EPTTL Mafia Ban List 2.0 - Page 129
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Message GMarshal if you request a ban please ^_^ Also when the game you're sitting out is over! ~GMarshal | ||
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Onegu
United States9699 Posts
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
1 sicklucker has completed the first of this three game ban. 2 Alakaslam has completed his one-game ban. 3 GlowingBear - one game ban for alignment indicative information in his farewell post. Details in spoilers. + Show Spoiler [Ban Details - GlowingBear] + Events 1 GlowingBear is controversially lynched (2300 BST) whilst he's afk, apparently at university IRL. He flips detective. 2 About 2 hours post-lynch (0100 BST), GB posts in observer QT (comment 75) freaking out as to why town lynched him. 3 Almost three hours after he posts in Observer QT, and 5 hours after lynch (0400 BST), he posts the following post that is in contention here. On June 25 2015 11:53 GlowingBear wrote: townies that mislynched me, know that I will send PM's to you each day, for 365 days after endgame, reminding you how bad you are. Mark my words. The North remembers. 4 Fecalfeast (my cohost) tells him shortly after why his comment is quite problematic. I was asleep at the time this all happened, but Fecalfeast relayed this to me. That said my case for a ban is as follows: 1 There was alignment indicative information in his farewell post. Farewell posts should not contain such information. The comment alludes to his reads on the people who voted him down, and whether accurate or not, will affect how people think. 2 He was detective, a role that gathered more perfect information than most townies have, thus his flip and what he said was much more likely to influence how people thought. 3 GlowingBear is a veteran. I would have been inclined to let a newbie slide in a newbie game, but as a veteran, he should have known better. 4 Had GB been present and posted that information in a close call vote after deadline and before the flip and NOT been the lynch, his post per my rules (under Time Cycle) would have resulted in a modkill. 5 He posted in Observer QT well before he posted farewell in the thread. We felt this was unacceptable, especially given #1. I researched the Ban List 2.0 and looked into how others have looked at similar situations in the past and felt a ban was appropriate. That said, I feel this is firm enough, but fair. 4 LightningStrike - general warning (no ban) for behaviour/attempt at replacing out. Details in spoiler. + Show Spoiler + All events happened Night 1. - Facing pressure from 3 players, LS announces in frustration publically in the thread he wants to replace out. Though he did cite a real life reason to the moderators, it was not the original reason cited. - The comments to ritoky were following inquiries to both Fecalfeast and myself as to whether ritoky and Breshke could play against their win conditions. (Obviously neither of us could and did answer that question as we'd modconfirm those players.) - Despite this, he asks ritoky whether he is playing against his win condition. (Naturally ritoky asks him if he's fishing for modkills.) - LS responds that he's done and asks to replace out after spewing the thread. TLDR: I think a lot of this is more ignorance and frustration rather than disruption of the rules, but it was also disruptive enough to the rest of the game. I feel he's been around long enough he should also know better. This is why I would prefer a warning. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On July 04 2015 07:10 Half the Sky wrote: 3 GlowingBear - one game ban for alignment indicative information in his farewell post. Details in spoilers. Events 1 GlowingBear is controversially lynched (2300 BST) whilst he's afk, apparently at university IRL. He flips detective. 2 About 2 hours post-lynch (0100 BST), GB posts in observer QT (comment 75) freaking out as to why town lynched him. 3 Almost three hours after he posts in Observer QT, and 5 hours after lynch (0400 BST), he posts the following post that is in contention here. 4 Fecalfeast (my cohost) tells him shortly after why his comment is quite problematic. I was asleep at the time this all happened, but Fecalfeast relayed this to me. That said my case for a ban is as follows: 1 There was alignment indicative information in his farewell post. Farewell posts should not contain such information. The comment alludes to his reads on the people who voted him down, and whether accurate or not, will affect how people think. 2 He was detective, a role that gathered more perfect information than most townies have, thus his flip and what he said was much more likely to influence how people thought. 3 GlowingBear is a veteran. I would have been inclined to let a newbie slide in a newbie game, but as a veteran, he should have known better. 4 Had GB been present and posted that information in a close call vote after deadline and before the flip and NOT been the lynch, his post per my rules (under Time Cycle) would have resulted in a modkill. 5 He posted in Observer QT well before he posted farewell in the thread. We felt this was unacceptable, especially given #1. I researched the Ban List 2.0 and looked into how others have looked at similar situations in the past and felt a ban was appropriate. That said, I feel this is firm enough, but fair. So to be clear, GB was lynched, and your game allows for one polite goodbye post without game-changing information. He was an unclaimed cop, and he had innocent checks on the people who voted him, and he revealed this after death? Overall the post he wrote doesn't look very game changing. The only part of it that imo is bad is "townies that mislynched me" if he knew they were townies due to unclaimed cop checks. If he was lynched by a majority though, there literally HAD to be townies mislynching him because scum alone can't form a majority In any case, I think that unless GB was revealing his cop checks post-death there that's actually fine. Everything after "mislynched me" is, while impolite, not game-changing. It's just him being mad/bad | ||
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justanothertownie
16343 Posts
On July 04 2015 07:17 Blazinghand wrote: So to be clear, GB was lynched, and your game allows for one polite goodbye post without game-changing information. He was an unclaimed cop, and he had innocent checks on the people who voted him, and he revealed this after death? Overall the post he wrote doesn't look very game changing. The only part of it that imo is bad is "townies that mislynched me" if he knew they were townies due to unclaimed cop checks. If he was lynched by a majority though, there literally HAD to be townies mislynching him because scum alone can't form a majority In any case, I think that unless GB was revealing his cop checks post-death there that's actually fine. Everything after "mislynched me" is, while impolite, not game-changing. It's just him being mad/bad Agreed. You shouldn't post anything besides "gg" or something but I don't think anything in that post had any impact on the game. | ||
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LightningStrike
United States14277 Posts
On July 04 2015 07:10 Half the Sky wrote: [N] Mafia in the Himalayas ban list actions shall be as follows: 1 sicklucker has completed the first of this three game ban. 2 Alakaslam has completed his one-game ban. 3 GlowingBear - one game ban for alignment indicative information in his farewell post. Details in spoilers. + Show Spoiler [Ban Details - GlowingBear] + Events 1 GlowingBear is controversially lynched (2300 BST) whilst he's afk, apparently at university IRL. He flips detective. 2 About 2 hours post-lynch (0100 BST), GB posts in observer QT (comment 75) freaking out as to why town lynched him. 3 Almost three hours after he posts in Observer QT, and 5 hours after lynch (0400 BST), he posts the following post that is in contention here. On June 25 2015 11:53 GlowingBear wrote: townies that mislynched me, know that I will send PM's to you each day, for 365 days after endgame, reminding you how bad you are. Mark my words. The North remembers. 4 Fecalfeast (my cohost) tells him shortly after why his comment is quite problematic. I was asleep at the time this all happened, but Fecalfeast relayed this to me. That said my case for a ban is as follows: 1 There was alignment indicative information in his farewell post. Farewell posts should not contain such information. The comment alludes to his reads on the people who voted him down, and whether accurate or not, will affect how people think. 2 He was detective, a role that gathered more perfect information than most townies have, thus his flip and what he said was much more likely to influence how people thought. 3 GlowingBear is a veteran. I would have been inclined to let a newbie slide in a newbie game, but as a veteran, he should have known better. 4 Had GB been present and posted that information in a close call vote after deadline and before the flip and NOT been the lynch, his post per my rules (under Time Cycle) would have resulted in a modkill. 5 He posted in Observer QT well before he posted farewell in the thread. We felt this was unacceptable, especially given #1. I researched the Ban List 2.0 and looked into how others have looked at similar situations in the past and felt a ban was appropriate. That said, I feel this is firm enough, but fair. 4 LightningStrike - general warning (no ban) for behaviour/attempt at replacing out. Details in spoiler. + Show Spoiler + All events happened Night 1. - Facing pressure from 3 players, LS announces in frustration publically in the thread he wants to replace out. Though he did cite a real life reason to the moderators, it was not the original reason cited. - The comments to ritoky were following inquiries to both Fecalfeast and myself as to whether ritoky and Breshke could play against their win conditions. (Obviously neither of us could and did answer that question as we'd modconfirm those players.) - Despite this, he asks ritoky whether he is playing against his win condition. (Naturally ritoky asks him if he's fishing for modkills.) - LS responds that he's done and asks to replace out after spewing the thread. TLDR: I think a lot of this is more ignorance and frustration rather than disruption of the rules, but it was also disruptive enough to the rest of the game. I feel he's been around long enough he should also know better. This is why I would prefer a warning. You being to nice to me you should do a 2 game total ban a 1 game ban and I had 1 prior warning. | ||
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
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LightningStrike
United States14277 Posts
On July 04 2015 07:27 scott31337 wrote: Have you played three games clear in between the warning games? It should be removed then. I think I did idk how the warnings work here. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
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justanothertownie
16343 Posts
On July 04 2015 16:57 Blazinghand wrote: Hmm, yeah I could go either way on it. I mean, the basic problem is that no matter what, he isn't giving a "polite goodbye post" anyways so at least he's in violation of THAT rule. I feel like the fact people are allowed to make a gg post after death AT ALL is actually already hugely lenient-- I make such posts only rarely and only with just "gg gl" or something similar. GB's post definitely does not fall into that category. He was a flipped cop and it wasn't clear what his checks were so if people were reading into his post as game-changing then that is a problem for sure. It's also worth noting that I feel like in general posts like the one he made shouldn't be allowed after death. Posts like his already aren't allowed. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
Overall, I think 1 game at most especially because it doesn't seem malicious (ie trying to intentionally ruin the game). | ||
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justanothertownie
16343 Posts
On July 04 2015 17:36 geript wrote: I'm very mixed about it. But I think it should be a 1 game ban at most. It doesn't seem from what you guys have said that he flat out outed his checks. Yah, it's bm to post in thread after posting in obs qt but that's not really. HTS can you explain better exactly whose alignment he revealed (to be town) and how? Because what I'm seeing is ban/1-game worthy. I'm expecting that his filter (as detective) could easily have had those cop checks semi-revealed or figured out without those specific things. It might narrow down who his town checks are on; but as unclaimed, i'm not sure how much I buy that. Overall, I think 1 game at most especially because it doesn't seem malicious (ie trying to intentionally ruin the game). He did not reveal any alignment. If you want to ban him thenbecause people could have read something into the post but there wasn't actually anything in there. | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
NO BAN I guess LS has mitigating circumstances so i'd let that slide aswell. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Yeah, I was angry and drunk, if I remember correctly. Shouldn't have done that, even without altering the game... | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I could totally see just going for a warning for this, since it some of the people in the game thought it impacted things, and some didn't. That being said, ANY number of players thinking "hey, that dead player, the flipped cop, is posting in the thread and trying to tell me something" is bad. We as hosts should do our best to discourage situations like this. And tempting though it may be, it's also not tenable to say "we'll warn for it this time, but next time we'll ban for the same offense" cause that's not fair to the next guy who would be breaking the rules exactly as much as GB did. So we need to decide whether this TYPE of offense (breaking the "don't post if you're not alive and in the game rule", but in a minor way that only kinda hints at alignment-indicative info for living players) is Warn-worthy or Ban-worthy. I think it could be either. If it were entirely up to me I'd ban just to be on the safe side and make it 100% clear that this is not allowable (and no, being drunk is not an excuse). However, people have made good points on either side. I will say that it's on the fence and not open-and-shut. In any case, ideally I'd like for this to be resolved in the next 24 hours because GB is /in for my game right now and we're starting tomorrow. We have a replacement lined up but we'd like to know whether we're going with the replacement, or whether we're going with GB. Someone DID pm GM, right? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I realise I've not been around as long as some of you which is why I reviewed the Ban List to even determine how others looked at it. Between past posts I read from Helvetica, BH and a couple others my impression was that hosts take a stricter stance on this. Hence I felt the ban was the way to go here. I've PMed GMarshal BTW. | ||
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