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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:04 Chezinu wrote: The truth... I didn't really read the thread... so, I don't really have much post-analysis. I just did reactionary reads like I said. Based reads on breaking Chezinu Rule and contradictions in statements. Ditto the bold | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
Your process of considering "does this need to be said, does it benefit town," is IMO a good one. and one i would like to play with win or lose. Hapa can ask that question before each post when directing traffic in the thread and say "yes" every time. So that heuristic alone does not result in a lay back play style. One thing that will need to be considered in, "does it benefit town," (help find scum) is "does it help other townies eliminate me from their suspect pool and use their time effectively." Considering question of how it helps other townies play will prevent a more laid back style going lurky which is then, easy to play BUT less rewarding to play, (as you could have phoned it in) easy to emulate as scum, (is like cheese based victories in SC2) hence distracting and wasteful of town time as other townies find it hard to read. Even if you play has been clearly continuously improving, thinking about how you play is IMO always useful. As in its always a good idea to re-evaluate where you are at. I have reread my filter from some previous games more than once. I learned new stuff every time. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:41 Bereft wrote: moc, why aren't i on your list?  ![[image loading]](http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/pokemon-blue-version/d/dd/Ditto.gif) Always ditto | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
Basically, I rode high on Rean smallishness and replacing so I apologize for the abuse because scum apologize. My postgame analysis: I am unskilled, I go to read House of Chezinu a few times | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Talking about the setup is somewhat productive IMO but people always call me scum for it. Making a hello post and then lurking is generally seen as scummy. When I try to force scumhunting people get mad that my cases are somewhat weak (what do you expect it's 2 hours into the game). I really dislike trolling at the start of the game. I find it really unproductive for town. I've never tried just saying nothing at all and making my first post later. It just doesn't sit right with me. I never actively lurk as town. Furthermore, someone has to find a way to generate discussion so who am I to make somebody else do it. Thoughts? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On December 03 2013 18:08 sciberbia wrote: One thing I'd like some advice on is how to look townie in the first 4 hours of the game. Almost every game I play it seems someone calls me scummy based off my posts in the first 4 hours. And that was the only point at which I was under any serious pressure this game. I see a few different ways to play it:
Talking about the setup is somewhat productive IMO but people always call me scum for it. Making a hello post and then lurking is generally seen as scummy. When I try to force scumhunting people get mad that my cases are somewhat weak (what do you expect it's 2 hours into the game). I really dislike trolling at the start of the game. I find it really unproductive for town. I've never tried just saying nothing at all and making my first post later. It just doesn't sit right with me. I never actively lurk as town. Furthermore, someone has to find a way to generate discussion so who am I to make somebody else do it. Thoughts? If I told you you would know every time I was scum Lol jk. Basically, try to correct mistakes and point out logic flaws, add your own logic. My problem is, that is basically all I know how todo as town. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 03 2013 12:07 VisceraEyes wrote: It's hard to analyze this game without mentioning Cora bullying the entire town all game long while simultaneously playing the victim. It made the game hard to watch, I can only imagine how hard it must have been to play. Cora, I think you're a fine person, but you really need to consider whether an argumentative game like Mafia is for you. This many times over. All the analysers basically stopped following the game on Day 2 properly because Corazon made the game horrible to read. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On December 03 2013 18:08 sciberbia wrote: One thing I'd like some advice on is how to look townie in the first 4 hours of the game. Almost every game I play it seems someone calls me scummy based off my posts in the first 4 hours. And that was the only point at which I was under any serious pressure this game. I see a few different ways to play it:
Talking about the setup is somewhat productive IMO but people always call me scum for it. Making a hello post and then lurking is generally seen as scummy. When I try to force scumhunting people get mad that my cases are somewhat weak (what do you expect it's 2 hours into the game). I really dislike trolling at the start of the game. I find it really unproductive for town. I've never tried just saying nothing at all and making my first post later. It just doesn't sit right with me. I never actively lurk as town. Furthermore, someone has to find a way to generate discussion so who am I to make somebody else do it. Thoughts? I have seen many things work. However its a bit like when people say "but I explained how every point in your case was trash and you still voted me!" The devil is in the details, otherwise the game would be easy an there'd be a recipe for how to be scum. For instance recently BH opened with his RNG gambit a few times. Each time he was town I read him as town and saw towniness in what he did. I am pretty sure a scum someone else opened with it and it looked scummy when they did it. (both only small reads but they turned out true.) hence its in the details.... Be Bold. Start of I swear(link) I was scum, but it still applies. I saw the thread had no one in it. My pregame plan had been to lurk for a short while then come in when I found something useful to press someone on. But the dead thread made me on the fly decided to jump right into the light and go "Look at me". I made purposeful BS cases voted for mayor. I think that started a town read on me for some people. If you do it and get the details right I will town read you for it. Be focussed. As Thrawn has said choose what to talk about. Other people may call you scummy, as they did Aqua, but if you are picking and choosing what is worth saying, I will read you as town. Random BS/Policy/other phase or something needs to happen so that the bit, that you like, can start. I recently read a Vets posts in an ongoing game, as town, from just a few posts, because they were just so what needed to be said at that time. No more no less. No agenda, no harm, no foul. Town. I could be wrong EASILY, but its the start of a lean/read for me. Aggression [*] try to FORCE scumhunting even if not much to go on (what I did this game) You could try to behave in such an aggressive way no no one will dare say they suspect you otherwise you will OMGUS them... You can force scum hunting, and "even if not much to go on" make accusations anyway, which in some abstract sense is what random BS phase is, except it starts at zero real stuff to go on. (see the URL above, I made a case on Oats, when I was the only poster in the thread.... I based it on posts he made in a previous game. BS indeed. I'd have town read someone who attacked me (with the claws in) over that. Why? They jumped into the light and someone will shortly attack them for being so silly as to attack me over that. Set self up? [*] make a hello post and then lurk You can purposefully make a bad but no scum intent post then lurk, and thus go fishing for someone looking for easy stuff to criticise. In some sense my Oats case above is doing that (except I didn't lurk). In some real sense I am saying that as town attracting suspicion and have someone reasonable quiz you is good for you as town and maybe not such bad thing. I suspect you like me, "like to watch". To have more active playstyle that will quicker on D1 get read as town. (even when scum) I would suggest what you need to do is to find things you can do, where you have enough experience doing them that, after you do X, they town does Y whereas scum does Z usually because they forget they were meant to be doing Y. In terms of town reading you early D1. Moc suspected you. I had town reads on Aqua,Thrawn,Bereft, and you very early D1. There were more question marks on you because what you had done I estimated you could replicate as scum. largely, I am not sure what the problem with being suspected early on D1 as town or scum is? Someone suspects you... cool. be responsive to them but don't cow tow. meanwhile find someone you suspect, make sure if you are one of the two D1 wagons the other one gets lynched. ALSO check if the guy suspecting you is for real or is pretending to suspect you as way of driving lynch that wont happen so that way they have clean hands on the D1 lynch. As scib in most games you are unlikely as D1 lynch anyway just on principle. What principle? I try not to lynch the people that scum want to shoot if those people are town. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I was suspicious of Bereft for his push on rayn but he really managed to look townier as the game progressed. Mocsta and thrawn looked town all game long Aquanim started weakly but again really proved himself as the game went along. I thought Holyflare might be town N1 but then on D2 it came quite obvious that he wasn't :p Onegu was not as "scummy" as was claimed. sciberbia's Day 1 had me fooled, never really read his posts afterwards when I stopped properly following the game. I would say I saw his post after Onegu got lynched ("oh no, woe is me"), and if Bereft had pulled off a save then scib is auto-lynch. rayn for reasons totally unknown to me still hard-defended Rean for no reason. Just nonsense actually. On December 03 2013 16:43 sciberbia wrote: Rayn I think you can make some good reads and sometimes look pretty smart, but presuming that you are right and everyone else in town is wrong to the point where you refuse to let town have their lynch is a bit much. I think you have to be more willing to concede the possibility that you are wrong (this goes for everyone). This is correct | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
I don't blame you, it's entirely understandable. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On December 03 2013 21:12 yamato77 wrote: Honestly, I'm not that good post D1 anyway. Well (shhh) in that case its a good thing you got killed N1 in the champions game... + Show Spoiler + BTW belated congrats on going onto the next phase. All you have to do is get NK n1 again and your secret will be safe. Also you seem ok at post game commentary. Well I found it informative anyways. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
I was expecting some discussion on the mechanics leading to viability of the policy lynch. Seeing rayn yell I'm scum in the obsqt, I feel vindicated for the policy lynch. | ||
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
have you considered other reasons why town didn't listen to your case on onegu other than us ganging up on you? maybe it's because your case on onegu wasn't that good! and maybe it's because onegu wasn't actually that scummy! the very fact that people you knew were town found no cause to hammer onegu even after reading your case should've prompted you to reevaluate or at least wonder what they were seeing that you didn't. you refused to hammer a CONFIRMED SCUM on the basis that you wanted to force an onegu lynch. is it not obvious how ridiculously you were playing?? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On December 03 2013 18:08 sciberbia wrote: One thing I'd like some advice on is how to look townie in the first 4 hours of the game. Almost every game I play it seems someone calls me scummy based off my posts in the first 4 hours. And that was the only point at which I was under any serious pressure this game. I see a few different ways to play it:
Talking about the setup is somewhat productive IMO but people always call me scum for it. Making a hello post and then lurking is generally seen as scummy. When I try to force scumhunting people get mad that my cases are somewhat weak (what do you expect it's 2 hours into the game). I really dislike trolling at the start of the game. I find it really unproductive for town. I've never tried just saying nothing at all and making my first post later. It just doesn't sit right with me. I never actively lurk as town. Furthermore, someone has to find a way to generate discussion so who am I to make somebody else do it. Thoughts? Are you talking about as town or scum? When I coach, I tell the newbies that early game town/scum gotta play the same - but to me that is from a simplistic viewpoint. Really, what do you want to achieve? As town, you can do any and take the heat. You have your role PM and that should be enough to shine through - for players of your calibre at least. As scum, which option is best I suppose depends on variables such as the time you want to commit, win in style, players in the game, players in your team. Heck, are you the first poster? I think it comes down to what HF said. "Move the thread forward". Town don't know who each other is, so "forward" is subjective, and thus, there is no clear answer. All I know is: early game I felt you were trying to hinder progress (as my posts outlined to you). Sorry for being vague, but I think in general scum play needs to be adaptive to the needs of the thread at the time. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
The vast majority of my posting as scum is just me trying to emulate to a large degree what I would post as town, and the early D1 was no exception, but you and Cora still called me scum for it. I think later you pointed out a few legitimate scumtells on me, but I don't think my post on Cora was alignment indicative. I was planning on starting the game like that regardless of my alignment. That's probably why I got so mad when you tried to call me scum for it. | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On December 03 2013 14:32 Aquanim wrote: I personally think lynching the slot that hadn't posted in 48+ hours is autoplay here. ESPECIALLY when the slot was the leading wagon on day 1 when he should have been lynched. JarJarDrinks Your lynch was unfortunate, but at that point in the game a townie was almost certainly going to get lynched; to lynch scum we'd have had to find Sciberbia (a comparatively active player) and lynch him, lynch an uncounterclaimed doctor in Holyflare, or lynch a slot which hadn't posted for 48+ hours. Your number came up on the dice rather than Onegu's. Sorry. I hated the fact that that town sentiment was me or Onegu since Onegu was always a town-read for me this game. On December 03 2013 16:41 Aquanim wrote: I think If I would have been able to get active about a half day sooner, I get myself out of the lynch. You could tell by the time the deadline came, most of the town wasn't comfortable killing me anymore.(JarJar's position was quite awkward since I believe he wasn't around for most of D2 to defend himself. Therefore, I don't blame him - but even if his absense wasn't his fault, that didn't help us stop a mislynch.) | ||
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