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Chezinu
United States7447 Posts
Original Message From GMarshal: I don't see why not http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/ng5CcUah6CB and the undercover analyst is actually the second dragon. What Does this mean??!!?? | ||
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Chezinu
United States7447 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
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Chezinu
United States7447 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
The point still stands that no one said why Onegu wasn't as good of a lynch besides "I get this town vibe from the last few posts" when that could be scum trying to save their hides. No one said a bad thing about my Onegu case. No one tried to fault my logic. No one told me where I was wrong. That is why I was mad. I wasn't mad because people weren't agreeing with me, I was made because they told me they agreed with me but they really didn't. | ||
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Chezinu
United States7447 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:06 Bereft wrote: @HF - all part of the grand plan. would have worked brilliantly if only i could catch scum. It's ok cyborg, you just caught a robovirus in the hospital. You are still truly human. One day when you feel better, you can break out of that roboprison! | ||
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Chezinu
United States7447 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:08 cDgCorazon wrote: I wrote a TL;DR to my Onegu case that fit very well with the case. At least 2 players admitted that they did not read the case when I asked their feedback on it. The point still stands that no one said why Onegu wasn't as good of a lynch besides "I get this town vibe from the last few posts" when that could be scum trying to save their hides. No one said a bad thing about my Onegu case. No one tried to fault my logic. No one told me where I was wrong. That is why I was mad. I wasn't mad because people weren't agreeing with me, I was made because they told me they agreed with me but they really didn't. If it makes you feel better, I didn't read the case or agreed with you. I did think Onegu was a better lynch than JJ. lol | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
Mostly, I read D1. I'm not exactly useful past that point in mafia games but I excel there. I'll give my thoughts overall on how the game got derailed and why once it was thus derailed I think town was in a position to never recover from. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:26 Aquanim wrote: ALL? bold words Believe me, everyone could have played better than they did D1. In a majority lynch, every townie on the wagon is responsible for the mislynch. And even the ones not on the wagon, it's their responsibility to both argue down the townie wagon and propose a viable alternative lynch and make it convincing. Everyone. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Of course yamato means everyone except me. Very funny, rayn. I'm most disappointed in you, I actually thought you were past this kind of play. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:28 yamato77 wrote: Believe me, everyone could have played better than they did D1. In a majority lynch, every townie on the wagon is responsible for the mislynch. And even the ones not on the wagon, it's their responsibility to both argue down the townie wagon and propose a viable alternative lynch and make it convincing. Everyone. That's hard to do when all people can do for the last 12 hours is talking about Rayn. I was busy that day but even if I was in thread there wasn't much I could do to reverse the mob mentality. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
ohh well. I disagree with Rayn on so many levels about this game and his comments in the ObsQT but in the end, hes entitled to his opinion and i won't be changing that any time soon. Will just have to agree to disagree. Unfortunately I don't know what to do in situations like Onegu/Rayn as town. Both guys I fluctuated in my reads and tried to offer them an olive branch, and they spit it back. I suppose I am making an emotional connection by getting agitated by that gesture that I pursue them for lynch. I also suppose the natural reaction is for scum to get off the noose, so the tell is more indicative of town. I *really* didnt want to lynch Onegu that cycle, but he didnt want to join me with Sciberbia. I *really* did want to lynch Rayn. When he martryed; I had a 80/20 read on him (which he keeps harping on about) after the mislynch comment (where I was genuinely considering him to be town) I thought he was town, and turned into a 100% policy lynch. Rayns problem is that he assumes peoples comments are stagnant.. i.e. once its said, its said... maybe for him his process of thought flows like that.. but when I am town, I constantly re-evaluate information. The one thign that really pissed me off this game was discussion about town atmosphere Day1. The first half was perfect... we had all 3 scum down. Thrawn nailed LoneMeow I was all over Sciberbia and Aqua started Rean ---> This was also evident in the ScumQT. In one fell swoop this all disappeared. I am not going to blame individuals here because its pointless. Moreso, that was really frustrating to see. What started as a perfect game then denigrated to an abysmal mess culminating in a series of fake-claims that were intentionally planned off emotion not logic. Quick notes on people to meet the brief of playing this game: Rean - Managed to walk a fine line between new town / scummy during early game. I do think if you didn't replace you would have been caught though. Hard to give suggestions with such low content. thrawn2112 - Great early start. Started to fade out towards the end. I don't have any suggestions on what you could do to improve as you were direct with thoughts, but also listened to others with consideration. JJD - You played like a quintessential 'worker' townie. I think the sudden drop in activity was your down fall. I don't really know what more you could have done other than be more present. I thought you played well in establishing your townieness. Corazon - Nothing I can say here. Yes, you made it clear you were town vs scum and I suppose thats it. Your case on me was terrible, and it should not have taken Onegu being lynched to come to that realisation. Rayn - I dunno what happened. You started off well and went off the rails. My thoughts at the time were pretty clear, I explained I couldn't follow how you went from Rean is scum to Rean is town. Further, when I voiced these concerns you refused to join me in conversation. I dont care what happened afterwards. As town, being right is not even 10% of winning a game. You have to find a lynch, and campaign the lynch and achieve buy-in. You did everything in your power to lose credibiliity and that is FACT. Honestly if this game wasnt majority lynch, i would have let you live. But as I stated clearly in my filter (which you choose to ignore) I wanted you dead because I felt you would cause town to never consolidate. Whether that is right or wrong, can be discused now in post-game. Aquanim - Really shaky start. Felt distant and emotionally disconnected - which as per the obsqt you were trying to achieve. Later on became more involved and obviously became town. I think if I hadn't played with you in newbies you would have been a strong town read for the majority of the game. Because I had played with you in the newbies, I had expectations of you trying to not necessarily lead the town; but at least be an independent voicing issues -- you did gravitate towards this eventually. I think its hard in your case: you are more an analyser so need content; but may not necessarily be a generator (like rayn / myself). But as town you want to be present to indicate you are keen. Hence you are present but not doing much -- which summates your early Day1 which you got called out scummy for. Perhaps the best course of action is to be patient and wait for more content?? Onegu - I dunno what to say here either. I kept thinking you were town and everytime I gave you a chance you would throw it back at me. This is probably my fault more than yours because I should have realised that a tunneled townie is completely capable of this behaviour. I guess where I waivered was before your mislynch, where you were starting to not consider me as scum anymore.. and then once corazon posted his case, i became scum again. Again, my fault as that is plausible behaviuor for a tunneled town.. sigh Holyflare - Good work buying time and good fake claim. It was obvious you were scum but I had the track record where I couldnt push for that lynch. Played the blazinghand role to a tee. Sciberbia - Look you played well. Biggest thing I could say is to lift up activity end game as that really sold you as scum. I had lost too much credibility by that stage to push you though. Having said that, Corazons fake claim gave you too much free credibility as everyone (including from myself). I really think you gave yourself away early game with the attack on corazon though. Managed to settle in well-ish after though. jampidampi - Nothing to say. I really thought my case on him was good. sigh Chezinu - Did a great job of baiting a blue snipe. I dunno how I would rank him if he wasn't shot. I dont think I coudl walk away from not lynching him. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On December 03 2013 12:01 sciberbia wrote: gg all I was thinking about shooting Bereft on the last day to REALLY win in style but was gonna feel like an idiot if he was actually a vet. Thanks hosts for a well-hosted game. You did get protected by the doc twice that is pretty stylish. Reading along with the game, while you were the weaker of my strong town reads D1, {Thrawn, bereft, mocsta, and Aqua} it was mainly due to paranoia which I have now redoubled.  Towards the end your lack of activity as a towny and desire to play and solve the game would have been telling, but the problem is TL towns lately say/do things like this StrongTown Read playing a good game said: "This will be my last post until post-game. Yes, even if the game continues after Onegu." (note: I am fully aware of the context of that I just needed quote showing actual townies, I had strong town reads on peacing out.) Thus in comparison it was little hard finding you as scum. That is however what the game is so that is what it is. The point of the above is that while it is necessary to be strident and test and challenge probable(75%) townies, by doubting their towniness, just as Thrawn challenged Aqua D1, Aqua didnt take it personally in fact I believe he probably increased his town read on Thrawn for the (wrong but reality based)case on Aqua. So while it is required that you kick the other townies tires, if with the players you are playing with the end result is they give up then theres a problem. This is a team game, the really hard part as town is you have to work out how to be a team with other townies when there is a base 1/4 chance each one of them is scum. While it necessary and required that you do youtr own thing to catch scum, pissing on everyone elses ability to catch scum by making the game less fun for them, or making up bullshit cases to see reactions, is risky way to play in that it is not real hard to wind up doing more harm than good to your own team. some more coming here in mo... edit: its self evident I imagine but this last section is not implying it was scib behavior that was too strong. Apart from anything it would have been scibs(scum PM) job to do that, and other townies(PM) job to not do that. One best reason other townies should not do that is so that scum cant do that without just getting lynched. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:28 yamato77 wrote: But the mislynch was intentional.Believe me, everyone could have played better than they did D1. In a majority lynch, every townie on the wagon is responsible for the mislynch. And even the ones not on the wagon, it's their responsibility to both argue down the townie wagon and propose a viable alternative lynch and make it convincing. Everyone. Either way, Im curious to hear what you say after the read. I would love some pointers on how to not come across as "changing mind" all the time; whilst, trying to move the thread forward with new ideas/content. | ||
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:35 Aquanim wrote: Look, I take responsibility for my part in the Rayn lynch. I misread him and that's on me. But if you're generalising your points about bullying and shitting up town atmosphere to me, that I object to. In that respect, you played okay, but as Mocsta said, you had a weak early D1. Perhaps that is just how you play, but establishing that you are clearly town early is one of the most valuable things you can do as a player. I knew thrawn and Mocsta were town early on in the game just by how present and forward they were with their posts. Thread atmosphere is a culmination of every player's tone, however, and I do think it takes someone to mediate between feuding players to keep the game from degenerating. My criticism here is that no one seems to do this anymore, they just let two players argue incessantly. Hapa is a great town player in this regard, he is quick to both de-tunnel himself in those situations if he is arguing, and to step in if two others are destroying the thread. Someone has to mitigate the negativity. | ||
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