• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:11
CEST 00:11
KST 07:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)10Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy5Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week2Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 SOOP Starcraft Global #22
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 31188 users

Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 259

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 257 258 259 260 261 384 Next
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
November 30 2012 15:48 GMT
#5161
why did you vote yourself in the first place?
No gg, No skill.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
November 30 2012 15:49 GMT
#5162
On December 01 2012 00:19 phagga wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 09:21 Hapahauli wrote:
GK saw Sandro as town. If GK were scum, he would at least know that Sandro is not scum. GK wants to have sandro in his team. I don't like the reasoning of GK, I think its contradicting. I therefore make the hypothesis that if GK is scum, he takes Sandro (whom he knows not to be scum) on his team to look more townie. That's the whole story. I did not say anywhere in that post that I think that Sandro is town.

Hell, i even write one paragraph earlier: " If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team" (it should actually say "you" instead of "GK", but whatever).


What about GK's previous analysis was "contradictory?" He wanted someone he thought was town on his team - that's pretty straightfoward to me.


Ok, let's do this right so we can hopefully close that topic. I want to put this into relation of the dialog I already had with GK at that point and how I felt about GK then. Context matters, after all.

So let's start with what Goodkarma wrote here:

Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote:
Who I would nominate (if not myself):

As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba.

Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv).

I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced.


Goodkarma for President:

As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time.


So, in this very post he says that he would support Sandro because he adopts a solid strategy. Then he proposes himself as party leader and says he would take Sandroba on his team. I found this strange, which is why I asked him:

Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 15:59 phagga wrote:
You would vote Sandroba because you think his strategy is solid. His strategy involves taking less known townies on the team and no additional vets, to make it harder for scum to decide who to snipe. Your Strategy however would be to take at least one vet and a well known, albeit newer town player to your team. Why?


His answer

Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 17:07 goodkarma wrote:
I agree with Sandroba insofar as that lesser known players that are obvious townies should be strongly considered. However, at the end of the day, going with your three strongest town reads is going to be optimal for selecting a party. Unfortunately I, like several other players here, have somewhat of a bias at times towards prioritizing players that we have played with before. It could also be said that less experienced players are more likely to post like crap and not distinguish themselves as town than "vets" (look at deino). So there might be some unintentional bias towards vets (which is something I would try to avoid to the best of my ability). To be clear I will definitely be reassessing my read on Prox (as well as Sandroba) before making a finalized Vice Presidential Candidate trifecta.

I don't feel it's absolutely necessary that all three chosen members are townie looking newbies. I feel that the chosen members should be closest to 100% confirmed town, and that newbies should not be left out of consideration. Maybe there is a small difference between myself and Sandroba in this area. That's good for my election campaign I suppose...


So, he explains he has a slightly different plan than Sandro. Fair enough. Still, I wondered, why would anyone who has a town read on Sandro would vote Goodkarma instead of Sandroba, when Sandroba was running for party leader himself? After all, he is the vet, the well known scumhunter who was drawing votes with his name alone. Why would GK expect to be voted instead of Sandroba when his team contained Sandroba as well?

I also have a short discussion with GK about town/scumhunting here. After that I write the following:

Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 07:04 phagga wrote:
- Goodkarma: I will have to go through his filter again (not in the next 10 hours though), but my gut currently says that he is talking too much about the importance of townhunting. I have him in my mind as "looks like he is contributing but is not really helping town". Do not want him on the party.


I do not call him scum. I voice my suspicion of him. Some later, Goodkarma posts this:

Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote:
3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform.


And again, I wonder, why should anyone vote GK instead of Sandroba if GK is gonna take Sand on his team anyway. Their plans differ only slightly, and most people would probably trust a town sand more to make accurate reads than a town GK.

I was then writing a longer post about who I wanted as party leader and why. Somewhere in there was this part about Goodkarma and that I did not understand why he was voting Sandroba. Then I realised that it might be better to ask GK beforehand, show that I don't trust him and then post the longer post. Additionally, I wanted to show him where I came from with my suspiciouns and added that "What do you say about this:" part. However, it was meant to draw a reaction, i did not have a scum read on him at that point, I just wanted to see how he responded. So I posted this:

Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote:
@Goodkarma

If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro?

What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that.


Also, after copying the short paragraph in a new post, I started changing the sentences from third person to second person (as I was going to ask GK directly instead of talking about him in 3rd person). I made an error in the second sentence of the first paragraph (it should be "if you think Sandro..."). The reason is that I was doing this in a hurry, I was at work. I had already typed this long post that I wanted to put online, so I hurried to get this short post about GK out. Perhaps that is a reason why I did not word it clear enough, which is possibly why you seem to interpret it as "phagga says GK is scum and Sandro is town", while in reality it was supposed to be a hypothetical question that
- should provoke a reaction of GK
- should show GK what my fear about his candidature was

Then, 3 minutes later, I posted the aforementioned big post, where I discussed who I wanted to vote and why.

So, I admit, contradiction is the wrong word. His candidature did not make any sense to me with Sandroba in his team. Also, I know I am not the only one who felt that way, look at this post from prom for example, or risks post here.



So you consider rehashing old arguements I've already addressed activity? You do know Hapa has a case against you, and you are continuing to behave as scum in the way highlighted in that case, right? + Show Spoiler +
(Not coming up with any new arguement of any kind. Attacking "safe" players who already have cases against them...)
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 30 2012 15:51 GMT
#5163
GK, I said we should ignore you voting for yourself. I didn't say we should ignore you entirely.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
November 30 2012 15:56 GMT
#5164
On December 01 2012 00:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
why did you vote yourself in the first place?


As I just said, I was frustrated with this game. I was thinking that after I flip town, people would finally get their acts together. As in, consider what I've just presented: what is (at least in my humble opinion) a rather definitive writeup showing exactly why phagga and strong are scum (by process of elimination: their actions are scummy, and nearly everyone else can be pegged as 3rd party or town).

If people won't let me contribute by actually considering what I tell them, then death is my greatest contribution... At least that was my line of thought at the time.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
November 30 2012 15:57 GMT
#5165
On December 01 2012 00:51 Clarity_nl wrote:
GK, I said we should ignore you voting for yourself. I didn't say we should ignore you entirely.


Great. Please comment on my case.
phagga
Profile Joined February 2012
Switzerland2194 Posts
November 30 2012 16:09 GMT
#5166
On December 01 2012 00:49 goodkarma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 00:19 phagga wrote:
On November 30 2012 09:21 Hapahauli wrote:
GK saw Sandro as town. If GK were scum, he would at least know that Sandro is not scum. GK wants to have sandro in his team. I don't like the reasoning of GK, I think its contradicting. I therefore make the hypothesis that if GK is scum, he takes Sandro (whom he knows not to be scum) on his team to look more townie. That's the whole story. I did not say anywhere in that post that I think that Sandro is town.

Hell, i even write one paragraph earlier: " If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team" (it should actually say "you" instead of "GK", but whatever).


What about GK's previous analysis was "contradictory?" He wanted someone he thought was town on his team - that's pretty straightfoward to me.


Ok, let's do this right so we can hopefully close that topic. I want to put this into relation of the dialog I already had with GK at that point and how I felt about GK then. Context matters, after all.

So let's start with what Goodkarma wrote here:

On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote:
Who I would nominate (if not myself):

As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba.

Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv).

I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced.


Goodkarma for President:

As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time.


So, in this very post he says that he would support Sandro because he adopts a solid strategy. Then he proposes himself as party leader and says he would take Sandroba on his team. I found this strange, which is why I asked him:

On November 21 2012 15:59 phagga wrote:
You would vote Sandroba because you think his strategy is solid. His strategy involves taking less known townies on the team and no additional vets, to make it harder for scum to decide who to snipe. Your Strategy however would be to take at least one vet and a well known, albeit newer town player to your team. Why?


His answer

On November 21 2012 17:07 goodkarma wrote:
I agree with Sandroba insofar as that lesser known players that are obvious townies should be strongly considered. However, at the end of the day, going with your three strongest town reads is going to be optimal for selecting a party. Unfortunately I, like several other players here, have somewhat of a bias at times towards prioritizing players that we have played with before. It could also be said that less experienced players are more likely to post like crap and not distinguish themselves as town than "vets" (look at deino). So there might be some unintentional bias towards vets (which is something I would try to avoid to the best of my ability). To be clear I will definitely be reassessing my read on Prox (as well as Sandroba) before making a finalized Vice Presidential Candidate trifecta.

I don't feel it's absolutely necessary that all three chosen members are townie looking newbies. I feel that the chosen members should be closest to 100% confirmed town, and that newbies should not be left out of consideration. Maybe there is a small difference between myself and Sandroba in this area. That's good for my election campaign I suppose...


So, he explains he has a slightly different plan than Sandro. Fair enough. Still, I wondered, why would anyone who has a town read on Sandro would vote Goodkarma instead of Sandroba, when Sandroba was running for party leader himself? After all, he is the vet, the well known scumhunter who was drawing votes with his name alone. Why would GK expect to be voted instead of Sandroba when his team contained Sandroba as well?

I also have a short discussion with GK about town/scumhunting here. After that I write the following:

On November 22 2012 07:04 phagga wrote:
- Goodkarma: I will have to go through his filter again (not in the next 10 hours though), but my gut currently says that he is talking too much about the importance of townhunting. I have him in my mind as "looks like he is contributing but is not really helping town". Do not want him on the party.


I do not call him scum. I voice my suspicion of him. Some later, Goodkarma posts this:

On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote:
3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform.


And again, I wonder, why should anyone vote GK instead of Sandroba if GK is gonna take Sand on his team anyway. Their plans differ only slightly, and most people would probably trust a town sand more to make accurate reads than a town GK.

I was then writing a longer post about who I wanted as party leader and why. Somewhere in there was this part about Goodkarma and that I did not understand why he was voting Sandroba. Then I realised that it might be better to ask GK beforehand, show that I don't trust him and then post the longer post. Additionally, I wanted to show him where I came from with my suspiciouns and added that "What do you say about this:" part. However, it was meant to draw a reaction, i did not have a scum read on him at that point, I just wanted to see how he responded. So I posted this:

On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote:
@Goodkarma

If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro?

What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that.


Also, after copying the short paragraph in a new post, I started changing the sentences from third person to second person (as I was going to ask GK directly instead of talking about him in 3rd person). I made an error in the second sentence of the first paragraph (it should be "if you think Sandro..."). The reason is that I was doing this in a hurry, I was at work. I had already typed this long post that I wanted to put online, so I hurried to get this short post about GK out. Perhaps that is a reason why I did not word it clear enough, which is possibly why you seem to interpret it as "phagga says GK is scum and Sandro is town", while in reality it was supposed to be a hypothetical question that
- should provoke a reaction of GK
- should show GK what my fear about his candidature was

Then, 3 minutes later, I posted the aforementioned big post, where I discussed who I wanted to vote and why.

So, I admit, contradiction is the wrong word. His candidature did not make any sense to me with Sandroba in his team. Also, I know I am not the only one who felt that way, look at this post from prom for example, or risks post here.



So you consider rehashing old arguements I've already addressed activity? You do know Hapa has a case against you, and you are continuing to behave as scum in the way highlighted in that case, right? + Show Spoiler +
(Not coming up with any new arguement of any kind. Attacking "safe" players who already have cases against them...)
eh, I was answering a question hapa asked me. Since when is that a bad thing? Are you actually reading what I post?

(posting from phone)
"A person who does not concern himself with politics has already made the political choice he was so anxious to spare himself: he is serving the ruling party." - Max Frisch
phagga
Profile Joined February 2012
Switzerland2194 Posts
November 30 2012 16:11 GMT
#5167
Ebwop I hope you see the irony in your answer to me. That post of yours was just ridiculous.
"A person who does not concern himself with politics has already made the political choice he was so anxious to spare himself: he is serving the ruling party." - Max Frisch
phagga
Profile Joined February 2012
Switzerland2194 Posts
November 30 2012 16:19 GMT
#5168
Just a thought: is it possible that scum has an ability to reverse the voting list? Meaning the guy with the least votes gets llynched/leader?
"A person who does not concern himself with politics has already made the political choice he was so anxious to spare himself: he is serving the ruling party." - Max Frisch
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 30 2012 16:20 GMT
#5169
Seems way too overpowered.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
November 30 2012 16:25 GMT
#5170
On December 01 2012 01:19 phagga wrote:
Just a thought: is it possible that scum has an ability to reverse the voting list? Meaning the guy with the least votes gets llynched/leader?

dont even see how that would work what would you do with all the people with 0 votes?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
phagga
Profile Joined February 2012
Switzerland2194 Posts
November 30 2012 16:32 GMT
#5171
On December 01 2012 01:25 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 01:19 phagga wrote:
Just a thought: is it possible that scum has an ability to reverse the voting list? Meaning the guy with the least votes gets llynched/leader?

dont even see how that would work what would you do with all the people with 0 votes?

Ignore them, probably? I dont know, it is just something that came to my mind while pondering about the game. That is why I ask you guys about your opinion. Might be i am just too paranoid.
"A person who does not concern himself with politics has already made the political choice he was so anxious to spare himself: he is serving the ruling party." - Max Frisch
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
November 30 2012 16:34 GMT
#5172
On December 01 2012 01:09 phagga wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 00:49 goodkarma wrote:
On December 01 2012 00:19 phagga wrote:
On November 30 2012 09:21 Hapahauli wrote:
GK saw Sandro as town. If GK were scum, he would at least know that Sandro is not scum. GK wants to have sandro in his team. I don't like the reasoning of GK, I think its contradicting. I therefore make the hypothesis that if GK is scum, he takes Sandro (whom he knows not to be scum) on his team to look more townie. That's the whole story. I did not say anywhere in that post that I think that Sandro is town.

Hell, i even write one paragraph earlier: " If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team" (it should actually say "you" instead of "GK", but whatever).


What about GK's previous analysis was "contradictory?" He wanted someone he thought was town on his team - that's pretty straightfoward to me.


Ok, let's do this right so we can hopefully close that topic. I want to put this into relation of the dialog I already had with GK at that point and how I felt about GK then. Context matters, after all.

So let's start with what Goodkarma wrote here:

On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote:
Who I would nominate (if not myself):

As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba.

Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv).

I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced.


Goodkarma for President:

As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time.


So, in this very post he says that he would support Sandro because he adopts a solid strategy. Then he proposes himself as party leader and says he would take Sandroba on his team. I found this strange, which is why I asked him:

On November 21 2012 15:59 phagga wrote:
You would vote Sandroba because you think his strategy is solid. His strategy involves taking less known townies on the team and no additional vets, to make it harder for scum to decide who to snipe. Your Strategy however would be to take at least one vet and a well known, albeit newer town player to your team. Why?


His answer

On November 21 2012 17:07 goodkarma wrote:
I agree with Sandroba insofar as that lesser known players that are obvious townies should be strongly considered. However, at the end of the day, going with your three strongest town reads is going to be optimal for selecting a party. Unfortunately I, like several other players here, have somewhat of a bias at times towards prioritizing players that we have played with before. It could also be said that less experienced players are more likely to post like crap and not distinguish themselves as town than "vets" (look at deino). So there might be some unintentional bias towards vets (which is something I would try to avoid to the best of my ability). To be clear I will definitely be reassessing my read on Prox (as well as Sandroba) before making a finalized Vice Presidential Candidate trifecta.

I don't feel it's absolutely necessary that all three chosen members are townie looking newbies. I feel that the chosen members should be closest to 100% confirmed town, and that newbies should not be left out of consideration. Maybe there is a small difference between myself and Sandroba in this area. That's good for my election campaign I suppose...


So, he explains he has a slightly different plan than Sandro. Fair enough. Still, I wondered, why would anyone who has a town read on Sandro would vote Goodkarma instead of Sandroba, when Sandroba was running for party leader himself? After all, he is the vet, the well known scumhunter who was drawing votes with his name alone. Why would GK expect to be voted instead of Sandroba when his team contained Sandroba as well?

I also have a short discussion with GK about town/scumhunting here. After that I write the following:

On November 22 2012 07:04 phagga wrote:
- Goodkarma: I will have to go through his filter again (not in the next 10 hours though), but my gut currently says that he is talking too much about the importance of townhunting. I have him in my mind as "looks like he is contributing but is not really helping town". Do not want him on the party.


I do not call him scum. I voice my suspicion of him. Some later, Goodkarma posts this:

On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote:
3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform.


And again, I wonder, why should anyone vote GK instead of Sandroba if GK is gonna take Sand on his team anyway. Their plans differ only slightly, and most people would probably trust a town sand more to make accurate reads than a town GK.

I was then writing a longer post about who I wanted as party leader and why. Somewhere in there was this part about Goodkarma and that I did not understand why he was voting Sandroba. Then I realised that it might be better to ask GK beforehand, show that I don't trust him and then post the longer post. Additionally, I wanted to show him where I came from with my suspiciouns and added that "What do you say about this:" part. However, it was meant to draw a reaction, i did not have a scum read on him at that point, I just wanted to see how he responded. So I posted this:

On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote:
@Goodkarma

If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro?

What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that.


Also, after copying the short paragraph in a new post, I started changing the sentences from third person to second person (as I was going to ask GK directly instead of talking about him in 3rd person). I made an error in the second sentence of the first paragraph (it should be "if you think Sandro..."). The reason is that I was doing this in a hurry, I was at work. I had already typed this long post that I wanted to put online, so I hurried to get this short post about GK out. Perhaps that is a reason why I did not word it clear enough, which is possibly why you seem to interpret it as "phagga says GK is scum and Sandro is town", while in reality it was supposed to be a hypothetical question that
- should provoke a reaction of GK
- should show GK what my fear about his candidature was

Then, 3 minutes later, I posted the aforementioned big post, where I discussed who I wanted to vote and why.

So, I admit, contradiction is the wrong word. His candidature did not make any sense to me with Sandroba in his team. Also, I know I am not the only one who felt that way, look at this post from prom for example, or risks post here.



So you consider rehashing old arguements I've already addressed activity? You do know Hapa has a case against you, and you are continuing to behave as scum in the way highlighted in that case, right? + Show Spoiler +
(Not coming up with any new arguement of any kind. Attacking "safe" players who already have cases against them...)
eh, I was answering a question hapa asked me. Since when is that a bad thing? Are you actually reading what I post?

(posting from phone)


Does it matter who it was in reply to? It's rehashing arguments all the same...

Here's a thought: Besides me (and obviously Toad), who do you think has the highest chance of being scum and why?
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
November 30 2012 16:36 GMT
#5173
anyways gk you suggested that phagga is continuing his "making cases on easy targets".

My comment is that i dont really see how this is problem with this state of the game since it has been somewhat determined who is town and third party through verifiable claims and strong meta reads. I dont see how this is a scum tell at this point in the game.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
November 30 2012 16:37 GMT
#5174
he said hopeless gk
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Dienosore
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
November 30 2012 16:41 GMT
#5175
On December 01 2012 00:44 goodkarma wrote:
Stop and think for a second: As scum: Do you seriously think that I would make a detailed list post highlighting all my reads in this game? This would give you an abundance of information if I were to flip scum, and that just isn't my scumgame... Further, that's way more effort than I put into my scum game...

Seriously. Get your head out of your ass and spend a few seconds to consider the merits of my writeup.


Except you fail to mention that you put that exact same list in the mason qt before you posted it here. Now, I'm not sure why you felt the need to throw all that info to the public? Giving cases on scum is fine, but copy/pasting your notepad list of reads on half of the people of the game just doesn't make sense to me... Maybe you were scared Syllo was going to expose it, and so you decided to post here in the forums before he did as a bit of damage control?
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
November 30 2012 16:42 GMT
#5176
On December 01 2012 01:41 Dienosore wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 00:44 goodkarma wrote:
Stop and think for a second: As scum: Do you seriously think that I would make a detailed list post highlighting all my reads in this game? This would give you an abundance of information if I were to flip scum, and that just isn't my scumgame... Further, that's way more effort than I put into my scum game...

Seriously. Get your head out of your ass and spend a few seconds to consider the merits of my writeup.


Except you fail to mention that you put that exact same list in the mason qt before you posted it here. Now, I'm not sure why you felt the need to throw all that info to the public? Giving cases on scum is fine, but copy/pasting your notepad list of reads on half of the people of the game just doesn't make sense to me... Maybe you were scared Syllo was going to expose it, and so you decided to post here in the forums before he did as a bit of damage control?

when did he post it in the qt?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Dienosore
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
November 30 2012 16:49 GMT
#5177
In the QT:
goodkarma
11-27-2012
07:13 PM ET (US)

On TL:
November 28 2012 09:57
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
November 30 2012 17:05 GMT
#5178
On December 01 2012 01:37 iamperfection wrote:
he said hopeless gk


I almost missed it. He linked to a very old case on Hopeless about a page ago... Let's take a look at it:

On November 29 2012 01:32 phagga wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2012 22:23 strongandbig wrote:
Now, phagga I have a couple of questions for you:
1. As far as I can tell, you changed your mind on your scumread on goodkarma because of the timing of his vote on Sandroba. Could you update that read for us? Given that Sandroba never really responded to Syllo's case or made a real effort to not get himself lynched, I'm hesitant to draw any conclusions from who voted for him when. It's definitely possible that his teammates knew he wasn't going to try very hard, and started bussing him very early. So if you ignore gk's vote on sandro, do you still think he's town or do you want to lynch him again.
2. You said you object to hopeless being in the party. do you think he's scum? What do you think of my stuff on his behavior since the check on him and acro?
3. What is kitaman's alignment and why do you think that?

-snip-

2. I remember going over Hopeless' filter a few days ago and setting him null on my list. Then Hope came up with this strange theorie about what if Toad flips town, followed by TC saying that Acro and Hope are of opposite alignement. Then he wanted to be part of the party to show that he is town, which was a red flag for me. Since then he is marked as scum.

Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest.

The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative.

-snip-




This only adds to the evidence this guy is scum. It is super-lazy to use this as your case. What's more, it was a case he didn't have any conviction with describing. I'm not at all convinced from his case he thinks hopeless is scum.:

Let's start with the bolded part.: The opposite alignment issue was already explained. And wanting to be in a party at this point in the game would be suicide for scum. So that only leaves a strange remark about Toad being town...


Second paragraph: "Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest.":

How is a "no shenanigans" announcement indicative of only a scum mentality? He needs to elaborate on this point...


Third Paragraph: "The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. "

So here, he's saying that what hopeless says isn't genuine, but isn't necessarily scum motivated. In other words, he tells us nothing.


So what I get from this post that amounts to any kind of opinion at all is: 1) Hopeless said Toad could be town once, 2) Announcing no shennanigans means Hopeless is scum...

Does everyone see how wishy-washy and weak this case is? This is exactly how a scum trying to blend in posts. It is blatantly obvious from stunts like this that phagga is scum.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
November 30 2012 17:11 GMT
#5179
ok so whats the deal with the qt reads and only sharing them just recently.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
November 30 2012 17:14 GMT
#5180
On December 01 2012 01:41 Dienosore wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 00:44 goodkarma wrote:
Stop and think for a second: As scum: Do you seriously think that I would make a detailed list post highlighting all my reads in this game? This would give you an abundance of information if I were to flip scum, and that just isn't my scumgame... Further, that's way more effort than I put into my scum game...

Seriously. Get your head out of your ass and spend a few seconds to consider the merits of my writeup.


Except you fail to mention that you put that exact same list in the mason qt before you posted it here. Now, I'm not sure why you felt the need to throw all that info to the public? Giving cases on scum is fine, but copy/pasting your notepad list of reads on half of the people of the game just doesn't make sense to me... Maybe you were scared Syllo was going to expose it, and so you decided to post here in the forums before he did as a bit of damage control?



In other words: I threw out a lot of my thoughts into the forums that day without really editing them... Exactly as I previously described.
Prev 1 257 258 259 260 261 384 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
19:00
Mid Season Playoffs
sebesdes vs GgMaChineLIVE!
Babymarine vs Moja
SteadfastSC302
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 302
Livibee 135
ProTech67
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 82
NaDa 7
Dota 2
febbydoto16
League of Legends
Grubby3568
Counter-Strike
fl0m6553
olofmeister2723
sgares1002
Stewie2K327
Skadoodle244
zeus219
rGuardiaN140
PGG 42
Other Games
summit1g6042
FrodaN3612
Dendi656
C9.Mang0518
KnowMe172
Mew2King158
ViBE145
NeuroSwarm73
Trikslyr66
Sick54
PPMD47
Dewaltoss44
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV43
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 53
• davetesta48
• RyuSc2 48
• Hupsaiya 42
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 14
• Azhi_Dahaki13
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21264
League of Legends
• Doublelift5367
• TFBlade1446
Other Games
• imaqtpie1190
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 49m
SOOP
10h 49m
Cure vs Zoun
SC Evo League
13h 49m
Road to EWC
15h 49m
SOOP Global
16h 49m
FuturE vs MaNa
Harstem vs Cham
BSL: ProLeague
19h 49m
Sziky vs JDConan
Cross vs MadiNho
Hawk vs Bonyth
Circuito Brasileiro de…
21h 49m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 11h
Road to EWC
1d 15h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 19h
UltrA vs TBD
Dewalt vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #3 - GSC
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

NPSL Lushan
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.