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On October 08 2013 00:36 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 00:26 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:23 austinmcc wrote:On October 08 2013 00:19 VisceraEyes wrote:On September 27 2013 20:10 Koshi wrote:
Hiro pro interesting guy. Do like. Need to follow up though. Otherwise will lynch.
 Like..... Maybe we should just lynch Koshi and #YOLO Except On October 01 2013 00:58 s0Lstice wrote:
right well I'm here, taking me awhile to catch up. I'm about to say fuck it and just start playing from here on (with a helpful summary for pages 40-now from someone) but we'll see how much time I get tonight. I didn't want to say much without having a complete picture of the goings on but if that means I never start talking then it's no good.
from what I've read I don't like hiro, or Oats. Cheesecakes weird pressure vote on Oats bothered me as well.
hiro for his entrance into the thread and early passivity (agree with Palmar's points here).
Oats (at least up to where I stopped) hasn't started tunneling anyone yet, and is doing his 'drop a question into a bucket' thing he does as scum. I saw him engaging with the thread but had trouble figuring out what he was hoping to get from his questions and/or didn't see what he was doing with the answers he got.
There's some rumblings for FT. Nothing struck me as odd about him from what I read. I'll look closer tonight. On October 02 2013 01:09 s0Lstice wrote:
like I said earlier I did get up to page 40 or so. still don't like the FT lynch. didn't see anything in his filter that screamed scum to me.
from what I saw I would like to lynch hiro On October 02 2013 04:19 s0Lstice wrote:
@austin: tell me how I express guilt, specifically as it retains to an internet forum. you must know as it's important to your read on me.
##vote hiro protagonist
All my townreads for the most part are on FT and that makes me not want to sheep after all Which do you think put more effective, convincing distance between the two players involved? Was I putting hiro in danger? Would ANYBODY think that he and I were linked after my early actions? Exactly. Both your stories have merit and oddities. Yours is the weaker story, imo.
Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 00:27 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 08 2013 00:23 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 08 2013 00:12 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:09 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 08 2013 00:04 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 08 2013 00:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
Just look at it like this: if you remove the cop claims and me and yourself from the pool you have 7 people. If you believe that one of the cop claims is scum, that means that out of 7 people, 3 are scum.
3 scum and 4 townies. Out of Pandain, Oats, rayn, austin, Cheese, CR, VA, there are 4 townies and 3 scum. The odds are almost exactly the same as choosing between the cop claims. But better odds w/cop claims by a little. And if we're looking for MCB you think we won't find it in solstice? I'm not sure why you think that honestly. It's actually really simple. The MCB is alone now, and in order to win he's got to kill everyone on the other scumteam IN ADDITION to all the townies. I find it far more likely that the MCB would have used his KP to kill last night - he's got SO MANY people to kill before he can win, and using KP for anything BUT killing is only prolonging the game (which is bad for scum). Now, don't ask me why if s0L is a Baller, he used the Payphone. I really honestly don't know his motivations. Maybe he was hoping to reach out to the final Banger in an attempt to work together. Maybe the whole intention was to counterclaim cop (though I doubt this as it was so messy and came out of nowhere). But in spite of it not making much sense, I find it more likely than the last Banger using Payphone. Payphone is 0,5KP. He shot VE. Probably had to use Payphone or Molotov for 0,5. Gambled. Lost. ezpz. OK I see. It seems weird that he stated it as an absolute but I technically it was the first thought I had regarding this. My original theory is Solstice is MCB, used a KP on you and Payphone to try and YOLO the fuck out of everyone because sitting and waiting to lose sucks and he didn't have it in him to try and hide for 2-3 days. Especially if he thinks he was already found out by the other scumteam. I just don't see why that theory makes any less sense than Solstice being on ballers. The part I don't understand IF solstice were MCB is the claim itself. He payphones, trying to hook up with the other scum team, sure, npnp. But then he gets outed as sending cheesecake a message. The FIRST thing he does is CLAIM COP. His very very very first response to being called out is the single thing that will 1000000% get him killed as mafia. He has no chance to win now. He dies if people don't trust his claim. He dies if Koshi ever flips. He is super duper dead. There is no wiggle room left, no hiding, he's out in the sun and there is no way he makes it til endgame. If solstice were the MCB, he wouldn't ensure his death like that. He just goes "cc lying, big scum play." Then he forces the lynch between himself and cc (if we assume a similar 1 on 1 scenario), where he's fighting a dude that might well be scum and NOT the claimed cop. If he can get cc lynched, and especially if cc flips scum, TA DA. (Putting aside that it doesn't make sense for scum cc on 3 man team to out scum solstice on 1 man team, leading to solstice death, leading to 1 team of KP tonight)
And you're 100% right. In order for Solstice to be MCB there has to be a YOLO factor involved because using Payphone to call anyone at all anyway makes no sense, whether he decides to fight Koshi or CC.
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On October 08 2013 00:37 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 00:32 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:29 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:20 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:11 Koshi wrote:
S0lstice.
You think I am part of 3-man team. You want to know the entire 3 man team with your walky talking ploy. Why do you go for CC? Like, why not go for Me or one of my confirmed townies?
Why CC? At the time I decided to walkie-talkie CC, I was really fucking certain I had scum with him. The nice thing about this option is that it stood aside from you+confirmed townies. I had mindfucked myself so hard in figuring out what it is you are exactly doing that even when I had reasoned my way onto one side, the amount of niggling doubts were still enormous. All things considered, choosing a strong scum-read that was largely independent of the you situation seemed the safest. More, there was a chance that you guys were linked and I would end up with some corroborating evidence aside from the fact that you claimed my role. It really seemed like a win-win, a way to kill two-birds with one stone. ...and, in the end, I always had the knowledge that I was going to have to counter-claim if you never stepped down as a fake-claiming town. I didn't really expect it to be this fucking difficult, or for you to sell your fake claim so fucking well. I knew I'd get heat for not countering immediately but I thought that the truth was gonna win out. Apparently the lateness of it trumps the truth. tldr: On N3 you still thought I was town? No, maybe you shouldn't tldr it. I just don't understand you. Like, if I was scum I was always on the 3 man team (you confirmed this earlier). So if you are a cop, why not contact me, why contact CC? Because it seems you were certain about both me and CC? And we are in the same scumteam, and you knew rayn was in our team. Why not simple shoot me, and then say: "oh hi guis, I am cop, Koshi obviously isn't, his teammates are 100% CC and 85% rayn". That would actually make sense if you were a cop.
If you are scum why am i on your team?
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On October 08 2013 00:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 00:37 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:32 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:29 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:20 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:11 Koshi wrote:
S0lstice.
You think I am part of 3-man team. You want to know the entire 3 man team with your walky talking ploy. Why do you go for CC? Like, why not go for Me or one of my confirmed townies?
Why CC? At the time I decided to walkie-talkie CC, I was really fucking certain I had scum with him. The nice thing about this option is that it stood aside from you+confirmed townies. I had mindfucked myself so hard in figuring out what it is you are exactly doing that even when I had reasoned my way onto one side, the amount of niggling doubts were still enormous. All things considered, choosing a strong scum-read that was largely independent of the you situation seemed the safest. More, there was a chance that you guys were linked and I would end up with some corroborating evidence aside from the fact that you claimed my role. It really seemed like a win-win, a way to kill two-birds with one stone. ...and, in the end, I always had the knowledge that I was going to have to counter-claim if you never stepped down as a fake-claiming town. I didn't really expect it to be this fucking difficult, or for you to sell your fake claim so fucking well. I knew I'd get heat for not countering immediately but I thought that the truth was gonna win out. Apparently the lateness of it trumps the truth. tldr: On N3 you still thought I was town? No, maybe you shouldn't tldr it. I just don't understand you. Like, if I was scum I was always on the 3 man team (you confirmed this earlier). So if you are a cop, why not contact me, why contact CC? Because it seems you were certain about both me and CC? And we are in the same scumteam, and you knew rayn was in our team. Why not simple shoot me, and then say: "oh hi guis, I am cop, Koshi obviously isn't, his teammates are 100% CC and 85% rayn". That would actually make sense if you were a cop. If you are scum why am i on your team?
He said it.
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Oh right. Anyways it doesn't even matter because Sol is scum.
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On October 08 2013 00:37 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 00:32 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:29 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:20 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:11 Koshi wrote:
S0lstice.
You think I am part of 3-man team. You want to know the entire 3 man team with your walky talking ploy. Why do you go for CC? Like, why not go for Me or one of my confirmed townies?
Why CC? At the time I decided to walkie-talkie CC, I was really fucking certain I had scum with him. The nice thing about this option is that it stood aside from you+confirmed townies. I had mindfucked myself so hard in figuring out what it is you are exactly doing that even when I had reasoned my way onto one side, the amount of niggling doubts were still enormous. All things considered, choosing a strong scum-read that was largely independent of the you situation seemed the safest. More, there was a chance that you guys were linked and I would end up with some corroborating evidence aside from the fact that you claimed my role. It really seemed like a win-win, a way to kill two-birds with one stone. ...and, in the end, I always had the knowledge that I was going to have to counter-claim if you never stepped down as a fake-claiming town. I didn't really expect it to be this fucking difficult, or for you to sell your fake claim so fucking well. I knew I'd get heat for not countering immediately but I thought that the truth was gonna win out. Apparently the lateness of it trumps the truth. tldr: On N3 you still thought I was town? No, maybe you shouldn't tldr it. I just don't understand you. Like, if I was scum I was always on the 3 man team (you confirmed this earlier). So if you are a cop, why not contact me, why contact CC? Because it seems you were certain about both me and CC? And we are in the same scumteam, and you knew rayn was in our team. Why not simple shoot me, and then say: "oh hi guis, I am cop, Koshi obviously isn't, his teammates are 100% CC and 85% rayn". That would actually make sense if you were a cop.
This is a pretty good point, and it comes back to exactly what 'beeg plays' exactly was Solstice trying to make? Stuff like this is where the claim breaks down because while he was able to defend himself pretty well, the motivation on a lot of his 'cop' actions make even less sense than the scum ones.
More like this, Koshi.
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Guys you are looking it the wrong way.
We do not know what motivation Solstice had to contact Mr.CC. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that when he DID contact him, he HAD to claim cop because that was his only option.
Also he did not counter-claim Koshi in the first place, and let him run around "confirming" townies. That's all the evidence we need. He is mafia.
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On October 08 2013 00:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Guys you are looking it the wrong way.
We do not know what motivation Solstice had to contact Mr.CC. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that when he DID contact him, he HAD to claim cop because that was his only option.
Also he did not counter-claim Koshi in the first place, and let him run around "confirming" townies. That's all the evidence we need. He is mafia. He did NOT have to claim cop.
He had the option of saying CC was lying.
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I am just waiting on s0lstice.
There is a right answer.
So crazy.
Will he find it?
dum dum dum
^ dramatic effect.
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If Solstice was a cop, he would ambulance himself on N3, claim on N3, and lynch Koshi the next day. His play makes no sense from cop pov. Simple.
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On October 08 2013 00:41 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 00:37 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:32 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:29 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:20 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:11 Koshi wrote:
S0lstice.
You think I am part of 3-man team. You want to know the entire 3 man team with your walky talking ploy. Why do you go for CC? Like, why not go for Me or one of my confirmed townies?
Why CC? At the time I decided to walkie-talkie CC, I was really fucking certain I had scum with him. The nice thing about this option is that it stood aside from you+confirmed townies. I had mindfucked myself so hard in figuring out what it is you are exactly doing that even when I had reasoned my way onto one side, the amount of niggling doubts were still enormous. All things considered, choosing a strong scum-read that was largely independent of the you situation seemed the safest. More, there was a chance that you guys were linked and I would end up with some corroborating evidence aside from the fact that you claimed my role. It really seemed like a win-win, a way to kill two-birds with one stone. ...and, in the end, I always had the knowledge that I was going to have to counter-claim if you never stepped down as a fake-claiming town. I didn't really expect it to be this fucking difficult, or for you to sell your fake claim so fucking well. I knew I'd get heat for not countering immediately but I thought that the truth was gonna win out. Apparently the lateness of it trumps the truth. tldr: On N3 you still thought I was town? No, maybe you shouldn't tldr it. I just don't understand you. Like, if I was scum I was always on the 3 man team (you confirmed this earlier). So if you are a cop, why not contact me, why contact CC? Because it seems you were certain about both me and CC? And we are in the same scumteam, and you knew rayn was in our team. Why not simple shoot me, and then say: "oh hi guis, I am cop, Koshi obviously isn't, his teammates are 100% CC and 85% rayn". That would actually make sense if you were a cop. This is a pretty good point, and it comes back to exactly what 'beeg plays' exactly was Solstice trying to make? Stuff like this is where the claim breaks down , because while he was able to defend himself pretty well, the motivation on a lot of his 'cop' actions make even less sense than the scum ones. More like this, Koshi.
I wish I could let you inside of my head at the time, but what I did with my actions really seemed like the smartest course. The one thing I thought I could hang my hat on was the scumread on Mr. CC. Everything else was mixed up or convoluted by what Koshi was doing. I had constantly evolving opinions on that blackhole but one thing I felt really good enough to act on was Mr. CC...and as a bonus I could maybe clear up the mindfuck that was Koshi.
A lot of the problems people have seem to reduce to this. Motivations for any possible scenario are bogus by typical standards, so they go back to what is wisest and most prudent for generic cop man to do in the situation and I don't match. I can see why, but its a mistake
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On October 08 2013 00:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Guys you are looking it the wrong way.
We do not know what motivation Solstice had to contact Mr.CC. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that when he DID contact him, he HAD to claim cop because that was his only option.
Also he did not counter-claim Koshi in the first place, and let him run around "confirming" townies. That's all the evidence we need. He is mafia.
Well technically Austin is right and Solstice could have just tried to get CC lynched based on saying that CC lied and Solstice didn't really contact anyone. But yeah I agree.
I feel better again guise.
WIFOMing myself fucking sucks.
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On October 08 2013 00:44 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 00:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Guys you are looking it the wrong way.
We do not know what motivation Solstice had to contact Mr.CC. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that when he DID contact him, he HAD to claim cop because that was his only option.
Also he did not counter-claim Koshi in the first place, and let him run around "confirming" townies. That's all the evidence we need. He is mafia. He did NOT have to claim cop. He had the option of saying CC was lying.
Yes but if you fight against Mr.CC rather than Koshi, the cop is confirmed and so are the townies.
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and just for the record, if we all agree that im not MCB then WHY THE FUCK AM I STILL HERE. IM BASICALLY DEAD.
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On October 08 2013 00:46 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 00:41 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 08 2013 00:37 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:32 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:29 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:20 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:11 Koshi wrote:
S0lstice.
You think I am part of 3-man team. You want to know the entire 3 man team with your walky talking ploy. Why do you go for CC? Like, why not go for Me or one of my confirmed townies?
Why CC? At the time I decided to walkie-talkie CC, I was really fucking certain I had scum with him. The nice thing about this option is that it stood aside from you+confirmed townies. I had mindfucked myself so hard in figuring out what it is you are exactly doing that even when I had reasoned my way onto one side, the amount of niggling doubts were still enormous. All things considered, choosing a strong scum-read that was largely independent of the you situation seemed the safest. More, there was a chance that you guys were linked and I would end up with some corroborating evidence aside from the fact that you claimed my role. It really seemed like a win-win, a way to kill two-birds with one stone. ...and, in the end, I always had the knowledge that I was going to have to counter-claim if you never stepped down as a fake-claiming town. I didn't really expect it to be this fucking difficult, or for you to sell your fake claim so fucking well. I knew I'd get heat for not countering immediately but I thought that the truth was gonna win out. Apparently the lateness of it trumps the truth. tldr: On N3 you still thought I was town? No, maybe you shouldn't tldr it. I just don't understand you. Like, if I was scum I was always on the 3 man team (you confirmed this earlier). So if you are a cop, why not contact me, why contact CC? Because it seems you were certain about both me and CC? And we are in the same scumteam, and you knew rayn was in our team. Why not simple shoot me, and then say: "oh hi guis, I am cop, Koshi obviously isn't, his teammates are 100% CC and 85% rayn". That would actually make sense if you were a cop. This is a pretty good point, and it comes back to exactly what 'beeg plays' exactly was Solstice trying to make? Stuff like this is where the claim breaks down , because while he was able to defend himself pretty well, the motivation on a lot of his 'cop' actions make even less sense than the scum ones. More like this, Koshi. I wish I could let you inside of my head at the time, but what I did with my actions really seemed like the smartest course. The one thing I thought I could hang my hat on was the scumread on Mr. CC. Everything else was mixed up or convoluted by what Koshi was doing. I had constantly evolving opinions on that blackhole but one thing I felt really good enough to act on was Mr. CC...and as a bonus I could maybe clear up the mindfuck that was Koshi. A lot of the problems people have seem to reduce to this. Motivations for any possible scenario are bogus by typical standards, so they go back to what is wisest and most prudent for generic cop man to do in the situation and I don't match. I can see why, but its a mistake
Except here's the issue Solstice, using your mindset as an example doesn't work because making a mistake doesn't make you town. if you're scum you clearly made a mistake too.
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On October 08 2013 00:47 s0Lstice wrote:
and just for the record, if we all agree that im not MCB then WHY THE FUCK AM I STILL HERE. IM BASICALLY DEAD.
We don't all agree. I still think you very well could be.
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On October 08 2013 00:47 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 00:46 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:41 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 08 2013 00:37 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:32 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:29 Koshi wrote:On October 08 2013 00:20 s0Lstice wrote:On October 08 2013 00:11 Koshi wrote:
S0lstice.
You think I am part of 3-man team. You want to know the entire 3 man team with your walky talking ploy. Why do you go for CC? Like, why not go for Me or one of my confirmed townies?
Why CC? At the time I decided to walkie-talkie CC, I was really fucking certain I had scum with him. The nice thing about this option is that it stood aside from you+confirmed townies. I had mindfucked myself so hard in figuring out what it is you are exactly doing that even when I had reasoned my way onto one side, the amount of niggling doubts were still enormous. All things considered, choosing a strong scum-read that was largely independent of the you situation seemed the safest. More, there was a chance that you guys were linked and I would end up with some corroborating evidence aside from the fact that you claimed my role. It really seemed like a win-win, a way to kill two-birds with one stone. ...and, in the end, I always had the knowledge that I was going to have to counter-claim if you never stepped down as a fake-claiming town. I didn't really expect it to be this fucking difficult, or for you to sell your fake claim so fucking well. I knew I'd get heat for not countering immediately but I thought that the truth was gonna win out. Apparently the lateness of it trumps the truth. tldr: On N3 you still thought I was town? No, maybe you shouldn't tldr it. I just don't understand you. Like, if I was scum I was always on the 3 man team (you confirmed this earlier). So if you are a cop, why not contact me, why contact CC? Because it seems you were certain about both me and CC? And we are in the same scumteam, and you knew rayn was in our team. Why not simple shoot me, and then say: "oh hi guis, I am cop, Koshi obviously isn't, his teammates are 100% CC and 85% rayn". That would actually make sense if you were a cop. This is a pretty good point, and it comes back to exactly what 'beeg plays' exactly was Solstice trying to make? Stuff like this is where the claim breaks down , because while he was able to defend himself pretty well, the motivation on a lot of his 'cop' actions make even less sense than the scum ones. More like this, Koshi. I wish I could let you inside of my head at the time, but what I did with my actions really seemed like the smartest course. The one thing I thought I could hang my hat on was the scumread on Mr. CC. Everything else was mixed up or convoluted by what Koshi was doing. I had constantly evolving opinions on that blackhole but one thing I felt really good enough to act on was Mr. CC...and as a bonus I could maybe clear up the mindfuck that was Koshi. A lot of the problems people have seem to reduce to this. Motivations for any possible scenario are bogus by typical standards, so they go back to what is wisest and most prudent for generic cop man to do in the situation and I don't match. I can see why, but its a mistake Except here's the issue Solstice, using your mindset as an example doesn't work because making a mistake doesn't make you town. if you're scum you clearly made a mistake too.
No, my claim is being ruled out based on the criteria I described. If this criteria is invalid, what is left to be wrong with my claim? Do you see what I'm saying?
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TLDR;
The point is what Solstice did, it is what he should have done if he was a cop.
We can't know his (teams) reasons for scum motivation, but there is zero town motivation for his actions.
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EBWOP: ...NOT what he did..
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On October 08 2013 00:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 00:44 austinmcc wrote:On October 08 2013 00:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Guys you are looking it the wrong way.
We do not know what motivation Solstice had to contact Mr.CC. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that when he DID contact him, he HAD to claim cop because that was his only option.
Also he did not counter-claim Koshi in the first place, and let him run around "confirming" townies. That's all the evidence we need. He is mafia. He did NOT have to claim cop. He had the option of saying CC was lying. Yes but if you fight against Mr.CC rather than Koshi, the cop is confirmed and so are the townies. Solstice the MCB doesn't care.
He's one man. He's all alone, like VE was with the bear earlier.
You're saying that solstice, as the last man on his scumteam, would go for the play where he puts suspicion on koshi's townies for a day BUT GETS 1000000% KILLED.
He absolutely loses if he goes for this play.
If he calls out cc, he fights against cc rather than koshi, has confirmed townies lying around, but he doesn't 100000% die.
If he's the one-man team, not 10000% dying is better than having a harder lategame.
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On October 08 2013 00:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
The point is what Solstice did, it is what he should have done if he was a cop.
We can't know his (teams) reasons for scum motivation, but there is zero town motivation for his actions.
This does not work.
's0l didn't do what I would do as cop so he is scum' does not at all apply. You may not like my reasons for doing what I did, but clearly I had reasons, and them being different from what you think I shoulda done does not make me scum. By the same criteria you should also be considering, by your standards, dumb comb.
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EPT
