|
Let's play a game... |
On May 30 2013 23:05 Baker1986 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 23:01 TomB4 wrote:
can someone explain to me their reasoning for voting DrTennant? Having read over his posts and the posts of others several times now, I still don't understand why he's receiving votes. Someone explain it to me like I'm brain-dead or a five year old-exactly why he is the best lynch for today.
I'd much rather get PTroughton to say something worthwhile. I expect players in this game to avoid bullshitting and roleplaying given that it's a smurf game and it's in our best interest to get things organised rapidly. Trolling around is in direct opposition to that goal, particularly as we are at a huge disadvantage to a normal game in which we can use meta-analysis to determine whether behaviour of a certain type is to be expected.
##vote PTroughton2 While I agree with you, trolling and roleplaying is something just as likely to be done by a townie as by scum. If you think a bit you will realize that this idea of pressuring him into playing is not going to fly right now, because town is actually considering scum-lynches based on objectively scummy reason. IE: we're discussing killing people, not pressuring them. The guy is a boring unfunny troll, that doesn't make him scum. It's null. Move on to people actually worth analysing please.
It's not null when he's done nothing else.
Is he Chezinu? Is he Foolishness? Is he Palmar? We don't know. Identity matters when someone does something like this.
Context matters, simply dismissing someone because of trolling is a great way to find yourself saying in lategame "if this guy is scum he deserves to win" and then losing to him. Everyone is worth analysing, and your dismissive attitude is disturbing in the sense that you don't seem to understand this. (not to mention you have simply ignored my question about DrT, or do not care enough to explain that position of yours I suppose?)
|
and for the record, I'm not suggesting we figure out who he is, I'm saying that because we don't know the identities of players in this game we absolutely cannot tolerate such behaviour.
Finding scum is that much harder when you have a player who is purposely an impedance to town efforts.
|
Tom, how is it possible that you don't understand what has happened around DrT or what has been said about him. That doesn't look like a sincere statement, it rather looks like you're playing the dumb card to avoid that issue.
Given your posts so far I don't see you fitting into the category of someone who has trouble reading and understanding, I dislike that your whole non-contribution to finding a proper lynch is to vote for a roleplayer without commenting on the guy he's attacking with that post, and I especially dislike that you're troubling Baker by criticizing him for not analyzing the roleplayer when you didn't do that either.
So, deliver us your analysis of the roleplayer and his choice for lynch, since you're telling Baker to do that.
Needless to say I don't believe you're oblivious of the points made against DrT, there are enough that are worth commenting on and easy to understand, so you could tell us why you think they are not a valid way of guessing his alignment.
|
On May 30 2013 23:18 TomB4 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 23:05 Baker1986 wrote:On May 30 2013 23:01 TomB4 wrote:
can someone explain to me their reasoning for voting DrTennant? Having read over his posts and the posts of others several times now, I still don't understand why he's receiving votes. Someone explain it to me like I'm brain-dead or a five year old-exactly why he is the best lynch for today.
I'd much rather get PTroughton to say something worthwhile. I expect players in this game to avoid bullshitting and roleplaying given that it's a smurf game and it's in our best interest to get things organised rapidly. Trolling around is in direct opposition to that goal, particularly as we are at a huge disadvantage to a normal game in which we can use meta-analysis to determine whether behaviour of a certain type is to be expected.
##vote PTroughton2 While I agree with you, trolling and roleplaying is something just as likely to be done by a townie as by scum. If you think a bit you will realize that this idea of pressuring him into playing is not going to fly right now, because town is actually considering scum-lynches based on objectively scummy reason. IE: we're discussing killing people, not pressuring them. The guy is a boring unfunny troll, that doesn't make him scum. It's null. Move on to people actually worth analysing please. It's not null when he's done nothing else. Is he Chezinu? Is he Foolishness? Is he Palmar? We don't know. Identity matters when someone does something like this. Context matters, simply dismissing someone because of trolling is a great way to find yourself saying in lategame "if this guy is scum he deserves to win" and then losing to him. Everyone is worth analysing, and your dismissive attitude is disturbing in the sense that you don't seem to understand this. (not to mention you have simply ignored my question about DrT, or do not care enough to explain that position of yours I suppose?)
There is a very good case written by McCoy on DrT. In my back and forth with DrT I also refer to posts I made regarding his reads in the early game, and in this back and forth DrT has not given satisfactory answers to my questions. You should try reading the thread, it's like 6 pages long or something, shouldn't take long.
Of course I am aware that it's dangerous to leave someone who is trolling into the lategame, I'm not stupid. Don't you think the guy who hasn't posted is also a threat?
The point is, if I had no good scumreads, or if I felt unsure or confused, I would absolutely default to a policy lynch, on trolls or lurkers. But I do think we have a good chance of hitting scum here. I do think the case on DrT is a valid one, so that's what I'm going to focus on right now.
|
On May 30 2013 23:21 TomB4 wrote:
and for the record, I'm not suggesting we figure out who he is, I'm saying that because we don't know the identities of players in this game we absolutely cannot tolerate such behaviour.
Finding scum is that much harder when you have a player who is purposely an impedance to town efforts.
ie: you want to policy lynch him and I agree.
But I only have one lynch today, and I intend to use it on the dude I think has the highest chance of flipping scum.
|
I'm not oblivious, I don't actually think he is scum.
In fact, there are plenty of things he has said that I think make him look quite townish, but I'll let him defend himself.
I didn't criticise Baker for not analysing PTroughton. I criticised him for his dismissive attitude and for ignoring my question for clarification. You don't need to analyse a roleplayer to understand that what he is doing is detrimental to town, you simply need to support the idea that it needs to stop. Baker's attitude is dangerous in that it gives scum an excuse to not do anything. I've used that excuse myself countless times.
On May 30 2013 23:28 SMcCoy wrote:
So, deliver us your analysis of the roleplayer and his choice for lynch, since you're telling Baker to do that.
.
As long as he continues his current behaviour, and as long as I don't notice anything different about others, I will be voting him at least over DrT, given that I don't believe DrT is scum.
|
I think Dr. Tennant would be a good lynch today for the reasons others have touched upon, but I do think there would be a better lynch for today.
PTroughton's first post says almost nothing, and the few things it actually says are wrong.
He starts by going after H3's manner of speaking (blunt, small posts) while saying that he's trying to avoid contact with the rest of the people in the thread. I read this entirely as the opposite, while his posts are small and blunt, they also read as genuine conversation from H3. He's certainly not hiding from the discussion at all.
Troughton then states that H3 is lurking. Where could he have possibly gotten this from? This is a complete lie about H3's activity. The best part: Troughton has only made 1 post halfway through day one, and is trying to get H3 lynched based on "lurking".
It would not take more than 5 minutes effort to make a case on H3 that actually holds up, at least at first glance, but Troughton couldn't even be bothered to do that. He goes after something that a lot of townies do these days, and then lies about his activity.
Dismissing all of the roleplaying he appears to be attempting, he is quite obviously scum. He tried using his roleplaying to cover up for the fact that he has not read the thread, and is not invested in the game.
PTroughton is quite obviously the best lynch today because he is scum. I will consolidate on Dr. Tennant if it comes to that, because there's a distinct possibility he is scum, but I believe Troughton is caught red handed.
|
|
|
pt not talking about me at all is a big red flag in my eyes as well. I could kill him. I think you have a point that he may not be reading the thread. how can he not take a stance on me one way or the other after all that has been put out there.
|
ya lets kill him
##Vote: PTroughton
|
Doc, don't you feel bad for accussing someone of "maybe not reading the thread" when you yourself are clearly not reading the thread. You 'could kill him' someone else 'has a point' you couldn't be less committal if you tried.
Baker, you are right. DocT is one scummy mother fucker.
|
On May 30 2013 23:54 TheDavison wrote:
Doc, don't you feel bad for accussing someone of "maybe not reading the thread" when you yourself are clearly not reading the thread. You 'could kill him' someone else 'has a point' you couldn't be less committal if you tried.
Baker, you are right. DocT is one scummy mother fucker.
what haven't i read? Do you disagree with my point about him not saying anything about me despite me being a major headline?
|
the bandwagon of justice rolling through.. it is so beautiful
##vote ptroughton
|
On May 30 2013 14:15 Hurndall3 wrote:
1
"uscumbro?" is null possibly leaning town. I know you don't like it because of how it effectively accomplishes nothing, but town does it all the time.
2
people are searching for something to talk about early game. This is true of both town and scum.
DrTennant is not a scumread and I think there are already a bunch of better lynch candidates out there:
Eccleston
PTroughton2
JPertwee
*snip*
JPertwee might be a too scummy to be scum scenario. He is overly agreeable, wishy washy, and constantly asking people to expand on things they've said rather than contribute his own original thought.
Expand on Jpertwee please, why would you actually argue to not lynch someone for looking too scummy? The reasoning for leaving him not bothered looks kinda bogus to me.
If you are not sure if he's scum shouldn't it catch your attention that he's calling DrT scummy but prefers to jump on a guy for roleplaying? Why do you argue yourself into thinking he's town instead of trying to force out his opinions you seem to be missing?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Jpertwee, you seem to agree on DrT being scum but you prefer to lynch someone who only has one post so far. You barely touched upon the reasons for DrT being scum, and you tended to agree with what he posted early in the game. Your change of mind seems to follow thread sentiment and you only now provided some analysis while arguing why you're voting PT2 over DrT.
I would like you to tell me what you think of DrT voting your other scumspect.
Then I would like you to tell me if you find anything else being scummy about DrT, or paraphrase the points that convinced you the most, to know if you truly followed and acknowledged the thought process behind DrT being scum.
|
This McCoy dude is on a roll
|
On May 31 2013 00:31 SMcCoy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 14:15 Hurndall3 wrote:
1
"uscumbro?" is null possibly leaning town. I know you don't like it because of how it effectively accomplishes nothing, but town does it all the time.
2
people are searching for something to talk about early game. This is true of both town and scum.
DrTennant is not a scumread and I think there are already a bunch of better lynch candidates out there:
Eccleston
PTroughton2
JPertwee
*snip*
JPertwee might be a too scummy to be scum scenario. He is overly agreeable, wishy washy, and constantly asking people to expand on things they've said rather than contribute his own original thought. Expand on Jpertwee please, why would you actually argue to not lynch someone for looking too scummy? The reasoning for leaving him not bothered looks kinda bogus to me. If you are not sure if he's scum shouldn't it catch your attention that he's calling DrT scummy but prefers to jump on a guy for roleplaying? Why do you argue yourself into thinking he's town instead of trying to force out his opinions you seem to be missing? ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Jpertwee, you seem to agree on DrT being scum but you prefer to lynch someone who only has one post so far. You barely touched upon the reasons for DrT being scum, and you tended to agree with what he posted early in the game. Your change of mind seems to follow thread sentiment and you only now provided some analysis while arguing why you're voting PT2 over DrT. I would like you to tell me what you think of DrT voting your other scumspect. Then I would like you to tell me if you find anything else being scummy about DrT, or paraphrase the points that convinced you the most, to know if you truly followed and acknowledged the thought process behind DrT being scum.
Well, for starters, I only just now voted for Troughton, that's why you're just now getting the reason he's scum. Do you disagree with the analysis? Your demeanor sounds like you disagree, so let's hear your thoughts on him.
Dr. Tennant is not a slam dunk scum case in my opinion. He has some points that are scummy, such as going after one "wishy washy" post, but not going after another. His reasoning does have some merit if he's being truthful in believing that town are more likely to give out town reads than mafia, I disagree with this point, but if he believes it then his explanation does make sense from a town Dr. Tennant as well.
The difference between lynching Troughton over Tennant is that the points against Tennant are not exclusive to a scum mindset. He has done many scummy things, being quick to hop on the defense, saying he thrives in the spotlight but having his posting die down and giving out less reads since being the centre of attention but a town player could do all of those things in the same scenario.
Troughton however has quite obviously not read the thread, yet still managed to try and make a case on someone when all of the points in his case reflect much more poorly on what Troughton has been doing. He spent enough time to write out a role playing post, so obviously he had time to play, but he did not read the thread and did not comment on anything that actually happened in the game. There is no town motivation for that.
As far as Dr. Tennant voting for Troughton, I'm happy to have his vote on the wagon. I'm not convinced of him being scum, I'll consolidate on him if need be because I do find him suspicious, but I'd rather flip Troughton first. If Troughton flips red, I'll evaluate whether it was a bus to get the attention off of Tennant, or whether Tennant was just a townie getting off to a poor start. I'd have to wait longer to figure out what I'd do if Troughton did flip green, but to be honest at this point I don't see that happening.
|
I would like if we refer to troughton as the Trout for future reference and ease.
The difference between lynching Troughton over Tennant is that the points against Tennant are not exclusive to a scum mindset. He has done many scummy things, being quick to hop on the defense, saying he thrives in the spotlight but having his posting die down and giving out less reads since being the centre of attention but a town player could do all of those things in the same scenario.
Troughton however has quite obviously not read the thread, yet still managed to try and make a case on someone when all of the points in his case reflect much more poorly on what Troughton has been doing. He spent enough time to write out a role playing post, so obviously he had time to play, but he did not read the thread and did not comment on anything that actually happened in the game. There is no town motivation for that.
We don't know his schedule, we don't know if he will change his play to a more serious style, and we don't know if he didn't read the thread like you claim. I see his post as playful, I would also see his case as a quick judgment, but I feel he laid out the reasons for his scumread and would wait for him to come back and contribute further before deciding to lynch him.
On the other hand you mention some of the reasons why DrT is scummy, although they are just a fraction of the points brought against him, but you are aware that there is much more to work with, with him.
So I bolded you saying that what DrT has done is not exclusive to a scum mindset, I dare say that him defending quick judgments as part of his play and Eccleston's, as reply to me asking why I was scummy for not giving one in my first post, is a strong point for such a mindset.
Then, I would like you to argue why Trouts post is supposed to be exclusive to a scum mindset, since that is the reason you mention in defense of DrT for finding one more scummy than the other.
As far as Dr. Tennant voting for Troughton, I'm happy to have his vote on the wagon. I'm not convinced of him being scum, I'll consolidate on him if need be because I do find him suspicious, but I'd rather flip Troughton first. If Troughton flips red, I'll evaluate whether it was a bus to get the attention off of Tennant, or whether Tennant was just a townie getting off to a poor start. I'd have to wait longer to figure out what I'd do if Troughton did flip green, but to be honest at this point I don't see that happening.
Why would you have to figure out what to do if trout flips green.
I think it's weird that you would rather assume DrT could be scum after he was like, second or third to vote for Trout, if the latter flips red.
But if Trout flips green, you would not keep up your opinion that DrT looks scummy?
What is irking me, Wee, is that you are fully aware of the stuff that makes DrT look bad, but you seem reluctant to consider him for lynch if not for consolidation. Is there anything in his play that would lead you to give him a townread?
|
Baker (and everyone else for that matter), I saw you posting that you would resort to policy lynch the trout for roleplaying, but you also mentioned the two afk dudes being a threat. Do you think it would be wiser to policy lynch one of them rather than trout or do you prefer to lynch trout?
This case on trout started by being a policy lynch to people adding reasons as to why he's scum, it won't convince me this quickly.
|
On May 31 2013 02:16 SMcCoy wrote:I would like if we refer to troughton as the Trout for future reference and ease. Show nested quote +
The difference between lynching Troughton over Tennant is that the points against Tennant are not exclusive to a scum mindset. He has done many scummy things, being quick to hop on the defense, saying he thrives in the spotlight but having his posting die down and giving out less reads since being the centre of attention but a town player could do all of those things in the same scenario.
Troughton however has quite obviously not read the thread, yet still managed to try and make a case on someone when all of the points in his case reflect much more poorly on what Troughton has been doing. He spent enough time to write out a role playing post, so obviously he had time to play, but he did not read the thread and did not comment on anything that actually happened in the game. There is no town motivation for that.
We don't know his schedule, we don't know if he will change his play to a more serious style, and we don't know if he didn't read the thread like you claim. I see his post as playful, I would also see his case as a quick judgment, but I feel he laid out the reasons for his scumread and would wait for him to come back and contribute further before deciding to lynch him. On the other hand you mention some of the reasons why DrT is scummy, although they are just a fraction of the points brought against him, but you are aware that there is much more to work with, with him. So I bolded you saying that what DrT has done is not exclusive to a scum mindset, I dare say that him defending quick judgments as part of his play and Eccleston's, as reply to me asking why I was scummy for not giving one in my first post, is a strong point for such a mindset. Then, I would like you to argue why Trouts post is supposed to be exclusive to a scum mindset, since that is the reason you mention in defense of DrT for finding one more scummy than the other. Show nested quote +
As far as Dr. Tennant voting for Troughton, I'm happy to have his vote on the wagon. I'm not convinced of him being scum, I'll consolidate on him if need be because I do find him suspicious, but I'd rather flip Troughton first. If Troughton flips red, I'll evaluate whether it was a bus to get the attention off of Tennant, or whether Tennant was just a townie getting off to a poor start. I'd have to wait longer to figure out what I'd do if Troughton did flip green, but to be honest at this point I don't see that happening.
Why would you have to figure out what to do if trout flips green. I think it's weird that you would rather assume DrT could be scum after he was like, second or third to vote for Trout, if the latter flips red. But if Trout flips green, you would not keep up your opinion that DrT looks scummy? What is irking me, Wee, is that you are fully aware of the stuff that makes DrT look bad, but you seem reluctant to consider him for lynch if not for consolidation. Is there anything in his play that would lead you to give him a townread?
But his reasons are entirely false. Playful post or not, he voted for someone with completely false reasoning.
I think we're just having a misunderstanding. I do think Dr. Tennant is worthy of the noose today, I don't think he's as worthy as Troughton though. I don't have much time before I have to leave though. The way Tennant waffled on voting for Troughton doesn't make me think that Tennant is scum, unless they're both scum because he could've just hopped on the bandwagon for a good lynch right away. He didn't need to think about it, it'd get him in the clear. As a townie he'd want to make sure the lynch isn't a townie lynch. More after work, sorry to cut this short.
|
How is a "playful" post helpful to us? How is that at all indicative that he is town?
At best, you can argue that what Troughton has said is null, but even that is stretching. In a game like this, all of the town should be acutely aware of the fact that each player's presence is vital in attaining opinions and organising a good scumhunting effort. Being present but not caring about scumhunting is actually much worse than simply not being present at all, because there is standing evidence that a player has at least taken the time to read and post, but still is not contributing. That's far from "null" in my opinion.
On the other hand it still confuses me as to how DrT having more substance to work with is at all indicative of him being scum. If anything, his presence, effort, and opinions indicate the opposite.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
