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11589 Posts
My belief is that one of bugs/vivax is scum and the other could be eywa. But I would rather not lynch Eywa until tomorrow.
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Important Service Announcement:
Please ignore all c9++ related setup speculation. I found a bug in my generator program. Just play mafia and forget that its suppposed to be c9++.
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11589 Posts
Keir.
Why you do this to me.
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On December 28 2012 02:37 Keirathi wrote:Important Service Announcement:
Please ignore all c9++ related setup speculation. I found a bug in my generator program. Just play mafia and forget that its suppposed to be c9++.
this explains the missing RB :p
though food for thought:
scum have 1 goon, 1RB, 1GF, almost certainly. There was an SK.
N1 there should have been 2 kills unless the SK held his shot. He claimed to shoot Toad, and honestly I can believe that.
I probably was not a jail target n1, so I must have been RBed by the scum. That means Palmar was jailed-either he was shot or was carrying the kill. I think he was probably shot.
N2 we have vivax being jailed and Palmar claiming shot on Vivax, the other RB goes to morbidius. Again, scum RB on morbidius most likely. Kill goes through which means Vivax was not carrying it.
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On a smoke break at work. Just got to Palmar's post asking me my role. Straight VT. If I was a power role I would have claimed once everyone else did to try and figure out the setup instead of guessing.
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On December 28 2012 03:59 Stutters695 wrote:
On a smoke break at work. Just got to Palmar's post asking me my role. Straight VT. If I was a power role I would have claimed once everyone else did to try and figure out the setup instead of guessing.
who's scum with vivax?
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Hey guys. Sorry I've been inactive over Christmas.
It looks like we are massclaiming, so I will tell you I am a Vanilla Townie
Unfortunately, it looks like we can't derive the setup 100% because there was a problem with Keirathi's generator. But I think we can have reasonable faith in all the claims made so far. And I think goon + roleblocker is a safe bet for the remaining scum.
On December 27 2012 02:49 Palmar wrote:
I dont think eywa will flip scum. Look at the wording wiggles used back on day 1 to interact withw eywa after his case on me but before wiggles realized he was lynched. "I like your style" etc.
Not to mention I felt like eywa genuinely thought I was scum. I think he is just a bad townie.
@Palmar
As to your first point on Eywa about his interaction with Wiggles, I don't see how that evidence is in Eywa's favor. Experienced scum like Wiggles often try to interact with their scumbuddies in such a way as to throw people off. Also, I think that Wiggles post about Eywa might have come out awkward like it did because he was making it about a scumbuddy. I counted the interaction between Eywa and Wiggles as a point against Eywa rather than as a point for him.
At first I thought that eywa's case seemed genuine too. But when I consider the trolly and disinteresed nature of his entire game, his writing seems to me more likely motivated by a desire to entertain rather than a desire to show how Palmar is scum. Clearly several sections of his post are intended to be humorous rather than logical analysis. His degree of confirmation bias is so extreme that I don't think it would be too difficult to fake. He basically listed every post Palmar made, found a way to made it look bad, and shouted SCUM.
I still think Eywa is our best lynch today. But I wouldn't mind a lynch on bugs or Vivax. I'll share my thoughts on them in my next posts.
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11589 Posts
On December 27 2012 17:36 Promethelax wrote:
I looked at it and realized how bad a Bugs we've seen and, while it is possible that we have that terrible a town Bugs it make more sense for Bugs to be scum than it does for Bugs to be town. This has been true for the whole game.
What changed is that I decided pressuring Bugs to do something townie and useful would be a much better use of my vote than leaving it on Eywa- and I am not unwilling to lynch Bugs if he doesn't respond to the pressure of being on the chopping block. It also helped that the people voting for Bugs are all town.
Look at this post for a second. What does this reveal about Promethelax' mindset in regards to this lynch? He admits here that the vote is a pressure vote and gives bugs an out, which means the only reason he is actually putting his vote here is because he wants to look more townie by agreeing with people that are town. He isn't any more convinced of Bugs' guilt than he was before, which is what I suspected when I saw him switch his vote with such little explanation. He just discovered that the timing might be right to switch his vote, admonish bugs, and look more townie for it.
On December 22 2012 14:47 Promethelax wrote:
Morb, sorry you think I'm dumb. Doing what I do best. If you want to check my past games feel free to check my profile, they are all there. My own self evaluation would put me as a middle of the pack player whose strengths lay towards proving himself townie over finding scum. Others may disagree.
That post combined with this one give us an insight into how Promethelax wants to be seen. Here he admits he isn't a good scumhunter but that his strengths lie in "looking townie". Well, it just so happens that scum want to focus on looking townie, too. This combined with his choice of target for scum hunting the majority of this game immediately make me feel less confident about the real intentions of our dear friend Promethelax.
I would theorize a possible Vivax/Promethelax scum team if bugs is indeed townie.
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On December 28 2012 04:05 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 03:59 Stutters695 wrote:
On a smoke break at work. Just got to Palmar's post asking me my role. Straight VT. If I was a power role I would have claimed once everyone else did to try and figure out the setup instead of guessing. who's scum with vivax?
Eywa. For my reasoning check that long post from last night. I haven't forgotten your request prom, I'm on my way home then I'll talk about it.
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Ebwop: I saw Palmar claim he thinks he's town, but I haven't had time to fully read your interaction with Palmar about it to see if he has a point. I'll address that as well, but unless I missed a major breadcrumb or something he's either scum or this is the worst townie play I've ever seen which feels unlikely as hell. I'd be comfortable with a lynch on either today because I think they're both scum but a Vivax flip provides significantly more info.
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Reasons I have to be suspicious of bugs:
bugs has been disagreeable and has caused a lot of time and thread space to be used unproductively
This definitely benefits mafia. I know that bugs is often disagreeable as both alignments, but I think he is likely to be moreso as scum, and there are several examples of him picking fights and wasting thread space in this game.
- On D1, bugs called Toad scum, but did not explain his read. Despite Toad's attempts to engage bugs in discussion, bugs either dodged Toad's questions or simply called Toad dumb.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 16:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
Toad is scum, let's kill him, toad is scum, let's kill him, lalala la la laaaaaa
##vote Toadesstern
On December 19 2012 23:19 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 22:47 Toadesstern wrote:
Do you think I'm stupid or do you hope someone else is stupid bugs? I think you're all dumb. How's that? On December 20 2012 00:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
So Toad where is your vote? On December 20 2012 00:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
Toad's dumbness strikes again!
What a bullshit reason to vote someone. On December 20 2012 02:10 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 01:42 Toadesstern wrote:On December 20 2012 01:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 20 2012 01:10 Toadesstern wrote:On December 20 2012 00:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
Toad's dumbness strikes again!
What a bullshit reason to vote someone. to get this straight, you agree with my analysis on your "trap" and the nature of your trap being retarded as you explained what you're doing while doing it which generally speaking is a bad thing when trying to get true reactions. You however think that it makes you blatantly town and everyone should agree on you being town because of that and the fact that you bursted like a baloon, desperatly trying to explain what you're up to when being poked at ever so slightly? You know, instead of just going along with your trap/reaction-fishing to get what you (apparently) intended to get (hint: it's reactions). nope, you're just dumb. I haven't "desperately" tried to explain anything. Also to the couple people who were crying about "dumb doesn't equal scum!" you're right, it just means Toad is dumb. I never said that's why I think he's scum. Nice try, though. If it's not desperate: On December 19 2012 21:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
At this point in the game it's not the figuring out of alignments that's the problem. It's publicizing reads that I don't have an interest in publicizing.
I have no reason to make public reads that are better off being developed in private. Tainting reads by giving your targets forewarning that they're being watched carefully is generally (I've found) a good way to ruin them, at least on day 1.
That's why I like to observe, for the most part, or at least cause some reactions, without putting forth all of my motives. why did you post it to begin with? I'm seeing a WBG getting in the thread, planting a rnd vote to get reactions while explaining that he's into laying traps and getting reactions. Those 2 things don't go along that nicely so I'd say you posted it because you thought you should for whatever reason. Why did you post it if it wasn't desperation? the fuck? Why would I need to be desperate in order to tell someone why I'm not going to answer his questions? On December 20 2012 03:07 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 02:27 Toadesstern wrote:On December 20 2012 02:20 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 20 2012 02:17 Toadesstern wrote:On December 20 2012 02:10 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 20 2012 01:42 Toadesstern wrote:On December 20 2012 01:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 20 2012 01:10 Toadesstern wrote:On December 20 2012 00:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
Toad's dumbness strikes again!
What a bullshit reason to vote someone. to get this straight, you agree with my analysis on your "trap" and the nature of your trap being retarded as you explained what you're doing while doing it which generally speaking is a bad thing when trying to get true reactions. You however think that it makes you blatantly town and everyone should agree on you being town because of that and the fact that you bursted like a baloon, desperatly trying to explain what you're up to when being poked at ever so slightly? You know, instead of just going along with your trap/reaction-fishing to get what you (apparently) intended to get (hint: it's reactions). nope, you're just dumb. I haven't "desperately" tried to explain anything. Also to the couple people who were crying about "dumb doesn't equal scum!" you're right, it just means Toad is dumb. I never said that's why I think he's scum. Nice try, though. If it's not desperate: On December 19 2012 21:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
At this point in the game it's not the figuring out of alignments that's the problem. It's publicizing reads that I don't have an interest in publicizing.
I have no reason to make public reads that are better off being developed in private. Tainting reads by giving your targets forewarning that they're being watched carefully is generally (I've found) a good way to ruin them, at least on day 1.
That's why I like to observe, for the most part, or at least cause some reactions, without putting forth all of my motives. why did you post it to begin with? I'm seeing a WBG getting in the thread, planting a rnd vote to get reactions while explaining that he's into laying traps and getting reactions. Those 2 things don't go along that nicely so I'd say you posted it because you thought you should for whatever reason. Why did you post it if it wasn't desperation? the fuck? Why would I need to be desperate in order to tell someone why I'm not going to answer his questions? because saying that totally cripples / backfires on your general idea how to play this game d1? If you intended to post that there was no reasoning for reaction fishing earlier on, which is fine because you might have concluded that it failed and just ignored it but you kept going on about it over here: On December 20 2012 00:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
So Toad where is your vote? which makes no sense. You're either sabbotaging your own play or you're posting useless stuff that looks like you're doing something. I don't see you do either of those 2 as town. none of what you're saying makes a shred of sense. So, I'm going to ignore you, seeing as I think morbidius is far more likely scum than you. Okay nice and slow: - You like random-voting without any sort of reasoning d1 to reaction-fish in general
- You did it this game as well, voting me early on
- You go ahead and explain that you like doing stuff like that so that EVERYONE AND THEIR DOG knows that what you did is just reaction-fishing and nothing serious at all
You do realize that that makes no sense and backfiring, right? You do realize that it makes me wonder why you reaction-fished in the first place if you're not even careing about the results because you're ruining them by explaining what you're up to so eagerly. What part of the logic / question isn't making sense. herp derp it wasn't a random vote. That in itself kills your whole theory.
- On D1, bugs spent a lot of time bickering unproductively with Palmar
+ Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 19:14 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 18:20 Palmar wrote:
Actually that's not true. I don't think you can safely read anything into the frequency of posting, but if you really want to, I'd rather go with it being a point in the scummy column than the townie one if a player is posting less than expected.
Also what the fuck is up with this new TL town shit meta of defending everyone and everything for no bloody reason. What happened to only defending if you're certain you're right and just letting people fend for themselves? Someone doesn't understand what "inversely correlated" means. Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 18:41 Palmar wrote:On December 19 2012 09:10 sciberbia wrote:Hi everyone! In the interest of getting discussion started, I'm going to argue why millers should claim on D1 in this setup: We have either no millers or 1 miller, and the chance that we have a miller is roughly 40%. + Show Spoiler +C9++ specification: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9++Keirathi said in the OP that he replaced innocent child with miller. So, we have a miller if Keir drew exactly 1 M or exactly 3 M's. He drew 7 letters and each has a 10% chance of being an M. Chance of 1 M = (.1)^1 * (.9)^6 * (choose 1 from 7) = 37.20087% Chance of 3 M = (.1)^3 * (.9)^4 * (choose 3 from 7) = 2.29635% So overall, the chance that we have a miller is 39.49722% Therefore, it would be a major risk for scum to fakeclaim miller. They'd have a 40% chance of being counterclaimed and subsequently lynched. Because it is such a big risk for a scum to take, I think we could have some faith in any D1 miller claim being an honest one. Thoughts? You forget that the counterclaim doesn't necessarily mean that the scum will get lynched right away, I dare say I'd take this chance as scum. If you manage to argue your way out of the day 1 lynch and get the real miller lynched, you've successfully wasted a day for town and even if you yourself will die the following day, it's 2 days pretty much wasted. So not only do you have 40% chance of getting ridiculous amount of town cred (who is thinking about lynching yamato77 now? anyone?) But you also get an additional 30% chance of at least wasting towns time for not a great, but acceptable trade. (assuming there's 60 I'd do it in a heartbeat.However, I think we need to trust yamato's claim. Or well it's the default position. I don't know the guy and I usually assume people I don't know just play straight up, because recognizing this opportunity as mafia, having the confidence to win against the counterclaim, and having the balls to make the claim seems too much to ask from someone who's new I think. That leaves 11 people to look at. no you wouldn't, you're too pussy to do that. On December 19 2012 20:14 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 19:57 Palmar wrote:
Also what do you intend to accomplish trying to argue whether or not I'd take a chance on a powerplay as scum? Are you just trying to stir up shit for the sake of it? nope, just pointing out misrepresentation. On December 19 2012 21:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm not answering your dumb questions. They're a total waste of time at this stage in the game.
Also lol @ the lying part. You might know yourself better than I do but I certainly don't think the best judge of one's play in mafia is himself. On December 19 2012 21:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
At this point in the game it's not the figuring out of alignments that's the problem. It's publicizing reads that I don't have an interest in publicizing.
I have no reason to make public reads that are better off being developed in private. Tainting reads by giving your targets forewarning that they're being watched carefully is generally (I've found) a good way to ruin them, at least on day 1.
That's why I like to observe, for the most part, or at least cause some reactions, without putting forth all of my motives. On December 19 2012 22:14 wherebugsgo wrote:
there is a marked difference between making reads on players and calling them out.
You can make reads on players and call them out when it's an appropriate time to do so, e.g. when you are sure of your read. At this stage in the game it's pretty much impossible to be sure of most things. On December 19 2012 23:21 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 22:20 Palmar wrote:
Whatever, your refusal to share any of your thoughts make it hard to get a read on you. Maybe we should just lynch you to get a read on you. This is a pretty empty threat given that it's less than 24 hours into day 1 and no one has done much at all.
- Bugs calling everyone dumb
+ Show Spoiler +On December 24 2012 01:35 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 01:06 Promethelax wrote:
So Vivax, you have no scum reads?
WBG, you are smarter than this. Usually. What gives? actually, when everyone is being dumb, it's hard to tell what people are. Seriously, I feel like the entire forum is at least 20% dumber than when I stopped playing in summer. On December 24 2012 06:55 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote:
Also your argument is basically you look like you are bad because everyone else is bad. You sound like me in my newbie game and I got rightly told how wrong I was for that when I did it.
So quit it. If you're actually town you need
to prove it so I don't have to consider you as a potential scum. Instead you give a bullshit excuse for your play so far. If we are so bad and you are so good you should be able to nail the scum team. So do it. I don't have to prove anything, given that there is no reason at all to call me scum. No one has made a case that makes any sense at all. The entire case is that "your play looks bad" which is subjective and it's not even correct. Besides, even if I am playing badly, playing badly is not ever alignment indicative. That's why it's so fucking hard to get a read on bad players, because they'll do wildly unexpected things as either alignment. I haven't done anything wildly unexpected as far as I can tell. It's just extremely frustrating when I am repeatedly asked to explain things that I have already explained multiple times. My biggest annoyance in mafia games is when people don't do the most basic of things: READING THE THREAD.
- Argues about how the scum must be weak and lurky
+ Show Spoiler +On December 24 2012 06:55 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote:
Also your argument is basically you look like you are bad because everyone else is bad. You sound like me in my newbie game and I got rightly told how wrong I was for that when I did it.
So quit it. If you're actually town you need
to prove it so I don't have to consider you as a potential scum. Instead you give a bullshit excuse for your play so far. If we are so bad and you are so good you should be able to nail the scum team. So do it. I don't have to prove anything, given that there is no reason at all to call me scum. No one has made a case that makes any sense at all. The entire case is that "your play looks bad" which is subjective and it's not even correct. Besides, even if I am playing badly, playing badly is not ever alignment indicative. That's why it's so fucking hard to get a read on bad players, because they'll do wildly unexpected things as either alignment. I haven't done anything wildly unexpected as far as I can tell. It's just extremely frustrating when I am repeatedly asked to explain things that I have already explained multiple times. My biggest annoyance in mafia games is when people don't do the most basic of things: READING THE THREAD. On December 24 2012 06:55 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote:
Also your argument is basically you look like you are bad because everyone else is bad. You sound like me in my newbie game and I got rightly told how wrong I was for that when I did it.
So quit it. If you're actually town you need
to prove it so I don't have to consider you as a potential scum. Instead you give a bullshit excuse for your play so far. If we are so bad and you are so good you should be able to nail the scum team. So do it. I don't have to prove anything, given that there is no reason at all to call me scum. No one has made a case that makes any sense at all. The entire case is that "your play looks bad" which is subjective and it's not even correct. Besides, even if I am playing badly, playing badly is not ever alignment indicative. That's why it's so fucking hard to get a read on bad players, because they'll do wildly unexpected things as either alignment. I haven't done anything wildly unexpected as far as I can tell. It's just extremely frustrating when I am repeatedly asked to explain things that I have already explained multiple times. My biggest annoyance in mafia games is when people don't do the most basic of things: READING THE THREAD. On December 24 2012 10:00 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 09:28 Stutters695 wrote:On December 24 2012 06:55 yamato77 wrote:
I mean, you do realize that you're a potential lynch candidate right? So if you are town don't you want to prove it instead of letting us think about lynching you?
Or are you just not reading the thread? Of course I want to prove it. I'm in the thread when I can be and trying to make posts from my phone when possible. If you checked my previous games, this happens every time and every time I'm always town. On December 24 2012 06:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
not only that, but I'm being called scum for calling eywa and stutters scum?
It's a fucking process of elimination, it doesn't take a genius to see that scum absolutely suck nards this game. If we are to take claims at face value then the remaining scum are pigeonholed. We just lynch through several players in order and autowin the game.
If we don't take the claims at face value then it's either because we flipped a townie or it's because we have a very strong reason to believe that the claims aren't true, i.e. at this point a counterclaim.
Given that no one can explain to me how either stutters or eywa is town, the easiest path of action is just to kill them both after debears. So what happens if debears flips SK? Do you honestly think that the both remaining scum would be the two lurkiest people in the game? I wouldn't be surprised is Ewya is scum but it would be an incredibly stupid play for both of us to be scum and lurk. If you think we're both scum, how do you explain wiggle's death being so easy like he was being bussed? If I was scum wouldn't I be in a significantly better position by railing the shit out of wiggles and building town cred instead of staying on the fringe while people call for a vig shot on me all game? this guy clearly can't read mafia godfather dying d1 = scum are weak. weak scum lurk. This type of correlation is not genius-level play.
resistance to Wiggles lynch
In particular, I thought it was a bit suspicious that bugs argued against the Wiggles lynch without actually referencing any of Wiggles's posts, but only by saying that it was a bad lynch because people were sheeping Palmar on it.
voting Morbidius over Debears on D2
In particular, I thought his reason for saying "debears is town, you asshats" seemed like it might have been fabricated. His argument was that debears was town solely because he would not have shot Toad. Putting so much faith in analysis of the NK seems dubious to me from an experienced player. This is especially true because he did not even carefully reread either Toad's filter or debears's filter, as evidenced by his misstating Toad's reads, and supposedly missing a crucial post of debears.
believing Morbidius's claim so quickly
I found it suspicious that bugs believed the cop claim so easily. Bugs is a very self-confident player and spoke numerous times about how sure he was that Morbidius is scum:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 02:12 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 01:49 Morbidius wrote:
##vote wherebugsgo
Will post more on it later, am a bit busy at the moment but i promise to post more reasoning. Even so this is day 1 where scum reads are at their weakest. nice. This is the "I know this guy is not scum, but I'll post some bullshit later...however, since I know I'm wrong I'm going to mention the fact that on day 1 reads are weak, so I don't get raped by town later." ##unvote Toadesstern
##vote Morbidius On December 20 2012 02:20 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 02:17 Toadesstern wrote:On December 20 2012 02:10 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 20 2012 01:42 Toadesstern wrote:On December 20 2012 01:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 20 2012 01:10 Toadesstern wrote:On December 20 2012 00:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
Toad's dumbness strikes again!
What a bullshit reason to vote someone. to get this straight, you agree with my analysis on your "trap" and the nature of your trap being retarded as you explained what you're doing while doing it which generally speaking is a bad thing when trying to get true reactions. You however think that it makes you blatantly town and everyone should agree on you being town because of that and the fact that you bursted like a baloon, desperatly trying to explain what you're up to when being poked at ever so slightly? You know, instead of just going along with your trap/reaction-fishing to get what you (apparently) intended to get (hint: it's reactions). nope, you're just dumb. I haven't "desperately" tried to explain anything. Also to the couple people who were crying about "dumb doesn't equal scum!" you're right, it just means Toad is dumb. I never said that's why I think he's scum. Nice try, though. If it's not desperate: On December 19 2012 21:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
At this point in the game it's not the figuring out of alignments that's the problem. It's publicizing reads that I don't have an interest in publicizing.
I have no reason to make public reads that are better off being developed in private. Tainting reads by giving your targets forewarning that they're being watched carefully is generally (I've found) a good way to ruin them, at least on day 1.
That's why I like to observe, for the most part, or at least cause some reactions, without putting forth all of my motives. why did you post it to begin with? I'm seeing a WBG getting in the thread, planting a rnd vote to get reactions while explaining that he's into laying traps and getting reactions. Those 2 things don't go along that nicely so I'd say you posted it because you thought you should for whatever reason. Why did you post it if it wasn't desperation? the fuck? Why would I need to be desperate in order to tell someone why I'm not going to answer his questions? because saying that totally cripples / backfires on your general idea how to play this game d1? If you intended to post that there was no reasoning for reaction fishing earlier on, which is fine because you might have concluded that it failed and just ignored it but you kept going on about it over here: On December 20 2012 00:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
So Toad where is your vote? which makes no sense. You're either sabbotaging your own play or you're posting useless stuff that looks like you're doing something. I don't see you do either of those 2 as town. none of what you're saying makes a shred of sense. So, I'm going to ignore you, seeing as I think morbidius is far more likely scum than you. On December 20 2012 06:02 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 05:59 Palmar wrote:On December 20 2012 02:12 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 20 2012 01:49 Morbidius wrote:
##vote wherebugsgo
Will post more on it later, am a bit busy at the moment but i promise to post more reasoning. Even so this is day 1 where scum reads are at their weakest. nice. This is the "I know this guy is not scum, but I'll post some bullshit later...however, since I know I'm wrong I'm going to mention the fact that on day 1 reads are weak, so I don't get raped by town later." ##unvote Toadesstern
##vote Morbidius @Wherebugsgo: how strongly do you feel about Morbidius, I know you've moved on since you wrote this but I need to understand what your line of thought is when you voted this. I actually highly disagree with any scum read on Morbidius, reading over his posts he seems way too genuine to be scum. Granted, he hasn't posted very much but he looks like a townie to me. I understand your premise for this vote, but I disagree with your conclusion. pretty strong, I'm willing to call him scum with zelblade. Little bit stronger on zelblade given that I have actually played with him before. On December 21 2012 03:32 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 03:12 Morbidius wrote:
I'm way more confident in a wiggles lynch right now his posts have been very scummy while my suspicion over my other reads have weakened. He has been shooting accusations at everyone and hoping one of them works. Also his ''case'' on palmar is the dumbest thing i've read so far.
##unvote
##vote Mr. Wiggles The fuck is this? Some of these posts are shady as fuck. Particularly this one. On December 21 2012 23:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
--snip--
As for who is scum, just look no further than morbidius.
On December 22 2012 16:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
I was roleblocked.
Let's do it right today.
##vote Morbidius On December 23 2012 03:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
I can't see any scum claiming that dumbly, unfortunately.
Let's kill stutters then.
##unvote
##vote Stutters695
However, he immediately backed off Morbidius when he claimed cop. It seemed a little off that he never doubted an unconfirmed claim by someone he repeatedly said he was confident was scum.
switching to debears
It seemed convenient that bugs agreed debears was scummy only after Palmar voted bugs:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 23 2012 03:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
I can't see any scum claiming that dumbly, unfortunately.
Let's kill stutters then.
##unvote
##vote Stutters695 On December 23 2012 04:01 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 03:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
eywa and sciberbia also are options. If two scum are not between those 3 then add debears. --snipped-- Fuck this, I can't keep giving you a pass when your reads are terrible. ##Vote Wherebugsgofor trying to killl 2 people I have a town read on and not being useful at all. On December 23 2012 05:55 wherebugsgo wrote:actually, fuck. I just realized I made a pretty big mistake. this post: Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 15:53 debears wrote:Here are my pretty certain reads. One thing that I want to stress is how easily the Wiggles lynch came about. What does this tell us about the characteristics of the mafia? They are weak and unable to fight, or they were not around to fight the lynch. Townie Town Townyamato77
Palmar Both were the first two to vote wiggles. Both pushed for his lynch. Likely TownToadesstern - looking back at his posts, especially his vote post, he rings town. There's some possibility for scum, but he was the third to vote Wiggles. I feel he could have easily pushed for my mislynch with all the shit that was being believed in the thread Slight TownScribs - His posting was focused, with a townie mindset. His late vote (4th in the order) on Wiggles is alarming though after he kept saying that Wiggles was the scummiest looking Nullzelblade - didn't vote. Got modkilled. I wouldn't worry too much about him right now with Prom taking over. No motivation from either side for his d1, especially the part of not voting, which I would say is slightly more town indicative. Stutters695 - he was 7th to vote for Wiggles. His explanation : avoid a modkill. I feel that this is a classic case of too scummy to be scum. Why on earth would scum say that and draw attention to themselves like that, especially with a teammate on the chopping block? However, it's still plausible. I think a vig shot is our best course of action on him since he isn't readable. WTF?????Eywa - Idk what to say on this dude. His post on palmar early d1 seemed good and original, yet his whole game has been wayyyyyy off from a scum or townie perspective. I don't feel like he's scum even though his vote was in la la land Slightly scummyBoth of these two were afk for most of the parts of the day, dropping in once in a while. They would fit the mold of a weak/afk scum team wherebugsgo - he opposed the Wiggles lynch after saying we should lynch Wiggles. That's very odd. But, I'm not sure if he would so weakly defend his teammate Vivax - His contributions after the kenpachi rule trap by him were very limited. It's possible he just planned to use the kenpachi rule as scum to look like contributing. Scum City BitchWhen considering between the two mentioned above and these two, the following have the most scummy reactions to the Wiggles lynch, especially when based on the fact that the scum team must be either weak or afk when the momentum on wiggles started. iamperfection- PLEASE REREAD MY CASE ON HIM. PLEASE. I looked through the thread again. He came off just as, if not more, scummy. + Show Spoiler +Here's the bit I needed to add on his reaction to Wiggles + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 09:00 iamperfection wrote:
@palmar
What do you know about wiggles meta im trying to figure out if he is just stupid or if he is mafia.
I said when i saw it his post regarding Eywa at the time was the dumbest thing i had ever seen but do you know anything about his meta. is he prone to this stuff with regards to his alignment?
Why so trusting of Palmar's meta reads on d1 with only a slight town read on him? On December 20 2012 08:53 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 07:43 Palmar wrote:On December 20 2012 07:16 iamperfection wrote:
hey palmar when you do that list thing where give your reads and dont give any reasons for what your thinking your sucm.
you listed debars as leaning scum and haven't even mentioned a single reason why or mentioned him at all for that matter.
What say you to that? Hello. Are you not reading the thread? Every single read I've made I've made at least a passing comment towards. You've asked about debears, and here is where I picked up something I didn't like from him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17290209I think every person not in the "not read yet" I've either interacted with or posted about for the thread to see. What are you looking for? Also could you give your opinion on the Zelblade and Wiggles lynches we're discussing now. yeah i missed that one. When palmar is scum he gives 0 reasoning in his reads. Its possible hes grown out of that but i will lean slightly town for him since hes been active and engaged. But i will have my eye on you palmar i hold you in very high regard. asks open ended questions but doesn't make any kind of read himself On December 21 2012 00:32 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 04:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Eywa, I like you style, screw the haters. One question though: You make this post: On December 19 2012 23:51 Eywa- wrote:
I would like to examine the current situation and weigh in on mathematics. Generally speaking, there is a 75% or higher chance that if we kill someone on the first day that we will end up in a worse predicament than we currently are. I understand that our streets have been taken over by scum at night, but fear is not a reason to lose all our civil rights and obligations. As a productive member of society and an established citizen of this town, I plead that we take it easy today and allow our local police force to run their investigations before we strike. Saying that you'd like us to consider going for a no-lynch on Day 1 and just waiting for Day 2, so that we can possibly get a check in, or at the very least have something to talk about. Later, you come in with your analysis of Palmar, which is cool that you made it, but after re-reading, one thing that stuck out to me was that a majority of the posts and behaviour of Palmar that you draw on comes from before you made your no-lynch post. In-between your no-lynch post and your analysis, you were called out by a couple players for not commenting on the game (which I disagree with, but whatever). So, the analysis came after that. So, my question to you, is when did you become suspicious of Palmar? The timing of the post combined with the posts you draw from don't really fit when put into the context of your no-lynch post. You ask to no-lynch, then later you make a post saying Palmar is scum, which is fine, because you can change your mind, but your analysis is all based on stuff Palmar did before your no-lynch post, so if you found it to be so scummy, why didn't it strike you before? So, to me, it looks like you made your no-lynch post, got shut down, then went back and looked for someone to make a case on. What gives? well a lot of people have been getting worked up about this post. Yes its stupid but is it something a town wiggles could say? Pushes for my lynch pretty hard >>>>> disappears, even though he is so convinced I'm scum On December 21 2012 01:28 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 01:24 debears wrote:On December 21 2012 01:22 iamperfection wrote:On December 21 2012 01:21 debears wrote:On December 21 2012 01:18 iamperfection wrote:On December 21 2012 01:15 debears wrote:
Iamp you should really read my toad case and my meta again.
1) my main problem with toad was his vote on wbg when he didn't vote me. His plsts about me seemed toc indicate that he believed I was showing strong mafia motivation in my one pos of "I did thag once". His reasoning for voting wbg was weak compared to his reasoning on me. Yet he didn't vote me
Add that with bim being unreasonable and wasting my time js scum oriented
2) I tunnel when I think I've found scum. Figure it out. You use one fucking game for your meta read? You're fu of shit
Also, did you forget that I tunneled the shit out of hapa and hopeless that game d1?
3)
3) I can't provide more content on someone (stutters) when they hardly post
4) you say I'm not interacting with the thread. That's a fucking lie. I interact plenty when I have time and other people are on. All last night the only person who showed was toad. Yamato came when I was getting off.
5) you say my activity is different. Have you even considered that its near fucking christmas??????????? Explain to me how its solely explained by scum motivation because its not
In fact, in mario mini, I disappeared for half of day one for activity
So iamp, you are
1) blatantly misrepresenting what I am doing in threae
2) arent rearing my cases
3) didn't actually look up my meta. 1 game =\= meta
4) misrepresenting my meta in the one game you did use
You are scum
##Unvote
##vote iamp
3) yeah ok buddy go do scum hunting if your town. You are not hunting scum and havent done it the entire game. You gave no reason for why im scum. Thats a great response. If your case is so good you should be hammering me. Your response "go scumhunt because yiu haven't" is bullshit. I am scumhunting. You know you are wrong and you can't refute my case. I will not allow you to misrepresent my meta scum lol what case Show me how 1) me tunneling someone is solely aligned with my scum games 2) how my drop in activity on day is solely aligned to my scum games. Its not at all. In fact its the oppsosite You can't provide those, and you don't want to. Because you are scum and you are wrong whatever dude thats not my case and clearly you haven't read it. Sure you tunnel sometimes but you push those tunnels and your at all time open to other possiblities. Your straight up omgus of is you claiming scum i believe. vote this kid On December 21 2012 01:38 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 01:34 debears wrote:
Iamp is scum his case is a total misrepresentation of my play.
I will not stand for thi shit. Ill go over it in more detail when I'm back home later today by the way when you came back you tunneled me and shat up with toad once again. Made a passing comment on a couple others and gave no scum motivation behind anyone's actions. Your scum debars. im sorry. You just have to accept it. Why wasn't he there to push the lynch for me if he was so certain I was scum and he wasn't convinced Wiggles was? In fact, he said he didn't know what to think of Wiggles, other than Wiggles is stupid. On December 21 2012 00:32 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 04:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Eywa, I like you style, screw the haters. One question though: You make this post: On December 19 2012 23:51 Eywa- wrote:
I would like to examine the current situation and weigh in on mathematics. Generally speaking, there is a 75% or higher chance that if we kill someone on the first day that we will end up in a worse predicament than we currently are. I understand that our streets have been taken over by scum at night, but fear is not a reason to lose all our civil rights and obligations. As a productive member of society and an established citizen of this town, I plead that we take it easy today and allow our local police force to run their investigations before we strike. Saying that you'd like us to consider going for a no-lynch on Day 1 and just waiting for Day 2, so that we can possibly get a check in, or at the very least have something to talk about. Later, you come in with your analysis of Palmar, which is cool that you made it, but after re-reading, one thing that stuck out to me was that a majority of the posts and behaviour of Palmar that you draw on comes from before you made your no-lynch post. In-between your no-lynch post and your analysis, you were called out by a couple players for not commenting on the game (which I disagree with, but whatever). So, the analysis came after that. So, my question to you, is when did you become suspicious of Palmar? The timing of the post combined with the posts you draw from don't really fit when put into the context of your no-lynch post. You ask to no-lynch, then later you make a post saying Palmar is scum, which is fine, because you can change your mind, but your analysis is all based on stuff Palmar did before your no-lynch post, so if you found it to be so scummy, why didn't it strike you before? So, to me, it looks like you made your no-lynch post, got shut down, then went back and looked for someone to make a case on. What gives? well a lot of people have been getting worked up about this post. Yes its stupid but is it something a town wiggles could say? On December 21 2012 01:00 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 00:58 Palmar wrote:
Clearly he's making more effort than Wiggles though, amirite iamperf? i know more about debars than i know wiggles. Wiggles looks like he is just being super stupid to me. i don't know what to think of him Alright, let's go over this scenario: You are town iamp. You can 1) Try your hardest to get your certain scumread lynched 2) go with a lynch on someone you aren't sure about Which do you do? Number 1) What did Iamp do? Number 2) Iamp disappeared (shown in spoiler below). He did not stay around and push his scumread that he was certain about over a read that he was unsure about. That is not a townie mindset set at all+ Show Spoiler +On December 21 2012 01:42 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 01:34 debears wrote:
Iamp is scum his case is a total misrepresentation of my play.
I will not stand for thi shit. Ill go over it in more detail when I'm back home later today is yamato scum to because he agrees with me. maybe everyone who accuses debars is scum whatever dude you gone full retard. On December 21 2012 04:57 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 04:35 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Also, are people actually planning on being around before the lynch, or can I look forward to talking to myself for 5 hours? im always around lynch time. which if someone could covert to est i would appreciate. On December 21 2012 07:32 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 07:29 debears wrote:On December 21 2012 06:37 Toadesstern wrote:
Noone's shooting Zelblade.
If we have a vig that vig shoots debears 100%. Anything else and I'll slap people postgame. You never shoot an active, out in the spotlight player that you can make a read off of as a vig You shoot unreadables And you think I'm town and you want me shot You and iamp are scum just stop Was Iamp around during critical lynch time to push his lynch on his certain scumread? No. Did he even bother to make a read on Wiggles or contribute to the wiggles' lynch all day 1? No. He is scum Waited so long to vote after saying multiple times Wiggles was scummy. Waited for others to vote then immediately voted Let me show you the cadence of the votes right before Morb + Show Spoiler +On December 21 2012 02:36 Toadesstern wrote:From OP: Show nested quote +This game will use a simple plurality lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. In the event of a tie, the person to reach that number of votes first will be lynched. So we don't need to have 50%+ but yeah getting a bunch of votes on the same guy is still what we want to do to make it hard to manipulate things. That being said I'm most likely going to vote Wiggles today and trust in Palmar. Yes it's a weird statement and I get that most people will probably consider it a scummy statement but I think that's what is best for today. I said that I'm not sure about Palmar earlier but he looks better than Wiggles and WBG and the only VET other than those 3 left in this game is me :p And well my town game isn't known for being good but mostly for being erratic resultwise. I either stomp mafias and get 70-90% mafia reads correct by the end of d1/d2 or d3 the latest like I did in L, WoF, that abomination of a game that had a shitton of players in it where I killed half of the mafias that ended up dead myself or the last time I played with WBG when he was mafia... don't remember the name OR I'm completly retarded, hurting town like I'm mafias MVP by shooting 3 townies as the Joker in BC's game, as the mason in whatever the name of that was and so on. There's really nothing inbetween. I'm either going to be a hero, a shining beacon of towns mafiahunting abilities or a total disaster. I'd rather see which one it is before I lead a lynch on d1 this time around :p sooooo, long story short: ##unvote
##vote WigglesIn Palmar we trust! On December 21 2012 03:02 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 02:17 yamato77 wrote:
PSA: All town members need to make a post very soon stating where they stand on who is going to be lynched. Your options seem to be Bugs, Wiggles, Debears, and Zelblade, looking at the vote counts and recent behavior. We need to make a consolidation effort. Get some thoughts out there and discuss. bugsI'm not interested in lynching bugs today. I haven't spent a lot of time trying to read him, but basically I just don't see how anything he's done is definitively indicative of him being scum bugs as opposed to town bugs. zelbladeI'm leaning scum on zelblade, but I'm not as confident on him as I am on debears or Wiggles. I agree with bugs that his post about eywa is scummy, but I feel like there is more overall evidence against debears and Wiggles, each of whom have several posts which I think are scummy. I want to see more from zelblade. debearsI think debears would be a good lynch today and I think there's a reasonably good chance that he'd flip scum. I already detailed why I'm suspicious of him, and I agree with some of iamperfection's case, namely the part about tunneling Toad. @iamperfection About "not being engaged" I think this is a better reason to lynch Wiggles than to lynch debears. Maybe debears doesn't have 10 pages in his filter, but he has been really pushing hard on Toad and now you. I disagree with his conclusions, but I can at least see the possible town motivation for what he's been doing (if he strongly feels that Toad and you are scum). WigglesI think Wiggles is most likely to flip scum. I see a lot more scum motivation than town motivation for his post about Eywa and huge delay before giving scumreads. Also, as pointed about by yamato, it is convenient that his top scumread turns out to be zelblade. I don't like all the posts he has made this game where he pushes no reads whatsoever. He spends a lot of time in the beginning of the game goofing around, in the middle of the day unproductively bantering about people, and toward the end of the day talking about why "Palmar can't be trusted". Overall, debears does a better job convincing me that he is actually trying to find scum. I think you guys should all look at Wiggles's filter, and see how little scumhunting he's done this game. I think he's our best lynch, and I think he's more likely to flip scum than not. Please strongly consider voting him with me. ##Vote Mr. Wiggles On December 21 2012 03:12 Morbidius wrote:
I'm way more confident in a wiggles lynch right now his posts have been very scummy while my suspicion over my other reads have weakened. He has been shooting accusations at everyone and hoping one of them works. Also his ''case'' on palmar is the dumbest thing i've read so far.
##unvote
##vote Mr. Wiggles Look at the timestamps. Those three votes are made one after the other http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17303299Now, look at the rest of Morb's filter. He says multiple times that he finds Wiggles scummy, yet he doesn't want to vote Wiggles until everyone else does. And when they do, he does it in a snap reactionOn December 21 2012 01:21 Morbidius wrote:
Vote count please?
I got a slightly scum vibe from Wiggles and i do think a day 1 lynch is better than no lynch. Morb fits the mold of a scum too weak to fight the lynch. He agreed that Wiggle's looked scummy most of the day, yet he didn't put his vote where his posts were until 4 others did so. He also did it immediately after. That is scummy as shit is pretty important. it's the last read of Toad that debears posted. If he states that Toad is town, then that means he doesn't have an intention of pushing him/lynching him the next day. Imagine if debears is scum. Then, he's going to try to shoot someone who is not likely to get protected and at the same time is mostly agreed-upon to be town. That person was easily Toad, since Palmar was more likely to be protected. My theory of debears being town because he wouldn't push then kill the same guy is now total shit because I completely forgot the fact that he made this post. This makes sense in the context of the rest of his posts. I never found the rest of anything he was saying to be convincingly town-like, and I automatically put him at "leaning town" because of his activity (and not "probable town" because he reacted really weirdly to vivax's VT claim-kenpachi rule) Now when I notice that he's literally the only person shedding doubt on my RB claim, and also that he had an aversion to lynching Wiggles AND an aversion to lynching stutters, it makes more sense that he is scum rather than town. This also conveniently makes my earlier read on eywa make more sense. Early on I had him as town, So, yeah, I'm dumb, I think debears is scum. I'm still more confident in stutters, On December 23 2012 06:28 Palmar wrote:
One thing in bugs's spreadsheet, the fact that Toad found the need to comment on vivax's future creditability is actually a thought I had myself, but I never quite thought Toad was scum, just kept him kinda null-ish mostly because of that comment.
I guess we just lynch debears then.
##Unvote Wherebugsgo
##Vote debears
saying he is confirmed town because of the claimed a roleblock
I don't buy this at all. I think that withholding a roleblock as scum and claiming it himself is definitely something a smart scum might do to try to avoid suspicion. The scumteam did not know who any of the power roles were N1, so it wasn't like they had any particularly great roleblock option.
IMO, the best evidence that bugs is town is the effort he is putting into this game. Between his spreadsheet, numerous posts, research on zelblade and now stutters, bugs has clearly been putting a lot of time into this game, which is one that scum is losing.
But, overall, I am suspicious of bugs for the bolded points above. I find him second-most suspicious after Eywa.
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On December 28 2012 01:33 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 00:04 Stutters695 wrote:
Phone post so bear with me, I'm on my way to work. Again you're taking me out of context. If you didn't modify that quote to remove the nested ones it was blatantly obvious debears and I were talking about my questions to you, Palmar and Wiggles. The other two were obviously Palmar and Wiggles, but you'd know that if you actually read my posts.
It isn't obvious what "the other two were" and that's what makes it obvious you can't express yourself properly. I was actually expecting that you were talking about "the other two" (QUESTIONS), not players. Sorry if I can't read your mind bro.
Once again, you're completely missing the point. For reference the quote (with nested quotes) is posted in this spoiler + Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 13:57 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 13:29 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 12:26 Stutters695 wrote:On December 19 2012 11:10 Toadesstern wrote:
sup guys
I won't believe any claim Vivax does in the future if he happens to claim something at some point and I'd say we stick with it that way. Yeah millers should claim but claiming VT (read: as in the ROLE, not the alignment) is retarded. Looks awfully set-up. Not alignment indicating at all because he's either a mafia or a townie trying to achieve something like doding or catching a bullet through confusion.
Just saying, see you tomorrow. I'd need to go through his previous games to see how I'd feel if he claimed but I'll deal with that if he claims in the future. Not sure how I feel about writing something like that off this early. @vivax why claim vt so early? What are you hoping to achieve for the town by doing that? @Mr Wiggles why the vote on wbg in the first few hours before we even know if he's seen the thread? Is there some joke or strategy related to wbg I don't know about? Palmar if you've read the thread you'd see that millers are self-aware. What's the confusion about? ##unvote
##vote stuttersYou're questions to vivax and palmat have already been asked. You're question to wiggles has come way after and its obvious it was a random vote (I'm not sure whether wiggles mentioned it in pregame). You sir are trying to look like you are contributing withiut actually doing so Right, because in three posts you can tell exactly how much I'm contributing? No one has asked Vivax why he posted it directly. The only thing even really related to it is a comment about a Kenpachi trap(whatever that is) and your vote and him responding with "maybe later." I can assume why he did that, but I want to hear what he says. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. The other two are my fault, posting from a phone is a bitch, much harder to double check when I post. Let's talk about someone who hasn't been contributing through their posts though. Morbidius: If you think Yamato scumslipped, why haven't you said anything about it since calling it a scumslip? That's a pretty major accusation to throw out considering he's still the only miller. What changed, why aren't you pushing that at all?
Again, if you read the quote in context you'd see that debears makes 3 points. 1) questions to you have been asked/answered already. 2)Question to palmar has been asked 3)Wiggles vote was obviously a joke. If you had read my quote and the nested quotes, it should have been glaringly obvious that I was saying I didn't think your answers were satisfactory and the things relating to Palmar and Wiggles ("the other two") I had just missed.
What I'm saying is that you're doing this on purpose to make me appear scummier through quotes that made perfect sense if you didn't remove the context from debears' quote.
Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 00:04 Stutters695 wrote:
Again, you're misrepresenting my case against you too. It isn't that you posted a read on Wiggles, not was my vote on Wiggles anything but to avoid a modkill. I'll be the first one to tell you I was mostly inactive d1&2. You're scummy because you continually are pushing cases on me (by all accounts an easy lynch until last night when I actually started having time to post) with quotes taken out of context that aren't trueto what you're claiming.
I'm scummy cause I'm continuously pushing cases on scummy players? Where the hell did you learn to play mafia. Speaking of quotes, where have the reads you've promised been when you announced them? Why did you vote for Wiggles when you apparently posted to avoid modkill? Why not vote for me or Morb during the ongoing bandwagon, but finding us scummy before and after?
You're pushing cases on me under false pretenses. That's why you're scummy. My d1/d2 play was pretty bad and you could have made a legitimate argument for me being scum. Of course I'd know you're wrong, but that wouldn't make you scummy. I'd actually consider you more town for it.
Hell, if other people want to read over this interaction and feel that I'm being ambiguous I'd even consider giving you the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think that will happen because I think you're doing it on purpose.
Again, I voted for Wiggles because he was obviously the lynch candidate of choice and I needed to vote before the deadline.
I didn't vote for either of you because I didn't have time to go through your filters and see how scummy I thought you actually were. If I had the time I would have like I'm doing today.
Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 00:04 Stutters695 wrote:
Back to your vote on Wiggles though, it isn't that you voted him, it's that you claimed you wrote a post about it then just didn't post it. What purpose does withholding that info serve? Scared we might get a read on you? Seems more likely each post you make.
I knew it would be useless to point out extensively what was scummy about him. CAUSE HE WAS GOING TO GET LYNCHED ANYWAY. I held my promise, as opposed to you, not caring about the consequences. Too bad, cause he fucking flipped red and tainted me with it. That's cause if I didn't give a flying fuck about Wiggles and just kept my mouth shut, I wouldn't look scummy for it, but I would be just one of more liars (=you), and we want to keep the amount of liars here to a minimum cause if town starts lying we can't filter out the scum. Palmar judges me based on the amount of posts, you judge me based on me not having lied, how stupid can it get. I should probably start splitting my posts into smaller parts so Parlar starts looking at the right places herp derp, and I should lie to town instead of looking like I was bussing. Look at that Wiggles post. You think I would be THAT stupid to post something like that as mafia, knowing he would flip red? I made myself a comfortable target to push cause I actually delivered what I promised. As mafia I'd have been better off not saying anything and then claim I was busy, a la stutters.
Lying has nothing to do with it. What I don't understand is if you had "written quite a bit" why you didn't post it along with your vote? Everyone on the Wiggles train except me had voted by the time you promised to look into it. So you promised to check out Wiggles, say "don't expect a lengthy case," then say you wrote a lengthy case but it wasn't worth posting?
+ Show Spoiler [quotes in question] +On December 21 2012 06:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 04:02 yamato77 wrote:On December 21 2012 03:59 Vivax wrote:
@ Morbidius
One question first:
How many games do you have on your shoulders?
##Unvote
##Vote Morbidius YOU look like the person jumping on a wagon. I don't know, maybe Wiggles and debears were on to something. If you are town you sure are trying to look like scum. Sorry for being scummy for calling out scummy play. There are 3 players out there being lurky and hard to read (stutters, Bugs, . I'm getting shat on by you for trying to make them post more, cause there are smartasses like you who think one should simply join the earliest wagon available and ignore everything else. You will soon find out I'm not your type of player, writing useless summary posts no one is going to comment on, like this one: Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 02:17 yamato77 wrote:
PSA: All town members need to make a post very soon stating where they stand on who is going to be lynched. Your options seem to be Bugs, Wiggles, Debears, and Zelblade, looking at the vote counts and recent behavior. We need to make a consolidation effort. Get some thoughts out there and discuss. Now say to my face that this post has ANY use whatsoever for scumhunting. Anyway, I'll take a look at this Wiggles bandwagon and try to decide who to drop my vote on. It was my last uni day before Christmas and I'm fucking tired, so don't expect some lengthy analysis on my choice.This Saturday I'll be travelling to Austria, so I will post less, if not anything at all during that day. On December 21 2012 08:25 Vivax wrote:
I've promised you a read on Wiggles, I've written quite a bit, but I don't even see the point in posting it since he's going to get lynched anyway.
I'll give you a tl;dr instead:
He first called out Eywa on his post on Palmar, then agreed with it.
He buddies WBG by agreeing on zelblade and defending him against me.
He starts throwing shit at the people voting for him.
The first point is pretty scummy since he's agreeing on a view he expressed suspicion against before, the other two are null, but bad play imo. I don't like buddying, and discrediting the people voting for you doesn't get you anywhere.
I'm voting for the sake of consolidation, I still think Morbidius is more scummy, if anyone would be so kind to actually force him to answer my question since he's feeling comfortable to avoid it while throwing shit at me?
##Unvote
##Vote MrWiggles
I don't buy it.
Going to go over interactions after this, but I just saw this gem on the ride home.
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on Vivax
As I explained on D2 (see spoiler), I thought Vivax was town after D1 due to his activity and abrasiveness typical of town Vivax. Since then, however, I've found several reasons to be suspicious of him.
vote on Wiggles
As explained by several other people, this was suspicious. I think Stutters made a good point that it is odd that Vivax would not post what he had already typed out on Wiggles.
believed Morbidius's claim so easily
I find this suspicious just like I thought bugs's reaction was suspicous. Vivax, like bugs, tends to be very sure of himself. He made several posts indicating that he strongly felt Morbidius was scum:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 21 2012 03:46 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 03:44 Morbidius wrote:On December 21 2012 03:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2012 03:12 Morbidius wrote:
I'm way more confident in a wiggles lynch right now his posts have been very scummy while my suspicion over my other reads have weakened. He has been shooting accusations at everyone and hoping one of them works. Also his ''case'' on palmar is the dumbest thing i've read so far.
##unvote
##vote Mr. Wiggles The fuck is this? Some of these posts are shady as fuck. Particularly this one. The fact you're still playing offensively and accusing people after people unvote you is kinda refreshing. Lol what kind of logic is this?So when a scumread of yours unvotes you, you think it's suddenly a townie? On December 21 2012 03:57 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 01:21 Morbidius wrote:
Vote count please?
I got a slightly scum vibe from Wiggles and i do think a day 1 lynch is better than no lynch. Lol look at this gem. Just before voting for him NOTHING changed about Wiggles, yet he only finds a reason to vote for him when two other people do the same. It's SO obvious he was just waiting for a bandwagon to drop his vote on. Going to dinner. Brb in more or less 2 hours. On December 21 2012 03:59 Vivax wrote:
@ Morbidius
One question first:
How many games do you have on your shoulders?
##Unvote
##Vote Morbidius On December 21 2012 08:25 Vivax wrote:
I've promised you a read on Wiggles, I've written quite a bit, but I don't even see the point in posting it since he's going to get lynched anyway.
I'll give you a tl;dr instead:
He first called out Eywa on his post on Palmar, then agreed with it.
He buddies WBG by agreeing on zelblade and defending him against me.
He starts throwing shit at the people voting for him.
The first point is pretty scummy since he's agreeing on a view he expressed suspicion against before, the other two are null, but bad play imo. I don't like buddying, and discrediting the people voting for you doesn't get you anywhere.
I'm voting for the sake of consolidation, I still think Morbidius is more scummy, if anyone would be so kind to actually force him to answer my question since he's feeling comfortable to avoid it while throwing shit at me?
##Unvote
##Vote MrWiggles On December 21 2012 23:42 Vivax wrote:I'm reading backwards and am currently at page 28, I'm wondering why no one is noticing Morbidius strange posting. From last to first: Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 09:56 Morbidius wrote:
I'd like to ask for everyone's opinion on Eywa. Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 11:01 Morbidius wrote:
Some thoughts so far:
Problably town:
Sciberbia
Palmar
leaning town:
Yamato
Vivax
WBG
Leaning scum:
Stutters
Debears
I need more time to make reads on the ones i didn't mention. Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 08:10 Morbidius wrote:
If wiggles is town(which is hard) vigi should feel free to shoot vivax. Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 03:44 Morbidius wrote:On December 21 2012 03:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2012 03:12 Morbidius wrote:
I'm way more confident in a wiggles lynch right now his posts have been very scummy while my suspicion over my other reads have weakened. He has been shooting accusations at everyone and hoping one of them works. Also his ''case'' on palmar is the dumbest thing i've read so far.
##unvote
##vote Mr. Wiggles The fuck is this? Some of these posts are shady as fuck. Particularly this one. The fact you're still playing offensively and accusing people after people unvote you is kinda refreshing. His weird action of voting just after sciberbia and Toad did to which he never answered. Or the post right up there, where he implies that one shouldn't suspect people when they unvote you, where he also avoided me calling him out on it. What catches my attention the most is the second last post where he says vig should shoot me, it gives me the feeling that he knew about Wiggles' alignment, and implying that I'd have been scum if he flipped town (which I don't understand at all) he now found the reason to put me into his "slightly town" category of a list, I believe that's cause he realized he wouldn't be able to push a lynch on me and needed an excuse to retreat from it. I didn't read properly into the Toad/deb/Iamp triad yet, but it looks to me like there might be a lot of OMGUS involved. I remember deb voting for both of them before this shitstorm started.
However, he never questioned the cop claim at all. Feels off.
Ended up null on bugs D2
on D1, Vivax was all over bugs. See these quotes:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 04:26 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 21:03 Palmar wrote:
In return, I'm willing to extend the invitation for anyone in the thread to challenge me to analyse any player's alignment based on their posting so far. Obviously I cannot write a lengthy analysis on everyone in the game, so the first 2 suggested I will check out. If your offer is still valid, I'd enjoy if you took a closer look at stutters (for my post) and sciberbia (for not showing up since he wrote his case), also, Bugs instareading sciberbia as town was quite suspicious play. He didn't even give a fuck about what he wrote. And speaking of Bugs, I'm in for lynching him for shitting up the thread with his massive quotations and throwing around brainless votes. He's just causing confusion and refusing to cooperate. Still, do me a favour and take a look at my case :>. ##Unvote ##Vote Wherebugsgo On December 20 2012 05:23 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote:
This is possibly the dumbest vote I've seen in a long time. That's cause you didn't look at your own filter. Care to explain your latest developments? Morbidius, Zelblade? Posting one line each 10 lines quoted?Never getting something useful out of them but keeping to shit on other people when they try to scumhunt? You're a disappointment, and a scum . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . player. On December 20 2012 05:27 Vivax wrote:
Palmar, screw the read on sciberbia, I need you on Bugs. This isn't the bugs I saw last game. This bugs looks like a bugs who didn't pass his finals. But since he's the smartest of all of us he did pass them and is actually scum. On December 20 2012 05:51 Vivax wrote:
Fun game my ass.
That case could be called
CTRL-C CTRL-V spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler; oh look he's scum, also, you're dumb.
Then he speaks of a town read on scruburbia and immediately calls it back in the next post.
Don't be fooled by this useless bs. Zelblade could have posted this meta on his own.
I only see that his first post about Zel was about him suspecting Eywa, and that bugs suddenly makes a case on him based on some meta he doesn't even care to explain.
In summary, vivax thinks bugs's posts suck, vivax calls bugs scum twice, and vivax asks Palmar for a read on bugs. Then, on D2, Palmar votes bugs and makes it clear that he is suspicious of bugs.
I expected Vivax to take that as a sign that he was right. But instead he completely backed off to null, and said he needed to research bugs's meta in order to make a read. This is really inconsistent with his D1 read on bugs.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 24 2012 08:21 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 07:50 yamato77 wrote:
Vivax what do you think about bugs being scum? I've been trying to make a read for the last 10 minutes. But I'm pretty fucking null. Him ranting so much and posting so cryptically might be bad for town, he agreed on scum Wiggles with Palmar but I didn't find the vote in his filter. He switched from debears town to debears scum shortly before debears claimed vig. He wanted to kill Morbidius during and after the night, but so did I. I will estimate his interactions with debears and the roleblock after the flip. I also never played against a scum bugs, if you could link me some of his games as mafia I will include meta in my estimation.
@Vivax
Could you explain what made you go from "bugs is scum" on D1 to "null on bugs" on D2?
not claiming the roleblock immediately on D3
I think this series of posts is suspicious:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 25 2012 08:20 Palmar wrote:
I shot vivax I think On December 25 2012 08:32 Keirathi wrote:
Day 3
iamperfection, the Jailkeeper, was killed.
On December 25 2012 08:38 Vivax wrote:
I'll need some time to figure out what happened tonight.
Also, Palmar sucks. I am town. On December 25 2012 08:56 sciberbia wrote:
Have all roleblock PM's been sent?
@Vivax
Were you roleblocked last night? On December 25 2012 08:59 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2012 08:56 sciberbia wrote:
Have all roleblock PM's been sent?
@Vivax
Were you roleblocked last night? Yes. On December 25 2012 09:01 Vivax wrote:
Yeah, I saw the PM after I posted, and I don't see how Palmar can be scum at this point since scum can't have a vig.
Probably going to get lynched just for telling it so late. But w/e, my bad.
I'm probably the guy who has been jailed.
Feels good to know I'm being judged on the amount of posts though. Last game I've been called disruptive by Palmar for my playstyle, this game I'm scummy for not playing it.
But we had two roleblocks last night, so this isn't the end of the story I guess.
Anyone else been roleblocked?
I think Vivax might have been lying about seeing the PM after he posted. I still don't really understand why he said "I'll need some time to figure out what happened tonight". I think it's possible that he is scum, was roleblocked, and was considering lying about it. He also showed a guilty conscience by saying "Probably going to get lynched just for telling it so late. But w/e, my bad."
Overall, I find Vivax suspicious. I need to look into Stutters more, but I think that the last two scum are between Eywa, bugs, and Vivax.
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actually the late roleblock claim is probably the strongest reason for believing vivax is scum. I didn't notice that.
gonna reread a bit.
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Unofficial votecount (somebody should probably double-check):
Eywa- (0) -
wherebugsgo (3) - yamato77, Morbidius, Promethelax
Stutters695 (2) - wherebugsgo, Vivax
Vivax (2) - Palmar, Stutters695
Not Voting: sciberbia, Eywa-
Did everyone really unvote Eywa? If he is out of the question, then my vote will be on either bugs or vivax. Going to reread more.
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I'm just gonna sheep sciberbia, he's clearly the best player in the game. Eywa you say? Let's do it.
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I'm sheeping you sciberbia, I'll be back in an hour to vote whatever you tell me to.
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Vote Count
wherebugsgo (3) - yamato77, Morbidius, Promethelax
Stutters695 (2) - wherebugsgo, Vivax
Vivax (2) - Palmar, Stutters695
Not Voting: Eywa-, sciberbia
Day ends in ~2.5 hours. wherebugsgo is currently set to be lynched
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On December 28 2012 02:01 Palmar wrote:
For example, at face value Eywa- + stutters is not a viable scum team because Stutters has been trying to kill Eywa- for a while and then delivered upon it today.
Vivax+Stutters would be quite weird, you'd agree?
So... stutters+prom? or stutters+scib? what's your theory here?
If Eywa- was on your team and was playing this way would you do anything but bus him? The only proper scum play here is to bus the shit out of this idiot if he is scum.
On December 28 2012 02:37 Keirathi wrote:Important Service Announcement:
Please ignore all c9++ related setup speculation. I found a bug in my generator program. Just play mafia and forget that its suppposed to be c9++.
Keir! Why you do this to me? I'm going to have to smack you with a fish when this game is over. Grrr!
On December 28 2012 04:24 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 17:36 Promethelax wrote:
I looked at it and realized how bad a Bugs we've seen and, while it is possible that we have that terrible a town Bugs it make more sense for Bugs to be scum than it does for Bugs to be town. This has been true for the whole game.
What changed is that I decided pressuring Bugs to do something townie and useful would be a much better use of my vote than leaving it on Eywa- and I am not unwilling to lynch Bugs if he doesn't respond to the pressure of being on the chopping block. It also helped that the people voting for Bugs are all town. Look at this post for a second. What does this reveal about Promethelax' mindset in regards to this lynch? He admits here that the vote is a pressure vote and gives bugs an out, which means the only reason he is actually putting his vote here is because he wants to look more townie by agreeing with people that are town. He isn't any more convinced of Bugs' guilt than he was before, which is what I suspected when I saw him switch his vote with such little explanation. He just discovered that the timing might be right to switch his vote, admonish bugs, and look more townie for it. Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 14:47 Promethelax wrote:
Morb, sorry you think I'm dumb. Doing what I do best. If you want to check my past games feel free to check my profile, they are all there. My own self evaluation would put me as a middle of the pack player whose strengths lay towards proving himself townie over finding scum. Others may disagree. That post combined with this one give us an insight into how Promethelax wants to be seen. Here he admits he isn't a good scumhunter but that his strengths lie in "looking townie". Well, it just so happens that scum want to focus on looking townie, too. This combined with his choice of target for scum hunting the majority of this game immediately make me feel less confident about the real intentions of our dear friend Promethelax. I would theorize a possible Vivax/Promethelax scum team if bugs is indeed townie.
Yam, I know you want to tunnel me, being a paranoid fool is a good thing. You are wrong though. I do want to give Bugs an out, I don't find him as scummy as I find Eywa- I wanted him to contribute more and he has done it. He has scum reads and reasons for them and while Palmar thinks they are bad Palmar is wrong, while bugs has not been the towniest guy in this game he is more townie than Eywa-. The only reason not to vote Eywa- now is to play to the modkill and I hate playing to the modkill.
##Unvote
##Vote Eywa-
As to the post you quoted from me to Morb is 100% how I see myself. Go look at my past games, I rarely catch scum but I am always in people's confirmed town lists despite themselves. In ACME Acro tunneled me forever and ended up having me as his strongest town read. In CT Syllo tunneled me forever and I ended up being in his town column even though he never wanted me to be. My strength is in being town, not in finding scum.
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EPT
