The Game [N] - Page 51

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Keirathi

United States4679 Posts

March 19 2013 06:19 GMT

#1001

On March 19 2013 15:14 WaveofShadow wrote:

Show nested quote +

That would be devious as fuck, and seems really unlikely.

How is it devious? Scum players defend town players all the time. Why do they do it? Because they can get "town cred" for it because they know that they are right.

Hell, just look at this filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387591&user=133498&currentpage=All

That's BH's scum filter from Parallel. You can see how much time he spends defending his town reads.

DarthPunk

Australia10855 Posts

March 19 2013 06:19 GMT

#1002

Furthermore Viscera eyes tried to state that townies don't use pressure or policy votes which everyone who is somewhat experienced knows is complete BS.

When asked about it he tries to deflect it but it is the same BS lie that it originally was.

On March 18 2013 08:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
I believe that townies don't use their vote to try and change the way other people are playing. I believe that townies vote for people they think are scum, because that is the function of the vote.

After he posts this several people including myself question how he could lie so blatantly in order to lynch someone and HE DISAPPEARS FOR THE REST OF THE DAY.

and when he comes back HE IGNORES EVERYONE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS LIKE THEY NEVER HAPPENED.

Please lynch viscera eyes. He is without a doubt 100% scum and needs to die.

WaveofShadow

Canada31494 Posts

March 19 2013 06:20 GMT

#1003

On March 19 2013 15:16 Mocsta wrote:

Show nested quote +

That actually gave me townie points on BH... im surprised we treating this "tell' so differently

Will have to re-read the logs, they REALLY hard to read.

Yeh gotta read from bottom to top and then the dates/signatures are hard too.
I'm not saying that his obsession with geript is scummy per se, but I have an overall null read on Geript so if there's something I'm missing to make him look scummier I'd be interested to see if BH can bring something purely objective to the table.

Wade Fell

United States501 Posts

March 19 2013 06:25 GMT

#1004

On March 19 2013 15:20 WaveofShadow wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't know how to flip the GK one upside down, but the VE one is multi-page so it can be flipped.

+ Show Spoiler [VE reverse chronological] +

atsmasterPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
07:06 AM ET (US)
hey
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
12:33 PM ET (US)
Well shit sir. Another Nightmare? Perhaps one that's not quite so town-aligned? You talkin about shooting me at the end of this conversation? You talkin about ending my life BH?
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
12:36 PM ET (US)
I'm confident DP is scum - the way he reacted to my case (strict OMGUS) is a town tell with newer players but not with DP I think. That guy is smart and I think his reaction to my case was an act.

Look at the way he defended it. He never explained proper town motivations or tried to make me understand his point, he immediately was all "Did you hear what VE said?! He said townies never pressure people!"
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
12:40 PM ET (US)
But I have nothing concrete on him. Only my case and my feels. :/

You've been very very absent from the thread, because this happened at night I have to assume that you didn't mason anyone during the day. What's going on in the would of Blzinghand?
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
12:46 PM ET (US)

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It's almost certain that one of us will be shot tonight, so this is likely our only chance to talk. I'm a masoner who can mason a new person every phase, and I cannot remason someone I've already masoned. During D1 I masoned with GK, which is part of why I became very sure he was town. I'm reasonably confident you're town, but if you're scum well you were probably gonna shoot me tonight anyways.

In any case, I currently have two strong scumreads I want to push. I'll admit I never super looked into DP since I was more focused on other candidates for D1, so I'll add him to my "stuff to post just before daybreak" list, but right now I'm more worried about Geript and TPS. I've talked a lot about TPS in thread already but mainly I'm concerned about his attempts to _look_ like he's contributing without actually doing it. I'm like 90% sure his "anger" at my spamming is faked given that you had the same filter length as me at the time and his response to it was to just quote a bunch of my posts. He's done a pretty slick job of not contributing to the game and looking like an "emotional townie"

Geript might be just me being mad, but it really just looks like he's attacking anything constructive that tries to happen. I still don't like his RNG discussion at the start of the day, but even ignoring that, he never made a really good case for why zare was scum other than "he worded things differently this game", and he switched to GM when the heat was on. What really makes me think he's scum though is his weird attack on me at the start of this night. Now MAYBE Geript is just butthurt because people didn't reread his filter in LX but I think he's legitimately trying to disrupt town from being useful.
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
12:48 PM ET (US)

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Also FWIW I've been skiing this weekend which is why I've been only really posting between 6 pm and midnight every day. Don't expect me to be mentioning IRL excuses in thread though, I have way more balls than that.
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
12:52 PM ET (US)
I don't wanna run with that geript read. I want to engage him on his actual suspects, without fear of him losing his shit and looking even scummier if he's town. Like...if he's town, we gotta handle with care because you and I both are gonna probably think he's scum. I want to engage him personally on his reads, and we'll see what we see then.

TPS I can run with. I didn't like that post quoting your posts at all, and it didn't make any sense singling you out.

So you can pick a new target every cycle? Every cycle? Why didn't you pick me during the longer cycle? Why did you pick GK for the first cycle?
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
12:58 PM ET (US)

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The problem with town Geript is he'll act like Geript in LX under pressure and become useless and probably mislynched. It's frustrating that that's the man's meta, but that's what it is. I don't want to let that dissuade me from pushing him though or else he's some horrible unlynchable scum player who is worthless as town. I'll finish up a case on TPS a bit later today to share. Ideally I'll chuck it up just before daybreak.

I picked GK about halfway through the first day because I had a townread on him. If I mason a scum player, the chance of me getting shot goes up a lot, and I know GK pretty well-- he was, and is, almost certainly town. I'm masoning with you tonight because if scum is smart at least one of us won't be around tomorrow.
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:00 PM ET (US)
AND you can't remason. I'm offended. Officially.

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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:00 PM ET (US)

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Like, you get why the "Geript might lose his shit" argument isn't reasonable right. The guy can't just hold our analysis hostage to a threat of flipping out
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:01 PM ET (US)
Stop that line of thinking. I'm not saying don't pressure him. I'm saying don't out and out call him a scum read or he'll be all "WELP THATS FUCKING GAME CAUSE VETS THINK I'M SCUM"
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:02 PM ET (US)
I'm saying give me a bit first. Let me talk to the guy. THEN we'll talk about geript scum, and if necessary, bring it to the thread in full force.
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:03 PM ET (US)

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Also as a secondary scumread: Vivax. This whole "yeah I'm gonna be shot for my good play, please protect me medic" thing really rubs me the wrong way. Not even countering the scumslip (which anyone could make), he hasn't been pushing a real town-motivated objective for most of D1. This is admittedly a softer read than I'd like but something intuitively is telling me that Vivax is scum, and I do well when I listen to that voice in my head.
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:04 PM ET (US)

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Okay I'll lay off Geript for now, that's reasonable enough. We can goodcop-badcop this shit
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:05 PM ET (US)

Yeah Vivax seems to be playing more sane this game than usual too...that's not a scumtell for him though is it?

e: like the rules have manner laws and anti-spam laws in place. Could he not just be trying to abide?
Edited 03-18-2013 01:09 PM
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:09 PM ET (US)
re: Vivax

tell me what you think of the last paragraph of this post.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18064964
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:11 PM ET (US)

Also I feel like this post is dissonant.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18078961

He states that he thinks "scum would have no need to switch off to a mislynch" and then concludes that two people who switched from DP to GM are scum.

At least, that's what it looks like to me. I just skimmed it because I'm trying to work fast before I go to work. XD
Edited 03-18-2013 01:12 PM
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:40 PM ET (US)
Hrm @ Mocsta immediately jokingly buddying me.
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:51 PM ET (US)

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You already pointed out that post in-thread. Vivax either is scum or has no idea who his scumreads really are, since he claims scum are pushing a wagon but is marking people not on said wagon as scum. That's definitely a scumtell because a town player would probably remember who his own scumreads are, whereas a scum player would have trouble keeping his lies straight. It's the same thing that happens in his post-vote analysis. Basically, Vivax doesn't have consistent scumreads, and his analysis isn't pointing at the people who he says is scum. It's like he has a set of reads he feels some need to push, then writes analysis that isn't really related, rather than having a thought process that connects scumhunting to scumreads.

Basically a town player wouldn't make this mistake because he'd be aware of who his scumreads actually are.
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:54 PM ET (US)
I did point it out in thread, but to my knowledge you never commented.
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:56 PM ET (US)

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Fair enough. Whatever case is made against Vivax though should hinge on his town/scum mentality and not on the "Scumslip" about Yamato77 imo. Scumslips generally aren't actually real.
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
01:57 PM ET (US)
No, they're very real. Very. But that Vivax thing is not a scumslip.
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
05:28 PM ET (US)
I'm going to assume that you're not a Nightmare...because your communication only lasts a phase. Why has GK not claimed you masoning with him was that at your request?
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
05:34 PM ET (US)

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Yeah I didn't want it to be confirmed I was a blue. If you want you can ask him to confirm it and I'm sure he will but ideally we don't let scum know this
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
05:52 PM ET (US)
You're here and not commenting on the case I'm making against Ryu in the thread. Care to comment here if you're trying to let it develop organically in the thread or something? Ryu is essentially claiming scum in the thread from my perspective.
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:02 PM ET (US)

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I'm playing dota

ryu looks like shit, we lynch him tmr imo. his claim that he wasn't "afk" or whatever during the development of the greymist case is crap. weird contradictions

also evidence for DP being scum but wont' comment on assoc between unflipped, will wait to see ryu flip

will write more once i'm done doating
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:04 PM ET (US)
I wish I could DOTA. *dustkick*
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:04 PM ET (US)

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alt theory: ryu geript zarepath scumteam, but I think DP was under more pressure than zare so this theory less plausib. ryu wanted to setup a GM lynch then hang back and see if it got steam without comitting, which is why his case is weak and explains thread absence after inital bad setup
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:06 PM ET (US)
Suppose Zare picked up steam? I neglected to comment on Zare what if I had commented and the wagon swung?
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:07 PM ET (US)

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regardless the common factor here is Ryu = scum in either theory, so we lynch him first
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:26 PM ET (US)
WTF? I don't even care about association theories. LOL
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:30 PM ET (US)

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I don't understand the Zare question then. Overall the ryu thing seems pretty straightforwards: he shifted stance on sandro, he let the wagon push itself, and has given contradictory reads and not backed anything up. How does Zare or you commenting on wagon swings have to do with that?
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:34 PM ET (US)
I was spitballing with you but you stated it as reasoning for wanting to lynch Ryu. For my part I just don't care what that says about anyone else yet. XD

So I'm not crazy then? That's logical and I'm not losing my shit here?
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:51 PM ET (US)

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You're entirely non-crazy. I'll slap down a patented (link)-filled blazinghand style case on Ryu before the end of the night and see how he reacts to it.
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-18-2013
06:59 PM ET (US)
To be frank you're entirely non-existant this game as compared to LX. I'm not really concerned about geript suspecting you because honestly before this conversation I was suspicious of you too. Being in a QT with someone pretty much excuses that though.

Can you go into detail about your read on TPS?
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-19-2013
12:21 AM ET (US)

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Fair enough. I'll be responding in thread. You wouldn't try to pull this as scum, so at least there's that. I don't think outing me as a Mason is the right move. DrH and Oats have both repeatedly privately threatened me with modkill due to spamming, which is why I have decreased my post count.

The thoughts in here if I get shot tonight will corroborate your story that I did in fact mason you.
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-19-2013
12:40 AM ET (US)
It's the right move. If you're town you'll be able to prove it. I just don't think so based on the contents of this QT. And because you're "actively decreasing your post count" that's all I have to go on. Sorry dude.
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BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-19-2013
12:44 AM ET (US)

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TBH it's probably what I'd do if the situations are reversed. I'll never admit to setup speculation in public, but given a flipped mason, there's higher-than-average chance of other masons being scum. But at least, if I should die tonight for some reason, don't let geript walk free. That miserable cunt is laughing at me, VE. Laughing.
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VisceraEyesPerson was signed in when posted
03-19-2013
12:55 AM ET (US)
You will be avenged.

Keirathi

United States4679 Posts

March 19 2013 06:27 GMT

#1005

@sciberbia:

I'm not interested in lynching zare right now. For one, I don't know his meta and I don't have time to read it tonight. But for two, he's mostly reading as newbie town to me. I completely disagree with his case on Hopeless, but that's because I am very familiar with Hopeless' play. But otherwise, he brought up some solid points on Hopeless and Wiggles. He seems to be trying to figure things out like a newbie town would.

My biggest problem with his play, actually, is him playing the newbie card. But that's not enough that I'm interested in him for now. He's fine to leave alive a bit longer and see how things progress.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

March 19 2013 06:30 GMT

#1006

On March 19 2013 15:20 WaveofShadow wrote:

Show nested quote +

Actually for me the tell was how he went about discussing Geript.. Maybe i have been conned, but I read genuine consideration being given..

My take was that BH is instinctively driven to lynch a player like Geript (too much deviation in play styles). As scum he could EASILY push that lynch on that validation. Instead, he is actively querying other peoples thoughts to see if its just him being tunneled, or there is something there.
Now yes, scum coudl be fishing on a push.. but lets be serious.. Geript is lynchbait, you dotn need to go to that effort to validate the push.

I am reading this as a town guy trying to actively put consideration into his targets.

As I said before.. the Log format is a fuckn bitch to read.. so I would like to read it one more time (will prob copy/paste the logs into word or soemthing.. just to confirm im not missing some funny business.. but I think that he handled Geript the same to both VE and GK gives consistency to the tell. (He didnt know he was gonna post the mason log either remember!)

Thoughts WoS?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

March 19 2013 06:31 GMT

#1007

On March 19 2013 15:27 Keirathi wrote:
@sciberbia:

I'm not interested in lynching zare right now. For one, I don't know his meta and I don't have time to read it tonight. But for two, he's mostly reading as newbie town to me. I completely disagree with his case on Hopeless, but that's because I am very familiar with Hopeless' play. But otherwise, he brought up some solid points on Hopeless and Wiggles. He seems to be trying to figure things out like a newbie town would.

My biggest problem with his play, actually, is him playing the newbie card. But that's not enough that I'm interested in him for now. He's fine to leave alive a bit longer and see how things progress.

U liked his first post?

As a funny tidbit:
zarepath done some weird shit as newbie town. Last game i played with him, he wrote a fake case on someone he had a town read on.. to gauge reactions.. the fake case was so good. the target (WaveofShadow IIRC pertty much gave up LOL)

WaveofShadow

Canada31494 Posts

March 19 2013 06:32 GMT

#1008

On March 19 2013 15:19 Keirathi wrote:

Show nested quote +

I meant it would be devious as fuck if they were both scum, and made up the QT logs.
Incredibly unlikely.

WaveofShadow

Canada31494 Posts

March 19 2013 06:33 GMT

#1009

On March 19 2013 15:31 Mocsta wrote:

Show nested quote +

Haha yeah it was my first game and I no idea how to react. The funny thing is his case was actually pretty good. Overall though the fake case accomplished nothing.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

March 19 2013 06:34 GMT

#1010

devious.. i noticed BH posted the logs, and GK added his 2c in within 1min.. maybe coincidence

Keirathi

United States4679 Posts

March 19 2013 06:35 GMT

#1011

On March 19 2013 15:31 Mocsta wrote:

Show nested quote +

No, I didn't "like" his first post. It is full of bad rationale and terrible arguments ("Someone told me that VE always claims town in his opening post, but him doing it this game is scummy anyways"). But that's not exactly the kind of things I expect a newbie scum to say either.

Honestly, it feels like a newbie town trying to have a good reason to start posting, but failing. His thoughts are free-flowing and not pre-constructed. He's not being "clean" with them. Etc/etc.

WaveofShadow

Canada31494 Posts

March 19 2013 06:37 GMT

#1012

On March 19 2013 15:30 Mocsta wrote:

Show nested quote +

You call Geript lynchbait...has he actually been as such this game?
Looking into his filter his read on zare is more or less what I came up with on him, and he does a decent job attempting to press his reads. Sure he gets trolly later on with BH but if you look at his play in the most recent NMM he has discovered his balls, apparently.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

March 19 2013 06:37 GMT

#1013

On March 19 2013 15:35 Keirathi wrote:

Show nested quote +

Interesting. set my scumdar off.. because its a whole bunch of saying nothing.

Hmm.. Kk, i will relook into him without the bias

Keirathi

United States4679 Posts

March 19 2013 06:37 GMT

#1014

EBWOP: And, he stands up to VE's SAST. How many newbie scum go out of their way to stand up to vets?

WaveofShadow

Canada31494 Posts

March 19 2013 06:39 GMT

#1015

On March 19 2013 15:37 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP: And, he stands up to VE's SAST. How many newbie scum go out of their way to stand up to vets?

I did the same thing.....

On March 17 2013 02:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm not familiar to heavily themed games but what makes me wonder here about the setup is the sheer number of roles. 17 to be exact. Are these all going to be roles with power?

And now off the topic of setup speculation a few things I noticed from the very beginning of the game:

BH playing exactly like I've seen him before, mega aggressive. It works fine for him, he hunts scum and succeeds.
Can't decide whether I like Geript's 'new troll-y' style of playing or not, but ultimately (as many have pointed out) it's probably better than the way he ended in LX.
I don't have any scumreads as of yet (especially since half the thread is yet to post) but I'll be keeping my eye out.

Oh yeah one more thing: VE that SAST idea is retarded in my eyes, but makes me wonder about some sort of extra/3rd party wincon. Something like,' get a bunch of people to join your 3rd party group and successfully get 3-5 people mislynched' or some shit. I can't think of ANY other reason why you'd try to be serious about something that ridiculous. If you're serious about hunting scum, it's probably better you focus on that since you can be a huge asset to town when you're focused.

Keirathi

United States4679 Posts

March 19 2013 06:39 GMT

#1016

Anyways, my point is, I don't have a "Yep, I'm sure this guy is town. There's no way we're lynching him" read on zare. But, I am not interested in lynching him tomorrow. I'm more than happy to give him time to contribute and get a better read on.

Keirathi

United States4679 Posts

March 19 2013 06:40 GMT

#1017

On March 19 2013 15:39 WaveofShadow wrote:

Show nested quote +

I did the same thing.....

Show nested quote +

So, you're saying you're scum, so my argument is invalid?

Okay then.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

March 19 2013 06:40 GMT

#1018

On March 19 2013 15:37 WaveofShadow wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 19 2013 15:30 Mocsta wrote:

On March 19 2013 15:20 WaveofShadow wrote:

On March 19 2013 15:16 Mocsta wrote:

On March 19 2013 15:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
BH you have an unhealthy obsession with Geript imo. And I was pissed at him last game but I've since played in another NMM with him and he's perfectly capable of decent play; I think he may have learned from LX and doesn't seem likely to repeat it (though he's certainly trollier now).

If you survive the night, make a case on Geript and I'll listen to it if it's actually based on decent reads and not an emotional response to him.
Still waiting on the other stuff you promised too, daypost is coming up real soon I think.

That actually gave me townie points on BH... im surprised we treating this "tell' so differently

Will have to re-read the logs, they REALLY hard to read.

I havnt read anything of Geript other than his RNG push, so perhaps im talking out of turn..
But i stand by him being lynch bait.. he gets emotionally flustered too quickly. Geript admits freely he has been voted Least Valuable Town numerous times.. so yeah.

I dunno what to expect from a scum Geript; but based on my heuristic of a lynchbait Geript.. I think BH reasoning is town aligned.
U didnt actually comment on your thought; other than geript isnt lynchbait?

Do you think his logs feel forced in general?

WaveofShadow

Canada31494 Posts

March 19 2013 06:41 GMT

#1019

On March 19 2013 15:40 Keirathi wrote:

Show nested quote +

So, you're saying you're scum, so my argument is invalid?

Okay then.

No, I'm saying that argument is meaningless either way. Zare is not afraid to 'stand up' to anyone, nor should he be, scum or town. I think it;s null.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

March 19 2013 06:41 GMT

#1020

On March 19 2013 15:39 Keirathi wrote:
Anyways, my point is, I don't have a "Yep, I'm sure this guy is town. There's no way we're lynching him" read on zare. But, I am not interested in lynching him tomorrow. I'm more than happy to give him time to contribute and get a better read on.

I can run with that reasoning.. because.. even though i dont like his play.. the points raised are valid enough to give credence to town motivations.

We shoulda hydraed keir

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