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mkfuba, what is your read on Node? How do you view annul's actions before the lynch?
BC, is this still your line of thinking:On October 02 2012 08:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 08:44 marvellosity wrote:
Ugh, too much screwing meta. I don't really want to lynch austin because I know he can be totally useless day 1 as here, and others don't want to lynch the pretty scummy annul because they want to wait and see.
Why do you think austin has a higher chance of flipping scum than annul, BC? Austin did what I think is insanely weird play and jumped out at me as scummy whereas annul has only done things that leap out and scream annul. He is one of the few people I find extremely hard to read and always have.
coagulation, your whole D1 is shady sands and z-boson. What's your read of Node? Also, if you were a fake fortune-telling gypsy, and BroodKingEXE walked into your fortune telling shop and asked you who the third party in this game was, what would you tell him? (Don't use any real fortune-telling powers you have, fake fortune-teller only)
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On October 03 2012 01:03 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Kreb:
Did austin's recent posts change your read? What do you make of his apprehension of your post?
Initially, nothing made me change my view of him. He came into the thread at a time when there were votes starting to get dropped his way. Joining the thread is a proper town move at that point, and also pointing out scummyness with other players also. However its not exactly a super crafty move to pull as mafia either, and the cases werent very strong if you ask me. But overall his initial posts gave me nothing on him which had him locked on the scummy side since before.
Since then, two things have made me slightly less suspicious of austin:
- His mega-case on annul. Not that I agree with all points, and it seemed he retracted some parts of it, but the extensiveness and the fact that he kept on contributing after being "saved" is towny.
- Marv correctly pointing out that the last 5 votes was on Shady when the Node-wagon started. That doesnt make the wagon less suspicious, and it doesnt clear those who started the wagon in any way. But if makes it less likely that the purpose of the wagon was to disctract town from an austin-lynch.
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EBWOP
But overall his initial posts gave me nothing new on him which had me keeping him locked on the scummy side since before.
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On October 03 2012 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kreb , are you saying that because marv and whoever else pushed a node lynch away from the shady lynch that means you're suspicious of them? Shady flipped green so I don't see how that argument makes sense. You say the node lynch was unnatural and possibly pushed by scum which if true would mean that node is green and shady is red.... but shady is green so I'm not understanding your logic.
Well, theres is still the possibility of it being an austin-distraction.
Or just as a general distraction from, well, any mafia.
Theres also the purpose of just pushing for different townies left and right because it both creates confusion and probably makes it easier to blend in (if theres votes all over the place, everything is "ok", so mafia can pick any stance they want and seem genuine with it).
I still dont see Node as scummy at all from his posting, and the way that wagon happened makes him look on the townish side.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 03 2012 04:41 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kreb , are you saying that because marv and whoever else pushed a node lynch away from the shady lynch that means you're suspicious of them? Shady flipped green so I don't see how that argument makes sense. You say the node lynch was unnatural and possibly pushed by scum which if true would mean that node is green and shady is red.... but shady is green so I'm not understanding your logic. Well, theres is still the possibility of it being an austin-distraction. Or just as a general distraction from, well, any mafia. Theres also the purpose of just pushing for different townies left and right because it both creates confusion and probably makes it easier to blend in (if theres votes all over the place, everything is "ok", so mafia can pick any stance they want and seem genuine with it). I still dont see Node as scummy at all from his posting, and the way that wagon happened makes him look on the townish side.
You're not making sense. The Node push makes no sense from a mafia distraction point of view because Shady was a townie heading inexorably for the lynch. It's in these situations mafia are usually happy to sit back as town happily hops on to the townie wagon.
On Node: tell me, does his posting look like he cares for town? iamperfection pointed it out perfectly earlier: When Node was at great risk of being lynched, did he come in to drop reads and shit? No, he came in to call town stupid, and then promptly left again without making any reads or anything. How are you reading this as townie? You also, presumably from your attitude, find his defence of Shady townie. How?
Want to talk about your connection stuff a little. You don't even realise how strongly you're doing it, or how it's affecting how you think. We have:
On October 02 2012 08:23 Kreb wrote:
Anyway, time to put down my vote. Disregarding the first trio (kush/kj/shady) which Ive said Im not feeling too good about.
-snip-
Austin on the other hand indeed had a pretty bad reason to vote for KJ. And his obsession with the spy comment seem a bit..... out of place. Cant say Im feeling super convinced about this either considering how early it is into the game and the length of peoples filters, but meh, gotta place my vote somewhere.
As such: ##Vote austinmcc
You place your vote on him and you're not sure at all. Your very next post goes into theories about the Node wagon and how it looked and how it makes austin look much worse (which I think I've helped establish that it doesn't really). So you, yourself, never actually had strong feelings on austin if the quote above is true, until you started ladeling Node/austin/me/VE/wagon stuff on top of it.
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On October 03 2012 04:41 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kreb , are you saying that because marv and whoever else pushed a node lynch away from the shady lynch that means you're suspicious of them? Shady flipped green so I don't see how that argument makes sense. You say the node lynch was unnatural and possibly pushed by scum which if true would mean that node is green and shady is red.... but shady is green so I'm not understanding your logic. Well, theres is still the possibility of it being an austin-distraction. Or just as a general distraction from, well, any mafia. Theres also the purpose of just pushing for different townies left and right because it both creates confusion and probably makes it easier to blend in (if theres votes all over the place, everything is "ok", so mafia can pick any stance they want and seem genuine with it). I still dont see Node as scummy at all from his posting, and the way that wagon happened makes him look on the townish side.
Those are all possibilities, yes, but I don't see why you're making this case unless you have reason to believe one of those possibilities are likely. And since the only information given so far is that shady was green, I don't understand your confidence in your accusations. If you're gonna make that case then you're gonna have to come up with more than "well it's a possibility."
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On October 03 2012 04:46 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 04:41 Kreb wrote:On October 03 2012 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kreb , are you saying that because marv and whoever else pushed a node lynch away from the shady lynch that means you're suspicious of them? Shady flipped green so I don't see how that argument makes sense. You say the node lynch was unnatural and possibly pushed by scum which if true would mean that node is green and shady is red.... but shady is green so I'm not understanding your logic. Well, theres is still the possibility of it being an austin-distraction. Or just as a general distraction from, well, any mafia. Theres also the purpose of just pushing for different townies left and right because it both creates confusion and probably makes it easier to blend in (if theres votes all over the place, everything is "ok", so mafia can pick any stance they want and seem genuine with it). I still dont see Node as scummy at all from his posting, and the way that wagon happened makes him look on the townish side. You're not making sense. The Node push makes no sense from a mafia distraction point of view because Shady was a townie heading inexorably for the lynch. It's in these situations mafia are usually happy to sit back as town happily hops on to the townie wagon. On Node: tell me, does his posting look like he cares for town? iamperfection pointed it out perfectly earlier: When Node was at great risk of being lynched, did he come in to drop reads and shit? No, he came in to call town stupid, and then promptly left again without making any reads or anything. How are you reading this as townie? You also, presumably from your attitude, find his defence of Shady townie. How? Want to talk about your connection stuff a little. You don't even realise how strongly you're doing it, or how it's affecting how you think. We have: Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 08:23 Kreb wrote:
Anyway, time to put down my vote. Disregarding the first trio (kush/kj/shady) which Ive said Im not feeling too good about.
-snip-
Austin on the other hand indeed had a pretty bad reason to vote for KJ. And his obsession with the spy comment seem a bit..... out of place. Cant say Im feeling super convinced about this either considering how early it is into the game and the length of peoples filters, but meh, gotta place my vote somewhere.
As such: ##Vote austinmcc
You place your vote on him and you're not sure at all. Your very next post goes into theories about the Node wagon and how it looked and how it makes austin look much worse (which I think I've helped establish that it doesn't really). So you, yourself, never actually had strong feelings on austin if the quote above is true, until you started ladeling Node/austin/me/VE/wagon stuff on top of it.
I dont find Node towny from his posting. I dont find Node scummy from his posting. Geez. He has a whole 3 posts and I dont find anything alignment indicative in any of them. Stop saying anything else. As for not posting more when he was getting voted on, I dont see how thats anything but a very very minor read in either direction. Yea I can see it being somewhat scummy, but its overshadowed by other happening.
For the second part: What words do you want me to use? Not feeling good/feeling kinda good/feeling ok/feeling so-so/feeling good/feeling confident/feeling kinda confidect/etc. I use the wording "not feeling super convinced". Maybe I couldve phrased it better, but thats what you got. "Feeling kinda good" or "feeling better than about any other voting target" would probably have been accurate descriptions of my feelings at that time too. Thats ok with you? I dont see anything contradictory in the wording I used though. And my wording feels like quite an irrelevant discussion and I dont like to have to spend my time defending that.
Heres a recap, hopefully we can drop this discussion after this, we're not doing any scumhunting atm (the last 12h has been all about me/you/austin/VE/annul/node, theres 18ppl neither posting nor being discussed) but I hate not responding to questions since it makes it look like I ignore them:
When I went to sleep: thinking austin was the best target
When I read the thread: going wtf over the Node-wagon, concluding that the most likely reason for such a wagon to occur is a distraction. If so, from who? Gotta be austin! Meaning scum read on austin increases.
After the recent discussion: Lowered my scum read on austin somewhat, still thinking the wagon is scummy as hell, considering other reasons as to why said wagon was started.
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Marv, I don't know kreb's play well/at all, but right now I'm not as scummy on him as I am on other players, and at the very least it seems that pushing him is just going to get things more and more twisted up.
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EBWOP: "not as scummy on him" is not correct, I'm actually not thinking he's scum right now. I don't exactly know why, except that I've got a bunch of other scumreads so he's kind of out on account of that.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote:
Marv, I don't know kreb's play well/at all, but right now I'm not as scummy on him as I am on other players, and at the very least it seems that pushing him is just going to get things more and more twisted up.
aye, it's why I've read his response and I'm not replying for now, as it's fruitless. I'm seeing him as misguided townie atm.
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can someone point to me to a time when austin was ever in real danger of getting lynched in the thread?
Also misguided townie i love that one marv might steal it.
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On October 03 2012 05:46 iamperfection wrote:
can someone point to me to a time when austin was ever in real danger of getting lynched in the thread?
Also misguided townie i love that one marv might steal it.
I may not be the best person to answer this, but I'm still not quite sure if I was.
I never got a bunch of votes, but sentiment seemed to be heading that way. Can't tell whether we would have had a big wagon or not, and tbh I can't tell whether some of the people suspicious of me or voting me were actually going to stick with it. I seem to always be mafia D1 to marv.
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//snip// with mod permission
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//snip// with mod permission
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you should probably just pm the host instead of making a scene.
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//snip// with mod permission
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
austin: that's because you always play so fking scummy for most of day 1 dear.
iamp: you may only use the term if you bring with it the sense of arrogance I use it with.
Anyway, Mattchew, come talk to me about your play, it's looking pretty damn scummy to me right now, especially after the first half of Day 1. You voted kj yesterday lunchtime or so, and we have this post:
On October 02 2012 08:21 Mattchew wrote:
BC mind telling me why you think i am scum?
also, I could get down with an austin lynch. he doesn't feel like he is hunting scum as much as he is hunting for an easy out to vote.
I am willing to ##unvote for the meantime. I am caught up on the thread but don't actually understand some of the arguments.
You 'unvote' here in the thread but you do no such thing in the Voting Thread. You also say you're down for an austin lynch here, but you never elaborate on this again, instead going on with:
On October 02 2012 08:47 Mattchew wrote:
lets lynch sloosh
On October 02 2012 08:49 Mattchew wrote:
sloosh hasnt done anything after coming in complaining about the thread being bad.
You don't talk about austin anymore at all, and instead casually suggest lynching slOosh. Except you never seem serious about it, you're just dropping his name there and off you go, not to be heard of again during the Day. You're gonna have to explain pretty well what you were thinking here as it looks scummy as shit to me. Posting for the sake of posting and not taking actually taking any real stances.
On October 03 2012 02:11 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 02:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
Someone shoot him. We can lynch Node easier than Annul, and I want them both dead.
Medics, on me and marv.
DTs, on BC and Mattchew.
We totally got this. I am down with this plan
Absolutely nothing to say on how the lynch went down or anything pertinent at all. Scum bro?
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On October 03 2012 04:30 austinmcc wrote:
mkfuba, what is your read on Node? How do you view annul's actions before the lynch? I'm still feeling really stupid for not being able to understand what's so scummy about Node's defense of Shady. There were plenty of good players voting for Node, and as town OR scum I don't see them voting for someone for stupid reasons. Despite what you've said before, I have been reading the thread. My reading comprehension being as crappy as it is, I can't pinpoint what makes his defense scummy. Did scum Node gain something from lying in his defense of Shady? Or was it just that he appeared to not be reading the thread, and is trying to participate with a minimum of effort/gaining some town-cred for defending town-Shady? Or something else entirely that I haven't considered because I'm bad at this game?
...(checking through filters)...
...And now, having more closely checked the the timestamps, which I incorrectly read last time, Node's jumped up quite a bit in scumminess. When I looked the first time, I missed the fact that the two posts (shady's last post where he actually made a read at all, and Node's defense) were on different days. I thought Node's happened within hours of Shady's FoS on kush, so I didn't really see it as too absurd for him to say that Shady had been pushing targets. I think I now understand why the defense was scummy (and I feel like a dumbass for not being able to read). Shady did nothing to warrant defending him, and the fact that Node defended him, with evidence that was the opposite of the truth, is strange. The fact that Node seemed to have reasons to find Shady town when the evidence he provides is contrived makes me think that he had another reason to believe Shady to be town that he didn't want to mention. Thus, Node seems scummy.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this feels right to me.
As for annul, at the time I was generally agreeing with much of what he said. I felt that the lynch on Node had arisen too quickly, and with poor-quality evidence, to not have been some kind of concerted effort. I find his attempt to start yet another wagon without providing reasoning for it at least slightly scummy, though if he didn't find either Shady or Node scummy then I'm not sure I'd fault him for voting for someone outside those two. The way he went about it, however, was pretty questionable. I'm going to have to reevaluate annul's play before the lynch with this new perspective I've gained regarding Node. Let me know if I was completely off about Node, so I won't continue being completely off about annul.
Also, I'm going to try to save us some time with a side note about myself: I'm generally wishy-washy. It's just how I am. I can read my own writing and see the indecision, but I can't give a more definitive answer. This is consistent throughout most, if not all, of my early games. I only truly become confident after I get concrete evidence through votes/flips, and I've only gotten that far a few times. I mention all of this because if I'm not being wishy-washy I either don't post or I lie to embellish how confident I am. Both of which seem more useless/dangerous than just posting my thoughts, so I'm just going to post what I think.
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Headed out soon for the evening, may not be back before deadline.
Node scum.
If node scum, annul and Z-BosoN scum.
mkfuba very scummy.
annul is odd no matter node's alignment, but I'd be much more convinced of SCUM if node is red.
slOosh's return and look at mattchew strike me as not-scum.
BC and coag feel kind of distant. BC entered thread with a lot of thoughts yesterday, but mainly just called half the thread scummy (mainly for doing things that were scummy). I wish he'd interacted more with thread towards deadline last night, and I wish he'd have some thoughts on people who aren't scummy and whatnot. Coag I have never played with, and he's kind of in the same boat - wherefore art thou Coageo?
I think the meta arguments on Kush are overblown. If he's got a clear town meta and scum meta, and then is clearly told the difference between those two, then the whole thing flies out the window slightly. Unless he's got oodles and oodles of games where he's clearly town or scum, he can just play like he normally would with less f bombs and know he'll look townie on meta. So I don't give them too much credence.
that leaves out a whole lotta players. Some, like BKE/Talismania were active early on and then completely absent.
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Any more to add about me, or is it just what you mentioned earler?
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EPT
