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11589 Posts
On December 03 2013 16:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Actually i do not think town was playing well for the first half of D1. Yes they were right, but for wrong reasons. Based on a case that was answered and noone updated their read on Rean after that, just said "but he is scum". Even when town is right like that it is not good play by any means. I tried to confront sciberbia about his weird "i wanna lynch Onegu but i am more interedsted in telling Aquanim should not be lynched than i am telling qwhy Onegu should be lynched". I even thought of making a case on him, but then Mocsta effectively shut down the discussion for god knows what reason.
Yes i ruined the second half of D1 and it was totally and only my fault, but i do not think the first half was "good play" either - regardless how right or wrong town was.
EDIT: yamato it's not a good thread atmosphere where everyone are just friends with each other. If noone confronts other people and where there are no conflicts it usually always ends up in a townie lynch. People just agreed on the first 2 things there were and i'd say it was 100% luck that one of the cases happened to be on scum. If Rean/Aqua would have both been town and I was not in the game ruining the end of D1 it would have been ideal scum atmosphere where noone does anything and all discussion is shut down.
There was plenty of discussion, you're insane. People being nice helps differentiate townies that are actually trying to find mafia and mafia who just want to appear to be nice. It's way too easy for mafia to hide when the thread devolves into stupid arguments. You were wrong about this in obs, you're wrong now. Just because Rean responded to the case doesn't make him town. There's a reason people moved OFF AQUA and ON REAN. It's because of the discussion generated around the two of them before you replaced in and did what you did.
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11589 Posts
It's really depressing to me that the two players who need to learn the most are both convinced they did nothing wrong.
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On December 03 2013 16:43 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 16:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Actually i do not think town was playing well for the first half of D1. Yes they were right, but for wrong reasons. Based on a case that was answered and noone updated their read on Rean after that, just said "but he is scum". Well it's hard to definitively say whether the reasons were right or not. Only Rean could really tell us for sure. But given that town moved off of a town wagon (Aquanim) onto a scum one (Rean) I'm inclined to think they were doing something right. And I felt the atmosphere was mostly constructive up until that point. Rayn I think you can make some good reads and sometimes look pretty smart, but presuming that you are right and everyone else in town is wrong to the point where you refuse to let town have their lynch is a bit much. I think you have to be more willing to concede the possibility that you are wrong (this goes for everyone).
My point is this:
JJD made the original case on Rean. That was the case people agreed on. JJD never questioned Rean about anything he said after that, nor did anyone else. Then i made him answer the points pointed at him in the case, and i found his answers reasonable. I dunno should i have done so, or not, but i did.
After that i unvoted him. Then other people came in and said "but Rean is scum" or "we should consolidate on Rean". That's retarded because the case is already answered to, and if people still think he is scum they should address and tear apart his answers. Noone did so. That made me think the votes on rean were either lazy townies or scum. Nobody updated the read on him, just called him scum based on something he already answered without reasonably commenting on the answers.
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On November 21 2013 17:46 thrawn2112 wrote:
lazy reads 2.0
scum
rean lonemeow and rayn or scib
damn I wish i would have explained my lazy reads because right now I can't remember what i was thinking when I wrote this post....maybe my personal secret to being good at mafia is to get high, use gut reads, and never put thought into anything? (jk obviously.. or not? this is what I'm asking)
Does anyone have any serious concerns with my play? ....other than how I handled rayn, I think I know exactly why I got that wrong (although I'm a bit surprised that we haven;t had an argument about policy lynching yet)
was I being too nice this game?
basically what I'm asking is this... should I go back to standard thrawn obvious spammy townie, or more what I did here?
weirdly enough... I think my play in this game resembles my play in my first newbie more than my play in any other game, and i had slightly better reads this game than I normally do which leads me to the conclusion that I've been dreading for a few months now, that my play is actually getting worse over time. i hope (hope, because if true, I know how to fix) that my problem is that I have decent gut (lazy) reads, but the more thought I put into a read, the more convoluted my thought process becomes and I end up over-thinking everything to the point where even I don't know what my reads are. see the later stages of desert mafia for examples.
tldr: 2 questions:
1 looking for criticism outside of how I handeled rayn
2 looking for advice, asking if I'm correct in my secret fear that I'm getting worse over time and I need to reinvent my play
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On December 03 2013 16:48 yamato77 wrote:
It's really depressing to me that the two players who need to learn the most are both convinced they did nothing wrong.
If you are referring to me i do know exactly what i did wrong.
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On December 03 2013 16:20 cDgCorazon wrote:
Yeah I'm done talking about this game. No one has any sympathy for how I feel and everyone uses my reactions as a way to indulge in their self-pity (Onegu, I'm looking at you) and continues to bash me without thinking about how I would feel from my PoV.
I can only take comfort in the fact that at least I understand what is going through my head when I play mafia.
Basicly, you arent worth my time anymore. I have played with you before, co hosted one of your games and played in a game you have hosted. None of these things will happen again, I will not play with you, will not play in a game you host, or cohost a game with you. I have more important things in my life than dealing with you. In my case I showed where you were being rude and uncorapative, then things just got worse. You are a hypocrite, you didnt read my case, I read your case on me and responded you didnt do the same for me. My mocsta case you didnt read, you just said it was great, and just now in postgame you talked about how bad it was, you made a player replace out. If someone said anything about you shut down. Yo
Whatever no need to write anymore. Not worth my time to deal with you.
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11589 Posts
thrawn - obviously town, a little backseat for my tastes.
You have good reads in general, and know how to play town, you just don't have that leader-y quality that top tier townies do.
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On December 03 2013 16:54 yamato77 wrote:
thrawn - obviously town, a little backseat for my tastes.
You have good reads in general, and know how to play town, you just don't have that leader-y quality that top tier townies do.
That being said, an entire town of leaders might not accomplish a whole lot, so I don't think this would be necessarily a bad thing.
@Onegu: besides what I've said already I don't really have any general advice for you, but if you have specific questions I (and/or other people) can try to answer them.
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11589 Posts
On December 03 2013 16:57 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 16:54 yamato77 wrote:
thrawn - obviously town, a little backseat for my tastes.
You have good reads in general, and know how to play town, you just don't have that leader-y quality that top tier townies do. That being said, an entire town of leaders might not accomplish a whole lot, so I don't think this would be necessarily a bad thing. @Onegu: besides what I've said already I don't really have any general advice for you, but if you have specific questions I (and/or other people) can try to answer them.
It helps to be able to lead when necessary.
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On December 03 2013 16:54 yamato77 wrote:
thrawn - obviously town, a little backseat for my tastes.
You have good reads in general, and know how to play town, you just don't have that leader-y quality that top tier townies do.
yeah that last bit resonates but in the opposite way that you intend it to
I think the problem is that I post so_damn_much that I almost confirm myself as town and then people start looking to the obvious townie to give them answers. That's not I responsibility I've earned and it definitely isn't one I want.
It looks like you're saying I should improve my leader-y qualities... but I actually disagree. Read the first 2 days of desert mafia if you want to know what happens when I become town leader. I'm too indecisive for that position. In the future I think I am going to go for more of a backseat role. My normal spammy play is so townie, just soooo townie, and I think I can suffer it being a little less townie if it means I get to hide my cards and nurture my suspicions a bit longer.
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11589 Posts
You can lead a town without posting a ton. Just point people in the right direction and involve the lurkier players and bam, town leader. You don't have to go "LYNCH THIS DUDE AND SHEEP MEEEEEEE"
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@thrawn
I've only seen your play recently, but I really doubt you are getting worse over time. Pretty much any skill is improved with practice. iirc people during desert mini were talking about how much better you were playing. And I thought you played pretty well this game. I don't think you should shy away from obtaining 'confirmed town status' if possible. Being able to establish yourself as town is very important to helping your team win, regardless of your alignment.
Also I agree with yamato. I think town could have used more leadership this game and you were in a good position to provide it. More than just trying to deduce who is scum, try to think about what town needs as a whole. What discussions need to take place? Who needs to post more? Who needs to be calmed down? What are the reasonable lynch options -- start some discussion on them.
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Yeah Ill talk more about play and my thought process later. And what I felt about everyone elses play later tonight.
@Mocsta I didnt say I wouldnt vote sciberia, just that I really felt he would flip town, and would prefer slam if not you or cora.
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On December 03 2013 12:12 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 12:09 Mocsta wrote:
Another thing that annoyed me was the thread dying both times I wasn't here.
Like I was the only person that filter dived holyflare and chezinu.
This is unacceptable. the sad part is that I would have voted scib and slam (last of course - he played along the best)... I still don't get he motive behind cDgCorazon. Can't wait to hear the explanation.
I am over the moon with this post good sir
Dude I had no Idea we won is that bad
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On December 03 2013 12:15 ObviousOne wrote:
Highlights from my QT, I won't share everything some of it was purely venting / something to write at since the analysts couldn't be my ears.
ObviousOnePerson was signed in when posted
11-21-2013
12:46 PM ET (US)
Okay so I can't really share my thoughts in the Analysts QT/Skype conversation so I will write them here. First thing: Rayn is going full retard with this "my town flip will confirm Mocsta and Bereft are scum". a) I know it's wrong by virtue of being co-host which is useless analysis but leads to point b. b)He goads people to vote for him, then uses different heuristics to gauge who/how people vote for him. There's no central theme to this except that he did something ridiculous and used that as the basis (what seems to be part meta, part Mocsta-logic (see TL Noir)) but really all traces back to him making a stupid move to begin with. The basis for that move? "No real opposition to the Rean lynch"
Let's fact check that for a moment. Oh look, Aquanim is also at 4 votes. So 8 of 12 votes accounted for, and he's blaming what could potentially be called general bad town play -- nobody is discussing why Rean is a bad lynch, or why Aquanim is a bad lynch, simply stating so in absolutes -- on the fact that it's a mislynch and "doing something about it" entitles him do this whacky move and use what he knows as a town lynch as leverage to lynch two other people.
What he doesn't know is that Bereft has a claim at his hands which he may or may not divulge unless he's seriously on the chopping block, and he's doing a great job at scum hunting so far from what I've seen despite not having a commanding thread presence. Mocsta (besides nailing two scum so far, I believe) is playing this pretty level-headed in comparison and pushing for Rayn's lynch for his actions is reasonable; at times I think it's almost necessary to lynch Rayn just for this move entirely.
Other than that, there were 5 votes on scum today and suddenly at this stage there are ZERO and it all traces back to Rayn's stunt.
ObviousOnePerson was signed in when posted
11-23-2013
05:20 AM ET (US)
Cora wants to know if Jampi will be modkilled. Confirmed mad.
No. Not responding to question. Jampi still fine. I he fails to post/vote for D2 then we shall see. Only rule he is breaking is GMarshal specific tidbit regarding activity being more than minimum and that's spelled out clearly enough.
Bereft doing it right going after the claimed doctor. They think someone else is doc so he will have to make it good in case he gets up for lynch. Counter-claim could be weird considering it's a protect on scum. Hopefully he spelled out a town read d1/n1.
Mafia getting town reads for really simple reasons / heuristics is kind of weird. Works in this environment considering the tumultuous day 1.
Thrawn especially guilty of above at this point. He's hiding his vote so maybe I'm wrong on that.
"bad aftertaste" I detest this for no rational reason because it's not a rational argument.
ObviousOnePerson was signed in when posted
11-24-2013
12:41 AM ET (US)
jampi down from the attitude /behavior of townies and has asked to be replaced
apparently one of the scum team is MIA as well.
nobody responding to my request for replacements so there might be two modkills today, I'll leave it up to GM hopefully he'll be back from MLG by deadline.
raynpelikoneet
11-23-2013
08:42 PM ET (US)
FUCKING IDIOTS THERE IS NO WAY HF IS SCUM!
Rayn now 0/6 on reads, I think the only scum he has called is Rean and he doesn't seem to be talking about rean at all in the obs qt. Maybe he needs a break from mafia if he's getting all worked up when he's already dead... just saying.
ObviousOnePerson was signed in when posted
11-25-2013
08:38 AM ET (US)
As far as I know nobody else needs replacing. (rean) never got back to me hopefully nothing bad happened to him just tried checking in to see if he was okay and heard nothing back.
Super hard to not troll the analysts. Thankfully my Internet cut out for hours at a time.
Love how Chez has nailed 2 scum already and nobody realized it.
Thrawn vs Cora thing needs to die in a fire hopefully they have worked it out. Cora may need some interpersonal coaching (I'll take some lessons too) to get along with people in mafia.
You are so beautiful to me
Then I stopped writing stuff in the QT. Town did enough infighting that mafia just had to stand around nodding and gently prodding, if that was even necessary. The fake claim last night from scib was weird but I put my HEART AND SOUL INTO IT GODDAMNIT READ THAT GORGEOUS FLAVOR TEXT ABOUT A POLISH GUY that had absolutely no bearing on the game but was super fun to write.
RE: Replacements
Jampi replaced out based on how he was treated in-game, I think GMarshal will be talking about this.
Rean was ill and forgot about the game while trying to get better.
Lonemeow ended up getting offered extra hours at work and took them thus replacing out.
INDEED
 CHEZINU
I fear him as scum
If slam is in game with chezinu be prepared for :O from alakafish
I knowest not how but I seek the way. . .
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no ack why you all write so fast
I can't keep up and I'm even on my laptop for once now
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On December 03 2013 12:27 Rean wrote:
Sorry for the inactivity guys, was feeling out of it and figured I'd be okay if I skipped the first 24 hours of day but ended up forgetting about it entirely ._.
Also, I really dislike being scum, I felt so damn pressured and paniced anytime anyone even mentioned me. Thank god for Rayn <3 (please don't hate me now)
no no on thank you you are the best
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On December 03 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
need to not take acid during the middle of a mafia game.. maybe i would have been less eager to town read everyone for no reason
I've talked about why I'm bad for lynching rayn in the obs qt..
I think my other biggest problem was letting Corazon get on my nerves. I stopped caring during D2. I knew Cor was town... but what should I do in that situation? I didn't feel like there was any action I could take other than lynching Onegu that wouldn't end up with Corazon interrupting every single conversation I tried to start.
I wrote a lot more than this but it became more and more about other people instead of myself so I will stop here for now. I'll continue after... after the flames of passion have died down.
then I don't need to take acid to be on aci-
DUDE KUSHMASTA YOU SEE THIS? BRIAN ENO
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On December 03 2013 17:27 Onegu wrote:
Yeah Ill talk more about play and my thought process later. And what I felt about everyone elses play later tonight.
@Mocsta I didnt say I wouldnt vote sciberia, just that I really felt he would flip town, and would prefer slam if not you or cora.
I wouldnt mind hearing where you were coming from with the "thread captainism"
I never got that.
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On December 03 2013 12:51 Chezinu wrote:
Slam, you were right in the scum qt. I would have known if you would have switched votes to save HF -- good play. The truth is I was being selfish. We both knew if the other die, the other would get lynched since we both replaced. That was a good argument you made early in the thread. Despite you copying my replacement methods to act as town, I chose the brown. So, I decided to ignore you at first and live til it was time for me to die after the Day of The Brown.
Chezinu instills fear in the scum alakaslam
deep fear
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EPT
