EPTDoctor Who Mafia - Page 45
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
Note: Blazing just posted a case from another game in this thread by accident, so I told him he could edit it out. It had nothing to do with this game. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On May 21 2013 09:46 deconduo wrote: 'A number' of puppets. Not '1 puppet per player'. This means you could have the following scenario. X is a player. Y is an angel disguised as a player. Z is a puppet controlled by a hidden angel W. X, Y and Z all appear to be normal players. W only shows up on the board when illuminated. Y shows up as an angel when illuminated. X - Y - This has been the assumption I've been working off of since crossfire's post. However to clarify it: Is it possible for one of the labelled players on the board to be an angel? Also yes I damn well was willing to trade 1 for 1 with oats, as that would leave only one scum remaining, I had already claimed, so I didn't expect to live long anyway. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 22 2013 05:08 phagga wrote: Sentinel, any news on your second scum read? One at a time. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
Oatsmaster (2): deconduo, phagga [UoN]Sentinel (0): deconduo (2): [UoN]Sentinel, phagga (1): mkfuba07, The lynch will happen in at 20:00 GMT (+00:00). With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Let me know if I missed something or made a mistake. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
My case on phagga was a possibility that I saw, and felt like sharing because it answered all of my questions and also pretty much guarantees a win for the angels if it goes through. I don't want to lose to such a plan, if it exists, so I made it known. Since no one else (aside from possibly oats?) saw it as viable, then I might have let my imagination get away from me. I just want to make sure that everyone's taken it into consideration, because I've still seen nothing that invalidates it (aside from phagga playing a townier game than oats, which iirc doesn't seem like the hardest thing to do). In response to deconduo, I wouldn't say that I think oats has played a townier game than phagga. I guess I'm always just expecting some kind of major, overarching game plan from scum, even though that goes against my experience with the game. Based entirely on their play this game, I'd say phagga is town, oats is scum (assuming you're telling the truth about both your power and last night's check). The problem is, I've felt that most of us (excluding oats) played a townier game than ghost did, and he flipped town. Somewhat same for ffreyllt, though with her it was more of a "deal with it now or deal with it later" kind of thing. Chains of mislynches like that make me think that we're looking in the wrong place, so I tried looking where no one else appeared to be. I've lost at least two games of mafia in which I've made it to the end because I've decided that "that person couldn't possibly be scum". I think it was marv in deathnote mafia (for which I feel really stupid XD), and darthpunk in acme. I just don't want that to happen again. So, all of that being said, I will give in to the general consensus that I'm wrong (since you can't all be scum, right?). ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Phagga you better have some quality shit on Oatsmaster to justify yourself because your vote is deciding this election. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Why? Cause he has been flipflopping around my 'scumslip' and now of course he doesnt think phagga is scum, and he cant find any stronger reasons for me to be scum. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 22 2013 10:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Sentinel is second scum after deconduo. Why? Cause he has been flipflopping around my 'scumslip' and now of course he doesnt think phagga is scum, and he cant find any stronger reasons for me to be scum. I never thought phagga was scum. I fell into the sheephole and when you presented your justification of "I wanted to move here" I realized you were in a similar position I fell into by defending feryl. That's when I realized the error of my ways. I pushed for Dec but that one was harder to prove at the moment so I went for ghost. Although ghost flipped town, I gathered more scum play from the dec camp. Why are you not scum? Because Dec is, and for either of you to bus each other at lylo would be so idiotic I would make it a duty to policy lynch both of you from now on. Mkfuba is scum because he fluffs like a mofo and cherrypicks evidence. He believes dec's claim wholeheartedly yet votes to lynch you due to a scumslip and questionable meta. That's playing blind to so many facets of what's transpiring here, its obvious he is trying to sheep you simply because the alternative would be to bus Dec. It is for this reason I will not strive to convince him for he cannot be convinced as scum, but phagga can. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 22 2013 10:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Sentinel is second scum after deconduo. Why? Cause he has been flipflopping around my 'scumslip' and now of course he doesnt think phagga is scum, and he cant find any stronger reasons for me to be scum. Oh you misconstrued my post, I didn't see it. I'm still pushing Dec, I'm simply voicing my disdain for the Oats wagon and its integrity. I wish for the three remaining towns to vote for Dec, and I am asking Phagga what justification he could have to vote for you. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Bleh. Sarcasm doesnt really work. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On May 22 2013 11:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I never thought phagga was scum. I fell into the sheephole and when you presented your justification of "I wanted to move here" I realized you were in a similar position I fell into by defending feryl. That's when I realized the error of my ways. I pushed for Dec but that one was harder to prove at the moment so I went for ghost. Although ghost flipped town, I gathered more scum play from the dec camp. Why are you not scum? Because Dec is, and for either of you to bus each other at lylo would be so idiotic I would make it a duty to policy lynch both of you from now on. Mkfuba is scum because he fluffs like a mofo and cherrypicks evidence. He believes dec's claim wholeheartedly yet votes to lynch you due to a scumslip and questionable meta. That's playing blind to so many facets of what's transpiring here, its obvious he is trying to sheep you simply because the alternative would be to bus Dec. It is for this reason I will not strive to convince him for he cannot be convinced as scum, but phagga can. See, that's my problem when I play mafia. I can't keep everything everyone's said in my head at all times. I can't go through everyone's filters nonstop because it takes me an eternity. It takes me hours to write almost any post because it's like I see literally every possibility, and can't finish a thought without another one second-guessing what I've already written. If I try to play like everyone else (as everyone else seems to play similarly, though with different attitudes and with different skill levels), I'm fluffy and wishy-washy. So I try to focus on individual actions. It's why I wanted to vote for vivax earlier, and it's why I had more to say about oats's "scumslip". It's why I latched onto phagga's suggestion to check two people, when it gains us literally nothing other than the doubt I find myself in now. The fact that everyone else here (oats excluded, probably) seemed to have had very similar thoughts before the nightpost (oats likely scum, phagga likely town), makes me wonder why the hell no one sees exactly what I do. THERE WAS NO REASON TO CHECK PHAGGA! We all pretty much thought he was town! If I were in phagga's place, even if I considered that I could be checked at the same time, I'd leave it be because THERE WAS NO POINT. Add to that the fact that IF oats is town, and IF phagga is scum, this situation leads to an almost guaranteed win for scum, and the argument seems stronger. We already thought oats was scum. A green check (which decon would provide if it was an oats-only check) on oats would ruin that mislynch. What goes on to secure it? Adding a scum check that can either be attributed to oats or phagga, with obvious results. Keep in mind that this was before you mentioned your case against deconduo. At that moment, if it came simply down to oats vs phagga as scum, you know who you would choose, and I argue that that's what scum was counting on. ##Unvote Anyway, all of that being said, maybe I was taking deconduo's claim for granted. Do you not feel like fakeclaiming like that would be dangerous as scum at that point in time? Is it not risky to fakeclaim when there's the possibility of you being lynched, when being caught in a fakeclaim will guarantee it? Would you fakeclaim the DT role even though the Doctor would seem like a pretty good DT candidate himself (and you can't use his name, because there's definitely a Doctor out there)? These are some thoughts that keep me believing deconduo, so if you want me to vote for him, convince me I'm wrong. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Dec had nothing to lose. Sure enough, he could've passed himself as the third blue and pretended to be a DT. Zeph was one who would've pointed out that he too was a blue and there were an awful lot of blues in the game. But otherwise it would've been insanely hard to bust Dec or anyone on a simple claim. Imagine you were the real detective and someone else claimed - both of you haven't been able to secure a position next to someone to check , whether on purpose or accident. With your word against his, it would be impossible to root him out as scum. The rest of the players would suspect one of you is blue and the other red, but nothing more. Similarly in this case it is my word against dec's. I have attempted to lay out points that strengthen the notion that he is scum, and he has done the same to defend himself. I'm just claiming that my points make more sense in context than him. The fact that ghost was lynched sealed the deal. Now it is 2 vs 3 and thus the vote should hang on the balance of one townie. Maybe it is you who are town after all - I make mistakes and I have not analyzed either of you just yet. But dec's fakeclaim is very strong here - he wins, he wins the game. He loses, its 1 v 2 tomorrow and we have to start the scumhunt from scratch. TL;DR Fakeclaiming isn't as dangerous as you think it is. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
phagga is playing like town, IE he looks like town for me , The other thing, how this copcheck thing went down, it makes a lotta sense for phagga to be scum. How about, since there must be 2 scum, we discuss a lynch between mkfuba and Sent and figure out the cop check thing later, IE if dec stays alive, he is totally scum. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On May 22 2013 13:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Dec had nothing to lose. Sure enough, he could've passed himself as the third blue and pretended to be a DT. Zeph was one who would've pointed out that he too was a blue and there were an awful lot of blues in the game. But otherwise it would've been insanely hard to bust Dec or anyone on a simple claim. Imagine you were the real detective and someone else claimed - both of you haven't been able to secure a position next to someone to check , whether on purpose or accident. With your word against his, it would be impossible to root him out as scum. The rest of the players would suspect one of you is blue and the other red, but nothing more. I'd argue that in a counter-claim situation, it would be ridiculous for the person countering the claim to be scum, since that person would have intentionally outed himself as scum by counter-claiming a legit DT claim. i.e. if deconduo claimed DT, and you then claimed to be DT, it would be really ridiculous for you to be scum because you (as scum) would know that deconduo was telling the truth, and despite that you fakeclaimed, knowing full well that deconduo, at least, will know you're lying (and if we ended up lynching deconduo in that situation, we'd all know you lied when he flipped). Similarly in this case it is my word against dec's. I have attempted to lay out points that strengthen the notion that he is scum, and he has done the same to defend himself. I'm just claiming that my points make more sense in context than him. That might be true, but the convenience of this situation (at least in my case) is that his alignment can be narrowed down to a single criteria: whether or not he fakeclaimed. If he fakeclaimed, he's scum. Otherwise, he's town (or a 3rd party, but at the very least not scum). Some may call it cherrypicking, some may call it lazy, but I see it as a valid way of looking at the situation, narrowing it down in a way I can handle. TL;DR Fakeclaiming isn't as dangerous as you think it is. Still feels pretty dangerous, tbh. I still don't see it as likely that he fakeclaimed, given the guaranteed lynch if he did get counter-claimed. I'll take another look at what was going on around the time of his claim, but at the moment I'm not convinced. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I think its mkfuba. I agree that some of his stuff has looked good as I said, but scum have an easy time speculating on stuff so that isnt all alignment indicative I realize. Considering that I have a scumread on Dec, and that he switched between both of them day 1, whoever got lynched would look good for him. Further more, it seems like he has been following the boat and not rocking it, like all of his reads are in line with town sentiment, and his one outlier, read on phagga, he dropped after it wasnt supported by anyone other than be briefly. Other than that, all ive seen was a few long posts and no bursts of sustained activity I feel. ##Unvote Vote: mkfuba | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On May 22 2013 13:28 mkfuba07 wrote: See, that's my problem when I play mafia. I can't keep everything everyone's said in my head at all times. I can't go through everyone's filters nonstop because it takes me an eternity. It takes me hours to write almost any post because it's like I see literally every possibility, and can't finish a thought without another one second-guessing what I've already written. If I try to play like everyone else (as everyone else seems to play similarly, though with different attitudes and with different skill levels), I'm fluffy and wishy-washy. So I try to focus on individual actions. It's why I wanted to vote for vivax earlier, and it's why I had more to say about oats's "scumslip". It's why I latched onto phagga's suggestion to check two people, when it gains us literally nothing other than the doubt I find myself in now. The fact that everyone else here (oats excluded, probably) seemed to have had very similar thoughts before the nightpost (oats likely scum, phagga likely town), makes me wonder why the hell no one sees exactly what I do. THERE WAS NO REASON TO CHECK PHAGGA! We all pretty much thought he was town! If I were in phagga's place, even if I considered that I could be checked at the same time, I'd leave it be because THERE WAS NO POINT. Add to that the fact that IF oats is town, and IF phagga is scum, this situation leads to an almost guaranteed win for scum, and the argument seems stronger. We already thought oats was scum. A green check (which decon would provide if it was an oats-only check) on oats would ruin that mislynch. What goes on to secure it? Adding a scum check that can either be attributed to oats or phagga, with obvious results. Keep in mind that this was before you mentioned your case against deconduo. At that moment, if it came simply down to oats vs phagga as scum, you know who you would choose, and I argue that that's what scum was counting on. ##Unvote Anyway, all of that being said, maybe I was taking deconduo's claim for granted. Do you not feel like fakeclaiming like that would be dangerous as scum at that point in time? Is it not risky to fakeclaim when there's the possibility of you being lynched, when being caught in a fakeclaim will guarantee it? Would you fakeclaim the DT role even though the Doctor would seem like a pretty good DT candidate himself (and you can't use his name, because there's definitely a Doctor out there)? These are some thoughts that keep me believing deconduo, so if you want me to vote for him, convince me I'm wrong. Look, I'm not even debating that in hindsight it was useless to let decon check me as well, it was just something that came into my mind 5 minutes before deadline and then there was no time left to discuss it. Yes, I agree it could have been a plan by scum, but the point is that in both cases it did not make much sense to let that check happen. Also, as I said earlier, if I was so inclined on getting Oats misslynched, why would I kill all the people that support an Oats lynch? (mainly Zeph). Would it not be much easier to kill deconduo instead and then push an Oats lynch with Zeph? The plan you are implying is so highly convoluted that it would get a small chance of success for scum. If I was indeed scum, I would have had so many easier ways to push a misslynch than what you are proposing. Look, let's line this out: For your theorie to work, you have to make these assumptions:
For my explanation to work, you need to make these assumptions:
If you look at it like this, it should be obvious that while your theory is not impossible, it is very improbable. If I was indeed scum, why would I come up with such a complicated and risky-to-execute plan when I could have had it so much easier with the same chance of success? | ||
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