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On November 24 2012 00:16 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:43 Djodref wrote:
I might have sounded angry but I honestly think that this sandroba wagon is pretty stupid. Nobody really brings an original argument and is sheeping syllo ">50% chance that sandro is mafia" and/or basically lynching a lurker with contributions.
It's the perfect situation for the mafia to mislynch sandro if he is town, not contribute, blend in. I don't like how this D2 starts at all.
For example, risk.nuke dropping in the thread and casting his vote against sandro with his "waiting for sandro to participate to switch my vote to ..." without even giving any alternatives. Fuck this kind of attitude !
FoS risk.nuke "without giving any alternatives"... Do you understand that bringing up alternatives would completely contradict the very reason I parked my vote on sandroba. The point was to build pressure to force him into activity. Saying, I'm parking my vote on sandroba but if he doesn't show up I'm going to vote this guy is just... dumb doesn't even suffice.
@risk.nuke
Well, obviously it didn't work because sandro is supposedly sleeping now. What do you plan to do now ?
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I've read through sand's filter and I'm not content to lynch him today. I would like to see him scumhunt, but he called half the party early in the day
On November 21 2012 17:00 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 15:59 syllogism wrote:
Sandro who do you think is [most likely to be] town so far? I'll do better and give you 2 I have a pretty good town read on: Diodude and oatsmaster. @Djoref I'll try to put in an effort and explain my reads properly when the time comes, but I'm gonna wait a little more before I do that.
'When the time comes' would most likely have been when he was close to being elected leader. However, his activity dropped and we shifted to syllo.
On November 22 2012 17:26 sandroba wrote:
@syllo that was me quickly reading through the thread and answering stuff after going out. I ignored your mafia question because honestly I'm not putting too much thought into it. When I can't acertain the dude is town I pretty much dismiss it till later, since so far we can't really do much about it. I'm kinda hurt that you think there is a >50% chance that I'm mafia. </3
On this, I feel syllo is best suited to legitimately make the case against sandroba today, but given that we wanted a town-party, I don't find his reluctance to give reads that scummy. I don't see big mafia motive behind sand's actions thus far. His proposed party is consistent:
On November 22 2012 17:29 sandroba wrote:
I'll probably be taking oats/die/kush (if he doesnt die).
kush ended up dying and we didn't hear much more from sand on the topic, but the fact remains, he picked 2 members of the party quite early.
On November 22 2012 17:38 sandroba wrote:
@gk from what he claimed marv needs to have less than 30 hp for him to die? Well I'd rather just wait then think about it. It's pretty lucky that I can get those 3 tbh, that would be ideal imo.
This was the only post that jumped out at me as completely useless filler reading through his filter. It doesn't really do anything to further a read, and doesn't really think through the likelyhood of kush dying. It'll stick in the back of my mind, but I don't want to lynch over 1 trivial post and a lack of activity.
I need to go find someone I do want to lynch.
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I plan on waiting until he wakes up.. The cycle ends in 36 hours, there still is plenty of time to go.
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Can everyone get over the fact that sand has been inactive and just gave a weird excuse and read his filter and my case, please?
This goes especially for the people sheeping without giving reasons other than him going inactive.
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On November 24 2012 00:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
I plan on waiting until he wakes up.. The cycle ends in 36 hours, there still is plenty of time to go.
@Oats
I'd prefer you to try to find other mafia players until he wakes up. Any comments you want to make on my case against TheChronicler ?
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Hopeless, how does predicting the party show his alignment?
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On November 24 2012 00:52 Clarity_nl wrote:
Can everyone get over the fact that sand has been inactive and just gave a weird excuse and read his filter and my case, please?
This goes especially for the people sheeping without giving reasons other than him going inactive.
Wait, I'm doing that thing where I care more about the method than the result again, aren't I?
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On November 24 2012 00:53 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 00:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
I plan on waiting until he wakes up.. The cycle ends in 36 hours, there still is plenty of time to go. @OatsI'd prefer you to try to find other mafia players until he wakes up. Any comments you want to make on my case against TheChronicler ?
I actually prefer to sleep, which I am going to do after I read your case again.
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@goodkarma
On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote:
*snip*
2) Djo: I can't say that I have a very strong read on him, but I'm leaning towards town. He has proposed his own ideas for how to run an election. A scum could be just as forthcoming, however. Beyond that, I have to go off of his reads: he doesn't trust acro and prox, and thinks oats is town. I am in general agreement there. Definitely my weakest read.
*snip*
On November 22 2012 21:49 goodkarma wrote:
Okay, I have finalized my team. It will be of an unusual composition (of the semi-lurker variety). Since mafia needs to influence party compositions in this game it is to their advantage to be proactive and not lurking. As such, I have chosen those I see as both pro-town and semi-lurking. These individuals I feel have been semi-lurking while contributing genuinely to the thread their own thoughts and opinions about the current game mechanics and other players. These are currently my strongest town reads.:
In no particular order:
1) Djo
2) phagga
3) dieno (only because dieno has made a role-claim I am inclined to cautiously believe...)
I will be around the next thirty minutes, and will review the thread briefly afterwards in about six hours. Please discuss any thoughts or concerns you have of these players before then.
@goodkarma
Can I ask you for more detailed reasons for your previous town read on me ? How did this read evolve ?
Was I really one of your top 3 townreads at that time ? How could you take someone on your party with only a weak read on him ?
I have some difficulties to believe this because we have never played together and I usually come off as scummy at first sight. I didn't pay too much attention to it the first time because I was kind of proud that you picked me 
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On November 23 2012 22:44 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote:
Who I would nominate (if not myself):
As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba.
Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv).
I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced.
Goodkarma for President:
As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time. Before I actually get going properly on GK's filter there is a question that is still bugging me. GK: why did you want to run for party leader?
On November 22 2012 22:30 goodkarma wrote:
For all those who are still distrustful of me:
You are certainly entitled to distrust me. I spent a good portion of the opening of this game discussing mechanics and not really so much reads. However, I would like to point out that I have since then:
1) Established a system of greater transparency for who is selected. It is very likely all we'd discuss is party leader, and not the corresponding parties, if I hadn't stepped in. Further, I have shown exactly why this is the best approach...
2) I have been proactive about demonstrating exactly why it is I have chosen who I have and my line of reasoning. Further, I have been (and continue to be) willing to change my platform if compelling evidence can be brought to my attention that a candidate is a weak choice.
3) The only reason I have pursued a party leader position this cycle is that the alternatives I feel at this point do not have trustworthy platforms. I am not trusting of Kita, nor at this point am I content with sending sandroba.
4) I have actually been active this game... If you were to look at any of my scum games, you would notice that I am not nearly this proactive when I play scum. You have discussed prior how it would be absolutely great if we had a candidate that had an easily recognizable town vs. scum game. Well, your welcome.
I will not be submitting my party until I leave for Thanksgiving lunch/dinner late tomorrow morning. I look forward to hearing your opinions on my party, and replying to them in a few hours. But until then, I'm getting a few hours' rest.
You can add to that dissatisfaction with syllo's decision to not discuss who was in his party. If you're wandering why that bothered me so much, I could quote more stuff from my filter I guess... -_-
Tbh, I've done my best to be very transparent in my reasoning behind my decisions. Most questions you bring up about motives for playing as I have I am quite confident that you will find the answers to in my filter.
On November 23 2012 22:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:51 Acrofales wrote:
I was going to put some examples here, but I have a better idea that will let me figure out more about the unique capabilities of our squiggly line drawer :D
@Dienosore: I am starting to agree with you on the strangeness of some of GK's posts. However, I want you to explain a bit better what in GK's posts reads as contrived. We can compare notes afterwards. We will then use our combined powers to ascertain whether he is scum or not!
@everybody else: go ahead and do the same, but please let Dieno answer the question first. It was him who first mentioned this stuff.
Ok, but for what it's worth (something Dino won't know) BC and DrH pegged goodkarma as scum in... Palmar's normal (LVII?) for making a post that looked way too constructed. I had a look at gk's filter in his town game in newbie XXIV before I made my post earlier, and I didn't feel quite so certainly about it as I thought I would have. XXIV is on the front page if you wanna have a look yourself.
I definitely managed to push town to victory in NMM XXIV, but I would be the first to admit my early play that game was a bit weaker. This is an area I am still refining. I would say my strength as a town player comes in after a few days of play, being able to assess via a process of elimination-type approach who scum is. Doesn't really help any for showing I'm town this game, but at the very least you should find that there is some consistency between how I played that game and this one as town. I would hope I'm improving, but feel free to meta-analyze me based off one data point if you wish.
A few more questions/comments I'd still like to address. I'm going to break this post up a bit so that those who are actively looking through my filter have a bit more to work with when getting a read on me.
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On November 24 2012 00:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hopeless, how does predicting the party show his alignment?
It doesn't, but it is definitely not scummy to me. He called out what I presume are two townies (event success) very early. That supposed ability is why he was a candidate in the first place, and he has lived up to that expectation in my eyes. Granted, he gave little in the way of reasoning, and it would be immensely easy to do so as mafia when you know which 'newbies' are town (or at least not mafia), but its still a point in his favor that his most recently proposed party (die/oats/kush) would likely have succeeded as well. (Man, Cyrus and Glenn in the same party? IMBA!)
On November 24 2012 00:56 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 00:52 Clarity_nl wrote:
Can everyone get over the fact that sand has been inactive and just gave a weird excuse and read his filter and my case, please?
This goes especially for the people sheeping without giving reasons other than him going inactive. Wait, I'm doing that thing where I care more about the method than the result again, aren't I?
A little bit, but I don't think you're wrong to insist we make a goddamn read for ourselves.
Your case on sand shows that he's not trying to win the election. His activity could be to blame for that.
-> He doesn't give strong or informed reads. Withholding reasons for a townread to me is not scummy until those same townreads become scumreads. If he continues to read a player as town, I'm fine with that. If they suddenly change to scum, only then do I feel I deserve to know his entire thought process. As a candidate for party leader, I can see why people would want his reads to be as transparent as possible, but I believe that winning the events is more important and I don't consider his 'not trying' to be scummy.
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GK how do you feel about Hapa's townread on you?
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Response to Djo's case on Chronicler
+ Show Spoiler +On November 23 2012 21:25 Djodref wrote:
TheChronicler
What is he trying to accomplish exactly ?
Part I --- His Plan
Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:
*snip*
I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses.
If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system.
We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:41 TheChronicler wrote:
*snip*
I don't want to be as unaccountable as possible. If you think it's a better idea then why not have it go leader chooses three > three choose 3 others, can't choose themselves. Leader will want to choose people who he has certain reads on, since he will want the event to succeed, and those three will want to choose someone they have a certain read on. We get information from all the choices, and avoid the problem where everyone will just choose themselves. He wants to get elected to prevent the election of a better known player whose alignment could be difficult to assess. His campaign is mainly based around his plan. I don't want to discuss if his plan is good or not. I want to discuss the purpose of his plan His plan doesn't help us to make sure that the event is going to succeed. His plan doesn't help us to catch scum (maybe it does, but I doubt it and TheChronicler failed to explain it to us in this case) His plan helps us to get information. The promised information is green and in bold font but he doesn't explain how this beautiful information is going to help the town. My conclusion is that he didn't really think through his plan in advance and made a plan for the sake of making a plan. The motivation for scum is to look townie. You can see here that he didn't really believe in his election. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:56 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 12:49 marvellosity wrote:
then we make sure we don't elect a scum person.
can't be that hard to make just one or two very likely town reads, no? ^^ I figured I'd add in a system that got us as much information as possible. I never expected to be elected since I'm on a smurf, but I really wanted my idea to be used because I think there's a good enough chance we don't get a townie elected (I've lynched enough townies d1 not to be overly confident in my d1 reads) You can see here that his obsession with information is faked because he goes after iamperfection when he gave a town read on Dieno. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 14:12 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 13:55 iamperfection wrote:On November 21 2012 13:54 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 13:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
Did not see the 'when'
sorry.
Also about the Keir thing with marv.
He said that if he did think marv was scum he wouldnt vote him
Then he said that he would have to be sure that marv was town to vote him.
They are the same in my opinion, Keir has the confidence that he will either have a town or scum read on marv by the end of the day, not a null read I think you're reading that wrong. Think marv is town = will vote Thinks marv is scum = will not vote Unsure of marv = will not vote You're not considering the possibility of #3 in your reasoning. You're saying Keir will have the confidence, but he hasn't said that at all. Following quote sums it up. On November 21 2012 13:22 Keirathi wrote:On November 21 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:@ KeiYou're right, he is capable of pulling off big plays as scum, even day 1. But it's not like I'm giving him a town read already, nor do I plan to vote him until I do. I'm paranoid as fuck when it comes to him, but again, I'm much more confident in my ability to read him than I am any of the other vets, purely because I am extremely familiar with how marv thinks and acts. Err... but you said... On November 21 2012 12:14 Keirathi wrote:
--Quote Pyramid Omitted--
I said I would vote marv, barring a scummy vibe from him. And, yes, I feel I have a decent grasp of when marv is acting scummy. The key is, though, that I thoroughly trust marv's ability to make town reads. In the event that he is scum, though, even a scum marv can't afford to pick other scum without some damn good reasoning that they are town, which I believe could be seen through. Do explain good sir. What is there to explain? Both of those things you bolded say the exact same thing :o ------------------------------------------ On November 21 2012 13:32 iamperfection wrote:
also by the way i have a town read on Dienosore no nooby scum gonna come in here like that. Is there a reason everyone feels the need to shout their town reads this game? ------------------------------------------- On November 21 2012 13:36 Hopeless1der wrote:Greetings all. You'll notice that we're currently in 600 AD Guardia. You're also playing a themed game hosted by none other than Greymist. Please keep that in mind. (Hi Mementoss, you're cool too). Basic vote mechanics for this game seem to boil down to -identify town -vote town to lead the party -Profit -Kill Mafia/Lavos -More Profit
What are people's thoughts on claiming that their character belongs to the 600 AD era and selecting the leader based on that. (YOU ONLY CLAIM "600 AD") Possibly selecting the entire party from within the era, assuming enough of a pool emerges. I linked Chronopedia above in case anyone feels the need to check it out. ~17ish native characters from 600 AD. I think our hidden numbers are influenced by the current era, and events can have varying degrees of success or failure depending on which specific players (not just town or scum) are in the party. Come play the setup speculation game with me please! How about we don't speculate on setup. What is speculating going to do? It's just an opportunity for scum to mislead us when they shouldn't have that opportunity. is it scummy to say what i think? It's anti-town to give scum information they can use. You just told scum your town read (assuming you're town). Now scum will value killing your town read higher than they would have. Way to go. WTF ? If we apply his plan, people are not supposed to choose other people according to their town reads ?! It's true that he didn't even say on what criteria you should choose people according to his plan but I guess we can safely assume it was based on town reads. But giving town reads is now anti-town ? I've showed that TheChronicler has made a "fake" plan to look like he is contributing and a concerned town player. He didn't think it through but the most important point is that he doesn't follow the logic of his plan, which shows that he doesn't really believe in it
Part II --- His vote on sylloTheChronicler voting syllo is totally incoherent with his story. In his campaign post, he proposes himself as an "unknown" player to counter the campaigns of the "known" players. Anyway, this is minor. Here TheChronicler states what kind of player he doesn't want for the town Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:48 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 12:47 marvellosity wrote:
TheChronicler, take a moment, sip a glass of wine, and ponder why every single person who has read your idea has thought it terrible.
It's either because you're a genius, transcended on a plane above any of us mere mortals, or your idea is bad. Alright, it's probably just bad. I just wanted to spread it out b/c I don't want to elect a scum person and have them controlling everything. I'm fine with this. I wouldn't expect him to vote syllo because of all his previous information rant, but if he does, if would expect him to seriously assess syllo alignment. Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:42 TheChronicler wrote:
I'm going to place my vote on syllo. Cave seems to be pushing syllo as someone who can't be elected because he's "taken himself out" when he's a very viable candidate. I'm driving to California, and won't be back in the thread for a good 12 hours. I will try to keep up with the thread on my phone, though. Just don't expect your questions to be answered until I get to my parents' place tonight. Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 03:50 TheChronicler wrote:
I don't think we should be going for a swap with 4 hours left. I'm happy with my vote on syllo. Wow, unexpected. Here I suspect TheChronicler to blend him by blindy voting for syllo.
Part III --- Blending in
You can find a lot of useless little remarks in TheChronicler filter. He doesn't interact by himself with the players with great town potential. Here are some remarks addressed to Oats and Dieno which function is only to add some lenght to his filter. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- *snip* Enters the thread with remarks for Oats and Clarity... Nitpicking in the new players filter, kinda lame... Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 14:12 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 13:55 iamperfection wrote:On November 21 2012 13:54 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 13:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
Did not see the 'when'
sorry.
Also about the Keir thing with marv.
He said that if he did think marv was scum he wouldnt vote him
Then he said that he would have to be sure that marv was town to vote him.
They are the same in my opinion, Keir has the confidence that he will either have a town or scum read on marv by the end of the day, not a null read I think you're reading that wrong. Think marv is town = will vote Thinks marv is scum = will not vote Unsure of marv = will not vote You're not considering the possibility of #3 in your reasoning. You're saying Keir will have the confidence, but he hasn't said that at all. Following quote sums it up. On November 21 2012 13:22 Keirathi wrote:On November 21 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:@ KeiYou're right, he is capable of pulling off big plays as scum, even day 1. But it's not like I'm giving him a town read already, nor do I plan to vote him until I do. I'm paranoid as fuck when it comes to him, but again, I'm much more confident in my ability to read him than I am any of the other vets, purely because I am extremely familiar with how marv thinks and acts. Err... but you said... On November 21 2012 12:14 Keirathi wrote:
--Quote Pyramid Omitted--
I said I would vote marv, barring a scummy vibe from him. And, yes, I feel I have a decent grasp of when marv is acting scummy. The key is, though, that I thoroughly trust marv's ability to make town reads. In the event that he is scum, though, even a scum marv can't afford to pick other scum without some damn good reasoning that they are town, which I believe could be seen through. Do explain good sir. What is there to explain? Both of those things you bolded say the exact same thing :o ------------------------------------------ On November 21 2012 13:32 iamperfection wrote:
also by the way i have a town read on Dienosore no nooby scum gonna come in here like that. Is there a reason everyone feels the need to shout their town reads this game? ------------------------------------------- On November 21 2012 13:36 Hopeless1der wrote:Greetings all. You'll notice that we're currently in 600 AD Guardia. You're also playing a themed game hosted by none other than Greymist. Please keep that in mind. (Hi Mementoss, you're cool too). Basic vote mechanics for this game seem to boil down to -identify town -vote town to lead the party -Profit -Kill Mafia/Lavos -More Profit
What are people's thoughts on claiming that their character belongs to the 600 AD era and selecting the leader based on that. (YOU ONLY CLAIM "600 AD") Possibly selecting the entire party from within the era, assuming enough of a pool emerges. I linked Chronopedia above in case anyone feels the need to check it out. ~17ish native characters from 600 AD. I think our hidden numbers are influenced by the current era, and events can have varying degrees of success or failure depending on which specific players (not just town or scum) are in the party. Come play the setup speculation game with me please! How about we don't speculate on setup. What is speculating going to do? It's just an opportunity for scum to mislead us when they shouldn't have that opportunity. is it scummy to say what i think? It's anti-town to give scum information they can use. You just told scum your town read (assuming you're town). Now scum will value killing your town read higher than they would have. Way to go. This one is addressed to iamp, but I think it is an interesting one. He is pushing people to retain information... Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 14:13 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 14:05 Dienosore wrote:
I think it's possible to remain credible and maintain a good sense of playfulness at the same time If only you were doing something to lend yourself credibility other than posting nothing. Nice use of the red and bold font for Dieno Here he is framing the player who turns out to be what we have the closest to be confirmed town imho. Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 09:13 TheChronicler wrote:On November 23 2012 09:08 Toadesstern wrote:
Good job. I'm wondering a bit why Deinosaur but it worked out fine.
Lynching Sandroba should be the way to go for today. Maybe Marv. Lol, nice soft defense. Nit-picking again ^^
Conclusion
There are good chances for TheChronicler to be scum
1. The idea of making a plan for the sake of it. I think that he would of given up on it a lot faster if it was a 'joke' plan. The fact that he stuck to it and tried to convince people of it makes me think that he is town.
I think that not believing in his campaign is not actually a scum trait. His main points was his idea, which he pushed A LOT.
2. I have nothing to say about the information issue but I do think that he was talking about different kinds of information. Im gonna let him clarify if he wants.
3. I think he has his reasons for voting for syllo. I do think that the way he did it is a null read.
4. 1 line posts also are not necessarily indicative of alignment. Dieno was posting nothing at that time, everyone thought so.
In conclusion,I think that chronicler is town.
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[QUOTE]On November 24 2012 01:06 goodkarma wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 23 2012 22:44 Acrofales wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 22 2012 22:30 goodkarma wrote:
For all those who are still distrustful of me:
You are certainly entitled to distrust me. I spent a good portion of the opening of this game discussing mechanics and not really so much reads. However, I would like to point out that I have since then:
1) Established a system of greater transparency for who is selected. It is very likely all we'd discuss is party leader, and not the corresponding parties, if I hadn't stepped in. Further, I have shown exactly why this is the best approach...
2) I have been proactive about demonstrating exactly why it is I have chosen who I have and my line of reasoning. Further, I have been (and continue to be) willing to change my platform if compelling evidence can be brought to my attention that a candidate is a weak choice.
3) The only reason I have pursued a party leader position this cycle is that the alternatives I feel at this point do not have trustworthy platforms. I am not trusting of Kita, nor at this point am I content with sending sandroba.
4) I have actually been active this game... If you were to look at any of my scum games, you would notice that I am not nearly this proactive when I play scum. You have discussed prior how it would be absolutely great if we had a candidate that had an easily recognizable town vs. scum game. Well, your welcome.
I will not be submitting my party until I leave for Thanksgiving lunch/dinner late tomorrow morning. I look forward to hearing your opinions on my party, and replying to them in a few hours. But until then, I'm getting a few hours' rest.[/QUOTE]
You can add to that dissatisfaction with syllo's decision to not discuss who was in his party. If you're wandering why that bothered me so much, I could quote more stuff from my filter I guess... -_-
Tbh, I've done my best to be very transparent in my reasoning behind my decisions. Most questions you bring up about motives for playing as I have I am quite confident that you will find the answers to in my filter.
[/QUOTE]
You have a full-on town read of Sandro at the time you decide to run yourself (as evidenced by your very "GK for president" post. Syllo only came much later (I checked timestamps). I am having a lot of trouble understanding why you were "uncontent" sending Sandro at the time.
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On November 24 2012 01:08 Clarity_nl wrote:
GK how do you feel about Hapa's townread on you?
I am not in the least bit surprised that he has made one. Hapa and I have played together now for a few games. He has a good feel for how I play between when I'm town and when I'm scum. I can safely say that his read on me is largely based on meta, and how I am substantially lazier when I am scum. Maybe also that my play is less "clean," to use his terminology when he managed to lynch me as scum last minute day one in NMM XXIII.
Undoubtedly, my scum meta should be expected to shift between games as I improve and I am a little dissatisfied that he would think I could not refine my scum meta to at least somewhat resemble my town one. But he has come to the correct conclusion, for the right reasons.
I do regret that the last few times I've played with him I never took the time to congratulate him, so I'll do so now. He played NMM XXIII spectacularly, and it has been a pleasure to play with him since then.
<3 Happa
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God, I screwed up quote tags :S
On November 24 2012 01:06 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 22:30 goodkarma wrote:
For all those who are still distrustful of me:
You are certainly entitled to distrust me. I spent a good portion of the opening of this game discussing mechanics and not really so much reads. However, I would like to point out that I have since then:
1) Established a system of greater transparency for who is selected. It is very likely all we'd discuss is party leader, and not the corresponding parties, if I hadn't stepped in. Further, I have shown exactly why this is the best approach...
2) I have been proactive about demonstrating exactly why it is I have chosen who I have and my line of reasoning. Further, I have been (and continue to be) willing to change my platform if compelling evidence can be brought to my attention that a candidate is a weak choice.
3) The only reason I have pursued a party leader position this cycle is that the alternatives I feel at this point do not have trustworthy platforms. I am not trusting of Kita, nor at this point am I content with sending sandroba.
4) I have actually been active this game... If you were to look at any of my scum games, you would notice that I am not nearly this proactive when I play scum. You have discussed prior how it would be absolutely great if we had a candidate that had an easily recognizable town vs. scum game. Well, your welcome.
I will not be submitting my party until I leave for Thanksgiving lunch/dinner late tomorrow morning. I look forward to hearing your opinions on my party, and replying to them in a few hours. But until then, I'm getting a few hours' rest. You can add to that dissatisfaction with syllo's decision to not discuss who was in his party. If you're wandering why that bothered me so much, I could quote more stuff from my filter I guess... -_- Tbh, I've done my best to be very transparent in my reasoning behind my decisions. Most questions you bring up about motives for playing as I have I am quite confident that you will find the answers to in my filter.
You have a full-on town read of Sandro at the time you decide to run yourself (as evidenced by your very "GK for president" post. Syllo only came much later (I checked timestamps). I am having a lot of trouble understanding why you were "uncontent" sending Sandro at the time.
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On November 24 2012 01:08 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 00:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hopeless, how does predicting the party show his alignment? It doesn't, but it is definitely not scummy to me. He called out what I presume are two townies (event success) very early. That supposed ability is why he was a candidate in the first place, and he has lived up to that expectation in my eyes. Granted, he gave little in the way of reasoning, and it would be immensely easy to do so as mafia when you know which 'newbies' are town (or at least not mafia), but its still a point in his favor that his most recently proposed party (die/oats/kush) would likely have succeeded as well. (Man, Cyrus and Glenn in the same party? IMBA!)
Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 00:56 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 24 2012 00:52 Clarity_nl wrote:
Can everyone get over the fact that sand has been inactive and just gave a weird excuse and read his filter and my case, please?
This goes especially for the people sheeping without giving reasons other than him going inactive. Wait, I'm doing that thing where I care more about the method than the result again, aren't I? A little bit, but I don't think you're wrong to insist we make a goddamn read for ourselves. Your case on sand shows that he's not trying to win the election. His activity could be to blame for that. -> He doesn't give strong or informed reads. Withholding reasons for a townread to me is not scummy until those same townreads become scumreads. If he continues to read a player as town, I'm fine with that. If they suddenly change to scum, only then do I feel I deserve to know his entire thought process. As a candidate for party leader, I can see why people would want his reads to be as transparent as possible, but I believe that winning the events is more important and I don't consider his 'not trying' to be scummy.
Just pointing out that your reasoning is complete shite.
If Sandro is scum, he doesn't magically lose the ability to see who is appearing townie in the thread. Add to that that he already KNOWS who is town and it becomes even easier for Sandro to pick a team with three townie noobs in it. We then get to setup speculation about whether that would make the event succeed, but on the face of it I still think 1 scum is enough to sabotage a 4-player mission.
So Sandro picking a townie team is indicative only and alone of his ability to pick a townie team, which was never in doubt in the first place.
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marv is there anything in your colouring book that's significantly different than the general consensus?
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Well going to sleep now, see you guys in the morning :D
hopefully with some progress :D
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On November 24 2012 01:18 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 01:06 goodkarma wrote:On November 23 2012 22:44 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 22:30 goodkarma wrote:
For all those who are still distrustful of me:
You are certainly entitled to distrust me. I spent a good portion of the opening of this game discussing mechanics and not really so much reads. However, I would like to point out that I have since then:
1) Established a system of greater transparency for who is selected. It is very likely all we'd discuss is party leader, and not the corresponding parties, if I hadn't stepped in. Further, I have shown exactly why this is the best approach...
2) I have been proactive about demonstrating exactly why it is I have chosen who I have and my line of reasoning. Further, I have been (and continue to be) willing to change my platform if compelling evidence can be brought to my attention that a candidate is a weak choice.
3) The only reason I have pursued a party leader position this cycle is that the alternatives I feel at this point do not have trustworthy platforms. I am not trusting of Kita, nor at this point am I content with sending sandroba.
4) I have actually been active this game... If you were to look at any of my scum games, you would notice that I am not nearly this proactive when I play scum. You have discussed prior how it would be absolutely great if we had a candidate that had an easily recognizable town vs. scum game. Well, your welcome.
I will not be submitting my party until I leave for Thanksgiving lunch/dinner late tomorrow morning. I look forward to hearing your opinions on my party, and replying to them in a few hours. But until then, I'm getting a few hours' rest. You can add to that dissatisfaction with syllo's decision to not discuss who was in his party. If you're wandering why that bothered me so much, I could quote more stuff from my filter I guess... -_- Tbh, I've done my best to be very transparent in my reasoning behind my decisions. Most questions you bring up about motives for playing as I have I am quite confident that you will find the answers to in my filter. You have a full-on town read of Sandro at the time you decide to run yourself (as evidenced by your very "GK for president" post. Syllo only came much later (I checked timestamps). I am having a lot of trouble understanding why you were "uncontent" sending Sandro at the time.
So the sequence of events went something like this:
discontent with lack of transparency in who candidates would choose to go with them-->seriously run for office (in part to show by example how others should run, showing others who they'd actually bring)
Upon reassessing my read on Sandro, I came to the realization that he was a poor choice, but the original intent in running was to get going the idea that the entire party should be known up-front.
Again, this should be clear from my filter...
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EPT
