EPTChrono Trigger Mafia - Page 258
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Some comments on my proposition ? You should take Dieno at least. He is going to be alive tomorrow  | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18285 Posts
On November 30 2012 22:55 Djodref wrote: No, it is definitively a scumtell, whatever the reason. Since I've been reading these forums, I've only ever saw scum players voting themselves. I've seen it done by both. In my newbie game the first person to vote for himself was town. After that it became a thing and scummers did it in the same game too. VE has voted for himself on numerous occasions regardless of his alignment. Those are the examples I can come up with. All I can say on the subject is that it's stupid. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18285 Posts
On November 30 2012 23:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Why would you vote for yourself unless you basically concede? ?? The reasoning at the time was (for the townie votes): "I am town, nobody believes me and it is shitting up the thread to no end. My continued presence in the game will screw everybody over and is skewing people's perceptions of the actual scum in the game. So, lets get this over with, kill me, and then you can all get on with actual scumhunting and I will win the game post-mortem." The scum motivation is of course: "I am scum, but nobody believes scum would willingly kill themselves, so I will vote for myself, thereby 'proving' I am not scum and make it less likely that I get lynched." It is a derp-tell, not a scum-tell. If derping it up is a scumtell for GK (based on meta), then go ahead and use it in a case. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18285 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On November 30 2012 22:55 Djodref wrote: No, it is definitively a scumtell, whatever the reason. Since I've been reading these forums, I've only ever saw scum players voting themselves. I did it once as town, which was game-ending in Mafias favor. Game was Wheel of Fortune. I still feel bad for it. Therefore, yes, it is a very dumb thing to do and not necessarily alignement-indicative. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On November 30 2012 22:55 iamperfection wrote: prom what was your action cycle 2? and i know you said you forgot to send the action im asking if your sure | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 30 2012 22:56 Djodref wrote: @Clarity Some comments on my proposition ? I don't see how commenting will help anyone. If I have questions I'll ask them though. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 28 2012 02:29 Hopeless1der wrote: Someone felt I was worth protecting, and I was not healed. I dealt more than 75 damage to myself, and I have no idea if anyone attacked me. I am going to be untargetable due to my unlocked ability tonight, assuming I use it (I'm gonna use it, but I have the choice not to). There is a secondary function that I am going to withhold for now. Don't bother doing anything to me tonight, as I am untouchable by ANY targeted ability. So, we are talking about Hapa and stuff about being healed or not. What do you think about this nugget I dig up in Hopeless filter ? "Someone felt I was worth protecting" ? Does anyone want to claim having protected Hopeless at that time ? Or shall we assume that he was also lying about "not being healed" or about the damage he did to himself ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 30 2012 23:22 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't see how commenting will help anyone. If I have questions I'll ask them though. Ok, let me be more direct. I want you to officially state that Dieno and me are going to be in your party. Would you do it ? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Doesnt it make it easier for scum to target? Since there is a distinct advantage in killing off party members. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 30 2012 23:28 Oatsmaster wrote: Djo, what is the point of saying who is in the party? Doesnt it make it easier for scum to target? Since there is a distinct advantage in killing off party members. First of all, Dieno is not going to die. He has to be in the party for this reason. And if you say who is in the party, it's also easier for town to you who to protect. Anyway, I think I made my point and that Clarity is going to take Dieno in the team. I'm going to respect his choice if he doesn't want to disclose the names of the other party members. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On November 30 2012 09:21 Hapahauli wrote: What about GK's previous analysis was "contradictory?" He wanted someone he thought was town on his team - that's pretty straightfoward to me. Ok, let's do this right so we can hopefully close that topic. I want to put this into relation of the dialog I already had with GK at that point and how I felt about GK then. Context matters, after all. So let's start with what Goodkarma wrote here: On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote: Who I would nominate (if not myself): As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba. Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv). I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced. Goodkarma for President: As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time. So, in this very post he says that he would support Sandro because he adopts a solid strategy. Then he proposes himself as party leader and says he would take Sandroba on his team. I found this strange, which is why I asked him: On November 21 2012 15:59 phagga wrote: You would vote Sandroba because you think his strategy is solid. His strategy involves taking less known townies on the team and no additional vets, to make it harder for scum to decide who to snipe. Your Strategy however would be to take at least one vet and a well known, albeit newer town player to your team. Why? His answer On November 21 2012 17:07 goodkarma wrote: I agree with Sandroba insofar as that lesser known players that are obvious townies should be strongly considered. However, at the end of the day, going with your three strongest town reads is going to be optimal for selecting a party. Unfortunately I, like several other players here, have somewhat of a bias at times towards prioritizing players that we have played with before. It could also be said that less experienced players are more likely to post like crap and not distinguish themselves as town than "vets" (look at deino). So there might be some unintentional bias towards vets (which is something I would try to avoid to the best of my ability). To be clear I will definitely be reassessing my read on Prox (as well as Sandroba) before making a finalized Vice Presidential Candidate trifecta. I don't feel it's absolutely necessary that all three chosen members are townie looking newbies. I feel that the chosen members should be closest to 100% confirmed town, and that newbies should not be left out of consideration. Maybe there is a small difference between myself and Sandroba in this area. That's good for my election campaign I suppose... So, he explains he has a slightly different plan than Sandro. Fair enough. Still, I wondered, why would anyone who has a town read on Sandro would vote Goodkarma instead of Sandroba, when Sandroba was running for party leader himself? After all, he is the vet, the well known scumhunter who was drawing votes with his name alone. Why would GK expect to be voted instead of Sandroba when his team contained Sandroba as well? I also have a short discussion with GK about town/scumhunting here. After that I write the following: On November 22 2012 07:04 phagga wrote: - Goodkarma: I will have to go through his filter again (not in the next 10 hours though), but my gut currently says that he is talking too much about the importance of townhunting. I have him in my mind as "looks like he is contributing but is not really helping town". Do not want him on the party. I do not call him scum. I voice my suspicion of him. Some later, Goodkarma posts this: On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote: 3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. And again, I wonder, why should anyone vote GK instead of Sandroba if GK is gonna take Sand on his team anyway. Their plans differ only slightly, and most people would probably trust a town sand more to make accurate reads than a town GK. I was then writing a longer post about who I wanted as party leader and why. Somewhere in there was this part about Goodkarma and that I did not understand why he was voting Sandroba. Then I realised that it might be better to ask GK beforehand, show that I don't trust him and then post the longer post. Additionally, I wanted to show him where I came from with my suspiciouns and added that "What do you say about this:" part. However, it was meant to draw a reaction, i did not have a scum read on him at that point, I just wanted to see how he responded. So I posted this: On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote: @Goodkarma If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro? What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that. Also, after copying the short paragraph in a new post, I started changing the sentences from third person to second person (as I was going to ask GK directly instead of talking about him in 3rd person). I made an error in the second sentence of the first paragraph (it should be "if you think Sandro..."). The reason is that I was doing this in a hurry, I was at work. I had already typed this long post that I wanted to put online, so I hurried to get this short post about GK out. Perhaps that is a reason why I did not word it clear enough, which is possibly why you seem to interpret it as "phagga says GK is scum and Sandro is town", while in reality it was supposed to be a hypothetical question that - should provoke a reaction of GK - should show GK what my fear about his candidature was Then, 3 minutes later, I posted the aforementioned big post, where I discussed who I wanted to vote and why. So, I admit, contradiction is the wrong word. His candidature did not make any sense to me with Sandroba in his team. Also, I know I am not the only one who felt that way, look at this post from prom for example, or risks post here. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
and don't say syllo. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
I'm on the way to the buss/train, will hopefully be online again before the deadline. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 30 2012 22:15 Clarity_nl wrote: I misread, wasn't aware it was GK voting for himself. Could be town emo or scum gambit, it's dumb either way and should be ignored. I'd argue it's dumb to go into full-on ignore mode of everything I say. In many ways, it feels like I'm going to be ignored until I'm dead, hence the vote... But we have zero clue how scum could possibly affect the lynch. Like what if only scum votes count? Then I could be mislynched for a different reason than the "second highest count wins" theory. Everyone should be held accountable for their votes. I know this much: after reassessing my reads yesterday, I've come to the conclusion phagga is scum. Said scum is voting for me... All hypotheticals aside, it is severely anti-town for me to vote myself. But I am really frustrated with how town is behaving right now... ##Unvote ##Vote: Keirathi ##Lynch Phagga If there is to be a "second lynch choice" this cycle, it should be phagga. Stop and think for a second: As scum: Do you seriously think that I would make a detailed list post highlighting all my reads in this game? This would give you an abundance of information if I were to flip scum, and that just isn't my scumgame... Further, that's way more effort than I put into my scum game... Seriously. Get your head out of your ass and spend a few seconds to consider the merits of my writeup. Is there anything in particular there you disagree with? I find it really funny that the only person here that seems to be rational right now is Acro. And he's claimed third party  . | ||
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