression" mode every now and then but I'm trying to stop it. I have to make a conscious effort to avoid doing it EVERY time I post. you can tell tht i'm doing this by comparing my posts when the game is slow and my posts when the game is moving quickly... when conversation picks up I forget to not be a dick and that probably ruins my reads because they were reads I formed while "high" off of my own sarcasm
ahhh... that's the exact word I was looking for... sarcastic aggression.
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Yeah. I'm an asshole. Some people get away with it, but not me.
But I do agree with the above.
It's really hard not to post in those moments but yes . The best solution is probably to hold off pressing that post button and re read in 5min time.
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On the reading and writing of cases
+ Show Spoiler +This section was written D3 so there are some flips I haven't seen yet. Just FYI.
I saw a couple of people complaining/ranting this game that nobody read their cases. (Particularly thinking Cora, Onegu and Rayn here, though there may be others). I have a couple of things to say to you all.
1) I read everything you wrote at least once. I read everything at least once and I respond to what I choose to respond to, which is generally most of it eventually. Can any of you say you seriously evaluated Rayn's cases which he begged us to read D1 and posted your conclusions in the thread? 'cos I can.
Whatever you may think my opinion of you is, know that I do read what you write.
2) Just because you put effort into your cases doesn't mean I'm obliged to agree with you. And it doesn't mean that, even if you were right about someone's alignment, you made a case which proved it. Getting angry at me because you put effort in and I still don't agree with you solves nothing. Try to understand what my reservations are, and convince me.
3) If I have to spend as much time reading your case as you spent writing it to understand it, or even a significant fraction as long, your case needs to be refined more. Remember, I have to read everybody's cases AND write my own. Expecting me to spend as much time trying to understand your contribution as you spent on your contribution is not a reasonable expectation of me. I've waited to join a game of mafia until I had quite a lot of time to spend on it, but I don't have THAT much time.
I do have some advice for writing cases. I'm particularly thinking of Onegu's cases here since he particularly said it was a weakness of his (IIRC) but he's not the only one who could write more clearly.
1) Lead with a point indicating scum mentality, and then justify it.. When I read a "stream-of-consciousness" post or a list of posts ordered chronologically it is very difficult to follow your arguments. If you separate your quotes into sections based on what point you're proving with them it will help a lot.
2) Don't just tell me what they posted. I have already read the thread and I know (more or less) how the opinion of each player evolved in the game. You will probably need to quote them somewhat to justify your opinion, but don't quote them just for the sake of it. I want to see justified conclusions not rambling thoughts.
3) Less is more. The longer your post is, the harder it is to navigate and read. Two ways of dealing with this are:
a) Take out the less conclusive stuff. I'm not interested in posts which are mostly null.
b) Put quotes in spoilers. Put sections in spoilers. Separating sections into spoilers does wonders for the readability of a post.
Some other comments for particular players:
Thrawn, Sciberbia
I doubt I have much constructive I can say to either of you since you're both considerably more seasoned players than I. It was a pleasure to play with you both, though.
Chezinu
?
Earned yourself a nightkill though so well played on that basis.
Mocsta
Likewise, a pleasure. This was the towniest game I've ever seen you play (not entirely sure why I think that, but whatever). I still saw some questionable single-post reads and leaps of logic from you BUT you seemed to mostly identify the dodgy ones and filter them out of your eventual solid reads, which I was very happy to see.
I think Thrawn's answered your questions about your play more effectively than I could, so I'll leave that to him.
Bereft
You were clearly town and didn't rely on your doctor role as a crutch. There are probably improvements you could make to your play but I can't easily come up with any that haven't been mentioned already.
JarJarDrinks
Your lynch was unfortunate, but at that point in the game a townie was almost certainly going to get lynched; to lynch scum we'd have had to find Sciberbia (a comparatively active player) and lynch him, lynch an uncounterclaimed doctor in Holyflare, or lynch a slot which hadn't posted for 48+ hours. Your number came up on the dice rather than Onegu's. Sorry.
Onegu
I think part of the reason you get mislynched often as town (or at least, the reason I regarded you as at least possible scum this game) is that your arguments are, for lack of a better word, mechanical. That isn't a criticism of your play. What I'm trying to say is that I feel like you follow a fairly rigid process when making your reads and arguments, and it's a process which you could emulate quite closely as scum. I wouldn't be suprised to see you produce umpteen pages of notes as scum. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it is how I percieve your play.
As for improving your reads... I can tell you one or two things I think you're doing wrong but I'm not sure how constructive it'll be. Anyway. My feeling when I read your cases (particularly the one on Mocsta) was that you were looking through his filter and coming up with a plausible scum motivation for all of them. The step which I think was missing is to look at the posts and think "Is there a plausible town motivation as well?". You might also look at the stuff on case-writing above, though I think you already did a fair bit of that in the last case you posted (on Corazon?).
Holyflare, Alakaslam
Not having actually played scum I won't presume to offer you advice. Well played though.
I think I've already said everything I need to to Corazon and Rayn.
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On December 03 2013 14:12 Mocsta wrote:
Yeah. Often it makes me skill stupid.
Recently, scummy.
Sigh.
Reading this game you were the strongest townread I had (apart from aqua but I know him unreasonably well/half my life)
It *may* not have been you were the objectively towniest in the thread, you may still have been some percent of the time Mocsta (the one that brawls with Oats as any alignment pairing)
but there was so much play that did not match my standard Mocsta but was townie, it couldn't to my mind possibly be faked by you as scum this game. (yeah that means i look forward to you trying to fool me by playing to this meta when you are scum. (guilty secret: I even look forward more to the first time you fool me with it.)
On November 19 2013 19:58 marvellosity wrote:
.......
Posting quantity isn't your problem. When I see you doing silly things, I'm not thinking "gosh, if only Mocsta would post less, he wouldn't be doing these silly things". You don't really tend to post one-liners.
Whatever your deficiencies are, they're different, thought-process ones, not postcount ones.
Which i read and thought sick burns...
but you then proceed to play almost entirely not like that.
I am going to pay lot more attention to your early feel reads...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20261388
at the time I thought, "yeah cut it out Moc, Scib is just getting his feet wet slowly like Aqua is."
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On December 03 2013 13:38 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 13:28 yamato77 wrote:On December 03 2013 13:26 Aquanim wrote:
ALL? bold words Believe me, everyone could have played better than they did D1. In a majority lynch, every townie on the wagon is responsible for the mislynch. And even the ones not on the wagon, it's their responsibility to both argue down the townie wagon and propose a viable alternative lynch and make it convincing. Everyone. But the mislynch was intentional. Either way, Im curious to hear what you say after the read. I would love some pointers on how to not come across as "changing mind" all the time; whilst, trying to move the thread forward with new ideas/content.
@Mocsta
You came across as "changing your mind" all the time because you were changing your mind all the time. It's fine to change your mind as you discover new evidence, but reversing your position on old evidence hinders your progress and makes you lose credibility. You need to think things through to their conclusion once, rather than remaining undecided and then changing your mind later.
One example is that you originally liked my Cora case, and later called it terrible and scummy. Here is another example:
On November 27 2013 09:57 Mocsta wrote:
(E) Sciberbia posts has me at ughhh: Was just a consolidated post of 2 pages of my filter interactions but treated Bereft post exactly like me, so is town regardless of if Corazon was fake claiming.
On December 01 2013 21:04 Mocsta wrote:
(1) Without a re-read, Scibs Day2 vote looks bad as he came on board before consolidation time. The firm vote on HF isn't worth any points as Bereft essentially nailed HF forcing consolidation.
So does my vote on HF mean I'm town, or is it possible I just saw the writing on the wall and knew I had to bus him? You conclude the former in the first post and the latter in the second post. The latter conclusion turns out to be correct, and there is no reason you couldn't have come to it originally given enough thought.
Also, I recommend that you not preface points with things like "Without a reread". It just removes credibility from yourself, and implies that you may very well be changing your mind later. You did a similar thing on D2 when you voted me while admitting that you hadn't reread my filter, and I was able to take that opportunity to discredit you, and gauge how suspicious others such as Bereft and Onegu were of you. Before posting something like that, actually do the reread, and then make a conclusion that you feel good about and can stand behind.
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Yeah that's a good point actually.
I'm very guilty of being too excited to make a "content" and update later.
Definitely need to eliminate that in general.
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11589 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:32 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 13:28 yamato77 wrote:On December 03 2013 13:26 Aquanim wrote:
ALL? bold words Believe me, everyone could have played better than they did D1. In a majority lynch, every townie on the wagon is responsible for the mislynch. And even the ones not on the wagon, it's their responsibility to both argue down the townie wagon and propose a viable alternative lynch and make it convincing. Everyone. That's hard to do when all people can do for the last 12 hours is talking about Rayn. I was busy that day but even if I was in thread there wasn't much I could do to reverse the mob mentality.
I missed this post. You, I have a lot to say to.
The biggest problem I have with your play is that you take everything that happens in the game as a personal insult. You don't have any grounds on which to stand when you haven't established yourself as town. I had you as scum early on because of your early game play and some of the off-the-wall posts you make. When I see you react to pressure by whining and complaining that people think you are mafia, it frustrates me. It's your JOB AS A TOWNIE to PROVE YOU ARE TOWN to the thread with the way you play. The only reason I was able to identify you as town was because of just how incessant your complaints became. This is not a sustainable way to play town.
Secondly, you destroy thread atmosphere and people's motivation to play with the tone of your posts. Just as equally as you take everything personally, you make everything personal in your posts. Perhaps this is a good way to play mafia (as in scum), but when you're town, you are needlessly wrecking the thread every time you post. If people don't just ignore you (which is bad enough for a town player), they fight with you, which is further worsening the problem. You could IMMEDIATELY IMPROVE 10000% by removing your personal ego from the game entirely.
Lastly, take some personal responsibility for the game. You come out after what is to be a learning experience by blaming other players for the loss. You cannot simply blame others for your faulty reads. No matter how lurky, it is your job to attempt to read them as best you can. Circumstances are never ideal in a mafia game, so remind yourself every time you think this way that you play an equal role in the game as them, and attempt to overcome the challenges that you face in reading them.
I apologize if I come off as angry but I am. You and Rayn were the two largest problems with town on D1 and you need to understand why.
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@mocsta
the issue though is that i didn't feel he was +1ing me. i felt he was echoing my sentiments even if i hadn't voiced them out in the thread. my problem here is that i thought a thought process similar to my own HAD to be from a fellow townie.
it was only after onegu flipped town that i reread his filter and started to waver. it seemed more scummy than i remembered and more noticeable to me that he didn't push for his scum reads and stopped trying after day 2. but i couldn't understand why you were still trying to prod me into admitting that he must be scum. i felt that both you and scib if scum would be discerning enough to suspect that the vet claim was fake, so i started getting really paranoid that you might be trying to suss out who i was going to save. that's why i fos'ed cora and protected him.
in retrospect i should've focused more on increasing my chances of procuring a successful save (by going batshit on cora or something) than worrying about the situation i *might* find myself in if i successfully saved (that being figuring out which of you or scib were scum). what can i say -- i spazzed, and that's on me.
and i didn't actually realize i was meant to take up the town leader mantle. that all this time, *I* was the hero this town needed!
@axel, aqua, etc
thanks for the comments. got to get some sleep right now, but i'll be sure to read up all the post game analysis tomorrow.
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He might have been echoing but what's important is if you are always first. Then he is a plus 1.
I knew thrawn was town because at different times either of us had the same thought first and/or posted at the same time.
Full credit to scib for having a grasp of thread sentiment.
My plan was once u admitted he was +1 u.. I would show u how he plus 1d me to have no input.
But we never got that far
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Ah yeh, mocsta!
All I can do is pretty much echo what other people have said, yes, while I may have played trolly, initially I was making posts that demonstrated my thought process (that policy lynches actively go against win cons etc etc and you could read rayn bla bla) All you were doing was shutting me down at every point I could possibly make, if I was actually town then that is the kind of atmosphere that hinders any and all consideration for other people and yes you may have been town but you didn't know what alignment I was.
What I'm trying to say is that while you know your alignment, other people that paint you scummy aren't making points based on illogical merits that need to be discredited at every point, there are reasons they think the things they do and in a game of information the more information you can get from people the more likely they are to slip up. If you ushered in conversation instead of shutting it down (even if it was based around you) then the town atmosphere improves tenfold.
This isn't just a jab at you (tis constructive criticism) because other people are also guilty of the same thing. When people don't follow your reasoning or don't agree with your sentiment it's because they have their own thoughts, their own lines of inquisition. When a new theory is proposed it is looked upon with doubtful eyes because their own thought is seen through rose tinted glasses so they need convincing, a case may look good to you but it isn't always the most convincing thing in the world.
On the topic of cases, Onegu. I get that you spend a lot of time on your cases and that's how you play but from what I see (I know you put a butt tonne of effort into them) they are often seen with a tunnelled mindset. You decide someone is scum and then when one post goes out of line it confirms to you that they MUST be scum. The things you pick up on as scum tells - miscontruing posts etc etc. while yes, can be scum tells some of the time are most often coming from people that haven't fully read up on all the details, it's not alignment confirming. I don't know what to say on improving rather than to put yourself in their shoes. If you were scum would you blatantly put inconsistencies in your posts just so somebody else could point them out and be all "hey he's scum DIE", I don't think you would personally.
I think the main problem is that you have very little thread interaction. You return to the thread with a case on someone and then just debate the points brought up within your case, if someone disagrees then they are scummy or wrong and then you have to disappear again, I know this is due to time constraints etc because IRL is a huge burden but I suggest that if you devote time to playing mafia but know you don't have a lot of time then your playstyle would need to change from making cases of the nature that you do to bouncing off reads to people and discovering what they think and what their thought processes are. If you get people to explain what they are doing to the thread their motives become clearer and clearer and then the culmination of that CAN be a case. This would look like you actively developed the read and found substance on it rather than come out of the blue with a case that is self-confirmed.
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As far as the game itself, I can't really say anything other than the arguments ruined it for you. I was allowed to play scummy as hell and get away with it because so much attention was drawn away from me it was unreal. My claim allowed things like this to occur:
Holyflare
11-23-2013
10:04 PM ET (US)
Haha this works so well, they spend the day talking about my role only to realise "hey we can't lynch a potential doctor and we really don't know if he's scum or not" then they realise they have no real guess work for the day and default to their original scum trail of onegu. Successful day wasted.
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Why do I get blamed for the bad town atmosphere D1 when I played pretty calm. I tried to get Mocsta and Rayn to stop tunneling each other but I wasn't able to do that.
Sure D3 and D4 I fucked up the town atmosphere, but don't make general statements saying I was the problem the whole game when I wasn't.
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lol hf i wanted to lynch you for saying
"i will sheep thrawn, except for that one thing that thrawn is doing (lynching rayn) and probably will end up doing"
which basically meant you weren't going to do anything....
somehow I actually forgot you were in the game even after your doc claim, i didn't even mention you in my final reads post. i have no clue what happened there
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And tbh I'm getting way too much blame for the town's loss. Stop calling mafia a team game and then solely blaming Rayn and I for "messing up the town atmosphere".
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EPT
