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Also regarding austin being on 2#, here are my explanations for it
On October 18 2012 17:17 Djodref wrote:Regarding austin being in 2nd position, I think he deserves it for two reasons - his washy-washy case against me (I'm looking scum but I'm town on a gut feeling)
- him hard-tunneling mementoss when the latter one has showed pro-town play lately
and also because it's more likely for all the others to be town.
I was also here at the deadline and I didn't believe his claim so I didn't want to change my vote list except for preventing a mislynch on Daoud. You could have as well tried to bus austin 
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@VE
What I said is totally in line with the paragraph of Djo's message.
On October 19 2012 14:12 Djodref wrote:
That's why we need absolutely to lynch one mafia member tomorrow. On the opposite, mafia has to kill the players with the most town cred (provided they are not mafia themselves) to increase their chances to lead to a mislynch.
Mafia would normally target one of the towniest people in order to promote a mislynch.
Yes my post could be interpreted as scummy, but you telling that makes me even more thing you are playing a double game.
I know my alignment and it sounds pretty odd to me for a town person to scream out loud to save someone at the last moment and remind it 10min after the lynch.
Why not pushing to save him instead with a structured case like Djodref did with me, way before the end of the day ?
I was on the top of the lynch ladder but Djo's case made me slowly but surely go down.
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djo I'm starting to come around to your case against hiro/ve
actually I think I really want to lynch VE
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I would lynch ve. Not sure if he's scum but if he is that would feel really good so it's worth it.
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This game is so frustrating sometimes...
How can I push anybody if people don't really read my cases ?
Anyway I'm glad you have changed your mind. For the moment, VE is quite aggressive against me but I would like him to answer my questions.
@VE
Where were you yesterday ?
Why should an hypothetical medic target you ?
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@Kush
You had a town read on Hiro, you need to come with better explanations than this.
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Seriously kush, if you are town, you cannot afford to play like this anymore because I believe that we are going to be a mislynch away from defeat. And right now, you could be a perfect mislynch (or a perfect lynch I don't know anymore after all the austin stuff).
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djo u read your cases they are just not convincing
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What are you thoughts about the potato ?
So who do you think are the remaining mafia ?
And who do you think is going to be NKed ?
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do not speculate about nk before it happens.
potato tells us nothing
who is mafia? no clue
I think someone should do the legwork to see if Hiro scum is capable of d1 play like that. I will do it when I get time.
Ve is notoriously hard to read. The fact that he is a replacement makes it even easier for him to conceal his alignment. Don't even try to read VE IMO. fucking impossible. Also I'm gradually learning that his scumreads are pretty garbage for a vet, so don't trust those either even if you think he is town.
@Ve those things you critisized daoud for, can't they ve explained by newbness?
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On October 19 2012 10:53 Hopeless1der wrote:
mmt have you had a chance to see austin's new tunnel?
no I haven't but im hoping it is the same as my brand new hunch
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Are people ACTUALLY blaming me for the austin lynch?
I can't be at the thread at ALL times. I said why Austin was town. IWASRIGHT. I actively tried to push other people.
People that coulda died which woulda gave us ANY information.
-da0d (people are still gunna wonder about day 2 and ET sandroba last words)
-Djo/kush (ro3 hopeless matchup and seemed generally scummy)
-what did we learn about austin, well I learned something other than me being right, but its not time to disclose it, I hope others noticed
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Medic on me tonight. If we have a medic your doing a piss poor job because of the early night kills were obvious. I doubt we have a medic and I'm just saying this to scare scum.
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@Mementoss
On October 18 2012 11:30 Djodref wrote:Regarding Daoud defense, here is a compilation of my previous posts on the subject. I didn't get so much feedback so I'm putting them here again. You can skip it if you have already read it but I would appreciate you taking a second look at it. Here I present what lead us to prplhz mislynch and why I think we are also risking a mislynch on daoud + Show Spoiler +On October 17 2012 01:00 Djodref wrote:
Why we shouldn't lynch Daoud
My main point here is that we have made a mistake while lynching prplhz and I'm afraid that we might do it again if we were to lynch Daoud. First I would like to compare the reasons why we want to lynch them. + Show Spoiler +I've tried to analyze the reasons which lead to the D2 prplhz's debacle. At that time, prplhz felt like the perfect lynch candidate. Mainly because of the following reasons - Questionable post quality
- Pushing Sandroba lynch, then backing off
- Attempt to get town credit for his last minute "save"
- Association with ON
- Holding onto the potato (scum players are known to like potato)
- Wanting to blow ET with his potato
Now let's take a look at the reasons advanced for daoud's lynch - OMGUSing, using weird logic to find scum
- Pushing Sandroba lynch, then having a very poor defense for his actions
- Association with ON
- Wanting for the majority to decide what to do with his potato (he didn't get to hold the potato at all but w/e)
If you see anything thing big that I have missed, I would enjoy to discuss it. Anyway, there are some common reasons between these two and I think that some of them are just not so good. I'm not saying that they are not valid but I don't think they should carry too much weight in our scumhunt. I'm going to elaborate the push of Sandroba and the association with ON in the next spoiler. Among us, we have been a lot to suspect Sandro during the first stages of D1: he didn't randomly advance to the finals. When you look at his filter until the following post, he looks pretty scummy. On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote:
I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate.
My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum.
This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. I've been wanting to lynch him at this point and it was the same for Thrawn, Kush, and Daoud. I've haven't been here to witness the rise of town Sandro later on but I think it was totally ok to have wanted to lynch him at that time. We shouldn't have blamed prplhz for this and we should not blame anybody for this. After that, prplhz didn't realize his mistake fast enough and I guess that daoud wasn't even here to see the real town Sandro as he missed all the deadlines. Regarding the Daoud's defense regarding his vote, I would agree that it looks pretty bad. I don't want to give him total clearance because of this precise point but given the general level of his posts and his awareness of the game, I can imagine him as total town newbie with clumsy defense.
ON was a lurker. I don't know what we can guess from his few interactions with the world. The two votes he threw on me were not even useful, I don't see any purpose for them. They might have been real panic votes, maybe not. We don't know.
Same, anybody could say anything about a lurker. Mafia can try to bus or to save. Town can say scummy or townie (see prplhz as an extreme example). The thing is that he was a lurker. We cannot have anything tangible from this.
If we discard the previous reasons, here is what is left - OMGUSing, using weird logic to find scum
- Wanting for the majority to decide what to do with his potato (he didn't get to hold the potato at all but w/e)
I think these reasons are not a making a solid enough case. He could be newb scum or he could be newb town but my guts are leaning towards town when I read his filter. Especially when he has tried to improve his play during potato day. Regarding the potato, prplhz didn't pass it and it was not town in my eyes but maybe you see things differently when you have everybody on your back. One last thing. When I'm looking back at D2, I have a feeling this day was wasted. Because we had two obvious targets, we didn't think about if they were the right targets or not. Please think how easy it would be to push such mislynches when no one is thinking twice. Mafia totally got us and I bet they were enjoying nice holidays. Daoud is looking scummy but he is not the right target. I have a strong feeling that he is in fact a newbie that is going to be mislynched. I would prefer than we not lynch him and focus on the right targets starting from tomorrow. I'm going to present them to you in my following posts. Here is my second defense from Daoud. It is based on my take of the different strategies mafia could use with the killings of Sandro and ET. I've realized that Hopeless was looking even worse while writing this post so I mention him in it. It was before I could read Mementoss post and it is not relevant regarding my reasoning. + Show Spoiler +On October 17 2012 20:58 Djodref wrote:First things first, regardless of daoud possible alignment, we could all agree that he is a total newbie, he doesn't know how to scumhunt nor defending himself properly and he has some weird posts. I'm also going to assume that we have 3 mafia players in this game. And here is what I've found while reading the game. These are statements made by Sandroba and ET the night where they were killed. We have straightforward posts from both of them. Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 16:57 sandroba wrote:
Just lynch da0ud, then prplhz, then you figure the rest out if the game is not over. Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 14:19 EchelonTee wrote:
need to lynch da0ud.
tunneling is not an inherently bad thing. Another way to phrase it is "focusing on someone you think is scum and getting them lynched". Calling kush scummy for tunneling doesn't make sense. Tunneling is an inherent part of playing the game, unless you enjoy being unfocused. Let's make the assumption that daoud is a scum newbie+ Show Spoiler +So there is ON, daoud and one unlucky guy in the scumteam. In this case, the killings of Sandroba and ET may have been motivated by a surviving strategy. ON has been lynched D1 and the team wants to protect daoud from a lynch. I can imagine such a strategy from the mafia scumteam, especially when things start to look bad when ON advances to the final. But imagine now that you are the last mafia, this one unlucky guy - Do you really think that protecting daoud is a good strategy ? Maybe you should just bus him hard...
- Do you allow him to go in OMGUS mode on Sandroba, after a "hunch" ?
- On top of that, do you let him cast 9 ninja votes on Sandroba, without posting at all during R4 ?
- Don't you tell him to just shut up because every defensive post he does makes him look even worse ?
There is only one possibility and you know it, this one unlucky guy has to be kush in this case. (This is just a joke, kush has been terribad as scum in my last newbie, no hard feelings kush <3) Let's make the assumption that daoud is a town newbie+ Show Spoiler +
I know it's bad but let's imagine that you are the mafia right now.
You and your evil mafia partner have been noticing how easily you could push a mislynch on daoud or prplhz after their unfortunate votes on Sandroba. His last will post is just a gift from the gods to achieve your evil plans and you do not hesitate to kill this guy who would have been a pain in the ass anyway.
After a wearisome D1 where one of your partner have been lynched for inactivity, you just have to post
"lol, daoud and prplhz so scum, just pass the potato to each other, gg" (everybody did it, maybe some irritating guy like mementoss was trying to say something else but you weren't paying attention anyway because you were on holidays)
And there you are, N2, and you discover another gift of the gods in the last will of the unfortunate ET. Kill this guy, push a mislynch on the newbie (hello Hopeless) and it's almost gg.
I know there is a lot of speculation about the actions of the mafia in this post. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I would really appreciate some feedback on this because I don't know if I'm just wasting my time thinking about why the mafia have killed Sandro and ET. But right now, I'm pretty sure daoud would be a mislynch and I would really like to convince you so. /snip Now I would like the people wanting to lynch daoud ask themselves the following questions, assuming that daoud is scum - What is doing his scumbuddy in the mafiaQT ? Because obviously he is not trying to help him...
- Why daoud did not use his 9 votes at all during the match-up between Hopeless and ON ? If I remember correctly, ON was set to advance for a long time before kush decided to vote bomb Hopeless. I cannot imagine a scum newb like daoud not trying to save his partner.
Regarding daoud, do you have some answers for the questions I wanted you to ask yourself if you though he was scum ?
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VE fuck sakes why didn't you come back into the thread yesterday and realize how bad the austin lynch was
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Obviously he doesn't care who is going to be lynched because he is scum.
By the way, did you re-read Hiro's filter with my new points on it ?
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On October 19 2012 20:35 Djodref wrote:@MementossShow nested quote +On October 18 2012 11:30 Djodref wrote:Regarding Daoud defense, here is a compilation of my previous posts on the subject. I didn't get so much feedback so I'm putting them here again. You can skip it if you have already read it but I would appreciate you taking a second look at it. Here I present what lead us to prplhz mislynch and why I think we are also risking a mislynch on daoud + Show Spoiler +On October 17 2012 01:00 Djodref wrote:
Why we shouldn't lynch Daoud
My main point here is that we have made a mistake while lynching prplhz and I'm afraid that we might do it again if we were to lynch Daoud. First I would like to compare the reasons why we want to lynch them. + Show Spoiler +I've tried to analyze the reasons which lead to the D2 prplhz's debacle. At that time, prplhz felt like the perfect lynch candidate. Mainly because of the following reasons - Questionable post quality
- Pushing Sandroba lynch, then backing off
- Attempt to get town credit for his last minute "save"
- Association with ON
- Holding onto the potato (scum players are known to like potato)
- Wanting to blow ET with his potato
Now let's take a look at the reasons advanced for daoud's lynch - OMGUSing, using weird logic to find scum
- Pushing Sandroba lynch, then having a very poor defense for his actions
- Association with ON
- Wanting for the majority to decide what to do with his potato (he didn't get to hold the potato at all but w/e)
If you see anything thing big that I have missed, I would enjoy to discuss it. Anyway, there are some common reasons between these two and I think that some of them are just not so good. I'm not saying that they are not valid but I don't think they should carry too much weight in our scumhunt. I'm going to elaborate the push of Sandroba and the association with ON in the next spoiler. Among us, we have been a lot to suspect Sandro during the first stages of D1: he didn't randomly advance to the finals. When you look at his filter until the following post, he looks pretty scummy. On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote:
I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate.
My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum.
This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. I've been wanting to lynch him at this point and it was the same for Thrawn, Kush, and Daoud. I've haven't been here to witness the rise of town Sandro later on but I think it was totally ok to have wanted to lynch him at that time. We shouldn't have blamed prplhz for this and we should not blame anybody for this. After that, prplhz didn't realize his mistake fast enough and I guess that daoud wasn't even here to see the real town Sandro as he missed all the deadlines. Regarding the Daoud's defense regarding his vote, I would agree that it looks pretty bad. I don't want to give him total clearance because of this precise point but given the general level of his posts and his awareness of the game, I can imagine him as total town newbie with clumsy defense.
ON was a lurker. I don't know what we can guess from his few interactions with the world. The two votes he threw on me were not even useful, I don't see any purpose for them. They might have been real panic votes, maybe not. We don't know.
Same, anybody could say anything about a lurker. Mafia can try to bus or to save. Town can say scummy or townie (see prplhz as an extreme example). The thing is that he was a lurker. We cannot have anything tangible from this.
If we discard the previous reasons, here is what is left - OMGUSing, using weird logic to find scum
- Wanting for the majority to decide what to do with his potato (he didn't get to hold the potato at all but w/e)
I think these reasons are not a making a solid enough case. He could be newb scum or he could be newb town but my guts are leaning towards town when I read his filter. Especially when he has tried to improve his play during potato day. Regarding the potato, prplhz didn't pass it and it was not town in my eyes but maybe you see things differently when you have everybody on your back. One last thing. When I'm looking back at D2, I have a feeling this day was wasted. Because we had two obvious targets, we didn't think about if they were the right targets or not. Please think how easy it would be to push such mislynches when no one is thinking twice. Mafia totally got us and I bet they were enjoying nice holidays. Daoud is looking scummy but he is not the right target. I have a strong feeling that he is in fact a newbie that is going to be mislynched. I would prefer than we not lynch him and focus on the right targets starting from tomorrow. I'm going to present them to you in my following posts. Here is my second defense from Daoud. It is based on my take of the different strategies mafia could use with the killings of Sandro and ET. I've realized that Hopeless was looking even worse while writing this post so I mention him in it. It was before I could read Mementoss post and it is not relevant regarding my reasoning. + Show Spoiler +On October 17 2012 20:58 Djodref wrote:First things first, regardless of daoud possible alignment, we could all agree that he is a total newbie, he doesn't know how to scumhunt nor defending himself properly and he has some weird posts. I'm also going to assume that we have 3 mafia players in this game. And here is what I've found while reading the game. These are statements made by Sandroba and ET the night where they were killed. We have straightforward posts from both of them. Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 16:57 sandroba wrote:
Just lynch da0ud, then prplhz, then you figure the rest out if the game is not over. Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 14:19 EchelonTee wrote:
need to lynch da0ud.
tunneling is not an inherently bad thing. Another way to phrase it is "focusing on someone you think is scum and getting them lynched". Calling kush scummy for tunneling doesn't make sense. Tunneling is an inherent part of playing the game, unless you enjoy being unfocused. Let's make the assumption that daoud is a scum newbie+ Show Spoiler +So there is ON, daoud and one unlucky guy in the scumteam. In this case, the killings of Sandroba and ET may have been motivated by a surviving strategy. ON has been lynched D1 and the team wants to protect daoud from a lynch. I can imagine such a strategy from the mafia scumteam, especially when things start to look bad when ON advances to the final. But imagine now that you are the last mafia, this one unlucky guy - Do you really think that protecting daoud is a good strategy ? Maybe you should just bus him hard...
- Do you allow him to go in OMGUS mode on Sandroba, after a "hunch" ?
- On top of that, do you let him cast 9 ninja votes on Sandroba, without posting at all during R4 ?
- Don't you tell him to just shut up because every defensive post he does makes him look even worse ?
There is only one possibility and you know it, this one unlucky guy has to be kush in this case. (This is just a joke, kush has been terribad as scum in my last newbie, no hard feelings kush <3) Let's make the assumption that daoud is a town newbie+ Show Spoiler +
I know it's bad but let's imagine that you are the mafia right now.
You and your evil mafia partner have been noticing how easily you could push a mislynch on daoud or prplhz after their unfortunate votes on Sandroba. His last will post is just a gift from the gods to achieve your evil plans and you do not hesitate to kill this guy who would have been a pain in the ass anyway.
After a wearisome D1 where one of your partner have been lynched for inactivity, you just have to post
"lol, daoud and prplhz so scum, just pass the potato to each other, gg" (everybody did it, maybe some irritating guy like mementoss was trying to say something else but you weren't paying attention anyway because you were on holidays)
And there you are, N2, and you discover another gift of the gods in the last will of the unfortunate ET. Kill this guy, push a mislynch on the newbie (hello Hopeless) and it's almost gg.
I know there is a lot of speculation about the actions of the mafia in this post. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I would really appreciate some feedback on this because I don't know if I'm just wasting my time thinking about why the mafia have killed Sandro and ET. But right now, I'm pretty sure daoud would be a mislynch and I would really like to convince you so. /snip Now I would like the people wanting to lynch daoud ask themselves the following questions, assuming that daoud is scum - What is doing his scumbuddy in the mafiaQT ? Because obviously he is not trying to help him...
- Why daoud did not use his 9 votes at all during the match-up between Hopeless and ON ? If I remember correctly, ON was set to advance for a long time before kush decided to vote bomb Hopeless. I cannot imagine a scum newb like daoud not trying to save his partner.
Regarding daoud, do you have some answers for the questions I wanted you to ask yourself if you though he was scum ?
Let me say one thing, "There are bigger fish to fry".
If it is mylo tomorrow and the no-lynch is possible do it. You have so many scummy things but a lot of your posts come off as concerned townie.
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I guess the key to this game is distinguishing scum from really stupid.
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EPT
