On November 24 2012 06:07 Keirathi wrote:
Why no one comment on Prom![](/mirror/smilies/frown.gif)
Why no one comment on Prom
![](/mirror/smilies/frown.gif)
I am still pretty concerned at Prome's alignment and your post makes sense.
Right now I'm trying to get a read on kita out of syllo though ;p
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:07 Keirathi wrote: Why no one comment on Prom ![]() I am still pretty concerned at Prome's alignment and your post makes sense. Right now I'm trying to get a read on kita out of syllo though ;p | ||
Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
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TheChronicler
Macedonia260 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:09 Dienosore wrote: Oh and I gave up on my case for sand. I don't see anything extraordinarily alarming about him other than not being very active. This by itself is still VERY SUSPICIOUS behavior, but I think we have some other targets right now that are clearer. who do you want to lynch, then? | ||
syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On November 24 2012 05:59 marvellosity wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote: A lot of things he has said so far have been a little off and I agree that question is one of those. what do you think of kita's play so far? his proposal of cave as a lynch candidate, his support with no reasoning for sandroba? some of his earlier reads that felt weakly thought through? I agree that his reads, or at least the reasoning behind them, have been weak as is often the case when he is mafia. The way he suggests Cave as an "alternative" while still stressing that he would love to lynch sandroba is also suspicious. Cave may be mafia, but I don't understand what his plan is because he has essentially guaranteed that he will never be selected to the party. I think his very first post said that he shouldn't be selected; would he do that as mafia and would his team allow it? Third party seems more likely. Kita's early attacks were focused on me over sandroba and the attacks were very weak. He never addressed sandroba directly, except when sandro asked him a random question. Here he paints me, marvel and sandro red http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984163 50 minutes later he says he hasn't read sandro's filter yet and says sandro's posts have been reasonable and logical (although he says that doesn't make him town) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984518 The turkey post wasn't obviously completely serious, but seems weird to paint us red as a joke | ||
TheChronicler
Macedonia260 Posts
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:11 marvellosity wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2012 06:09 Dienosore wrote: Oh and I gave up on my case for sand. I don't see anything extraordinarily alarming about him other than not being very active. This by itself is still VERY SUSPICIOUS behavior, but I think we have some other targets right now that are clearer. who do you want to lynch, then? GoodKarma | ||
Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:17 TheChronicler wrote: I still like a Sandro lynch. My problem eith him is that I think he knows too much. He's also got the most people consolidated on him. How the fuck does that make him scum? | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:16 syllogism wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2012 05:59 marvellosity wrote: On November 24 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote: A lot of things he has said so far have been a little off and I agree that question is one of those. what do you think of kita's play so far? his proposal of cave as a lynch candidate, his support with no reasoning for sandroba? some of his earlier reads that felt weakly thought through? I agree that his reads, or at least the reasoning behind them, have been weak as is often the case when he is mafia. The way he suggests Cave as an "alternative" while still stressing that he would love to lynch sandroba is also suspicious. Cave may be mafia, but I don't understand what his plan is because he has essentially guaranteed that he will never be selected to the party. I think his very first post said that he shouldn't be selected; would he do that as mafia and would his team allow it? Third party seems more likely. Kita's early attacks were focused on me over sandroba and the attacks were very weak. He never addressed sandroba directly, except when sandro asked him a random question. Here he paints me, marvel and sandro red http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984163 50 minutes later he says he hasn't read sandro's filter yet and says sandro's posts have been reasonable and logical (although he says that doesn't make him town) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984518 The turkey post wasn't obviously completely serious, but seems weird to paint us red as a joke do you think he has a decent chance of being mafia then? is sandroba more likely mafia to you simply because you are more intimate with his play? | ||
Acrofales
Spain17799 Posts
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TheChronicler
Macedonia260 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:19 Keirathi wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2012 06:17 TheChronicler wrote: I still like a Sandro lynch. My problem eith him is that I think he knows too much. He's also got the most people consolidated on him. How the fuck does that make him scum? It doesn't? Why read into it like that? | ||
TheChronicler
Macedonia260 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:21 Acrofales wrote: Regarding Prom: I have him on my list of people to read and figure out at some point. I definitely don't have a town read on him at the moment, but he is not a high priority either. I am still mainly looking at GK, Kita, Sandro and of course Chronicler. Have you even responded to anything I've said? | ||
Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:21 TheChronicler wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2012 06:19 Keirathi wrote: On November 24 2012 06:17 TheChronicler wrote: I still like a Sandro lynch. My problem eith him is that I think he knows too much. He's also got the most people consolidated on him. How the fuck does that make him scum? It doesn't? Why read into it like that? You were giving reasons for why you wanted to lynch him. Our goal is to lynch scum. Therefore the bolded part of your post is completely, 100% irrelevant. So why did you even say it? | ||
Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:21 marvellosity wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2012 06:16 syllogism wrote: On November 24 2012 05:59 marvellosity wrote: On November 24 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote: A lot of things he has said so far have been a little off and I agree that question is one of those. what do you think of kita's play so far? his proposal of cave as a lynch candidate, his support with no reasoning for sandroba? some of his earlier reads that felt weakly thought through? I agree that his reads, or at least the reasoning behind them, have been weak as is often the case when he is mafia. The way he suggests Cave as an "alternative" while still stressing that he would love to lynch sandroba is also suspicious. Cave may be mafia, but I don't understand what his plan is because he has essentially guaranteed that he will never be selected to the party. I think his very first post said that he shouldn't be selected; would he do that as mafia and would his team allow it? Third party seems more likely. Kita's early attacks were focused on me over sandroba and the attacks were very weak. He never addressed sandroba directly, except when sandro asked him a random question. Here he paints me, marvel and sandro red http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984163 50 minutes later he says he hasn't read sandro's filter yet and says sandro's posts have been reasonable and logical (although he says that doesn't make him town) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984518 The turkey post wasn't obviously completely serious, but seems weird to paint us red as a joke do you think he has a decent chance of being mafia then? is sandroba more likely mafia to you simply because you are more intimate with his play? I wouldn't lynch kita today even if Sandro wasn't an option. I don't think the second question makes sense, but yes I can more accurately identify alignment of a player who I know extremely well. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:25 syllogism wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2012 06:21 marvellosity wrote: On November 24 2012 06:16 syllogism wrote: On November 24 2012 05:59 marvellosity wrote: On November 24 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote: A lot of things he has said so far have been a little off and I agree that question is one of those. what do you think of kita's play so far? his proposal of cave as a lynch candidate, his support with no reasoning for sandroba? some of his earlier reads that felt weakly thought through? I agree that his reads, or at least the reasoning behind them, have been weak as is often the case when he is mafia. The way he suggests Cave as an "alternative" while still stressing that he would love to lynch sandroba is also suspicious. Cave may be mafia, but I don't understand what his plan is because he has essentially guaranteed that he will never be selected to the party. I think his very first post said that he shouldn't be selected; would he do that as mafia and would his team allow it? Third party seems more likely. Kita's early attacks were focused on me over sandroba and the attacks were very weak. He never addressed sandroba directly, except when sandro asked him a random question. Here he paints me, marvel and sandro red http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984163 50 minutes later he says he hasn't read sandro's filter yet and says sandro's posts have been reasonable and logical (although he says that doesn't make him town) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984518 The turkey post wasn't obviously completely serious, but seems weird to paint us red as a joke do you think he has a decent chance of being mafia then? is sandroba more likely mafia to you simply because you are more intimate with his play? I wouldn't lynch kita today even if Sandro wasn't an option. I don't think the second question makes sense, but yes I can more accurately identify alignment of a player who I know extremely well. uh, what I was getting at is this: I find kita's play scummier than sandroba's, but as you know sandroba so well you find it easier to discern sand's alignment. I'm curious what you think kita has done to deserve NOT being lynched. | ||
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Anywho wanted to get to some of the more major suspicions in the thread atm. Regarding GoodKarma I still think GK is town. Primarily because of how he shut down his campaign and consolidated onto Syllo. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=65#1292 GoodKarma's campaign was gaining some traction at this point, and it would have been perfectly reasonable for him to continue on with it. His actions make very little sense from a scum perspective, as scum conceding a campaign with decent traction (and guaranteeing a strong town player control of D1) would be pretty stupid. It's possible to interpret his actions as a scum player sheeping onto another campaign due in order to not stand out, however, I find the former explanation much more convincing. If GK really wanted to hide, I doubt he would have campaigned. Regarding TheChronicler http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=17#331 He opens his game with a really strange proposal to be elected, planning to elect a team of three people who will then elect the party... strange. He's very obsessive about this "information" point and bolds it green a lot, even in future posts. He seems to want to treat this as a more "classical" mafia game - objecting to giving out town reads and wanting people to give stances. One could interpret this as a "stupid townie idea" however he has very little conviction when pushing it. He seems really ready to accept his idea was bad when contested only a little. Other than that, I think Acro's post pointing out his "reasoning" for voting Syllo was spot on. He never calls Syllo town - he just offers strange/irrelevant justifications to vote him. Regarding CaveJohnson Looking at his filter on it's face show's a player that's done pretty much nothing all game. However, Drazerk is apparently pretty "trolly" as town from what I've been reading in the thread. Notably, he really doesn't seem to give much of a shit about defending himself, and strikes me a a townie trait. Leaning town on him all things said and done. Will have to look into his meta more however. Regarding Sandroba Along similar lines as the read on GoodKarma, him completely abandoning his campaign and sheeping on Syllo doesn't make much sense from a scum perspective. Why guarentee a strong town player complete control over party selections? Makes no sense as scum. While his activity dipped down today, the day is still young, and I can't blame people for lack of activity on Thanksgiving. I'm not ready to vote Chronicler yet because I have other people to consider. Promethelax sticks out in my mind as someone who needs a lookin-over. Too many damn filters in this game. >> | ||
Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
I am posting this case mainly to show people that there is a very strong argument to be had for Sand being scum, despite everyone just brushing it off as "lurker lynch votes" Sandroba is scum. First of, if you haven't read my case from D1 yet, please do so now: + Show Spoiler + On November 23 2012 03:09 Clarity_nl wrote: Sandroba. Why are people voting for this guy? Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 11:08 sandroba wrote: @kita I was under that impression because your filter is rather short and I fail to find anything in there that provides your reads or opinions on subjects being discussed. When you came back you posted a generic post with several names in red including mine and no reasoning and still never commented on anything. Let us work our way backwards in his filter, starting from this post, where he advocates against electing Kita because Kita has not provided his reads or opinions on subjects being discussed. Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 10:10 sandroba wrote: On November 22 2012 04:05 syllogism wrote: Sandroba: when you are back, I would like to know if you have reconsidered Dienosore at all based on new content, in addition to explaining what about clarity_nl's play you find suspect. Some kind of mafia reads would also be helpful. Also any thoughts regarding the current candidate situation? I had clarity as scum, but I'm kinda torn on it right now after the marv/clarity exchange. I took a look at mario and it does look similar. Earlier he was pouncing with one-liners on weak stuff people posted and that tipped me off. And about Die, yeah I still think he is town. What makes you dissagree? The first mention of any kind of read he has (remember, we're working backwards), it's on me, he found me scum but now he doesn't know. Null. Why did he used to find me scum? Not sure, the only other mention of me is the reason he had to make the above post, that mention being this: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 22:25 sandroba wrote: I wont take clarity with me if I get elected. He smells funny. So we never got to know why I was scum to him, but that's okay because he's no longer sure, right? I don't think so. To me this seems like jumping on the (at the time) easy "lynch" I'd make. But then backing off because it was hard to pin me on something. Next up, we have this: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. I'm fairly certain he's town, is his entire read. Only when asked does he explain why. Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote: On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote: On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. This boils down to a meta read. If you take away the meta, all that is left is him saying: "He said he'd be lazy but he isn't" Meta reads aren't always bad, of course, but it should never be the crux of your argument unless someone is WAY off their town meta. Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 18:26 sandroba wrote: On November 21 2012 18:13 Keirathi wrote: Syllogism/sandroba: You guys have ignored us, but what do you think of Toads reasoning for me being scum? Do you think I'm scum? What about Deinos 2 scum reads and 2 town reads? Agree or disagree with any of them? I wouldn't put you as a town read, but I don't agree with toads case on you. I'll say nothing point to me one way or another so far. About deinos I agree on oats as I've said before. Not quite sure on acro still, I'd put him the same as you. GK and djo I'm slightly leaning town so far. "I don't know, you're null. Here's a list of slight townreads with no explanation." Moving further back. Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 17:52 sandroba wrote: come'on look at the way he entered the thread. that's like as townie as it gets =P either way you have your share bit of work to do to =P. I guess I'll know by day 2? His very first strong read, yet somehow it is much earlier in the thread than the stuff covered above. This post is referring to Dieno. There's not much reasoning to it, the only being that scum wouldn't enter into the game like that. I think this is fair and not alignment indicative, but since we're pointing out all the reads I think it's only fair to point out his only strong read thus far. This is also where the reads end, because we are in the early earlygame at this point. There is some setup speculation, which makes sense given we're in a heavily themed game. My point to all of this, is this: Sand has not had any strong reads, and the reads he has had have had bad or no reasoning. He's is currently trying to get elected, and has had some backing. Why are people not demanding stronger reads from him? Especially when he is demanding them from others? Why is sand not working harder at making reads, when he is running for the election? Wanting to get elected is not alignment indicative. His reads or logic isn't alignment indicative. Why does he not look/try to look townie when he is running for the election? In my eyes, this makes him badly played scum or a third party role because a townie who is running for election would be trying harder to get elected, or at the very least to get strong reads out there. In this case, I clearly show that Sand is not transparent. This in itself is fine, Syllo was not transparent and people voted for him. But note the very first quote in my case, he says Kita is not being transparent enough, not giving out enough reads etc. After a grand total of 1 strong read, a read that many before him had made, he proclaims that others should be more transparent and share more reads. Even if we accept that he is just being a hypocrit, after this post he still does not share reads or thoughts. Sand comes out of the gate by saying he is running for the election, he is open, transparent and willing to listen to others: On November 21 2012 11:17 sandroba wrote: I hereby declare I want to lead you simpletons to victory. My party selection will be as following: I will choose 3 of the less known players who I read as town at the end of the day to compose the party. The reasoning is that this mechanic will greatly favor town in attempting to confirm players. This is better done for players less likely to get shot for 2 reasons: 1) They have less meta information available on them therefore harder to read. 2) Vets/Well known players are likely to get killed n1 if they are town, even more so given a successful mission, mitigating some of the advantage town might get. This serves to both preserve the good/known players and to keep the confirmed/likely town around longer. I'd like everyone to chime in on this subject of party selection and help come to the optimum way of doing things. Add to that a little confidence: On November 21 2012 11:19 sandroba wrote: I see that everyone went completely the opposite way of tackling this issue as I have so far. Of course I am right and you guys probably gave it no thought. and Sand is looking to be really eager to play in this game and share ideas. So how did he go from that, to this: On November 23 2012 21:51 sandroba wrote: Oh my it seems I'm the only person in the game that doesn't get to have a real life every so often. I spent the night at a girl's house ytd and only got home now. I thought I would give the thread a quick read before heading to bed (yes my sleep schedule is severely fucked up) and I see that suddenly I became the main wagon. Nice. Weekend is ahead and it will be extremelly busy and now I have to fight syllo induced mislynch just to prob face the same problem again the next day. Thx. I'll be here briefily if anyone want to interact, but I'm heading to bed. I took 125 dmg and got roleblocked. Now I don't know about you guys, but I read this as. "Fuck you all, I don't care, get a life, I'm gonna go back to lurking now" A complete 180 in his play over the course of 48 hours. Why? Well, we know it isn't because he desperately wanted to win the election, because in my D1 case I showed he didn't care about winning the election, especially if you take into account his absence the last 6 or so hours of D1. I believe him choosing to run for election was an easy excuse to not scumhunt. I believe him having such enthusiasm early in the game was faked. Faking enthusiasm doesn't generally last for long, as we can clearly see by Sand's changing behavior and activity. Please try to take this point of view and notice how his entire game so far suddenly makes sense. This next post just irks me: On November 23 2012 22:07 sandroba wrote: I am free to play, I'm posting more than the average person and I've contributed a lot. Mind you that 2 out of the 3 people syllo took with him I was planning on taking. I gave out a town read on syllo very early on. As to your question, obviously, since I am town. He has been paranoid about my alignment a lot of times in the past (of the top of my head merc mini mafia and that huge 80 player game), but normally he reaches the correct conclusion soon enough. His only contributions throughout the entire game has been the setup speculation at the very start. Now he claims that he was going to take two out of the three people that Syllo took. Somehow this gives him the credit? Or is he suggesting Syllo stole his idea? Regardless he is wrong and trying to paint himself as a helpful townie, now that he can't hide behind running for election anymore. Sand has shown no interest in helping town out. The only things he has shown interest in are setup speculation and running for the election. He is scum. | ||
Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On November 24 2012 06:28 marvellosity wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2012 06:25 syllogism wrote: On November 24 2012 06:21 marvellosity wrote: On November 24 2012 06:16 syllogism wrote: On November 24 2012 05:59 marvellosity wrote: On November 24 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote: A lot of things he has said so far have been a little off and I agree that question is one of those. what do you think of kita's play so far? his proposal of cave as a lynch candidate, his support with no reasoning for sandroba? some of his earlier reads that felt weakly thought through? I agree that his reads, or at least the reasoning behind them, have been weak as is often the case when he is mafia. The way he suggests Cave as an "alternative" while still stressing that he would love to lynch sandroba is also suspicious. Cave may be mafia, but I don't understand what his plan is because he has essentially guaranteed that he will never be selected to the party. I think his very first post said that he shouldn't be selected; would he do that as mafia and would his team allow it? Third party seems more likely. Kita's early attacks were focused on me over sandroba and the attacks were very weak. He never addressed sandroba directly, except when sandro asked him a random question. Here he paints me, marvel and sandro red http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984163 50 minutes later he says he hasn't read sandro's filter yet and says sandro's posts have been reasonable and logical (although he says that doesn't make him town) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984518 The turkey post wasn't obviously completely serious, but seems weird to paint us red as a joke do you think he has a decent chance of being mafia then? is sandroba more likely mafia to you simply because you are more intimate with his play? I wouldn't lynch kita today even if Sandro wasn't an option. I don't think the second question makes sense, but yes I can more accurately identify alignment of a player who I know extremely well. uh, what I was getting at is this: I find kita's play scummier than sandroba's, but as you know sandroba so well you find it easier to discern sand's alignment. I'm curious what you think kita has done to deserve NOT being lynched. I'm less certain of him and I can lynch only one per day. I lynch players based on the strength of my read, that's it (except sometimes I may opt not to lynch my strongest read on day 1 if I'm not certain and the player in question is a very good town player). I think it's likely that I would prefer goodkarma lynch today over kita. But I'm not going to waste time on hypotheticals and I don't see why you are wasting time interrogating me when I'm about as confirmed town as one can be. | ||
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