|
Since there are only 4 Lords left, is lynching possible anymore? Or is it still the majority of these 4 Lords?
|
On August 18 2013 02:00 Clarity_nl wrote:
I dunno, vivax pushed yamato and he turned out to be scum. Did he push anyone else this game?
Long live bussing your teammates I guess...........
|
It's plurality voting for lynches, majority for lord election
|
I'm having trouble getting back into the game when we don't know how the hosts are gonna resolve this mocsta situation.
Let me say what I said to Clarity about Risen. I don't want to lynch him today.
re: risen: he was the second actual vote onto vivax, I believe, at a point when I was still strongly leading in votes. He could have kept his vote on Sharrant and hoped the vivax momentum would not build and I would still be the inertia candidate. I would have called him scum for that but imo he was not getting nearly as much heat as he deserved for his tunnel.
For him to actually switch his vote back onto me would have been more difficult, since he'd already unvoted me. Vivax was close to giving up at that point, although I think Risen's vote came before his lolclaim, so a bus is not completely out of the question.
I still think Risen's filter looks scummy as fuck, especially day 1 and the entire sharrant tunnel where he ignored sharrant's answers to his question. but this vote switch is a pretty big deal, so i'm willing to officially move my read on risen from "certain scum" to "null, don't want to lynch right now".
I'm not willing to give him a townread yet just for one vote, when I still really dislike his filter in general, but it's enough to move my read significantly. Unless I find a stronger scumread tonight, I think I will be pushing for a johnnywup lynch tomorrow.
I want to kill jwup today.
On August 18 2013 00:19 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 00:16 s0Lstice wrote:
well this is very interesting..
i have a strong urge to kill sharrant Do tell. And I'm saying it again, I'm pretty sure Johnny is town.
why. seriously.
if you have a green check on him, there's no reason not to say it now. although you can't have a green check on account of both of your alignment checks have been red and you say you alternate between alignment and hp checks.
anything short of that and i'm going to demand very detailed reasons for it.
|
On August 18 2013 01:56 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 01:53 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:43 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:20 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this?
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit. That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax. Hmm. I do agree that it isn't the likely scenario on Sharrant. I would really feel a lot better though if I had any sort of notion that he cared about the game outside of his checks. On Risen, I think he was super unsure. It's just like the s&b discussion earlier. His vote and his interests are all over the place, and he will be pushing multiple things in a short period of time. Really difficult to say as we would typically that this guy is scum for not pushing his #1 scum read, because what does #1 scum read really mean for Risen if it lasts all of 5 minutes? If we really assume that Risen changes his reads every 5 minutes, then it'll be impossible to tell if he's scum. Any time he has a read contradiction, someone can say "he does that as town too". It just invalidates all his reads. Scum Risen could literally say any read he wanted to for no reason and he would get away with it.He had a unreasoned scumread on Vivax that he never pushed. That is a clear association that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Add to that everything else he's done that doesn't make sense from anyone thinking about the game. On August 18 2013 01:30 s0Lstice wrote:
what is he saying?
also...Chrom have you thought some more about the Risen v Xatalos stuff I was telling you about earlier? I did, and I don't think it's alignment indicative. I can't see the PMs in question, so I don't know exactly what made you think that Risen forgot about the Vivax lynch, but I think it could very easily be Risen just assuming that Vivax was done for, instead of actually forgetting. He just really wants to push Xat, so he sends out the PMs, assuming that everyone would understand he was talking about tomorrow (given that Vivax is already dead). And then he sends out the second round just to make sure everyone knew. yup pretty much. he's really hard to read because of how erratic he is. So to make this public knowledge, Risen PMed me after Vivax made his claim thing saying he wanted to lynch Xatalos. This is shortly after posting in the thread something along the lines of Xatalos=bad. He then immediately sent a PM after saying 'oh oops nevermind we gotta lynch Vivax today.' Scum Risen knows Vivax is on his team, and hence would be pretty concerned with what side of this issue he ends up on. Why would he rock the boat like this as scum and muddy the waters after already being on the correct side of the Vivax wagon? How does this action improve his situation? It's crazy as town too, but the flakiness and carelessness of the action makes the town side a lot more likely. That's pretty wifom. He could not have checked his qt, vivax could not have discussed the claim in his qt etc.
yea actually, I remember him being in thread but he didn't say a word about the claim before he started the xatalos thing
The PMs came 5 minutes apart for what it's worth.
HMMM
|
On August 18 2013 02:03 strongandbig wrote:I'm having trouble getting back into the game when we don't know how the hosts are gonna resolve this mocsta situation. Let me say what I said to Clarity about Risen. I don't want to lynch him today. Show nested quote +
re: risen: he was the second actual vote onto vivax, I believe, at a point when I was still strongly leading in votes. He could have kept his vote on Sharrant and hoped the vivax momentum would not build and I would still be the inertia candidate. I would have called him scum for that but imo he was not getting nearly as much heat as he deserved for his tunnel.
For him to actually switch his vote back onto me would have been more difficult, since he'd already unvoted me. Vivax was close to giving up at that point, although I think Risen's vote came before his lolclaim, so a bus is not completely out of the question.
I still think Risen's filter looks scummy as fuck, especially day 1 and the entire sharrant tunnel where he ignored sharrant's answers to his question. but this vote switch is a pretty big deal, so i'm willing to officially move my read on risen from "certain scum" to "null, don't want to lynch right now".
I'm not willing to give him a townread yet just for one vote, when I still really dislike his filter in general, but it's enough to move my read significantly. Unless I find a stronger scumread tonight, I think I will be pushing for a johnnywup lynch tomorrow.
I want to kill jwup today. Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 00:19 Sharrant wrote:On August 18 2013 00:16 s0Lstice wrote:
well this is very interesting..
i have a strong urge to kill sharrant Do tell. And I'm saying it again, I'm pretty sure Johnny is town. why. seriously. if you have a green check on him, there's no reason not to say it now. although you can't have a green check on account of both of your alignment checks have been red and you say you alternate between alignment and hp checks. anything short of that and i'm going to demand very detailed reasons for it.
Yeah, I'm anxious to get this situation resolved ASAP as well.
johnnywup is on low HP and will be shot. Who else would you want to lynch?
|
On August 18 2013 01:53 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 01:43 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:20 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this?
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit. That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax. Hmm. I do agree that it isn't the likely scenario on Sharrant. I would really feel a lot better though if I had any sort of notion that he cared about the game outside of his checks. On Risen, I think he was super unsure. It's just like the s&b discussion earlier. His vote and his interests are all over the place, and he will be pushing multiple things in a short period of time. Really difficult to say as we would typically that this guy is scum for not pushing his #1 scum read, because what does #1 scum read really mean for Risen if it lasts all of 5 minutes? If we really assume that Risen changes his reads every 5 minutes, then it'll be impossible to tell if he's scum. Any time he has a read contradiction, someone can say "he does that as town too". It just invalidates all his reads. Scum Risen could literally say any read he wanted to for no reason and he would get away with it.He had a unreasoned scumread on Vivax that he never pushed. That is a clear association that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Add to that everything else he's done that doesn't make sense from anyone thinking about the game. On August 18 2013 01:30 s0Lstice wrote:
what is he saying?
also...Chrom have you thought some more about the Risen v Xatalos stuff I was telling you about earlier? I did, and I don't think it's alignment indicative. I can't see the PMs in question, so I don't know exactly what made you think that Risen forgot about the Vivax lynch, but I think it could very easily be Risen just assuming that Vivax was done for, instead of actually forgetting. He just really wants to push Xat, so he sends out the PMs, assuming that everyone would understand he was talking about tomorrow (given that Vivax is already dead). And then he sends out the second round just to make sure everyone knew. yup pretty much. he's really hard to read because of how erratic he is. So to make this public knowledge, Risen PMed me after Vivax made his claim thing saying he wanted to lynch Xatalos. This is shortly after posting in the thread something along the lines of Xatalos=bad. He then immediately sent a PM after saying 'oh oops nevermind we gotta lynch Vivax today.' Scum Risen knows Vivax is on his team, and hence would be pretty concerned with what side of this issue he ends up on. Why would he rock the boat like this as scum and muddy the waters after already being on the correct side of the Vivax wagon? How does this action improve his situation? It's crazy as town too, but the flakiness and carelessness of the action makes the town side a lot more likely.
Hm, that's more specific than I thought it was. There's still no reason to do it either way, so it could come from both alignments. It's very possible for scum Risen to "forget" that the lynch is still today as opposed to having already happened yesterday.
|
EBWOP: to make the previous a lil more clear..I thought he had been in thread and acknowledged the claim in some form. not true
|
also a thought I just had...it would not be weird at all for scum to have some kind of HP check ability. in fact it makes a lot of sense
|
On August 18 2013 02:04 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 01:56 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 18 2013 01:53 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:43 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:20 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this?
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit. That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax. Hmm. I do agree that it isn't the likely scenario on Sharrant. I would really feel a lot better though if I had any sort of notion that he cared about the game outside of his checks. On Risen, I think he was super unsure. It's just like the s&b discussion earlier. His vote and his interests are all over the place, and he will be pushing multiple things in a short period of time. Really difficult to say as we would typically that this guy is scum for not pushing his #1 scum read, because what does #1 scum read really mean for Risen if it lasts all of 5 minutes? If we really assume that Risen changes his reads every 5 minutes, then it'll be impossible to tell if he's scum. Any time he has a read contradiction, someone can say "he does that as town too". It just invalidates all his reads. Scum Risen could literally say any read he wanted to for no reason and he would get away with it.He had a unreasoned scumread on Vivax that he never pushed. That is a clear association that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Add to that everything else he's done that doesn't make sense from anyone thinking about the game. On August 18 2013 01:30 s0Lstice wrote:
what is he saying?
also...Chrom have you thought some more about the Risen v Xatalos stuff I was telling you about earlier? I did, and I don't think it's alignment indicative. I can't see the PMs in question, so I don't know exactly what made you think that Risen forgot about the Vivax lynch, but I think it could very easily be Risen just assuming that Vivax was done for, instead of actually forgetting. He just really wants to push Xat, so he sends out the PMs, assuming that everyone would understand he was talking about tomorrow (given that Vivax is already dead). And then he sends out the second round just to make sure everyone knew. yup pretty much. he's really hard to read because of how erratic he is. So to make this public knowledge, Risen PMed me after Vivax made his claim thing saying he wanted to lynch Xatalos. This is shortly after posting in the thread something along the lines of Xatalos=bad. He then immediately sent a PM after saying 'oh oops nevermind we gotta lynch Vivax today.' Scum Risen knows Vivax is on his team, and hence would be pretty concerned with what side of this issue he ends up on. Why would he rock the boat like this as scum and muddy the waters after already being on the correct side of the Vivax wagon? How does this action improve his situation? It's crazy as town too, but the flakiness and carelessness of the action makes the town side a lot more likely. That's pretty wifom. He could not have checked his qt, vivax could not have discussed the claim in his qt etc. yea actually, I remember him being in thread but he didn't say a word about the claim before he started the xatalos thing The PMs came 5 minutes apart for what it's worth. HMMM
You mean like he PM'd you, checked the ScumQT and PM'd again with the opposite stance?
|
On August 18 2013 02:08 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 02:04 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:56 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 18 2013 01:53 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:43 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:20 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this?
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit. That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax. Hmm. I do agree that it isn't the likely scenario on Sharrant. I would really feel a lot better though if I had any sort of notion that he cared about the game outside of his checks. On Risen, I think he was super unsure. It's just like the s&b discussion earlier. His vote and his interests are all over the place, and he will be pushing multiple things in a short period of time. Really difficult to say as we would typically that this guy is scum for not pushing his #1 scum read, because what does #1 scum read really mean for Risen if it lasts all of 5 minutes? If we really assume that Risen changes his reads every 5 minutes, then it'll be impossible to tell if he's scum. Any time he has a read contradiction, someone can say "he does that as town too". It just invalidates all his reads. Scum Risen could literally say any read he wanted to for no reason and he would get away with it.He had a unreasoned scumread on Vivax that he never pushed. That is a clear association that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Add to that everything else he's done that doesn't make sense from anyone thinking about the game. On August 18 2013 01:30 s0Lstice wrote:
what is he saying?
also...Chrom have you thought some more about the Risen v Xatalos stuff I was telling you about earlier? I did, and I don't think it's alignment indicative. I can't see the PMs in question, so I don't know exactly what made you think that Risen forgot about the Vivax lynch, but I think it could very easily be Risen just assuming that Vivax was done for, instead of actually forgetting. He just really wants to push Xat, so he sends out the PMs, assuming that everyone would understand he was talking about tomorrow (given that Vivax is already dead). And then he sends out the second round just to make sure everyone knew. yup pretty much. he's really hard to read because of how erratic he is. So to make this public knowledge, Risen PMed me after Vivax made his claim thing saying he wanted to lynch Xatalos. This is shortly after posting in the thread something along the lines of Xatalos=bad. He then immediately sent a PM after saying 'oh oops nevermind we gotta lynch Vivax today.' Scum Risen knows Vivax is on his team, and hence would be pretty concerned with what side of this issue he ends up on. Why would he rock the boat like this as scum and muddy the waters after already being on the correct side of the Vivax wagon? How does this action improve his situation? It's crazy as town too, but the flakiness and carelessness of the action makes the town side a lot more likely. That's pretty wifom. He could not have checked his qt, vivax could not have discussed the claim in his qt etc. yea actually, I remember him being in thread but he didn't say a word about the claim before he started the xatalos thing The PMs came 5 minutes apart for what it's worth. HMMM You mean like he PM'd you, checked the ScumQT and PM'd again with the opposite stance?
Yes, him not publicly acknowledging the claim casts doubt on the idea that he was aware of it when he sent out the PMs on you, and therefore opens up the possibility of a scenario like you describe.
Did anybody get a PM from Risen where he acknowledges Vivax' claim prior to the Xatalos crusade?
|
On August 18 2013 02:08 s0Lstice wrote:
also a thought I just had...it would not be weird at all for scum to have some kind of HP check ability. in fact it makes a lot of sense
It's possible... I wonder why we never thought of that during the "mole" accusations.
|
because gumshoe woulda been a weird target to check for scum.
|
On August 18 2013 02:13 Clarity_nl wrote:
because gumshoe woulda been a weird target to check for scum.
I guess.... Although House Lannister also had iamperfection and me... But we already know the truth of that so no need to WIFOM further 
|
So Mocsta is almost certainly town. I refuse to believe Sharrant is scum, which makes him framed or miller. If Sharrant is scum, he deserves to win the best mafia play of the century award. There is no way he did this as scum.
With Mocsta town, it means I was also wrong about how scum planned today out. They clearly didn't give a shit about Sharrant living, so they either believed he is a one-shot cop, which even I didn't believe and I am almost certain he's town, or they tried to kill him and failed, OR their big play is something other than I thought.
Lets analyse the situations:
1. I don't think any scum would just casually risk leaving a claimed cop alive. They know he's town, they know he has a vested interest in staying both alive and unblocked, so his ONLY option is to claim 1-shot cop regardless of his actual role. Then he claimed the HP check thingy, so they KNEW he had lied. Why on earth suddenly believe him on the third night. It makes no sense at all. Discarded, because nobody is that stupid.
2. They tried to kill him and failed. It might show up in his health, and that'd make a pretty good cop check: if his health is under 7, he is almost guaranteed to be town. Because no scum shoots themselves in the face.
3. The big play doesn't involve Mocsta, but it involves someone else. Either it succeeded, in which case scum would already have claimed, used their 3 votes and fucked us up the ass, or it failed. The most obvious place of failure is House Stark, if they tried to kill Clarity and failed. A HP check on House Stark might give information about whether this was a Big Play.
My house still has its HP check (unless Sharrant used it without telling anyone, in which case I'll know soon enough and we lynch him, then nominate him for both the best and the worst mafia play of the century). I am gonna think about which one to use it on. If any other house still has a HP check, we can just do both.
Also, given that this game IS going to succumb to mod-meta-reading unless it is ended the moment Mocsta is modkilled, I think SnB not being banned for breaking the rules multiple times is more likely if he's scum. Scum lost 2 members in 2 consecutive lynches, and a modkill on top of that is something I, as a host, would really try my best to avoid. I think I would be less lenient on townies, after numerous warnings.
|
yea I'm back to wanting to lynch Sharrant. let's see what kind of award he deserves.
|
I dunno how bussing a scum teammate for town cred and then faking a redcheck would be considered "award winning scumplay"
Acro is seriously overthinking this.
|
stark still has its hp check although obviousy can't use it today, and I expect to die along with my sealbuddy tomorrow.
|
|
|
On August 18 2013 02:34 Clarity_nl wrote:
I dunno how bussing a scum teammate for town cred and then faking a redcheck would be considered "award winning scumplay"
Acro is seriously overthinking this.
that +lurking hardcore
like srsly
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
