EPT/in
TL Mafia LXIII: Time to Die
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LoneMeow
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LoneMeow
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This one, maybe: | ||
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I read my role and it said to send the PM "at the beginning of cycle". It already being quite a few hours since the cycle started when I woke up, I just looked at the player list and picked someone before reading the thread. | ||
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On November 15 2013 22:57 Mocsta wrote: LoneMeow Is it safe to assume you have caught up on the thread? Yes, I'm caught up now. | ||
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On November 15 2013 23:06 Mocsta wrote: Anything sticking out to you worth discussing? Do you have an opinion Storrzergs play? I'd like to hear if you think yamato outing me is alignment indicative or not. Something about raynpelikoneet is bothering me, but I can't pin it down on any specific post. I didn't like how strongly he defended me, though. I was really surprised to hear StorrZerg is not a new player, considering he's played in newbies recently. That makes me a bit confused about how to read him. As the StorrZerg I watched play in newbie game, I'd give him a null, but if he's supposed to be more experienced I'm not so sure if I should be instead leaning scum on him. | ||
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On November 15 2013 23:12 Koshi wrote: rofl. Nha. Why Yamato? Because I got the impression that he's pretty solid player when he's town from LXII, so I want to know if he's town in this one, and I think I stand a better chance outside the thread. | ||
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On November 15 2013 23:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't understand this. Are saying you are acting scummy? No, I'm saying your logic isn't sound enough to be so sure I'm town. | ||
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On November 15 2013 23:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: yamato you are the only person who i am confident can actually read me on D1. Can you tell these fuckers to look somewhere else because atm the thread is about which one of these two townies (me/lonemeow) is scum and it really does not help. Who's your top scum suspect that you'd prefer we look into instead? | ||
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On November 16 2013 16:28 Pandain wrote: Going to vote for Yamato because I don't have faith in VE if he thinks Skanjabs is scum. Also he might lynch me so there's that. I think Yamato is going to end up lynching my scum reads and agree with me, we tend to agree on the same things actually. Why isn't Skanjab1s scum? | ||
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##Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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On November 16 2013 18:00 Skanjab1s wrote: Why am I scum LoneMeow, for is it not on the bearer of suspicion to claim the reasoning behind it? I don't know if you are, there's not much in your filter to go by (pot calling the kettle, yeah). What I want to know, why is Pandain so certain you aren't. | ||
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On November 16 2013 18:00 Skanjab1s wrote: I think yam is town too, mostly based on him thinking that his early play was super pro-town, which is what I sometimes (incorrectly) think when I want to be a good, leadershipy townie. Its the "how could anyone ever think I'm scum" mentality that scum don't usually have (and a mentality I doubt that he would have, considering that he is supposedly pretty bad as scum). I thought yamato was town, but I'm less sure now, he hasn't really engaged with me in the mason QT and that bothers me. | ||
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On November 16 2013 18:12 Skanjab1s wrote: Why do you prefer VE over the other mayoral candidates? He looks town to me and his lynch choices have been reasonable, although I liked the earlier choices more than the current ones I think. | ||
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On November 16 2013 18:22 Skanjab1s wrote: But he is going to lynch off his current choices, not his earlier ones! His lynch choices just seem to be mainly inactives though. Surely you, being not-so-active, shouldn't find these very suitable? His current choices are also acceptable to me. And the fact that I agreed with his earlier choices makes me more certain that he's not scum - my #1 priority is getting a town player voted as mayor, getting a good lynch is secondary to that. Why should my inactivity make me not want to lynch another inactive? It is true that there's generally scum along the lurkers, and I know I'm not scum, so lynching another lurker seems like a reasonably good proposition to me. | ||
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On November 16 2013 18:24 Spaghetticus wrote: If you're all going to ignore me, I assume I'm doing something wrong. Can you at least tell me why I'm being ignored so I can go about fixing it? + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2013 03:50 Spaghetticus wrote: I’m comfortable with confirming Yamato town. This may seem redundant since that’s the general consensus, but I’m very stringent so this is actually a pretty big step. On my next readthrough I’ll be fine tooth combing for Mocsta and VE. I’ve got precious history with Mocsta, but he’s also quite active. I want to confirm him town if possible. VE seems like the next most obvious, given the amount of material he has provided. I don’t like some of VE’s towncalls, but I think they’ve already been covered by others. LoneMeow masoning incident: I find this unsuspicious. I’m probably more interested in those who tried to force this to be an issue. Artanis and SS: SS seems dense. The projected paradigm within which he claims to view the world where everyone’s decision making is based entirely on the single factor of whether or not victory is achieved, is silly. Does he seriously expect people to sit through a month of his needless abuse in order to slightly increase their chances of winning a prizeless endeavour? Does he seriously think that by espousing his (so far generally unimpressive) logic to the exclusion of compromise in the pursuit of cooperation, he will achieve his intended position of mayor? I understand that some people have difficulty getting along with others, but it seems to me a cover. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on his meta. For someone who proclaims his own competency as a vet at the beginning of the thread, this incompetency is not consistent from my (admittedly limited) perspective. It could very easily be used to obscure scummy motives. Admittedly, there have also been town tells. I've mixed feelings here. Grack: The trolling seems a poor move. BC is hammering him, and IMO rightly so. Grack has fluffed, and Grack has not done much else. I can only think that: - Grack does not care (useless town) - Grack is in some way trying to modify his meta (unlikely) - Grack is trying to scumbait (somewhat more likely) - Grack is scum (most likely) The Kush4prez line was possibly scumbait, but honestly I don’t see how a town Grack was planning on taking that bait (if successful) and then convincing town of his plan post hoc. The inevitable arse biting his actions have reaped was entirely foreseeable. It’s difficult to see him as town, as his actions have caused little but discord. Yamato lynching BC: I’m not sure, but did I miss the case? I see BC as good, I don’t want him to be scum. I’m not sure why that makes us need to lynch him without further information, as so far he’s been valuable. Unless I’m missing something, Mocsta was right to demand more reasoning for yamato’s platform based on BC. That said, Mocsta’s reasoning about cost/benefit for lynching BC confused me. If it’s what I think it is, it’s suspiciously dull. Sharrant: I’m not entirely certain how this became a thing, I’ll look into it in my next read. There didn't seem enough information at the time to make reads, that it was mentioned so many times sort of makes me think of artificial intervention. Kushmasta: His propensity for unpredictable play makes him unsuitable for mayor. Everyone knows this, though I think some take it too far. Policy lynching him seems both poor play and in poor taste. Using him as a vehicle for lynchbait/trolling is also pretty shit. I think people attempting to bring Kush into the spotlight are hard pressed to provide a believable town motive. Other than that, there are a lot of people that are sliding around on my scale, but also a lot of undercommitment in posts. If you have a read, please don’t just state your conclusion, as it only begs the question, and junks up the thread with people demanding that you elaborate. You may feel like you’re getting straight to the point #lessismore #quietconfidence but the end result is a less cohesive discussion, and a less effective town. "Useless list post blah blah blah." Actually, you promised to look into Sharrant in that. What was the result of that? | ||
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LoneMeow
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On November 16 2013 18:32 Skanjab1s wrote: But lynching them just because they are a lurker is rather hypocritical, don't you think? Why do you agree with someone's choices when the reasoning for lynching their candidates is exactly the same for lynching you? If you are scum, then I can see how you would think this is acceptable (ie: "The reasons that I am scum are the same for them, therefore I can support this"), but as town it makes less sense (ie: "The same reasons apply to me as town, therefore they are scum"). Why should I think everyone who plays like me is of the same alignment? Like I said, in my experience there's scum among the lurkers, so a lurker lynch on D1 is a reasonably good choice. Irregardless of whether I fit the criteria myself. | ||
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On November 16 2013 19:08 Spaghetticus wrote: Thankyou SLam and Skan for listening. (1) - This is my first big game, I'm finding it difficult to get a handle. It is valuable to confirm town so that I have a platform on which to grasp the rest of the game. There is no hard confirmation that Yamato is town, but I'm comfortable betting the fate of town that he is, and will thus use this as an operationalised foundation for my understanding to follow. I do not want Yamato as mayor or pardner, I do not agree with his views of BC, not his views that the pardner role benefits town. I do not trust him to use wither role well. Wouldn't it be more important to choose a town player as the mayor over someone who might or might not be town but has good-looking lynch targets? If you're so sure yamato is town why wouldn't you want him as the mayor or pardoner over someone you're less sure of? On November 16 2013 19:08 Spaghetticus wrote: (2) - It's an incident, but I don't see much reason for it to indicate scumminess. There may be some mechanic or rule I am unaware of, but nobody made any good case for this indicating scum-hood. I don't think that this makes Meow town, but those that were pushing for it making him scum were sewing misdirection either intentionally or unintentionally (unless I am wrong to conclude that it's non-alignment indicative, in which case someone should step forward and straighten me out). You only considered one side of the incident, what do you think it makes of yamato? | ||
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On November 16 2013 21:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Anyone else around to bounce reads with? I'm feeling a bit of one on one read bouncing but Onegu doesn't seem to be capable of that right now on his phone  I am semi here, who do you want to talk about? | ||
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On November 16 2013 22:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The idea is to bounce reads off of one another. I ask you about someone, you answer me and ask me about someone. What do you think about BC? I'll give BC "leaning slightly town". I don't see anything especially scummy in his posts. | ||
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On November 16 2013 22:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So you see something slightly townie in his filter? Could you expand on what gives you that feel? And could you ask me about someone you find interesting? The idea of this little excercise is to get better reads for both of us on eachother and get other perspectives on the people we ask about. Your answer doesn't really help in that regard. I find his early reads agreeable and his agenda town, pushing players who are definitely not playing pro-town. I'd like to hear what you think about yamato, seeing as he's the "second option" for mayor right now. | ||
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On November 16 2013 23:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: What do you think about Spaghetticus? Before his VE case I'd have said completely null. I haven't fully analyzed the case yet, but just the fact that he's pushing someone most consider town makes him either quite ballsy scum or town, and I'd be tempted to think the latter is more probable (NB: I'm not aware of his meta). What do you think of raynpelikoneet? | ||
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On November 18 2013 07:09 yamato77 wrote: Instead of picking apart night phase posts (which seem to be mostly spam), I'm going to give my list of townish reads and try to work out who is mafia from the remainder: Vayne - not posting much but he's making more sense to me than I expected Grack - similar to Vayne, kinda scummy (activity-wise) at times but overall not how I expect him to play as mafia Spaghetticus - Doesn't trust VE, seems to be reading well, like his posts BC - We argued but he seems townish coming out of it, like in LXI Mig - Posts make sense, didn't look at notes but he seems interested in the game Coag - not posting much but he never does, basically trusting that he wouldn't post at all as mafia Moc - unusual cases but involved. Pandain - relatively involved, not playing overly trollish like Thug Austin - I like his return to the thread and how he pushes people for activity I have too many question marks, and even these reads aren't that solid. Anyone want to discuss? I'll be around sporadically. What made you change your mind about Grack? | ||
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##Vote: BlazingHand | ||
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On November 18 2013 20:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I can't help but notice that two of the three scumshots were people critical of VE (Yamato, Spaghetticus). StorrZerg doesn't count since it was the only shot Mocsta could make if he wanted to claim, and even he wasn't positive about VE. I'm not sure if it's a set up or if we should be looking into our mayor with a lot more scrutiny than before. I could perhaps buy yamato and Spaghetticus being shot because they looked extremely towny, but why was Sharrant shot? | ||
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On November 19 2013 00:02 Onegu wrote: Rayn is heavy heavy town to me, I was able to spot him as scum in witchcraft early. This game is really different his tunnels have meaning and conviction that they lacked in WC mafia. Oats I am null on I still havent got to his filter yet as I have been lazy today. My notes on pandain I have him as town and dont really see why people are calling him really scummy, but I also have never really played with him either. Give me reads on HF, VA, VE I had a strong town read on VisceraEyes during D1 but the flips make him look far worse, so he's null, maybe leaning slightly on scum now. VayneAuthority was completely off my radar earlier, but his pressure on me after the Mocsta flip makes him look town to me now. HolyFlare I just can't read. If I had to guess right now, I'd go with him being town and the argument between him and raynpelikoneet being town-on-town. | ||
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On November 19 2013 01:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Basically BC should be calling thrawn, Pandain and Lonemeow scum because they have outed masons in thread for no reason. Who have I outed? yamato outed me. | ||
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On November 19 2013 03:26 VayneAuthority wrote: Slightly town: Koshi, Coag, Pandain, Supersoft Why is Coagulation even slightly town when he's done pretty much nothing at all the entire game? | ||
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On November 19 2013 15:11 Pandain wrote: I think Mig is extremely solidly town. His notes page he linked previously is online and still visible to actually see in fact. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag5xQ7DQZXySdGlfcWVTaE5qbUJ3Wm91TUFGSFJsS0E&usp=sharing The fact he is updating these without flaunting his notes or mentioning them leads me to believe they're honest notes. Furthermore, Mig doesn't pull these kinds of meta tricks nor would he have time to(in my opinion playing with him in Whiteflag). He has constantly updated them, changed reads, and the reasons are valid enough. Is there anything besides the spreadsheet you could point out that makes him look like town to you? | ||
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On November 19 2013 15:32 Pandain wrote: What do you think about the accusations against you? The Hogwards/Noir meta comparison is pretty worthless, it assumes that I wouldn't try to improve my town play after the disaster that was Noir. I agree that Mocsta's interaction with me looks weird. | ||
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On November 19 2013 17:05 Alakaslam wrote: I mean my vote is on Raynepelikoneet and FoS on lonemeow and Kush because when I started to actually dig into Raynepelikoneet they both came out of the woodwork Why aren't you pursuing your FoS targets? | ||
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On November 19 2013 17:19 Koshi wrote: LoneMeow, could you tell me your top 3 scumreads of the active posters and your biggest scumread under the lurkers? Not sure what you'll count as active, but: BlazingHand Pandain HolyFlare And of the lurkers, Mattchew. | ||
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On November 19 2013 17:23 Koshi wrote: Also how are you standing on VE atm? Leaning slightly scum on him. Can't blame him too much for the mislynch since I was okay with his choices pre-deadline myself, but his lack of doing anything useful during D2 combined with the reads of flipped town players make him look suspicious now. | ||
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On November 19 2013 22:20 Holyflare wrote: Not only has BH been afk for almost the entirety of day 1 but the only read he has is grack. He admits he has no time and has a new job and so cannot invest any good time into getting a read. His reads are therefore worthless. Why on earth did he even sign up? God only knows. Do you remember Hogwarts obs QT? I am not going to believe any sob stories about being busy and such from BH after that. | ||
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On November 20 2013 08:21 Pandain wrote: Okay I just finished analyzing everyone but Slam, I'll do that later. Right now i have scum reads most heavily on Lonemeow, heavy reads on Holy and Oats, and then am really suspicious of Coag/Mattchew/Risen. Could you explain your read on me? | ||
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On November 20 2013 21:58 Onegu wrote: BTW I think I can read rayn now, Im really confident he is town. Slam seems town also they should stop fighting. Why is Alakaslam town? He's done pretty much nothing after a reasonably coherent start and the latter part of his filter is largely just clutter. | ||
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On November 20 2013 22:16 OOHCHILD wrote: Lonemeow it would be great to get some scumreads from you along with at least short reasons why. Pandain - Looked terrible, then a bit better, now I'm his top scum read without any explanation or mention of me earlier, puts him back on the list. Mig - The only thing that he has going for him is his spreadsheet, and there's only so far I'm prepared to let that carry him. Filter full of nothing useful. austinmcc - I was already slightly suspicious and the mason chat log gave me the impression he wasn't really trying to solve the game very hard at all. I wouldn't be against lynching Mattchew if we want to lynch a lurker, he's been just completely useless. | ||
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On November 20 2013 22:29 Onegu wrote: Exactly have you seen slams scum game? Hes try to hard scum, plus his cohearant start is really townie imo. The scum Alakaslam I saw wasn't really tryhard and his behaviour near the lynch reminds me of that game very much. The coherent start gives him some "town points" though so he's still null for me. Would love to get some reads out of him... | ||
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On November 20 2013 08:21 Pandain wrote: Okay I just finished analyzing everyone but Slam, I'll do that later. Right now i have scum reads most heavily on Lonemeow, heavy reads on Holy and Oats, and then am really suspicious of Coag/Mattchew/Risen. I already asked you to explain, but now it's even more relevant. Explain why you thought I was scum and why you apparently don't seem to think so anymore. | ||
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On November 22 2013 23:06 Holyflare wrote: Urgh, koshi, rayn has so much filter that contradictions also make sense in that sense but I'll look into him :/ LM, what is your updated view on how things have gone. Has anything drastically changed and have you caught up? I have only skimmed the thread since D3 started, working on reading through it now but it'll take a while since I'm working at the same time. If you have spare time, could you give me a summary of the claim shenigans that happened? | ||
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On November 24 2013 01:50 austinmcc wrote: I posted the log from the first bit of D3/N3 above. He seemed to mason me relatively early, because I got the invite at like 4 or 5 AM EST. Day started at...8 PM the night before? So it seemed like relatively early in the day he masoned. I hadn't really done anything in that day phase yet. Slight correction, I masoned you on the second real life day of D3, about 33h after D3 started. | ||
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On November 24 2013 01:53 Mig wrote: LM can you post your logs with Yam. As requested: + Show Spoiler [LoneMeow & yamato77 mason log] + Yamato77 Why did you mason me? Yamato77 I apologize, now that I remember LXII, I think you're actually town for this. Either way, scum probably won't kill you, and they can't roleblock you, so it's not like being outed is a huge deal. I thought about this before I posted in the thread. If you need any help catching up or whatever, let me know. LoneMeow I masoned you because I wanted to ascertain your alignment. Based on pregame and playing with you before I thought knowing which side you are on would be very useful. I sent the request before reading the thread because the wording was a bit unclear ("beginning of cycle" and such, so I figured I'd have to send the request before reading to fullfil the "spirit of the rules" if not the word). Still catching up on the thread, very busy day at work. LoneMeow I'd like to hear your thoughts of raynpelikoneet and especially his defense of me. I see a flaw in his logic, but is that obvious to you too? Yamato77 honestly, flawed logic doesn't mean anything arguing over people beign right or wrong about how they reason is the biggest noob trap ever LoneMeow If you can't become the mayor, who would you prefer to get the job? Who would you prefer to be the pardoner? Is that affected by who gets the mayor job? Yamato77 VE will be mayor AFAIK and he should be. I should be pardoner but BC is an alright choice. I don't trust ss fully but he had some town tells early on when I mentioned that you masoned me in the thread. I put pressure on him because I want to see what he does. I'll be rereading today. LoneMeow Do you believe Pandain's mason claim? And what does that imply of his alignment, if anything? Yamato77Last mayor game had a bunch of masons. He could be a mason, but it doesn't make him town. I think he's townish though. Yamato77 Why do people still think I think BC is mafia? I clearly said otherwise right now I'm working with BH/austin as mafia Yamato77 If you come back before the deadline, I'd really like it if you placed your vote on me over VE. I don't think VE is mafia, but I think I would use the lynch better than he would. LoneMeow I will be back before deadline. I could agree about BH being scum, his uselessness is very similar to Hogwarts (I'm not really aware of his town meta though). Not fully caught up to the thread right now, but I'm reconsidering my vote and will prioritise voting someone I think is most likely town - a mislynch I can live with but electing scum as mayor would be very bad. Yamato77 I think it's really obvious that I'm town. Yamato77 Is this mason over or did you not continue to post here at all? LoneMeow I believe we're masoned until end of cycle, so a few more hours still. I was afk for most of the last 24 hours or so, and in fact missed the deadline too. LoneMeow Now that we're both around, there's a few things I'd like to hear your opinion on: 1) Do you think BH's uselessness is alignment indicative? Would you still want to lynch him? 2) Your read on Onegu? 3) Ditto on Pandain? Yamato77 BH is mafia, Onegu I am unsure of, I think Pandain is townish but I struggle to reconcile why he voted for SS who called him mafia. LoneMeow I would support a BH lynch, he's been utterly useless and very much reminds me of the way he played in Hogwarts. I had Pandain down as scum before deadline, but he's looking better to me now so I'd say null for now. Koshi compared my lurking to my scum play in Hogwarts - do you think he's intentionally cherry picking or did he honestly forget I played very much like that as town in LXI? Yamato77 Koshi is quite possibly mafia. I don't like a single post he's made about his reads. marvellosity CLOSED | ||
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On November 24 2013 09:44 austinmcc wrote: I still end up with 3 mafia inside Pandain/Cheese/HF/Risen/Vayne/Slam, with an outside chance of Coag, and an also somewhat outside chance of Onegu, but they're a ways down my list. I find this list quite agreeable. | ||
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##Vote: thrawn2112 | ||
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On November 26 2013 06:04 austinmcc wrote: What part of my posts MOST convince you he's mafia? Are there parts that you disagree with? Think i've got blinders on and am painting something townie/null as uber-scummy? The problem I have is that you're kind of suspicious after D3 votes but the case seems pretty solid. Hold on while I re-re-read thrawn2112's filter. | ||
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On November 26 2013 06:54 Holyflare wrote: Also have some interesting points to raise when I've settled down re:thrawn votes, also onegu's points on me are factual lies, more on that too Please, if you have something about Onegu post it soon, I have to go to bed and it's important I think. | ||
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On November 26 2013 07:16 Hopeless1der wrote: found thrawn/rayn logs btw http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20261055 Interesting. Pretty much every time raynpelikoneet talks about how BC is scum, thrawn jumps to BH or some other topic. I'd say he's avoiding the subject. | ||
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Day 1: yamato77 (7): yamato77, VisceraEyes (9): OOHCHILD (0): hiro protagonist (1): hiro protagonist Mocsta (1): supersoft (9): raynpelikoneet (0): Bloodyc0bbler (2): Mr. Cheesecake, Blazinghand (1): Blazinghand, Koshi (0): Onegu (1): Onegu Alakaslam (0): austinmcc (0): Day 2: Oatsmaster (0): Holyflare (0): Blazinghand (17): Hopeless1der (0): Grackaroni (1): Blazinghand, raynpelikoneet (0): Pandain (3): Risen, BloodyC0bbler (4): Holyflare, Mattchew (0): Day 3: Pandain (6): Grackaroni (2): BloodyC0bbler (10): LoneMeow (2): VayneAuthority, raynpelikoneet, supersoft (0): Mig (1): Coagulation (0): VayneAuthority (0): raynpelikoneet (6): Oatsmaster (2): Risen (5): Alakaslam (0): Onegu (1): Oatsmaster Koshi (0): Holyflare (1): Onegu, austinmcc (1): Onegu thrawn2112 (0): Not voting (1 vote):: Alakaslam (1), Day 4: Risen (5): thrawn2112 (7): austinmcc, Pandain (0): VayneAuthority (2): thrawn2112, Alakaslam (1): VayneAuthority not voting (1): Oatsmaster | ||
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- austinmcc (based on BloodyC0bbler & thrawn2112 lynches) - Mig (see above) - LoneMeow (obviously I know my alignment) Leaning town: - Grackaroni - Coagulation (looks better for thrawn2112 lynch, pushes Oatsmaster who is my prime suspect) Null: - Pandain - Hopeless1der - Mr. Cheesecake - Holyflare Scummy: - Oatsmaster (terrible voting pattern and see my points in my mason log with Holyflare) - Onegu (avoiding the main lynch targets much, eh?) - Alakaslam (not trying to solve the game, and now he's just spamming the thread, also horrible voting pattern) - Risen (not playing pro-town, pushing austinmcc with broken logic) If Risen is scum, my reads on Onegu and Oatsmaster are possibly incorrect. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
On December 01 2013 14:54 Pandain wrote: Holy, LM, can you both paste all your mason chats up until now(don't have to for this day though). Like i think a huge reason why I can be town is obvious through my mason chats, so it should help figure out the alignment for both of you All of my mason logs have been posted earlier, but they're not all in my filter so I'll just repost here for easier reading: + Show Spoiler [D1/N1: LoneMeow & yamato77] + Yamato77 Why did you mason me? Yamato77 I apologize, now that I remember LXII, I think you're actually town for this. Either way, scum probably won't kill you, and they can't roleblock you, so it's not like being outed is a huge deal. I thought about this before I posted in the thread. If you need any help catching up or whatever, let me know. LoneMeow I masoned you because I wanted to ascertain your alignment. Based on pregame and playing with you before I thought knowing which side you are on would be very useful. I sent the request before reading the thread because the wording was a bit unclear ("beginning of cycle" and such, so I figured I'd have to send the request before reading to fullfil the "spirit of the rules" if not the word). Still catching up on the thread, very busy day at work. LoneMeow I'd like to hear your thoughts of raynpelikoneet and especially his defense of me. I see a flaw in his logic, but is that obvious to you too? Yamato77 honestly, flawed logic doesn't mean anything arguing over people beign right or wrong about how they reason is the biggest noob trap ever LoneMeow If you can't become the mayor, who would you prefer to get the job? Who would you prefer to be the pardoner? Is that affected by who gets the mayor job? Yamato77 VE will be mayor AFAIK and he should be. I should be pardoner but BC is an alright choice. I don't trust ss fully but he had some town tells early on when I mentioned that you masoned me in the thread. I put pressure on him because I want to see what he does. I'll be rereading today. LoneMeow Do you believe Pandain's mason claim? And what does that imply of his alignment, if anything? Yamato77 Last mayor game had a bunch of masons. He could be a mason, but it doesn't make him town. I think he's townish though. Yamato77 Why do people still think I think BC is mafia? I clearly said otherwise right now I'm working with BH/austin as mafia Yamato77 If you come back before the deadline, I'd really like it if you placed your vote on me over VE. I don't think VE is mafia, but I think I would use the lynch better than he would. LoneMeow I will be back before deadline. I could agree about BH being scum, his uselessness is very similar to Hogwarts (I'm not really aware of his town meta though). Not fully caught up to the thread right now, but I'm reconsidering my vote and will prioritise voting someone I think is most likely town - a mislynch I can live with but electing scum as mayor would be very bad. Yamato77 I think it's really obvious that I'm town. Yamato77 Is this mason over or did you not continue to post here at all? LoneMeow I believe we're masoned until end of cycle, so a few more hours still. I was afk for most of the last 24 hours or so, and in fact missed the deadline too. LoneMeow Now that we're both around, there's a few things I'd like to hear your opinion on: 1) Do you think BH's uselessness is alignment indicative? Would you still want to lynch him? 2) Your read on Onegu? 3) Ditto on Pandain? Yamato77 BH is mafia, Onegu I am unsure of, I think Pandain is townish but I struggle to reconcile why he voted for SS who called him mafia. LoneMeow I would support a BH lynch, he's been utterly useless and very much reminds me of the way he played in Hogwarts. I had Pandain down as scum before deadline, but he's looking better to me now so I'd say null for now. Koshi compared my lurking to my scum play in Hogwarts - do you think he's intentionally cherry picking or did he honestly forget I played very much like that as town in LXI? Yamato77 Koshi is quite possibly mafia. I don't like a single post he's made about his reads. + Show Spoiler [D2/N2: LoneMeow & Koshi] + Koshi Hi Stray Kitten. Koshi So, is this about me proving to you that I am town? Or you proving to me that you are town? Or both? Or is this just about scumhunting together? Or thrice? LoneMeow This is about all three things, though right now *I* mostly care about figuring out your alignment. I'd like to hear about your thought process when you changed your mind about raynpelikoneet for starters. Koshi Really don't understand why you don't post in the thread. So scummy. Koshi Well. to be really honest. I thought rayn was scum for saying I was scum for starters. Also him not talking to me about my case on supersoft if he also had doubts on supersoft. Just strange. Then I just tunneled a bit on him and made cases so that others would also believe it and he would get lynched. Got to do something on D1 right. I am actually truly lost in bigger games on D1. Mostly in minis as well unless something scummy gets smacked in my face. But atm he might be town. Unless he is in a scumteam with Grack. Because they are pushing same agenda atm. Also might explain why he forgot Grack earlier in the game when he gave 5 names and then added Grack when somebody asked him about it. So unlikely rayn. But yeah, I kind a want to lynch BH atm. 120 hours should be enough for town BH to actually find scum. So we lynch BH and the next day lynch his scumreads if he actually is town. Sounds like a perfect plan. Koshi Got to try and make VE use the double lynch as well. Koshi If we lynch BH. LoneMeow If we go for double lynch now and BH flips red, do you think we have 2 solid enough targets for the double lynch tomorrow? Who would you propose at this stage as the 2 next likely scum? Koshi It is still a very long time till D3 lynch. And there are always people we want to lynch. Koshi If BH is red I need to ask Alakaslam what he said about BH & VA scumteam for examples. Koshi Also, you really need to post in the thread. Soon I will reveal this QT between us if you don't post in the thread. If you post in the thread I can keep it a secret. If you want that. You were heavy lurk in Hogwarts and I dislike people trying to win people over in a QT. Yamato being town and covering for you does make you look good. But I don't like it why you don't show that to the thread. Koshi I totally crumbed that we were in a QT. for funzies. Where are you m8? LoneMeow Having a terrible afternoon at work. As much as I hate defending myself with meta, I also hate it that you keep cherry picking my lurk in Hogwarts while ignoring that I played more or less exactly the same in LXI as town. Also, it's not like I especially want to keep my choice of mason target for today secret. What would it take from BH for you to want to lynch someone else? Koshi Probably will lynch BH no matter what. Unless he really shows he figured out the game or is trying. Koshi I know you also played extremely lurky in LXI. You need to post otherwise people will always think you are scum. It's how it is. LoneMeow Do the other lurkers usually play lurky as either alignment? Those being Stutters, Mr. CheeseCake and Coagulation mainly, I suppose. Koshi Stutters is always lurky. But this is a new level ofc... CC was town in Noir and was semi active (13pages). CC was scum in Aperture and was semi active (14 pages). Him doing absolutely nothing is new to me. Coag is somebody I don't know. I guess I have played games with him but I forgot. LoneMeow Do you think this lurkiness in those players may be alignment indicative or not? LoneMeow Also, would you agree that Alakaslam is probably town? He looks like the usual overly paranoid Slam to me rather than scum pushing agenda. Koshi Depends if BH is scum tbh. I don't know why he is suddenly going crazy and attacking rayn. Koshi Btw, Vayne thinks you are scum and he is looking townie. You might want to mason him tomorrow. LoneMeow I kind of noticed VA wanting to lunch me. I have kind of accepted my fate, but I might mason him anyway. In the land where meta rules, you're not allowed to try to improve What's your opinion on Mig? I thought he was town, but his reads have been pretty non-existent and apparently he's supposed to be some kind of experienced player... LoneMeow Reading through Mocsta's filter I noticed he spent quite a few posts defending Sharrant. I'd like to hear your opinion on those posts. LoneMeow After re-reading Alakaslam's filter, I'm no longer at all sure he's town. That 180 on raynpelikoneet is just ridiculously quick... Koshi Bot Mocsta and Sharrant already flipped m8. I don't know what you want me to say... You being a suspect for lynching has nothing to do with us not wanting you to improve. That's silly to suggest. You can also not blame us for using meta on you because you are a low volume poster. If you would break out with a 5-10 page filter this game we wouldn't be able to use meta. But just like in noir and Hogwards you have a 2-3 page filter. Best way to show thread that you are playing this game on D3 is to make a list with all players and give your honest opinion about them. Because to me it looks like you are pretending you are scumhunting but not really doing anything. You told me you wanted to know my alignement by Masoning me, did you figure it out? You asked 1 question? You asked me questions about the lurkers/afkers, did you figure it out? There is never a conclusion to your questions and we all love to know where you stand. LoneMeow Oops, that's what I get for staring at a filter for too long I suppose. My point with the meta was that two games does not really establish any kind of statistically meaningful dataset to compare against. I'm pretty sure I'll get lynched for posting an "useless list post" but sure, I'll do that. Sadly it'll be full of "not sure, null" entries because I honestly don't have a good idea of the alignment of most players in this game. If BH flips red you're definitely town, if he flips something else I suppose I'd still think you likely town. Koshi Yeah, if you don't have an idea about more than 10 people than you better just concentrate on your scumreads. Those 4 names you gave are not too shabby. Make cases around the 3 that will be alive tomorrow and I am sure you will stay alive if they are good. Koshi Just Mason VA tommorrow and you will be all right. Unless you went cutiepie on the Sharrant mistake I think you are town. LoneMeow Penny for your thoughts on HolyFlare? The mason log he posted makes him look better and austinmcc look worse to me, but that's the exact opposite of my previous reads so I need to think about this. Koshi When reading that big ass post from Holyflare I only paid attention to Holyflare tbh. I think he is town, but it all depends a bit on BH flip on what I will do tomorrow. If BH flips town I need to look at Grack, thrawn, BC, alakaslam, etc. If BH flips red I just sheep rayn till he is wrong or I find something really good. I also still find it interesting that Sharrant, StorrZerg & Spag died over vets like BH, SS, VE, Mig, BC etc. Just strange, especially that insane doc Sharrant kill. Quite sexy read. Just like the shot on Mocsta. LoneMeow Do you think getting rid of both assassins was beneficial for town? Koshi No it's bad for town, they wont tank any shots now. But BH was a good lynch, he could have easily flipped scum. VE was a bigger loss but now we understand why he was going after Skanjab D1... + Show Spoiler [D3/N3: LoneMeow & austinmcc] + LoneMeow Hello. I believe you wanted to chat with me. austinmcc Yup Yup. I just checked this and have to run shortly, but I will be able to be active in here in...like 3.5 or so hours? You're more than welcome to get active in thread, you've just been somewhat absent today and are on some peoples' lists of folks to lynch, and I wanted to see more from you to figure out whether to move you up or down. I know you're just catching up, but if you could at least look at supersoft/BC/oats stuff, that would be helpful. (supersoft claims BC masons him D1, supersoft claims he's town RB and going to RB oats, supersoft isn't blocked, we don't have all the KP accounted for, therefore supersoft thinks BC town/oats mafia) austinmcc Also Hi! We haven't played together from what I remember. austinmcc I am back. You around? LoneMeow Yes, just got home half an hour ago. Trying to catch up and reading Pandain's filter. austinmcc Okay. Don't even worry about this supersoft/BC/oats stuff if you don't already have thoughts about it. I just want to sit down and have a nice rapid fire conversation, want to see quick honest thoughts and want to give you some quick honest thoughts and see where you think I'm wrong / missing things / etc. LoneMeow Can you give me a quick TL;DR version of the claims that happened during early D3 or so? I haven't had time to figure that out yet. austinmcc Ugh. Everything by everyone. I claimed vet during N2 resolution. Supersoft claimed RB. Claims to have told BC in mason chat D1 that he was town RB and blocking oats. Vayne claimed hatter. Rayn previously claimed hatter, says he was lying. Cheesecake continues to say I'm the doctor, but not in a serious way. Mig claimed 2-shot vigi, shot sharrant N1, mattchew N2. Grack sort of claimed mason, but isn't one. The mason logs between SS and pandain show pandain claiming Vet. Pandain says he never claimed vet. LoneMeow Pandain avoiding explaining his sudden read changes on me is scummy. Agree/disagree? austinmcc Mildly. But as scum, pandain could easily make up a reason, including a reason that sounded different. Given that his town read was based purely on your actions in masoning Yamato, you don't think there's any reason for his read to have changed? LoneMeow There could be reasons. My problem is with him ignoring me when I ask for said reasons. austinmcc Why does scumpandain ignore your request? Why does townpandain ignore your request? LoneMeow Scumpandain doesn't have actual reasons so he would have to cook something up. Townpandain might be... lazy? This is kind of the crux, I can't think of reasonable reasons why he'd ignore my request if he's town. austinmcc Imo, scumpandain could easily cook something up. He's comfortable enough as scum to be pretty active, and other people had already put reasons in thread why they found you scummy. If he really needed a reason, he could just copy paste someone else's and say he agreed, throw a slight spin on it to add his own stuff. In the same vein, last time you gave reads, I see Pandain/Mig/me. Why is pandain a top read? All you say is that he looked bad, then good, but now you're his top scum read so he's back on your list. Apart from his interaction with you, do you actively find him scummy? LoneMeow He can't really copy what someone else said since the only "case" on me is raynpelikoneet's "scumslip" case more or less. (There are some "he's lurking" cases but those are hardly good enough for _top_ scum read, I'd think.) Couple of things that make me think he might be scum: 1. claims it is advantageous for town to get the assassins out 2. twice essentially says there are scum doctors (not maybe, just flat out there are scum doctors) 3. wished for Stutters modkill 4. kind of backpedaled on BH (called BH scum, then a bit later he was still scum but not best lynch anymore) 5. ignores me when I ask for reasons on his read on me None of this alone would be very indicative of anything but it adds up... LoneMeow I see your vote is on BloodyC0bbler. If he is scum, would you say that would implicate anyone else? austinmcc You masoned yamato D1. Out of his reads late into N1, which do you like best? His filter for reference - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...r=yamato77&view=all Koshi, thrawn is he's useless (and he has been useless), oats, anything out of that group do something for you? austinmcc If BC is scum, it makes Oats very very very very very likely town. It makes Mig likely town. It possibly implicates cheese, possibly you, because he goes off on a lot of inactive-y folks but not the two of you. Quit possibly thrawn as well. In each case, he really doesn't say anything about that set of folks, he has a COUPLE of interactions with thrawn, but it's always thrawn going, "Hey BC, tell me about x!" and not really much else. Thrawn less implicated because of that, but I could see him just helping BC push an agenda, specifically, BC's interpretation of mocsta's flip and interactions. LoneMeow I'm really torn on Koshi. I expected him to query me in the mason QT far more than he did, he was just being very friendly which gives me bad vibes. On the other hand, yamato was also quite friendly in our mason QT and he was town... Koshi's thread presence gives me slight town read, but I'm not at all certain I can read him very well. I don't think thrawn2112 is scum unless my Pandain read is wrong. And if we talk about useless, you could add players like Mr. Cheesecake, myself, Alakaslam and Onegu to the list pretty much. The last read I had on Oatsmaster was pretty null-ish, I'll go and check his filter (I need to do that to evaluate supersoft's claim anyway). austinmcc So you're not a big fan of any of yamato's final reads? This isn't a trap, this is just...he wrote koshi/thrawn if useless/oats. I just want to see if you agree/disagree with them, and it looks like you are town/town/? on those three. LoneMeow I don't super agree with them, no. Koshi is the one I'm most afraid of, because if I'm wrong about him and he is actually scum it means I'm probably wrong about a lot of other things. austinmcc Okay. If you could ... remove 5 people from lynchability for the rest of the game, who would you choose? People you think are super duper duper mega town. If you could remove votes from 3 people in the game, who and why? Scum, you think they're making poor decisions, etc. etc. LoneMeow There's not a single person I'd consider town enough that I wouldn't want to retain the option to lynch them later if it turns out I've been wrong. If I could remove votes, I'd take raynpelikoneet and Alakaslam at least, the former is just impossible to follow and the latter is very much random and defies any attempts at figuring out. Don't have a third name right now. LoneMeow Thoughts on Onegu? austinmcc His filter is tiny. His mayoral campaign got no support, I don't know why mafia would campaign for mayor without ANY support whatsoever, and keep that going. His big HF post/case on D1 blew, imo, and felt scummy. His justifications when I asked him about that post felt like butt, but he continued the same thought process about HF asking questions while not speaking himself (something that I disagreed with him on). He responds to Marv's posting of the town/scum numbers, gut read that's town. I like Onegu for town. His filter reads townie to me in enough points that it outdoes his early poopcase on HF. LoneMeow What about Alakaslam? I keep swapping him between town and scum in my notes... austinmcc Unsure. LoneMeow Also, I kind of agree that Onegu might be town. Not a very solid read though. Didn't really think his campaign was very alignment indicative but the rest of it gives town read on gut even though he's not really participating as much as I'd expect. He hasn't lurker as scum in any game I've played with him though so perhaps the lurking isn't very alignment indicative. austinmcc I'm having problems with the mayoral votes now. We have 6 scum. We know mocsta is scum, and ended the day voting for himself as the only person. That means 5 scum votes in play. I THINK thrawn is scum, not as super hard as BC and others, but think it. Maybe hard, I dunno. Game so wonky. If thrawm is scum, that means that scumHiro voted himself and left his vote there throughout the day. Means only FOUR scum votes in play. Now, hiro was AFK and had to be replaced, so maybe that's legitimate. But if Thrawn and mocsta are BOTH scum, and scum only have 4 remaining votes, i DON'T see them stranding any votes, like Onegu. No way he sits on himself when they've already lost 1/3 of their influence on the thread. It's POSSIBLE this implicates people like slam, rayn, and other folks who were on themselves but later consolidated, except i think it's more likely scum is just scattered, and since I think BC is scum I kind of question some votes on him, which I guess implicates cheese and slam. Don't think mafia runs BC and supersoft against each other? Probably not. LoneMeow Of course if they didn't even try to run for mayor/pardoner they wouldn't have any need whatsoever to consolidate, but this is just WIFOM. I am kind of wanting to like supersoft for scum, because that would make the mayoral votes make much more sense, but that's quite incompatible with Pandain being scum... austinmcc Even if they don't run someone, in my head, they at least want some say in who is mayor. They can look at likely targets, and try to avoid anyone that is trying to actually lynch mafia. This assumes anyone was, and that mayoral candidates were posting scum lists and discussing lynches, which they super weren't. LoneMeow That makes sense. Assuming all candidates were town, would that implicate someone? austinmcc Not anyone majorly from what I remember. Yamato I think was decently set on BH, and BH wasn't scum. VE had a big fat list of people, most of whom weren't scum. Supersoft MIGHT have lynched mocsta, in which case we look for flight off supersoft. That implicates me and Koshi. I know I'm town, I really think Koshi's town, so I don't get anywhere on that. However, we can also look for votes moving to NOT supersoft, in an attempt to get someone else elected over him --> again all the late votes on VE look alright, and the late votes on Yamato are like..>Vayne and Grack, unsure when they came in. I don't see anything particularly damning in the votes unless ss is mafia. Assuming BC is mafia, I still think SOME of the votes on him could be mafia, but otherwise I'm not really getting anything except just a basic assumption that scum want SOME influence. LoneMeow Assuming supersoft is scum, what would he have done with the D1 lynch given that he had hinted he would lynch Mocsta? austinmcc rayn had a good post on it somewhere. Basically, ss didn't mention looking at mocsta until late in the day. And with like 10-15 minutes left, he was looking elsewhere and still saying he was checking mocsta's filter. He never said I AM GOING TO LYNCH MOCSTA, he just kept dropping that name and saying he was reading, even as we got very close to lynch. All he has to do is find SOME reason not to lynch mocsta over anyone else. Not too hard. LoneMeow If you could shoot one person now, before the lynch, who would you shoot? Ie. of the people you find scummy, whose flip do you think would help us figure out the game? austinmcc I shoot BC 80000000000000000%. If BC is mafia, oats is not, and people get off his nuts. If BC is mafia, grack is VERY VERY VERY likely town. I think. Maybe. It also makes thrawn look much worse for his saying BC's take on the mocsta/grack interactions so sexy. Also very telling of mig's alignment, scum BC = 99.999% town mig. I think BC is a lynchpin here and...needs to get lynched? austinmcc Yourself? LoneMeow I'd be very tempted to shoot supersoft. His flip would be very useful, but I'm still not very satisfied that he actually is scum. BloodyC0bbler isn't a bad choice either, I just can't get any kind of read on him, everything he says seems like it could come from either alignment. I suspect it would help if I had played with him before. austinmcc In your mind, what does supersoft's flip say about people? Both town and scum flips. LoneMeow If he'd flip scum then Alakaslam, BloodyC0bbler and Holyflare would all look bad. if he'd flip town, then Koshi and you would look interesting. Possibly also Oatsmaster. LoneMeow Scum supersoft would also make Grackaroni a very interesting person. austinmcc Why grack? LoneMeow No wait, missed the timing of the vote, doesn't make sense that he'd have voted a scum buddy hoping someone would follow. austinmcc Pretend you're mafia today, and I dunno how much exp you have playing as mafia, so feel free to MAKE IT ALL UP if you want. But, pretend you're mafia. How are you playing today? It is double lynch. You have 4 teammates. It's likely 1-2 of you is under SOME suspicion, maybe 1 guy under lots. We're closing in on lynch and votes are everywhere, on everyone, for reasons that you KNOW nobody in town can follow. What do you do? LoneMeow Add more confusion, have people swap votes and occasionally bus each other when there's no real risk of getting lynched? austinmcc What do you make of thrawn being active in another game but not this one? LoneMeow Really weird. But wouldn't it be kind of stupid to intentionally do that as scum? austinmcc Have you played any scum games? Just wondering. At least for some/most people, playing scum is really tough. You have to fake activity, you have to fake scumreads, it's just...way more WORK it feels like and people are ACCUSING you of being EVIL and also, YOU ARE EVIL. It can be terrible. So it's stupid to do that, sure, but I know I have just straight up afked some days as scum, because I didn't feel like reading the thread, responding to accusations, or doing much. There's less motivation because your goal is to HIDE, rather than to SOLVE. I don't think it's too uncommon. austinmcc If you've been scum, you might play differently. Otherwise, it's absolutely on the table because today has probably been somewhat of a mess for town, and there's a boatload of thread to read for scum. Scum looks at votes, sees they're sitting pretty, and absolutely wouldn't want to read the thread and participate. austinmcc What do you make of BC's large post? austinmcc Mic check one two, mic check one two. Would still like to know some substantive thoughts on BC's large post, regardless of his flip. austinmcc I'm stepping back from game for a little, maybe for the rest of the night (it's almost 9 EST). Would like to hear your thoughts on BC's large reads post still. And ... Vayne. Whatchoo think 'bout Vayne? austinmcc Also interested, given your scumread on pandain, what you think about the voters on him and BC's swap to pandain last second. austinmcc NONONO PLEASE RETURN. Lonemeow lonemeow lonemeow! LoneMeow Well hello there, I am back. Give me a moment to catch up. LoneMeow BC's last minute swap is just pure WIFOM territory. It decided between raynpelikoneet and Risen if I'm not mistaken. So it could have been to save Risen, or it could have been to make it look like he wanted to save Risen. austinmcc If I had not voted at 3 minutes to go, it would have decided between risen/pandain. Because I swapped my vote to rayn with 3 minutes left, his last-minute vote decided between risen/rayn, ya. Okay. Still interested in thoughts on that final post of his. Do you think he thought he could convince anyone? Is there a read in there that feels genuine? Is there any read that looks 100% made up? It's conjecture, speculation, but every one of those reads is either real or made-up. Based on what he called out and his language, some of the reads might lean one way or the other for you. LoneMeow The post itself felt quite convincing, but IMHO it was too late to be very likely to save him (and I'd expect him to have realized that), so it most likely was made to confuse. From what I can see, most of the reads are consistent with his earlier stances. Some points to note: 1. gives Koshi 100% town when the previous read was "could go either way" 2. Oatsmaster is mafia when he previously is kind of wishy washy about it 3. it's interesting that he picks Hopeless1der as scum because he's lurking when there are others who are more or less just as lurky and useless austinmcc Okay. I'm going to post this, AND I AM ALSO GOING TO MAKE UP A FAKE MESSAGE AND PUT AT THE END OF IT ABOUT YOU BEING A PRETTY KITTY OR SOMETHING. FOR ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY BOTHERS TO READ THESE LOGS, I HAVE ADDED A FAKE MESSAGE ABOUT LM BEING A PRETTY KITTY. NONE OF THE OTHER MESSAGES ARE FAKE. BUT I AM ADDING ONE BECAUSE IT ENTERTAINS ME. SO TAKE THAT. austinmcc Thanks for masoning me and being pretty chatty. I would suggest being relatively active in thread over the next couple days. As people die, thread gets less spammy, so it's easier to follow. And if you're town, you need to have some presence and take some stances that you back up, because otherwise you're going to get mislynched in short order, once we're down to a bunch of ?s. austinmcc ANYONE WHO TRIES TO CLOSE THIS QT HAS TO WRITE WRESTLING FORUMS MAFIA > TL MAFIA 5 TIMES OR ELSE THE QT REMAINS LEGALLY OPEN. /lawyered + Show Spoiler [D4/N4: LoneMeow & Holyflare] + Holyflare Howdy! Why have you masoned me today my friend? LoneMeow Morning. I picked you because: 1. You're difficult to analyze from the thread 2. I don't fully trust my previous mason partners so I didn't want to follow their suggestions 3. You're in more or less the same timezone LoneMeow When you're around, I'd like to discuss some thoughts on Koshi and VayneAuthority. Holyflare Posting from phone so sorry if it's a bit shit as it's off the top of my head. I think koshi is town, I don't think he makes a colossal play such as getting rayn lynched as scum. It was very ballsy and he looked utterly convinced that he could read rayn, I think that emotion is hard to fake, especially the sadness when he is wrong. VA on the other hand. I don't dislike him as town but I haven't read too much into him over other candidates than I could have. He was fairly inactive to begin, only leaving breadcrumbs. He is apparently a MH but didn't call out rayn for it at all, possibly because he thought rayn was towny as is suggested by his posts around rayns death. He's stepped up his posting tenfold now and nobody has anti claimed hatter so I'll have to see. People say that he steers town in wrong directions when he is scum and I'm starting to see a bit pf that shine through recntly. Holyflare Can you give me your opinion on oats and hopeless? LoneMeow Oatsmaster had been flying completely under my radar, so I went and re-read his filter, and found some interesting tidbits. These were posted in the game thread: --- Oatsmaster Singapore. November 21 2013 13:30. Either BC or SS is scum. ##vote SS GOO SS. Risen, why did you drop your policy lynch on Grack? Why is Grack making a joke about being masons with Coag scummy? ##vote Risen --- Oatsmaster Singapore. November 22 2013 01:00. Thank you hopeless. ##unvote BC vote SS --- But this is what was posted in the voting thread: --- Oatsmaster Singapore. November 22 2013 01:00. ## vote SS ##Vote Risen --- He had been suggesting that BC is scum for a while, then voted SS anyway who he had hardly mentioned at all. He then proceeds to have both his votes on players who aren't viable lynch targets at all. During the game he's had what seem to be pretty strong scum reads, but he's never really pushed for one of those to be lynched until now that he is suddenly pushing Risen. Verdict: Scummy, would lynch. LoneMeow On Hopeless1der, let's see. His switch away from BC and then back is somewhat questionable. He tries to push Pandain early on which looks good to me since I think Pandain might be scum. On the other hand he also defends Oats who seems scummy to me. Not much else stands out about him, I liked that the tried to make VA not call others names and present cases instead. Verdict: Null. Holyflare What do you think of hopeless' posts today? LoneMeow I'm not sure, the point about WIFOM is okay but I don't especially like how he attacks supersoft's reads. Sure, supersoft was wrong, but that's not exactly a reason to disbelieve all of his reads. Holyflare Do you feel like they are overly aggressive at people when he himself does nothing to solve the issue? Also what do you feel about this thrawb/risen vote? Alssoooo the stuff about onegu is that he returns to the thread, says nothing about anyone and then drops some more nonsense about me. Look at his last point about me. That my vote wasn't on my scum read risen? It actually was. He lies and says he has read/caught up and then posts things to throw people off me because he knows i am suspicious of him. Also, i am not sure of your alignment. If you are around now, you have 30 mins to sell yourself to me. I masoned mig today and i can say he is 100% town Did not mason anyone D5/N5. | ||
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On December 01 2013 20:34 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I predict all of 'slam/onegu/oats voting for me today for stupid reasons because they are scum. Maybe vayne because he is scum and one is bad town. Yeah. C'mon dat no bus theory! occams razor gogo BloodyC0bbler called Oatsmaster scum early on, how's your no bus theory doing? | ||
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On November 28 2013 04:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Fuck the role thing too, LM also needs to die. there are like 7 masons anyway On December 01 2013 20:21 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: There is literally no reason i should be suspicious. I called out BC after mocstas death early, killed thrawn etc. Only reason ppl dont like me is cus of my risen post that had if risen flips toen. I POSTED THAT IN CASE I DIED TO LEAD YOU TO VICTORY. We lynch into onegu/oats/slam. You wanted to lynch me earlier, could you point out where and why you changed your mind? | ||
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1. Smoke screening during D3 votes. This is what he posted in the game thread: On November 21 2013 13:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Either BC or SS is scum. ##vote SS GOO SS. Risen, why did you drop your policy lynch on Grack? Why is Grack making a joke about being masons with Coag scummy? ##vote Risen On November 22 2013 01:00 Oatsmaster wrote: Thank you hopeless. ##unvote BC vote SS On November 23 2013 03:07 Oatsmaster wrote: BC probably right. DIE MIG DIE. But, in the voting thread: On November 22 2013 01:00 Oatsmaster wrote: ## vote SS ##Vote Risen On November 22 2013 10:13 Oatsmaster wrote: ##unvote SS ##Vote Coag On November 23 2013 03:07 Oatsmaster wrote: ##unvote ##unvote ##Vote: Mig ##Vote: Onegu 2. D3 votes He keeps calling BC scum before the D3 wagons start forming, yet once they do he votes someone else, and in the end his votes end up outside all of the viable lynch wagons. Then he tries to collect cred for "being right": On November 24 2013 01:21 Oatsmaster wrote: HAH I was right about the BC or SS being scum thing. Hey SS am I still scum? Also, he called Risen scum and had a vote on him, then ended up switching away without any explanation whatsoever. Then starts pushing Risen after the lynch - now why would you switch away from a viable lynch candidate to someone who's definitely not going to get lynched only to start pushing again after the lynch. On November 24 2013 22:12 Oatsmaster wrote: Yes look heavily into me after I push Risen half the game. 3. (Not) pushing lynches Despite having called people scum he never pushed a lynch until Risen (who flipped town) and Onegu. Despite calling BC scum many times he never really seemed to care if others would vote for him or not. | ||
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If he flips red as I expect, I'd probably look into Alakaslam next, their interactions look suspicious on a quick read. | ||
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On December 02 2013 00:43 Onegu wrote: For some reason I thought oats voted for BC when I read his filter, now I see he didnt. Plus I have been given good arguements as to why oats is more scummy than Mr. CC who I was planning on voteing. What were the reasons you were going to vote Mr. CC for? If Oats flips red, who's next on your "to lynch" list and why? | ||
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On December 02 2013 01:09 Onegu wrote: You didnt see my case on mr.cc? And I havent given up on a HF lynch. Basicly here is the bottom 5 of where I think the scum are. Slam, oats, mr.cc, hf, hopeless. I have a next level up who I think are town, and that is coag, LM, grack, and VA And people I will never vote are austin and pandain at this point. And I know my read on pandain has changed from null unknown to town there is a reason for that. I shall go re-read your case on Mr. CC - from memory I think it was somewhat shoddy. I'd love to hear the reason for your change of mind on Pandain. | ||
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On December 02 2013 02:08 austinmcc wrote: I DO NOT LIKE OATS LYNCH. I LIKE CC LYNCH. ##vote: Mr. Cheesecake Huoh. Guess I'm wrong again. ##Unvote: Oatsmaster ##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake | ||
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On December 02 2013 03:08 Oatsmaster wrote: What is with that 180 LM? I support a CC lynch, but you think Im scum? How does that work? austinmcc is town. He says you're town. Therefore I am wrong. | ||
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On December 02 2013 03:12 Pandain wrote: Doesn't mean he's right I have far more confidence in him than myself. | ||
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On December 04 2013 01:20 Hopeless1der wrote: Who thinks I'm wrong? (not you Pandain) Or else, who do you want to lynch? The fact that VayneAuthority was killed over austinmcc/Pandain/Grackaroni makes me doubt my earlier reads that they'd all be town. Would probably prefer Grackaroni over Pandain though, and both of them over austinmcc. And still probably one of the others first. Need to go back and re-read a bit before I can decide. | ||
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On December 04 2013 02:10 Hopeless1der wrote: How can you possibly think austin might be scum after the thrawn lynch? That's why he's the last one on my "to lynch" list. It's not totally impossible, but so very implausible that I'd lynch anyone else first. On December 04 2013 02:10 Hopeless1der wrote: I'd like to hear why you had Pandain as town if you'd be so inclined. I don't have my notes here, so all I can say is that I remember having marked him as town. I'll recheck in a couple of hours when I get home. If you had to lynch someone who's not Pandain, who would that be? | ||
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On December 04 2013 03:25 Alakaslam wrote: LM I may not be a town leader but you aren't scummy if you spar with me. Why aren't you scum, I guess? What? I don't speak Alakaslamese, can you translate this to something I can understand? Also, I'd appreciate if you explained why you think I'm scum. | ||
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On December 04 2013 03:32 Alakaslam wrote: Don't worry because you already are. It is asking you to do what you just did. I think you are scum based on your filter and extended absence, and process of elimination. Not strong at all and that is because I haven't a strong case to make. Your turn reply, answer all points and I will think before replying so that we don't blast up 40 pages... I'd prefer if you could point exactly what in my filter it is that you find scummy. General sweeping statements make it very hard to figure out if you actually have a case or are just trying to justify a fake read. I'm probably stupid but I can't figure out which points you are referring to, can you please make a clear list of things you want me to answer? | ||
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I'm not sure how you expect me to respond to those. Yes, I've been absent, and will continue to be so. So you have me as scum by process of elimination - how exactly do you expect me to respond to that? If you want to talk about something slightly more specific, like my reads or votes, I'm up for it. | ||
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On December 04 2013 02:37 LoneMeow wrote: I don't have my notes here, so all I can say is that I remember having marked him as town. I'll recheck in a couple of hours when I get home. So, after having checked my notes, I'm not so sure about Pandain after all. His votes look far worse than I remembered, and since he was in no risk of actually being lynched when BloodyC0bbler switched that doesn't buy him any town cred whatsoever. I shall commence a proper re-read. Oh and I masoned him D6/N6. + Show Spoiler [D6/N6: LoneMeow & Pandain] + Pandain What's up dude? Can you paste your mason logs in the thread? LoneMeow Posted the logs, sorry about the delay, decided to take yet another nap before I finished that. LoneMeow You're currently voting Oatsmaster. I agree that he's scummy as hell, but I'm having trouble with figuring out who could be his buddies. Assuming we lynch him and he flips red, who would you lynch next? LoneMeow Also I'd love to hear what you think of Grackaroni and the fact that the flipped scummers seemed to be pushing him for pretty much the entire game. Pandain I think cheesecake is a good bet. And then it's possible onegu is scum that they are bussing, or hf or even maaaybe Vayne And yeah grack is town in my eyes LoneMeow What's your view on austinmcc calling Oatsmaster town? Pandain He's just wrong but not scummy the reasons are ok by flawed LoneMeow Is it possible that CC and Oats are both scum? Pandain Yeah that's why I'm not defending CC too hard. LoneMeow Would Alakaslam seem like a reasonable third scum? His voting history is absolutely terrible, and despite having reasonably sized filter he hasn't actually *said* almost anything nor taken stances on anyone. Pandain I'll be talking a lot more at night or in like 3-4 hours I can only post on my phone. I did have a Strong town read on slam but if it comes down to only one scum left then everyone is up for grabs except for me, and Austin Pandain Actually with you in mason love you look pretty good too so don't think I would lynch you Pandain Logs* Pandain You here? thrawn(actually pandain) why didn't you mason anyone day 5 Pandain sorry wrong name filled in, that was a joke one from my thrawn mason chat. "why didn't you mason anyone day 5" LoneMeow I was afk/asleep for most of D5/N5, then figured I didn't want to mason someone for the last 12 hours or so because I'd just be limiting my options for the following cycles. | ||
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Day 1: yamato77 (7): yamato77, VisceraEyes (9): OOHCHILD (0): hiro protagonist (1): hiro protagonist Mocsta (1): supersoft (9): raynpelikoneet (0): Bloodyc0bbler (2): Mr. Cheesecake, Blazinghand (1): Blazinghand, Koshi (0): Onegu (1): Onegu Alakaslam (0): austinmcc (0): Day 2: Oatsmaster (0): Holyflare (0): Blazinghand (17): Hopeless1der (0): Grackaroni (1): Blazinghand, raynpelikoneet (0): Pandain (3): Risen, BloodyC0bbler (4): Holyflare, Mattchew (0): Day 3: Pandain (6): Grackaroni (2): BloodyC0bbler (10): LoneMeow (2): VayneAuthority, raynpelikoneet, supersoft (0): Mig (1): Coagulation (0): VayneAuthority (0): raynpelikoneet (6): Oatsmaster (2): Risen (5): Alakaslam (0): Onegu (1): Oatsmaster Koshi (0): Holyflare (1): Onegu, austinmcc (1): Onegu thrawn2112 (0): Not voting (1 vote):: Alakaslam (1), Day 4: Risen (5): thrawn2112 (7): austinmcc, Pandain (0): VayneAuthority (2): thrawn2112, Alakaslam (1): VayneAuthority not voting (1): Oatsmaster Day 5: Risen (10): Holyflare (1): VayneAuthority LoneMeow (1): Alakaslam Onegu: (2): Holyflare, Day 6: Oatsmaster (4): Mr. Cheesecake (7): Alakaslam, Coagulation (1): Not voting (1): Oatsmaster | ||
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On December 04 2013 08:04 Alakaslam wrote: Were you absent for irl? Who do you wanna lynch, do you see anyone good, I dunno. I sux at this Why do you ask when you already know the answer? And why are you trying to make me excuse my lurking with IRL? I have a policy against ever doing that again during a game, that's pre/post game material. And I'd want to lynch Onegu, although you'd be a decent candidate, too. Why did you drop the point about my filter? I'd still want to hear what it is in my filter that you find scummy. | ||
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On December 04 2013 16:21 LoneMeow wrote: And I'd want to lynch Onegu, although you'd be a decent candidate, too. Although after reading that mason log, I'm far less sure of my choice. Onegu, come back and talk about Hopeless1der and Alakaslam as you promised. | ||
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On December 04 2013 16:28 Pandain wrote: Lone, Holy, who did you mason today Coagulation. | ||
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On December 04 2013 23:40 Onegu wrote: Sorry my son was admitted into the hospital today, I will catch up in a bit. I am really feeling a hopeless or holyflare lynch, I need ro think about pandain somemore at this point... What about Coagulation? You gave him a town read earlier, are you still confident in that? Do you have any specific reasons why you thought he is town? | ||
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On December 05 2013 04:17 austinmcc wrote: Also, slam, why did you vote BC on D2? Even more so, why he suddenly become super town on D3 for you after you called him scum on D2? On November 21 2013 13:33 Alakaslam wrote: I tell you vet Svengali blows me around like the wind Every time BC speaks my eyes glaze and I think he is town This is kind of funny after you called him scum and even voted him on D2. | ||
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On November 23 2013 03:32 Onegu wrote: Im caught up and I swear this is the biggest clusterfuck game I have been in. So many lies, fakeclaims, BS arguements about irrelevant stuff. Look I had irl stuff had havent posted in either game for the last 20 hours or so. I somehow keep getting the feeling that BC and Mig are town, I believe Migs claim and shot, but I kinda like BCs posts in the last day. I also agree with him on a few things. So you wanted my list but I have to add a null section because a few people I just cant read atm. Very townie: Rayn, VA, Slam Leaning town. BC, Mig, thrawn, Mr. CC, LM Null: Coag, Hopeless, pandain, oats, SS Leaning Scum: Grack, risen Very Scum: Austin, Koshi, HF ##VOTE:KOSHI ##VOTE:HOLYFLARE Calls austinmcc "very scum". On November 23 2013 03:48 Onegu wrote: No I was asking you a question? He wasnt tunneled on me he couldnt have been but yet he first tries to call me scummy for bs reasons, and then when I call him out on it he gets all butthurt questioning my balls to call him scum and then trying to misrepresent me again with that list like he read my filiter and only saw HF stuff and nothing on austin so me putting austin in my most scummy slot was complete BS by me but he is wrong. Oops, that was "complete BS". On November 23 2013 05:47 Onegu wrote: Fine Austin, Ill take back koshi for now as I am the only one on him and rereading his filter he isnt as scummy as it thought, but HF has 2 votes my vote stays on him. ##UNVOTE KOSHI ##VOTE RISEN Well, I guess this could be reasonable if austinmcc wasn't a scum read after all... On November 23 2013 06:14 Onegu wrote: Man fuck this. youre not dead yet I like that post. ##UNVOTE ## VOTE AUSTINMCC ...but then he wants to lynch austinmcc anyway? For now, I support lynching Onegu. ##Vote: Onegu | ||
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On December 05 2013 10:20 Pandain wrote: I will not be stopped. We start with Coag, then we go to Lonemeow-then to Holy. All - in So what you're saying is that you believe: a) all remaining scum bussed thrawn2112 and b) the player who tied votes between thrawn2112 and Risen is scum and c) the player who hammered thrawn2112 is scum Seriously? | ||
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In my mason QT he says Onegu is less scummy than me, but in the game thread: On December 05 2013 07:13 Coagulation wrote: ##Vote: Onegu cause why not? On December 05 2013 09:50 Coagulation wrote: I gots good feels about this lynch Now why wouldn't he vote for me if I'm more scummy than Onegu? Even more so when there was a real possibility that I might be lynched? | ||
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Can you think of a reason why: a) scum LoneMeow would switch from one wagon to another (he knows both are mislynches) b) town LoneMeow would switch from one wagon to another Which one is more likely? | ||
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On December 05 2013 14:20 Pandain wrote: You weren't up for the lynch! Onegu was being lynched by far. And hey it makes sense if you're both scum  Really, I wasn't up for lynch when it was 3-2 between me and Onegu? On December 05 2013 14:20 Pandain wrote: I see reasons for both alignments, the thing I'm far more concerned about is your reasoning What's the problem with that reasoning? It's not like I have been correct about any of my reads, so why wouldn't I sheep someone I'm almost 100% certain is town? | ||
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On December 05 2013 14:33 Pandain wrote: Why would he vote you if you're both scum? And when Coag voted, you had zero votes anyway I'm confused by your reasoning. There wasn't much of a wagon on Onegu at that point either, and he could have switched later when there was a possibility of getting me, the more scummy one, lynched. FWIW, I'm mostly suspicious of him because he hasn't really responded to anything I've asked in the mason QT nor tried to probe me in any way, which I'd expect him to do if he was town and had a scum read on me. On December 05 2013 14:33 Pandain wrote: What you're doing is a weak excuse. So you totally sheeped Austin? Trusted that he had to be right, when you literally just made a case on him before. Didn't ask why your opinion was wrong? austinmcc posted his reasoning why Oatsmaster was town and Oatsmaster responded to my case, I figured I was probably wrong (as it turns out I was) and figured it'd be better to sheep someone I trust. Also, I didn't have a scum read on thrawn2112 (pretty sure I called him town) nor BloodyC0bbler (don't think I gave a read on him at all). | ||
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On December 05 2013 14:48 Pandain wrote: I still don't understand where you're coming from with the first point. I think Coag and you are both scum. Therefore it makes perfect sense he didn't vote you. It would make an equal amount of sense if he didn't vote you regardless of any of your alignments. You weren't up for discussion then. Want to share your mason log? Obviously you see things from a different perspective. I know my alignment, therefore for me his non-voting of me despite calling me more scummy does not make much sense. + Show Spoiler [D7: LoneMeow & Coagulation] + LoneMeow 12-03-2013 12:14 PM ET (US) Hello. We probably won't be around much at the same times, but let's try to do something useful here anyway. For starters, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Holyflare and Onegu. freelancesatan 12-03-2013 03:05 PM ET (US) i would put them under the slightly less scummy than you catagory LoneMeow 12-04-2013 02:32 AM ET (US) Could you expand on that slightly, why are they less scummy / why am I more scummy? Also, could you remind me (my notes are a mess) why you stopped pushing for Grackaroni lynch? LoneMeow 12-04-2013 05:07 PM ET (US) If you happen to have the time, your read on Alakaslam would be much appreciated. Also, if the choice was between Onegu and Alakaslam, which would you rather lynch? I left the timestamps in because they're kind of relevant, I think. | ||
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On December 05 2013 18:13 Alakaslam wrote: NEVER FORGET THIS TOWN OR REMEMBER I SAID ITS TOXIC HERE IIIIIIIIIIIII HAMMMMMMEMEEEEEEEERRRRRREEEDDD THRAAAAAAAAAAWNNNNN!!!! FULLLLY AWARE OF THE FACT!!!!! I had NO CLUE if he was scum, and wanted to see what would happen! Yes I got angry, I remember! I was trying to see if scum would come off because I hammered and left, it would be juicy but they saw through it! I FORGOT THIS BECAUSE IT YEILDED NO RESULTS AND WAS THEREFORE USELESS! NOW I REMEMBER BECAUSE IM INSULTED AND PISSED What? You didn't hammer him. He was already in the lead when you joined the wagon. | ||
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On December 05 2013 18:04 Alakaslam wrote: Well K look is he town or not? I been pushing him a lot Kind of ironic that you're bothered by someone being uncertain about his read, isn't it? Also, I would disagree that you've been pushing me - you have voted me but I can't recall any serious attempts at convincing others to join the wagon. | ||
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Also, could those on Holyflare explain why you think he's scum, and especially why you think he's the best lynch in LYLO? | ||
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Coagulation and you, one of Holyflare/Pandain perhaps. Hopeless1der is suspicious but I just re-read thrawn2112's filter and I think that kind of exonerates him a bit. | ||
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On December 07 2013 08:53 Coagulation wrote: why the fuck would you want to talk to alakaslam of all people left in the game? Lonemeow confirmed scum whos afraid to talk to anyone capable of linking coherent thoughts together in a sentence. Given he was the only one around why wouldn't I talk to him? | ||
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On December 08 2013 03:15 Hopeless1der wrote: PoE: what HF said. ##Vote: LoneMeow Do you still think Pandain is scum? | ||
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![[image loading]](http://asros.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/i_give_up.jpeg) Oh and I still think Coagulation's likely scum. ##Vote: Coagulation | ||
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Alakaslam, it's kind of ironic that you were the guy who wrote this: On November 16 2013 10:35 Alakaslam wrote: It's amazing how many pages two players duking it out creates. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF CAREERS LIMIT ATTACKS AND DEFENSES TO 3 POSTS OR SPOILER YOUR CONFRONTATIONS. THEY REALLY MEAN NOTHING UNTIL WE FEEL LIKE CHECKING IT OUT. FILTER FILTER FILTER! ENOUGH BS INTIMIDATING LAZY TOWN, THIS IS A BIG GAME DONT BE SELFISH SOB OR @SCUM, HAHA I TROLL U BACK STFU NOW I do this because almost page 100 day one Here is an example for all the hotheads, press quote and read to see the formatting: And then proceeded to spam the thread with: + Show Spoiler + On December 06 2013 16:16 Alakaslam wrote: Then do it so we can relax, Since you know. On December 06 2013 16:18 Alakaslam wrote: What does it say if you said this while back and still haven't been shot? On December 06 2013 16:25 Alakaslam wrote: Pffffftt Bahahahah reasoning makes BUT YOU SAID FOR TO NOT TO DRINK YOUR CHUPAZI COLA. So town has scum knowledge I assume? On December 06 2013 16:28 Alakaslam wrote: Well dat bus I'm gettin CONF BIAS watch out On December 06 2013 16:30 Alakaslam wrote: HOW DOES KNOW TUNNEL OF THUU IF NOT SAY HOW On December 06 2013 16:31 Alakaslam wrote: Lol Well fangless Thuu has no fangs for a reason On December 06 2013 16:33 Alakaslam wrote: It doesn't anymore, and SS has been wrong On December 06 2013 16:35 Alakaslam wrote: Thrawn. Pandain flying around in here Thrawn. Hopeless1der Alakaslam flying around somewhere in here Hopeless1der Hypocritical much? Or do you really think it's not ok to post a long single post but it's fine to do the same piecemeal in a dozen of separate posts? (To be honest, I think you were intentionally spamming the thread, because you're scum...) | ||
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I was honestly quite surprised that most of my mason partners didn't really seem to try to poke and prod me to find out my alignment, only austinmcc gave the impression that he really was trying to figure me out. yamato77, sorry for not voting you. I was 100% going to switch, but then I saw this: "I think it's really obvious that I'm town." And after such an appeal to ego I just couldn't. On November 21 2013 01:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: 10 hours into D2 LoneMeow wonders why Sharrant was killed. 30 hours into D2 LoneMeow says he did not realize Sharrant was dead. 100% lying. LoneMeow is mafia, 100% guaranteed!! This "someone cannot possibly forget anything about the state of the game in 20 hours" logic actually made me so angry I almost broke the rules in retaliation. Please remember, not everyone spends all of their time with the game. (Although I did spend far more time than you'd guess from the amount I posted.) On December 08 2013 13:20 Pandain wrote: Coag/Risen/Slam made things a lot harder because we had to know whether they were being town useless or scum useless. You should've added me to the list, I think. | ||
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On December 08 2013 21:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: I promise to cut down my posting for at least 50% if other people start playing these games. For example if there is a person in the game whose sole contribution on the day phase is "i wonder why Sharrant died" and after that he forgets Sharrant died i refuse to believe that person's win condition says get rid of mafia. It's not like I read my own filter every time I come back to the game. And not like I remember what exactly I was thinking when I come back to the game after 20 hours away from it. You're free to request a ban for playing against my wincon though, I'm fine with letting someone who wasn't in the game decide since they can probably be objective about it. To elaborate, it's incredibly frustrating when people complain about "not participating" and all that, when I was trying my best. It's not like I want to be crap at this, I simply don't know how to play better. And saying "you play against your wincon" and "you are shit" does not exactly help me get better. | ||
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