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On June 13 2013 08:01 GravityMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:00 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. your dodging of it for so long doesn't really make me feel better about it. What, my dodging of the answering your question? I didn't dodge I forgot you asked. You want to hear it exactly? I didn't want to go into detail because it's not really related to the game at all and may cause discussion outside of what we need to be talking about (ie give more useless thread-shitting-up fodder to BH). Do you still want to hear it?
yea sure why not
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On June 13 2013 08:00 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:On June 11 2013 06:07 GravityMan wrote:
Yes, that would be the post, thank you.
While you are at it, Blazinghand, are you the type to back down when admonished?
Does this Hapahaulli play the role of 'thread police' often? Do you think that this Hapahauli is personally insulted by your play or shamed by it? He certainly does not seem to me ceasing communication. Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. your dodging of it for so long doesn't really make me feel better about it.
Vayne What "it" are you referring to that was dodged?
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On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:On June 11 2013 06:07 GravityMan wrote:
Yes, that would be the post, thank you.
While you are at it, Blazinghand, are you the type to back down when admonished?
Does this Hapahaulli play the role of 'thread police' often? Do you think that this Hapahauli is personally insulted by your play or shamed by it? He certainly does not seem to me ceasing communication. Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM.
Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it.
Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games.
I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one.
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On June 13 2013 08:09 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:00 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. your dodging of it for so long doesn't really make me feel better about it. Vayne What "it" are you referring to that was dodged?
Do uyu mean the aside to cora or my questions?
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On June 13 2013 08:08 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:01 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:00 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:
[quote]
As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset.
If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. your dodging of it for so long doesn't really make me feel better about it. What, my dodging of the answering your question? I didn't dodge I forgot you asked. You want to hear it exactly? I didn't want to go into detail because it's not really related to the game at all and may cause discussion outside of what we need to be talking about (ie give more useless thread-shitting-up fodder to BH). Do you still want to hear it? yea sure why not
Fine but only because you're already voting BH. And if he comes back and goes on an ego trip because of it I'm going to be pissed.
Corazon PMed me randomly and said he had a dream that BH figured out that I was GM in the first few days of the game. I said I doubt anyone is going to figure me out (and no one would have, had I not fucked up). Then a couple days ago I had a dream that BH figured me out (fucking weird).
And then I fucked up and he found out. Hence 'our dreams came true.'
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On June 13 2013 08:10 GravityMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM. Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it. Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games. I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one.
Ok. I will need to reread your filter in context with that in mind. it was not one of the possible intentions that originally sprang to my mind.
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Alright I guess thats believable enough. If you fed me some bullshit I was going to shoot you on the spot, seemed like you were referencing something from a scum QT or something
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On June 13 2013 08:13 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:10 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:
[quote]
As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset.
If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM. Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it. Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games. I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one. Ok. I will need to reread your filter in context with that in mind. it was not one of the possible intentions that originally sprang to my mind.
Axle can you answer my question?
You've been doing too much analysis and questioning and not offering enough in terms of reads and stances taken.
Who is scum and why?
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On June 13 2013 08:13 VayneAuthority wrote:
Alright I guess thats believable enough. If you fed me some bullshit I was going to shoot you on the spot, seemed like you were referencing something from a scum QT or something
lol seriously?
Why would I reference a scum QT to the fucking host in a game? Like...it couldn't even be called a slip or anything...it was me blatantly talking to Corazon.
Come on, VA.
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wat? Prome talked to us all the time in Les Mis. Trying to make it seem like something stupid isn't helping you. It could have easily been a slip up.
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On June 13 2013 08:16 GravityMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:13 VayneAuthority wrote:
Alright I guess thats believable enough. If you fed me some bullshit I was going to shoot you on the spot, seemed like you were referencing something from a scum QT or something lol seriously? Why would I reference a scum QT to the fucking host in a game? Like...it couldn't even be called a slip or anything...it was me blatantly talking to Corazon. Come on, VA.
at least someone understands me
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On June 13 2013 07:59 GravityMan wrote:
Axle, who do YOU think is scum?
We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions.
There is the obvious list, of people who have not contributed much.
There is the obvious list of turning Hapas list upside down and saying that.
One thing i dont want to do is get all in a low post count townies face, and shut them down.
So I wont be doing that.
The least clear intention I have is you. I see what "looks" like a tendency to Lynch BH for being BH.
I see posts that could well inflame him and make his ego come to the fore as town or scum.
This could have been their intention, or not.
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On June 13 2013 08:23 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 07:59 GravityMan wrote:
Axle, who do YOU think is scum?
We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions. There is the obvious list, of people who have not contributed much. There is the obvious list of turning Hapas list upside down and saying that. One thing i dont want to do is get all in a low post count townies face, and shut them down. So I wont be doing that. The least clear intention I have is you. I see what "looks" like a tendency to Lynch BH for being BH. I see posts that could well inflame him and make his ego come to the fore as town or scum. This could have been their intention, or not.
Obvious lists? Do you trust those lists entirely?
Why can't you just come out and call me scum?
Am I the only scum in this game?
Come on Axle. Something concrete please.
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On June 13 2013 08:18 VayneAuthority wrote:
wat? Prome talked to us all the time in Les Mis. Trying to make it seem like something stupid isn't helping you. It could have easily been a slip up.
Isn't 'helping' me? Who else thought this was suspicious? I wasn't worried, but you trying to make it sound like it's something I should be worried about is kinda stupid.
Anyway, enough of this.
VA who else is scum? Last I figured Sylencia/Stutters or both but it's been a while since I looked.
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I've called pretty much everyone scum at one point this game, I don't have any good reads. Either they are lurking or we are just spamming, not much to go off of. Obvious night kill, unsuspicious day kill. There's nowhere to go from here really.
Stutters' aggressiveness in this thread is disconcerting I suppose, I don't even know who sylencia is he posts so little.
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On June 13 2013 08:28 GravityMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:23 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:59 GravityMan wrote:
Axle, who do YOU think is scum?
We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions. There is the obvious list, of people who have not contributed much. There is the obvious list of turning Hapas list upside down and saying that. One thing i dont want to do is get all in a low post count townies face, and shut them down. So I wont be doing that. The least clear intention I have is you. I see what "looks" like a tendency to Lynch BH for being BH. I see posts that could well inflame him and make his ego come to the fore as town or scum. This could have been their intention, or not. Obvious lists? Do you trust those lists entirely? Why can't you just come out and call me scum? Am I the only scum in this game? Come on Axle. Something concrete please.
No I don't trust those list entirely, which is why early on D1 I asked hapa about him giving out so many town reads and saying EZ.
Hapa is town, he flipped town, but i still don't trust his list as he can be wrong.
The language used was euphamism to do as stated and avoid getting in low post counters face.
Grav man: Why can't you just come out and call me scum?
I can. Thats the easy bit, trying to be right is harder.
This time i dont understand you: "Come on Axle. Something concrete please."
do you want more concrete reasoning and analysis for why i think your scum
GM: "We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions."
or do you want me to overexaggerate the degree of certainty that i have that your motivations
in posting inflammatory things was so that BHs ego would get him to piss off enough people that
you could mislynch him?
The problem is there are towny reasons to push people as well. I need to work out if what you
did was for those reasons.
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On June 13 2013 08:39 VayneAuthority wrote:
I've called pretty much everyone scum at one point this game, I don't have any good reads. Either they are lurking or we are just spamming, not much to go off of. Obvious night kill, unsuspicious day kill. There's nowhere to go from here really.
Stutters' aggressiveness in this thread is disconcerting I suppose, I don't even know who sylencia is he posts so little.
Oh yeah since I'm not a smurf anymore I can mention:
Apparently Sylencia really IS lynchbait as he says, which is what makes me wary of him as a scumread.
Again all of this relies on meta but I just know he's telling the the truth about this. Doesn't preclude him from being scum, and he does tend to lurk quite a bit as either alignment..
When I get the chance in a few hours I'm gonna dive into Syl/Stutters. I remember thinking Stutters has a good chance of flipping red.
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On June 13 2013 08:42 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:28 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:23 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:59 GravityMan wrote:
Axle, who do YOU think is scum?
We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions. There is the obvious list, of people who have not contributed much. There is the obvious list of turning Hapas list upside down and saying that. One thing i dont want to do is get all in a low post count townies face, and shut them down. So I wont be doing that. The least clear intention I have is you. I see what "looks" like a tendency to Lynch BH for being BH. I see posts that could well inflame him and make his ego come to the fore as town or scum. This could have been their intention, or not. Obvious lists? Do you trust those lists entirely? Why can't you just come out and call me scum? Am I the only scum in this game? Come on Axle. Something concrete please. No I don't trust those list entirely, which is why early on D1 I asked hapa about him giving out so many town reads and saying EZ. Hapa is town, he flipped town, but i still don't trust his list as he can be wrong. The language used was euphamism to do as stated and avoid getting in low post counters face. Grav man: Why can't you just come out and call me scum? I can. Thats the easy bit, trying to be right is harder. This time i dont understand you: "Come on Axle. Something concrete please." do you want more concrete reasoning and analysis for why i think your scum GM: "We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions." or do you want me to overexaggerate the degree of certainty that i have that your motivations in posting inflammatory things was so that BHs ego would get him to piss off enough people that you could mislynch him? The problem is there are towny reasons to push people as well. I need to work out if what you did was for those reasons.
For the record, I wasn't trying to be inflammatory necessarily with those questions, I was trying just to see what I could get BH to say and talk about regarding that topic.
You say that I'm trying to get BH mislynched though, what makes you sure he's town?
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On June 13 2013 08:39 VayneAuthority wrote:
I've called pretty much everyone scum at one point this game, I don't have any good reads. Either they are lurking or we are just spamming, not much to go off of. Obvious night kill, unsuspicious day kill. There's nowhere to go from here really.
Stutters' aggressiveness in this thread is disconcerting I suppose, I don't even know who sylencia is he posts so little.
FYI: As I have experience with Syl.
Sylencia is a problem player. See the recent "noir". We both played in it. I got town read off basically nothing, knew Syl from previous games and reading and knew Sylencia was often quiet as town or scum. We mislynched Syl in noir, I don't want to lose that way, compare Syl to noir, Syl also has a scum game (although from memory its newb). If you try and fit Syl into general purpose "Is this what scum do"(red) "is this what town do"(green) you will frequently mislynch Syl.
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Catching up with the thread now. The first thing I'd like to address is this Syl post:
On June 12 2013 22:35 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 16:47 goodkarma wrote:On June 12 2013 16:15 Sylencia wrote:
@GK: Why are you suggesting to waste a dayvig shot on me when the only reason you have is that I've been lurkier than others? You literally say before your 'analysis' on me that you think BH is scum and yet somehow I'm a more decent target for shooting? Ok.. I said you were flying under the radar, and that when you are here you seem to be content to agree with a stance here and there and not really add anything. It's not about your "lurkiness," but what you aren't doing when you are here. I'm assuming from what Vayne has said he plans to use his vig shot today. Therefore, we need to determine two scum candidates for this cycle. None of this really is that difficult to understand. While you're here, would you mind providing an opinion on anything? Or more specifically, perhaps elaborate on your top scumread? If Vayne wants to use it as a shot, why aren't we lynching a top suspect first, and shooting during the night? Unless there's some sort of claim that can only be checked by death, I don't see a reason why it should be rushed so. (I'm not reading the power wrong, right?) My top read at the time you posted was ShiaoPi, as I said I agreed with a lot of the points made by Stutters. I made that clear end of last night. I haven't fully digested ShiaoPi's response yet, but if I'm wrong on that account, my previous statement feels good: Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 01:24 Sylencia wrote:
@Oats: If GK doesn't have anything in the next 24 hours, I'd be willing to put money on a lurker scum team - something like him + stutters (maybe +1 if there's a third). The only one that sticks out is Blazinghand for causing chaos for no reason but idk if that's his playstyle - please fill me in there. Reasoning is everything has run too smoothly and there haven't felt like there have been any sort of misdirections so far. We had a blue claim on day 1, so having some sort of mayor takeover would be a pretty good idea in Day 1 for scum to take, as they can reliably target Vayne with no consequence. If he dies, he dies. If he doesn't, everyone just says someone protected him, and no one suspects the mayor. None of this happened, so unless Hapa is scum, everyone active seems town. Any problem with my reasoning? For catching up, only having an analysis of 4 players (2 of which seem like afterthoughts), and a weak scumread based a lot on meta is pretty bad. I've heard from BH enough that you have slow starts, but idk define slow start, how long is it going to take to get the ball rolling, and out of all the players how is it that you've got thoughts on 2 lurky players over someone with a lot more points to consider such as Grav/WoS and Oats? About GravityMan - I am also missing what is obvious about him that makes him scum according to BH, but the only point i"ll take from it is that he is the only one who disrupted Hapa's mayoral campaign with a sort of smear campaign against him. You can make reasons for why he did it if he's scum (potentially take power, and make hapa a suspect), but since that failed, would scum have chosen Hapa as the target of the NK over Vayne to clearly show that? Food for thought, seeing as that was the only real 'major' event that happened regarding mayoral campaigns.
First of all, the entire point of mentioning a good vigishot for Vayne is we should be treating this cycle like a doublelynch, as Hapa originally suggested. Even if Vayne opts to wait until the night to shoot, by discussing this now we have that much more information to go on in later cycles. For that reason, everyone should be doing this.
So you can't be bothered to review the latest posting of your top scumread, and you fall back on proposing a lurker scumteam if your top read convinces you he's town??? Explain to me how that isn't scum-motivated behavior?
Further, I provided a read on Grav in the post you're referencing, so it's clear you aren't reading the thread very closely. This is the kind of disinterest I'd expect from scum. I still believe you'd be a good vigi shot.
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EPT
