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Message GMarshal if you request a ban please ^_^ Also when the game you're sitting out is over! ~GMarshal | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
On October 09 2013 07:03 GMarshal wrote: Approved :D geript is sitting out Hogwarts atm, he should PM me when its over so I can remove him VE, remember to sit something out please ^_^ VE did the exact same thing as mocst and everyone was like oh ok 1 game ban and that was that. you guys need to stop cherry picking shit. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On March 08 2014 10:47 geript wrote: 1 game ban for first offense is standard. Even if you don't like it that standard has been set a few times and multiple people have gotten off with less. Moc should be 1 game not more. Edit: Basically just because someone isn't popular or isn't well liked doesn't mean they should get worse treatment. irrelevant as well also wrong http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/423047-got-mafia-lords-and-liars?page=200#3983 | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On March 08 2014 10:48 Aquanim wrote: There's "offences" and then there's "posting your role PM in the thread". Again, people have done the same or similar things before. They got 1 game. It's unfair for him to get more. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On March 08 2014 10:52 Coagulation wrote: VE did the exact same thing as mocst and everyone was like oh ok 1 game ban and that was that. you guys need to stop cherry picking shit. On March 08 2014 10:52 geript wrote: Again, people have done the same or similar things before. They got 1 game. It's unfair for him to get more. Well then, whoever gave that duration of ban before screwed up, and I'm setting a more appropriate precedent. Giving the same duration of ban to, say, a newbie who forgets to vote and to somebody who deliberately modkills themselves is kind of ridiculous. Part of the reason for my leniency compared to Iamp is that he didn't completely ruin the game, just modkilled a single VT. If he'd outed his entire scumteam or some shit, then we'd be talking a perm. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On March 08 2014 10:52 Coagulation wrote: VE did the exact same thing as mocst and everyone was like oh ok 1 game ban and that was that. you guys need to stop cherry picking shit. he should of got a longer ban too. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 08 2014 09:45 Aquanim wrote: Okay then. I think that a player threatening, or saying that he would be willing to, abuse his host powers in another game to punish another player for their play in the current game is a terrible precedent if it's allowed. For the record, I'm not at all bothered by such a statement made in game (though I'm also more lax about bad behavior than most). It's one thing to be playing in a mafia game, get into a heated moment, and say something you don't mean and an entirely another thing to actually do something like modkilling a player in a game because you don't like him. At least, I'm 99.9% sure even if he was playing in Geript's game Geript would not have modkilled him. Mafia gets heated, and when people are heated they may say and do stupid stuff in the game, but the majority of the time it stays in the game (and when it doesn't they are banned). Was his behavior in the game setting a bad precedent? Yes. Was the modkill in game warranted given the rules stated? Yes. Are players (including geript) less likely to exhibit such behavior, like passive out-of-game threats since it's not going to be tolerated? Yes. Can 95% of the players here afford to be nicer when playing in games? Yes. Worth banning over? No. You can get someone banned from hosting, you just talk to me about it not GM. It's actually really easy. All you have to do is send me a PM with the following information: 1) What the host did that violated the (hosting) rules. 2) Proof that the crime in question was made with malicious or selfish intent (i.e. it wasn't a one-time accident). 3) Reasoning why you think the host will continue the behavior. The only thing is that most people can't even properly do the first part. People are just angry and they want someone to blame. And the host is very convenient to blame. 95% of the conversations go like this: Player: "X should totally be banned from hosting! They are a terrible host!" Foolishness: "okay, what did they do that was against the rules?" Player: "They modkilled me over *insert grey area situation here*!" or "They wouldn't let me use my role in a way I wanted!" or "He was a dick for modkilling this other player!" Foolishness: "okay, where in the rules does it say the host is not allowed to do this?" Player: "Well, no where, but it was still a dick thing to do!" tl;dr Suck it up guys, everyone's been modkilled for one reason or another. Doesn't mean the host is a dick or a bad host. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
On March 08 2014 10:58 Hopeless1der wrote: It seems like this is a repeat offense for mocsta. Phone makes verifying difficult, does this check out? no hes not on the ban list as of now nor has he been removed. since the reset that is. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On March 08 2014 10:57 marvellosity wrote: ban request for mocsta seems pretty reasonable. you always agree with me. what gives? | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
On March 08 2014 10:58 Foolishness wrote: For the record, I'm not at all bothered by such a statement made in game (though I'm also more lax about bad behavior than most). It's one thing to be playing in a mafia game, get into a heated moment, and say something you don't mean and an entirely another thing to actually do something like modkilling a player in a game because you don't like him. At least, I'm 99.9% sure even if he was playing in Geript's game Geript would not have modkilled him. Mafia gets heated, and when people are heated they may say and do stupid stuff in the game, but the majority of the time it stays in the game (and when it doesn't they are banned). Was his behavior in the game setting a bad precedent? Yes. Was the modkill in game warranted given the rules stated? Yes. Are players (including geript) less likely to exhibit such behavior, like passive out-of-game threats since it's not going to be tolerated? Yes. Can 95% of the players here afford to be nicer when playing in games? Yes. Worth banning over? No. You can get someone banned from hosting, you just talk to me about it not GM. It's actually really easy. All you have to do is send me a PM with the following information: 1) What the host did that violated the (hosting) rules. 2) Proof that the crime in question was made with malicious or selfish intent (i.e. it wasn't a one-time accident). 3) Reasoning why you think the host will continue the behavior. The only thing is that most people can't even properly do the first part. People are just angry and they want someone to blame. And the host is very convenient to blame. 95% of the conversations go like this: Player: "X should totally be banned from hosting! They are a terrible host!" Foolishness: "okay, what did they do that was against the rules?" Player: "They modkilled me over *insert grey area situation here*!" or "They wouldn't let me use my role in a way I wanted!" or "He was a dick for modkilling this other player!" Foolishness: "okay, where in the rules does it say the host is not allowed to do this?" Player: "Well, no where, but it was still a dick thing to do!" tl;dr Suck it up guys, everyone's been modkilled for one reason or another. Doesn't mean the host is a dick or a bad host. How can you ban someone from hosting a mafia game on tl.net if they want to host a game? theres like zero way you can decide/enforce if someones allowed to host a mafia game or not. I mean it can be "non sanctioned by the tlmafia queu" But as long as someones not breaking any TL commandments with their game you really dont have any right to be telling people if they can post or not. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On March 08 2014 11:03 Coagulation wrote: How can you ban someone from hosting a mafia game on tl.net if they want to host a game? theres like zero way you can decide/enforce if someones allowed to host a mafia game or not. I mean it can be "non sanctioned by the tlmafia queu" But as long as someones not breaking any TL commandments with their game you really dont have any right to be telling people if they can post or not. Commandment 1. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
@Foolish I have question; On March 08 2014 10:58 Foolishness wrote: For the record, I'm not at all bothered by such a statement made in game (though I'm also more lax about bad behavior than most). It's one thing to be playing in a mafia game, get into a heated moment, and say something you don't mean and an entirely another thing to actually do something like modkilling a player in a game because you don't like him. At least, I'm 99.9% sure even if he was playing in Geript's game Geript would not have modkilled him. Mafia gets heated, and when people are heated they may say and do stupid stuff in the game, but the majority of the time it stays in the game (and when it doesn't they are banned). Was his behavior in the game setting a bad precedent? Yes. Was the modkill in game warranted given the rules stated? Yes. Are players (including geript) less likely to exhibit such behavior, like passive out-of-game threats since it's not going to be tolerated? Yes. Can 95% of the players here afford to be nicer when playing in games? Yes. Worth banning over? No. You can get someone banned from hosting, you just talk to me about it not GM. It's actually really easy. All you have to do is send me a PM with the following information: 1) What the host did that violated the (hosting) rules. 2) Proof that the crime in question was made with malicious or selfish intent (i.e. it wasn't a one-time accident). 3) Reasoning why you think the host will continue the behavior. The only thing is that most people can't even properly do the first part. People are just angry and they want someone to blame. And the host is very convenient to blame. 95% of the conversations go like this: Player: "X should totally be banned from hosting! They are a terrible host!" Foolishness: "okay, what did they do that was against the rules?" Player: "They modkilled me over *insert grey area situation here*!" or "They wouldn't let me use my role in a way I wanted!" or "He was a dick for modkilling this other player!" Foolishness: "okay, where in the rules does it say the host is not allowed to do this?" Player: "Well, no where, but it was still a dick thing to do!" tl;dr Suck it up guys, everyone's been modkilled for one reason or another. Doesn't mean the host is a dick or a bad host. BH indicates "Not to coach you too hard here, but you modkilled geript for violating a rule that other people don't use, which is fine, but if you want to request a ban it has to be on the common values shared on TLMafia." You indicate "For the record, I'm not at all bothered by such a statement made in game (though I'm also more lax about bad behavior than most). It's one thing to be playing in a mafia game, get into a heated moment, and say something you don't mean and an entirely another thing to actually do something like modkilling a player in a game because you don't like him. At least, I'm 99.9% sure even if he was playing in Geript's game Geript would not have modkilled him. Mafia gets heated, and when people are heated they may say and do stupid stuff in the game, but the majority of the time it stays in the game (and when it doesn't they are banned)." (A side question you may know that, but do other players in the game, especially those newer to the forum, in the heat of the game, or are they threatened.) The important question. "Was the modkill in game warranted given the rules stated? Yes." "Worth banning over? No." Is the not worth banning tied to the rule, not being a core/common TL rule as per BH or the severity of the breach? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 08 2014 11:34 Keirathi wrote: I will say that I vehemently disagree with that point from BH. IMO, when you /in to a game you are consenting to follow that game's rules even if they aren't "normal" TL rules. I don't think a rule being non-standard should exclude you from the consequences of breaking those rules. yeah this pretty much. On top of this the rule itself isn't non-standard, Aqua has just made it a point that he wanted the game to be more civil than most games on TL and pretty much stated that he's going the be stricter on behavior things with his OP. That's not a new rule, it's just toughening the already existing rule to not be a dick. All there really is to say here is for people to look at the OP itself and how much Aqua made that a point himself: + Show Spoiler [6(!) quotes from the OP] + I will do whatever I feel is necessary, before and during the game, to ensure people who sign up to this game and make an effort to play to expectations (as defined below) enjoy playing this game themselves. If you do not satisfy these criteria, expect no consideration from me. I expect two things from everybody who plays this game: 1. Play in such a way that everybody can have fun. 2. Play to win. I appreciate that Mafia is an emotional game, and that furthermore many Mafia players use annoying others and gauging their emotional reactions as a strategy. I don't want to cramp your style and I will try to be permissive - however, be aware that there are limits to my tolerance. Unacceptable behaviours include:
IMPORTANT: DO NOT ABUSE THESE RULES. If you have a problem with someone else's posting bring it to me PRIVATELY. If you attempt to leverage for in-game purposes your dissatisfaction (genuine or not) with someone else's play, for whatever motives, I WILL modkill you. You will not be given a warning first. and finally Yes, perhaps I'm being tyrannical. I have some distaste myself for these measures but I think they're necessary to ensure that everyone who plays has a good time. If that bothers you too much, just don't sign up. That's pretty much the same statement 6 times in a row showing how important this was to Aqua. It's been clear as day to everyone signing up that he's going to hold this up more strictly than the majority of hosts on TL do and there's nothing wrong with that if you state so previously. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
I think it is kind of grey because whilst geript did break the rules stated by aqua in the OP, the rules stated in the OP are dumb and fall outside of the norms of TLmafia. I personally would not want geript to be banned. Mocsta ban seems fine I like the guy and hopefully he can take a break and come back at some stage with less stress etc. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On March 08 2014 11:34 Keirathi wrote: I will say that I vehemently disagree with that point from BH. IMO, when you /in to a game you are consenting to follow that game's rules even if they aren't "normal" TL rules. I don't think a rule being non-standard should exclude you from the consequences of breaking those rules. I just want to understand you're point here clearly. My rule set for PYP is probably one of the strictest around. People even noted it in pregame. Let's say I modkill someone for breaking a rule. You agree that they should receive a ban? For example, austinmcc made a post after his death. My rule set specifically says no posting after death and I reminded people of it twice. Does he deserve a ban for breaking the rules? Prome made a point to say that I should remind people of the differences between my rules and 'normal' rules. I don't think that would be fair or right and I would hope everyone would speak up for that. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 08 2014 11:53 geript wrote: I just want to understand you're point here clearly. My rule set for PYP is probably one of the strictest around. People even noted it in pregame. Let's say I modkill someone for breaking a rule. You agree that they should receive a ban? For example, austinmcc made a post after his death. My rule set specifically says no posting after death and I reminded people of it twice. Does he deserve a ban for breaking the rules? Prome made a point to say that I should remind people of the differences between my rules and 'normal' rules. I don't think that would be fair or right and I would hope everyone would speak up for that. I don't know the situation but sounds like a warning if it had no real influence on the game and a ban if it did, so yes. | ||
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