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Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 176

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Prev 1 174 175 176 177 178 210 Next
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
April 13 2013 17:03 GMT
#3501
I'm an alignment check, goofy.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
April 13 2013 17:04 GMT
#3502
On April 14 2013 01:57 Keirathi wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 14 2013 01:52 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2013 01:31 Keirathi wrote:
On April 14 2013 01:24 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway keirathi do you disagree that scum likely only has one KP left and that we should have dts check me instead of lynching me? If you're worried that scum would kill the dt who checks me, we could have both you and vivax check me.

No, I don't disagree. Hence why I said "Actually that's a good point" Scum almost certainly only have 1 KP left.

My only real problem is that we have no idea how the bonuses work. We know a "Gangster" got a godfather bonus. Does that mean a "Law enforcement" character can't get a godfather bonus? Or a "politician" character?

The answer you seek is here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766&currentpage=174#3467

Short answer is "no" Law enfrocement can not receive GF bonus.

You're reading that part wrong.

It says "politicians gain bonuses FOR HAVING vote manipulation roles" not "politices gain bonuses TO vote manipulation roles".

By your logic, how is godfather a logical bonus to assassin, a KP role?

In fairness, i didnt quote the whole OP as it was a response to something specific. Here we go
On March 19 2013 05:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
All roles that may be chosen are in the spoilers below. This game also has heavy theme elements. For instance every player will receive as part of their alignment PM a character from the show Boardwalk Empire. Depending on which character you receive you will have benefits for selecting a role that would fit the theme of your character.

For example. If you are a character like Richard Harrow a KP role would be more powerful in your hands compared to a detective role. IE if you were a 1 shot kp role normally but are also Richard Harrow you would have 2 shots instead. Politicians gain advantages for having vote manipulation roles, law enforcement has advantages to investigative, gangsters to kp roles, Kingpins have advantages to Traditional mafia roles such as godfather, prince of darkness, janitor, framer, roleblocker. All other characters gain advantages to defensive roles.
[/b]
I get what you are saying though: why wasnt the # of shots increased.
WIFOM, but perhaps because assassin is unlimited shots (if correct).
Assassins blend in, so GF is a flavour satisfying bonus for an unliminted shot role (in my opinion) but yes, wifom.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
April 13 2013 17:05 GMT
#3503
On April 14 2013 02:03 Keirathi wrote:
I'm an alignment check, goofy.

Ahh ok.. hmm much more plausible then.

That reminds me.. Who did Vivax parity check?

Will be really convenient if it was BM.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 13 2013 17:06 GMT
#3504
On April 14 2013 01:17 strongandbig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2013 00:22 Restraining Order wrote:
Okay.


On April 10 2013 07:04 strongandbig wrote:
if i were a vig i would probably shoot oo

or maybe i am a vig and have shot him already! scum you will never know the truth

On April 10 2013 08:44 strongandbig wrote:
obviousone
still shelvocke
both for reasons expressed earlier in my filter as well as by others

maybe meapak, he's acting as i would expect a pretty demoralized scummer to act (ie, not playing or defending himself) and i would expect scum to be pretty demoralized after that d1

but basically i'm expecting so much stuff to happen at the end of this night phase that i haven't seen much reason to be super active until we know what's happening

On April 10 2013 08:45 strongandbig wrote:
mocsta what do you think of obviousone?
for that matter what do you think of sharrant?

no need for a filter dive impressions are fine


The only mention he made here of M_Z before investigating him
maybe meapak, he's acting as i would expect a pretty demoralized scummer to act (ie, not playing or defending himself) and i would expect scum to be pretty demoralized after that d1

That's a pretty weak line of suspicion.

He said far more about OO, in a far 'stronger' way. Prime example:
if i were a vig i would probably shoot oo
etc.

This begs the question: Why didn't he investigate OO?
Looks more like he didn't actually want OO lynched.
His "push" on what is painted as his strongest scumread on the following day was decidedly weak too. "I'm voting OO, okay?" and things of that amount of impact, nothing actually substantial.

Now, plenty of people pushed OO/Sharrant lynches for relatively weak reasons (me included), but you'd expect more from a guy that has said his strongest scumread is on him.


How I see that situation - snb wants to have OO as top scum read in case OO flips.
snb does not actually want to push town into lynching OO though - his role is very valuable KP. He just tries to look like it.
In case snb flips instead, OO looks better for scum "pushing" him.

A town copandbig in that situation would not have investigated M_Z over OO.
A town cop in the position snb was in (credibility-wise) would have made sure of OO (who, as a high placing player on the draft list, is very likely to have a really strong role for his alignment) instead of some guy he's mildly suspicious of.

Instead, he went for a weak read, giving him a 'safe' towncheck to throw out, while giving him what he really wanted out of it - information about M_Z's role.

snb is a bad cop, not a good cop.

Look at when I first brought up OO when I was trying to get sharrant to post more. Was OO under any suspicion at that point? If he was I don't remember it. The reason I was hesitant was because I made a superficially similar case on OO in red team mafia and he was town. But if I'm his scum buddy there's absolutely no motivation or upside for me to focus more attention on him during day 1 when both VE and artanis are prime thread suspects begging to be lynched. It's just stupid play, and I thought if there was one thing we established in red team it's that I may be bad at scum hunting but I'm not stupid.

However, I was telling the truth night one - if I was a vig I would have shot him. However, that makes him a bad check - I thought the odds were decent that someone else would actually do it.


Also a general rule as a blue - never talk about who you're actually going to act on. It's just begging for a roleblock if you're right and it's letting scum know they don't have to worry about you if you're wrong. Like, I can't believe you're actually using "he didn't check the guy he was talking about that night" as a reason I'm scum.


Under that assumption, how exactly does he make a better shot, then? In that case, you doublestack the KP.
I don't buy it.

Yes I use the fact that you didn't check OO after saying you'd shoot him. Cop checks and shots use the same thought process for target selection, and it makes no sense to say "I would totally have shot and risk a doublestack, but I wouldn't check a guy that might maybe die"


Look, if we're not supposed to lynch you today,
Who do you suggest should be lynched instead of you?
How about you talk about that instead.
Don't let me stop you.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
April 13 2013 17:08 GMT
#3505
I know what the OP says. I've looked at it constantly since I got a green check on sinani.

My entire point is we know that you get a bonus for picking a role that fits into your Theme. We have no idea how those bonuses are chosen, or assigned. We have anecdotal evidence that Assassin got a godfather bonus, and that Justice Vig got a bonus that either made him not compulsive and/or allowed him to shoot townies (probably the latter). That tells us that the bonuses within a single theme category aren't even the same and are role specific, but it doesn't tell us if other theme categories can get the same bonuses or not.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
April 13 2013 17:16 GMT
#3506
Also it should be noted that bonuses are probably alignment specific too, not just role specific. Town Assassin getting GF bonus wouldn't have been practical, nor would town getting "Injustice Vig" bonus.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
April 13 2013 17:22 GMT
#3507
P.S. Where the hell is Vivax?
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
April 13 2013 17:23 GMT
#3508
Too tired for this shit.

Night guys.

One thing I learnt from filter diving last night (Art/VE/OO)

was that, Artanis and IIRC OO; gave Vivax town reads with weird justifications.

Artanis town reads on ppl like u, felt real (like he really thought u were town, and was giving points).
But with Vivax, he just commented on some stuff about meta.

Just something to keep in mind; if Vivax parity check was on BM; I would just lynch him.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
April 13 2013 17:33 GMT
#3509
On April 14 2013 02:23 Mocsta wrote:
Too tired for this shit.

Night guys.

One thing I learnt from filter diving last night (Art/VE/OO)

was that, Artanis and IIRC OO; gave Vivax town reads with weird justifications.

Artanis town reads on ppl like u, felt real (like he really thought u were town, and was giving points).
But with Vivax, he just commented on some stuff about meta.

Just something to keep in mind; if Vivax parity check was on BM; I would just lynch him.

If only someone had checked Vivax. Like everyone said to. Hmmmmmmm?
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
April 13 2013 17:56 GMT
#3510
Well, this is extremely late but,

GG go town
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
April 13 2013 18:01 GMT
#3511
I dont see the point.

I can only role check.

and he was so confident to immediately say parity cop... i saw no reason to validate that.

All the other cops tried to be more reserved, and just say cop.

If anything that makes vivax look worse though. Point is.. im sure my check would come back parity, so what then?
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
April 13 2013 18:34 GMT
#3512
On April 14 2013 03:01 Mocsta wrote:
I dont see the point.

I can only role check.

and he was so confident to immediately say parity cop... i saw no reason to validate that.

All the other cops tried to be more reserved, and just say cop.

If anything that makes vivax look worse though. Point is.. im sure my check would come back parity, so what then?

Scum won't pick parity cop. It serves them absolutely no purpose.

If he returns Parity Cop, that's as good as an alignment check.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
April 13 2013 18:40 GMT
#3513
EBWOP: I guess I should say "Scum shouldn't pick parity cop.". It isn't impossible that some crafty scum picked a town-only role, but I find it extremely unlikely because that requires an exceptional level of play to pull off.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 13 2013 18:43 GMT
#3514
FWIW, the same argument was used on the justice vig pick. And see how that turned out..
Don't let me stop you.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
April 13 2013 18:44 GMT
#3515
Right.. and scum wont pick JusticeVig either

and scum wont hard bus day 1

This game; almost anything goes.

The only person I am truly certain of is myself, Restraining Order, Shevlocke, Sinani and perhaps Oats.

I know you are slippery as scum; and your day1 was questionable.. but i have to put trust in you trying to figure out this game being town; and remove that WIFOM out of the equation.

That leaves; yam/SnB/Vivax.

I see no reason to not have the vote rigger enable double lynch; and start getting rid of the drift wood, and expedite this game to completion.

Anyways, really super tired, so def going to bed now. peace Out, will be out most of the day tomorrow.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
April 13 2013 18:47 GMT
#3516
On April 14 2013 03:43 Restraining Order wrote:
FWIW, the same argument was used on the justice vig pick. And see how that turned out..

True. I didn't really think about that.

But my problem is...how do you turn parity cop into a scum-friendly role at all? Make it a role cop? I guess that's possible, but it seems to completely change the role, rather than just changing some minor mechanics. I guess its possible, though. A caveat is that both of the scum who have had role-based bonuses, their role name has changed.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
April 13 2013 18:49 GMT
#3517
On April 14 2013 03:44 Mocsta wrote:
That leaves; yam/SnB/Vivax.

S&B has green+VT check on yam. Whether S&B is town or scum, the check is valid. And a VT can't get any "bonuses" afaik. Which means yam is almost certainly green.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9389 Posts
April 13 2013 18:51 GMT
#3518
On April 14 2013 03:49 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2013 03:44 Mocsta wrote:
That leaves; yam/SnB/Vivax.

S&B has green+VT check on yam. Whether S&B is town or scum, the check is valid. And a VT can't get any "bonuses" afaik. Which means yam is almost certainly green.

Ahh ok. I can live with that

That leaves Vivax really

kk

##Unvote
##Vote: Vivax
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 13 2013 18:54 GMT
#3519
On April 14 2013 03:47 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2013 03:43 Restraining Order wrote:
FWIW, the same argument was used on the justice vig pick. And see how that turned out..

True. I didn't really think about that.

But my problem is...how do you turn parity cop into a scum-friendly role at all? Make it a role cop? I guess that's possible, but it seems to completely change the role, rather than just changing some minor mechanics. I guess its possible, though. A caveat is that both of the scum who have had role-based bonuses, their role name has changed.

Not sure, tbh. I don't see a way without completely changing how the role works. Like, not just an add-on like assassin had, or a flip-around like JV. More of an actual change in the core mechanics.

It's a shame the flips are so minimalistic in this game, it would have been interesting to see how other roles change.
Don't let me stop you.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
April 13 2013 19:20 GMT
#3520
On April 14 2013 03:51 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2013 03:49 Keirathi wrote:
On April 14 2013 03:44 Mocsta wrote:
That leaves; yam/SnB/Vivax.

S&B has green+VT check on yam. Whether S&B is town or scum, the check is valid. And a VT can't get any "bonuses" afaik. Which means yam is almost certainly green.

Ahh ok. I can live with that

That leaves Vivax really

kk

##Unvote
##Vote: Vivax

Finally Mocsta catches up to the rest of the thread.
Writer@WriterYamato
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