EPTAs for Mocsta, isn't a 1-game ban the norm for these types of ragequits? Hell I've seen forum-vets get off with warnings for intentionally modkilling themselves in rage. I see no reason why his actions deserve more punishment in this situation. Posting your role PM doesn't make a ragequit twice as bad. A ragequit is a ragequit.
TL Mafia Ban List 2.0 - Page 47
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Message GMarshal if you request a ban please ^_^ Also when the game you're sitting out is over! ~GMarshal | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
As for Mocsta, isn't a 1-game ban the norm for these types of ragequits? Hell I've seen forum-vets get off with warnings for intentionally modkilling themselves in rage. I see no reason why his actions deserve more punishment in this situation. Posting your role PM doesn't make a ragequit twice as bad. A ragequit is a ragequit. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On March 08 2014 16:50 Hapahauli wrote: Geript receiving any ban for his behavior would be absurd. His behavior seemed fine. Mafia is an emotional game, and you can't punish players for every minor outburst of frustration. As for Mocsta, isn't a 1-game ban the norm for these types of ragequits? Hell I've seen forum-vets get off with warnings for intentionally modkilling themselves in rage. I see no reason why his actions deserve more punishment in this situation. Posting your role PM doesn't make a ragequit twice as bad. A ragequit is a ragequit. Many players had "minor outbursts of frusturation" during Cultured Mini Mafia, and mostly I don't even consider them warnable. However, as far as I'm concerned, saying that you will inflict consequences in future games on someone or that you would be willing to abuse your position as a host because you're frusturated with them crosses a line. "I can say whatever I like because I'm annoyed" is not an attitude I consider acceptable, and 11/13 of the players in my game had no trouble with following my rules. Like DarthPunk observed, I'm not running my game for the benefit of everyone on the forum - only for the people who are willing to play by my rules, which are intended to make the game enjoyable for all players. Plenty of people seem to be fine with that. If you want to be able to rage and say whatever you like, join someone else's game - there are plenty of them. As for Mocsta, there is a difference between a player saying to the host "I'm leaving this game, either modkill me or replace me", which would not have a huge negative effect on the game if their slot could be replaced, and forcing their slot to be modkilled by posting their role PMs. If the forum agrees that this kind of thing should only be a one-game ban or a warning, then GMarshal can make that decision. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 08 2014 17:00 Aquanim wrote: Many players had "minor outbursts of frusturation" during Cultured Mini Mafia, and mostly I don't even consider them warnable. However, as far as I'm concerned, saying that you will inflict consequences in future games on someone or that you would be willing to abuse your position as a host because you're frusturated with them crosses a line. "I can say whatever I like because I'm annoyed" is not an attitude I consider acceptable. People say a lot of things in-thread that are not 100% serious... especially when things cool down. As for Mocsta, there is a difference between a player saying to the host "I'm leaving this game, either modkill me or replace me", which would not have a huge negative effect on the game if their slot could be replaced, and forcing their slot to be modkilled by posting their role PMs. If the forum agrees that this kind of thing should only be a one-game ban or a warning, then GMarshal can make that decision. Every situation I've seen with a ragequit effectively confirms the slot as town through some mechanic or behavior. I don't think the "alternative situation" you describe is realistic at all, nor has it happened in any of the previous ragequit situations. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On March 08 2014 16:22 Aquanim wrote: Quote the post in question and say which of my rules he broke, or stop wasting my time. You're making ridiculous allegations without proof. Here are the relevant posts: On February 27 2014 11:59 gumshoe wrote: Fuck you man, I dont wanna hear shit from you, your so fucking blind it scares me, how the fuck can you believe that Moc is scum after the game that you just hydrad with him!? The two play styles are totally different. You should be the one defending him honestly, yet your so caught up in your own massive ego that even when you realize how scummy suki is, you still wont give up on Moc, cause that would mean you were wrong wouldnt it? And we cant have that now can we, cause thats never happened before right? On February 27 2014 12:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Take a break gumshoe. This is clearly within your "unacceptable behavior" part in your rules. I even brought this up in obs QT, and here is what you told me: Gumshoe's post was indeed insulting and whatever towards you but he was making a valid point about the current game (namely, that you were wrong about Mocsta and that your massive ego was blinding you to that). Now the red part is total bullshit and has nothing to do with how you should follow your own rules. It does not matter if gumshoe is right or wrong about me, what matters is that he is showing unacceptable behavior towards another player in the game. Just because you don't like me and you think i am worth of taking this kinda shit from people doesn't mean you should treat your players in the game differently based on who they are. Now i have nothing against gumshoe and i don't take these insults personally, but you, as a host should follow your own rules regardless who the target of the insults is - and i think you are incapable of doing so based on your personal view of the players. Again, if i had said something like that to, let's say suki you had immediately modkilled me and if you claim anything else you are a liar. Once again, bullshit. It is true that the people I like will tend not to break my rules, and the people I don't like will be more likely to break them. The ENTIRE POINT of enforcing those rules was so that I could run a game for people who play in such a way that it is worth my time to moderate them. I don't even know what your problem is with this. My problem is that it clearly shows you don't like geript and it blinds your judgement on your actions. whether or not you like it or realize it it's true. Marv doesn't think that my rules have any place on the forum. That's his opinion, and it's irrelevant. Under my rules it was modkillable and hence banworthy. I knew somebody would try this argument... Using meta is in fact relevant to the current game, since by looking at somebody's play in past games you can make conclusions about their play in the current game, which are useful to the outcome of the current game. Saying that you will policy lynch someone in future games because you don't like how they're playing in the current game is attempting to inflict out-of-game consequences on somebody for their actions in the current game, and as such is against my rules. Red part: What marv is saying is basically that you interpret your own rules in an unreasonable manner, which i agree with, because those interpretations do not belong to a mafia game as what geript did is a part of a game of mafia. Green part: Fair enough, if this is how you read your rules then i am not going to argue about this. To be honest I feel bad for Mocsta too, but deliberately getting yourself modkilled is a greater offence than screwing up something by mistake and I believe the consequences should reflect that. Yes, you are right. What i am saying is that other people have made the same thing in the past and they have gotten a 1-game ban for it, that's why i think Mocsta should get only one game ban aswell. But that's not up to me to decide, that's just my personal opinion. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On March 08 2014 17:05 Hapahauli wrote: People say a lot of things in-thread that are not 100% serious... especially when things cool down. Indeed they do. And up to a certain point, I make allowances for that. Geript crossed that point, in a way which was clearly stated in the OP. Saying "Oh, I didn't mean it" later doesn't change that. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On March 08 2014 10:58 Foolishness wrote: For the record, I'm not at all bothered by such a statement made in game (though I'm also more lax about bad behavior than most). It's one thing to be playing in a mafia game, get into a heated moment, and say something you don't mean and an entirely another thing to actually do something like modkilling a player in a game because you don't like him. At least, I'm 99.9% sure even if he was playing in Geript's game Geript would not have modkilled him. Mafia gets heated, and when people are heated they may say and do stupid stuff in the game, but the majority of the time it stays in the game (and when it doesn't they are banned). This is also my perspective on the issue. | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
"fuck you man" is clearly worse then "policy lynch you man" | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
This is clearly within your "unacceptable behavior" part in your rules. Which part? Examples I gave of unacceptable behaviour were: 1) Personal attacks (as in, attacking the person rather than the argument). You could make a case that he broke this one, but he's not calling you names; he's making an assessment of your argument for calling Mocsta scum based on you as a person. Which is acceptable. "Take a shit, because you're full of it" is borderline. 2) Unreasonable threats, either in-game or out-game. Clearly not broken. 3) Posts not about the current game. He meta'd you, that's fine. Again, if i had said something like that to, let's say suki you had immediately modkilled me and if you claim anything else you are a liar. Your intimidation, "I don't care what you say I'm right" tactics may work for you in Mafia, but not outside the game. Prove this or GTFO. And if you just assert that I'm a liar again I'm going to treat you with the ignore that your argument deserves. EDIT: It is possible that I would have privately warned you that your behaviour was unacceptable for somewhat less than I would warn Gumshoe or others, for the reason that I have less confidence that you would regain your equilbrium and begin to post acceptably again without a private reminder. For as long as nobody has posted nothing which I should modkill, my priority is to try to make sure that nobody does. However, what I will modkill, or request banlist consequences for is entirely independent of the player in question. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On March 08 2014 17:15 Coagulation wrote: rayn has a point "fuck you man" is clearly worse then "policy lynch you man" Depends on how you look at it. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
They have a point though. If you're constructing gumshoe's behavior to be better than geript's, you are either selectively interpreting your rule, or your rule is very flawed. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On March 08 2014 17:31 Hapahauli wrote: They have a point though. If you're constructing gumshoe's behavior to be better than geript's, you are either selectively interpreting your rule, or your rule is very flawed. As far as I'm concerned, gumshoe's behaviour was more acceptable than geript's. Getting angry at someone and swearing at them is acceptable; getting angry at someone and saying that you will or would use powers outside the game to "get even" with them is not. It's that simple. If you're wondering why, it's in part because I don't feel it's fair to scum to make them threaten people like that (when they don't mean it and might feel bad about it) simply so they can look like the toxic townies. Partly because I believe it's more damaging to the entertainment value of the game than swearing at people. And partly because it just pisses me off. And with that, I think I'm done providing entertainment to the peanut gallery. Goodbye. Wish I could say it'd been a pleasure. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
Oh? you want to play mafia? too bad. We banned everyone because they are getting their feelings hurt by playing a game on the internet. Everyone needs to harden the fuck up. This is a confrontational game. If you are getting personally upset or offended, take a break. If you are rage quitting games take a break. We should not need to collectively hold peoples hands. I have both been personally offended in a game and rage quit a game. Both times I took a break. This should not be difficult. Edit: The banlist should be for particularly egregious behaviour or repeat/problem offenders. This kind of crap infesting the banlist thread does not help with the goal of the ban list, which is enabling good games of mafia. The ban list is NOT intended as a punitive measure. Further, if hosts are ruining games of mafia in order to enforce THEIR Ideals on how the game should/ should not be played that is at direct odds with the purpose of the ban list which is to LIMIT the ruinings of games due to behaviour. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
And no, this isn't a ragequit because people disagree with me. This place is just no longer worth my time. This was probably coming after III Titanic anyway, but I decided not to wait. Apologies to Sentinel. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
The thing is in your rules you state "keep the game fun for everyone". Considering how strictly you follow your rules gumshoe's behavior is a rule-broker and in my opinion there is no question about it. Now i know Balla warned people in game for inappropriate behavior. However you modkilled geript instantly. This, in my opinion shows that you are treating people differently based on not your rules but based on who they are. If you have warned geript and he continued with his behavior, and then you modkilled him, then i retract from my statement and apologize. Otherwise my point stands. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On March 08 2014 17:44 Aquanim wrote: What, me? I'm not upset or offended. I've just realised that running and playing games for and with the people on this forum is a waste of my time, it sucks up a lot of my time and I haven't enjoyed being here since I left newbies. I kept hoping that the next game would be "the one" where the game became enjoyable again, but I've realised it's just not coming. Then take a break. Basically I get that feeling too and stop playing for a while. If you want to stay 'connected' to the community play some other games with people. Hit up the community thread. People here play: League, DOTA, Hearthstone, Voice mafia, Broodwar, D3 etc | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
I just think people were treated differently based on for what i said or something i don't understand and i don't like it. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
On March 08 2014 17:42 DarthPunk wrote: Just ban everyone so that people won't be mean to each other. Oh? you want to play mafia? too bad. We banned everyone because they are getting their feelings hurt by playing a game on the internet. Everyone needs to harden the fuck up. This is a confrontational game. If you are getting personally upset or offended, take a break. If you are rage quitting games take a break. We should not need to collectively hold peoples hands. I have both been personally offended in a game and rage quit a game. Both times I took a break. This should not be difficult. Edit: The banlist should be for particularly egregious behaviour or repeat/problem offenders. This kind of crap infesting the banlist thread does not help with the goal of the ban list, which is enabling good games of mafia. The ban list is NOT intended as a punitive measure. Further, if hosts are ruining games of mafia in order to enforce THEIR Ideals on how the game should/ should not be played that is at direct odds with the purpose of the ban list which is to LIMIT the ruinings of games due to behaviour. I disagree with this post, but obviously enough people are fine with the state of the forum that my opinion wouldn't be that influential anyway. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Someone was slamming me for not paying attention, calling me bad etc etc. I accepted it for what it was, cos yes, i was distracted at the time; but I still thought he was a total c*nt. Anyways, post-game the guy apologised to me and admitted his behaviour was out of line. Made me do a total 180 on him as a person. It takes guts to do that in real life, let alone to someone you have just met. I dont think either of Aquanim/Geript are perfect in this situation, but I sincerely hope that they can both admit to each other that wrongs were made and move beyond this. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
That account was created on 2012-11-14 20:06:06 and had 1723 posts. Reason: Requested. Well that escalated quickly | ||
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