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On July 16 2012 06:48 sciberbia wrote:
"Heh heh heh. Town is trying to lynch one of us three scum: mattchew, talis, and gonzaw. How can I throw them off track? Oh I know! I'll leave my vote on sciberbia and mysteriously dissapear. Without my vote, there is no way they'll get a scum. Heh heh heh. I am the brilliant scum mastermind, Mattchew. And there's no way anyone will find my disapearence suspicious"
It's just ridiculous. His disappearing is a busytell, not a scumtell. If Mattchew was scum, how hard would it have been to just hang around and sheep marv's vote? Not that hard. Being around for the lynch but not doing anything (i.e. talis) is more suspicious than not being there at all.
Mattchew did very similar stuff in MTG. He went AFK for the WHOLE D1 and he didn't give a fuck about being called out.
Him being afk itself isn't worrying, it's worrying when it's obvious he doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't even trying to explain himself about his inactivity and lack of effort.
I'm torn because his earlier posts did seem townie, but that behaviour of his strikes some doubt (specially if it wasn't for some outside reason, like getting his internet connection cut or something).
I'll try to drop the subject before reading this thread and his case on talis; but this is basically exclusive since it's about his earlier behaviour.
gonzaw telling our vig to shoot Mattchew over this is one of the reasons I'm suspicious of gonzaw
That was marv
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On July 16 2012 06:49 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 06:45 Mattchew wrote:
So I couldn't have left 2 hours before the lynch? I wasn't voting Vivax, and my questions werent answered before I had left. Not without explaining why you kept your vote on sciberbia (if you knew you weren't going to be back before the deadline) ro explaining anything at all or if you still thought sciberbia was scum. Or anything at all basically. People not giving you an exact vote count isn't an excuse to waste your vote, leave the thread and come back 24 hours later without giving a shit about the lynch.
I had given my opinion on Vivax, because I wasn't confident in it doesn't mean I was ever going to vote to lynch him. So I left my opinions and my vote as they were
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On July 16 2012 06:53 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 06:48 sciberbia wrote:
"Heh heh heh. Town is trying to lynch one of us three scum: mattchew, talis, and gonzaw. How can I throw them off track? Oh I know! I'll leave my vote on sciberbia and mysteriously dissapear. Without my vote, there is no way they'll get a scum. Heh heh heh. I am the brilliant scum mastermind, Mattchew. And there's no way anyone will find my disapearence suspicious"
It's just ridiculous. His disappearing is a busytell, not a scumtell. If Mattchew was scum, how hard would it have been to just hang around and sheep marv's vote? Not that hard. Being around for the lynch but not doing anything (i.e. talis) is more suspicious than not being there at all. Mattchew did very similar stuff in MTG. He went AFK for the WHOLE D1 and he didn't give a fuck about being called out. Him being afk itself isn't worrying, it's worrying when it's obvious he doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't even trying to explain himself about his inactivity and lack of effort. I'm torn because his earlier posts did seem townie, but that behaviour of his strikes some doubt (specially if it wasn't for some outside reason, like getting his internet connection cut or something). I'll try to drop the subject before reading this thread and his case on talis; but this is basically exclusive since it's about his earlier behaviour. Show nested quote +gonzaw telling our vig to shoot Mattchew over this is one of the reasons I'm suspicious of gonzaw That was marv
Gonzaw do you really not see the difference between how mattchew is posting this game and how he posted in mtg?
I'm like 75 percent sure mattchew is town right now.
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On July 16 2012 06:55 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 06:49 gonzaw wrote:On July 16 2012 06:45 Mattchew wrote:
So I couldn't have left 2 hours before the lynch? I wasn't voting Vivax, and my questions werent answered before I had left. Not without explaining why you kept your vote on sciberbia (if you knew you weren't going to be back before the deadline) ro explaining anything at all or if you still thought sciberbia was scum. Or anything at all basically. People not giving you an exact vote count isn't an excuse to waste your vote, leave the thread and come back 24 hours later without giving a shit about the lynch. I had given my opinion on Vivax, because I wasn't confident in it doesn't mean I was ever going to vote to lynch him. So I left my opinions and my vote as they were
Vivax wasn't the 100% sure lynch at that point. Dropbear already had votes, and to be honest you could have voted for someone else like austin, Keriathi, etc since they had votes as well.
What made you keep your vote on sciberbia and not even consider changing it? What made you not even discuss about it? Or were you in too much of a hurry to explain stuff? If so you could have mentioned you were in a hurry before so we'd avoid this whole mess
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@gonzaw
Don't you think Mattchew expected to get some serious flak for disappearing? I just don't get why scum Mattchew would intentionally draw suspicion to himself unless he had a legit reason for vanishing. Hence why I think it's just a busytell and not alignment indicative.
I just don't see scum gonzaw expecting his useless vote to go unnoticed.
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EBWOP: scum mattchew, not scum gonzaw
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On July 16 2012 07:01 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 06:53 gonzaw wrote:On July 16 2012 06:48 sciberbia wrote:
"Heh heh heh. Town is trying to lynch one of us three scum: mattchew, talis, and gonzaw. How can I throw them off track? Oh I know! I'll leave my vote on sciberbia and mysteriously dissapear. Without my vote, there is no way they'll get a scum. Heh heh heh. I am the brilliant scum mastermind, Mattchew. And there's no way anyone will find my disapearence suspicious"
It's just ridiculous. His disappearing is a busytell, not a scumtell. If Mattchew was scum, how hard would it have been to just hang around and sheep marv's vote? Not that hard. Being around for the lynch but not doing anything (i.e. talis) is more suspicious than not being there at all. Mattchew did very similar stuff in MTG. He went AFK for the WHOLE D1 and he didn't give a fuck about being called out. Him being afk itself isn't worrying, it's worrying when it's obvious he doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't even trying to explain himself about his inactivity and lack of effort. I'm torn because his earlier posts did seem townie, but that behaviour of his strikes some doubt (specially if it wasn't for some outside reason, like getting his internet connection cut or something). I'll try to drop the subject before reading this thread and his case on talis; but this is basically exclusive since it's about his earlier behaviour. gonzaw telling our vig to shoot Mattchew over this is one of the reasons I'm suspicious of gonzaw That was marv Gonzaw do you really not see the difference between how mattchew is posting this game and how he posted in mtg? I'm like 75 percent sure mattchew is town right now.
I'm talking about the action itself and how it isn't a "town tell" coming from Mattchew.
I said I'm reading the thread later (I'm not actually seriously accusing him right now, at least not before reading his other posts), I just want a (justified) explanation for that previous behaviour of his (you can't tell me it wasn't odd as fuck, everybody noticed it).
I already talked about his posting before his "derp", although I skimmed his posts afterwards (from this D2) and they aren't that "townie" as his first ones.
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On July 16 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 06:55 Mattchew wrote:On July 16 2012 06:49 gonzaw wrote:On July 16 2012 06:45 Mattchew wrote:
So I couldn't have left 2 hours before the lynch? I wasn't voting Vivax, and my questions werent answered before I had left. Not without explaining why you kept your vote on sciberbia (if you knew you weren't going to be back before the deadline) ro explaining anything at all or if you still thought sciberbia was scum. Or anything at all basically. People not giving you an exact vote count isn't an excuse to waste your vote, leave the thread and come back 24 hours later without giving a shit about the lynch. I had given my opinion on Vivax, because I wasn't confident in it doesn't mean I was ever going to vote to lynch him. So I left my opinions and my vote as they were Vivax wasn't the 100% sure lynch at that point. Dropbear already had votes, and to be honest you could have voted for someone else like austin, Keriathi, etc since they had votes as well. What made you keep your vote on sciberbia and not even consider changing it? What made you not even discuss about it? Or were you in too much of a hurry to explain stuff? If so you could have mentioned you were in a hurry before so we'd avoid this whole mess
I was in a hurry, but I am sick of playing in games and making weekend excuses for not being able post as much as I would like.
Read my case on Talis, tell me where I am wrong or vote with me on him.
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S&B your thoughts on talis? I want him dead
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On July 16 2012 07:03 sciberbia wrote:
@gonzaw
Don't you think Mattchew expected to get some serious flak for disappearing?
If he was scum and did it on purpose yes (if he's town then he obviously didn't think about it).
I just don't get why scum Mattchew would intentionally draw suspicion to himself unless he had a legit reason for vanishing.
I guess you don't know scum Mattchew and what he's capable of. Some scum don't give a shit about slight "WIFOMy" suspicion on themselves if they can get it away easily later or shift attention elsewhere and keep doing what they do. Risen, Mattchew, Palmar, Ace, etc are some players that tend to act like that as scum every once and then
Hence why I think it's just a busytell and not alignment indicative.
I don't know if its a busytell if I don't get a reasonable explanation for it. He WAS active when he made those posts, and there were lots of discussion going on about Vivax, Dropbear, Keirathi, solstice, etc. At that point in time (if he didn't just come, post and immediately leave) there were tons of things he could have done to help town, keeping his vote on sciberbia and not explaining anything isn't part of that.
Unless he was in such a hurry he only had time to post and not read the thread at all (and he still believed sciberbia was scum); then it's not a "busytell" and it's odd as fuck.
Him not explaining himself at all until I JUST asked him to is odd as fuck as well.
(damn, I see this is taking quite a detour in town discussion. Matt please explain EVERYTHING that went through your mind at that time and what you did (i.e what activity you had, if you were actually reading the thread or just posted and left, etc) so we can get this over with)
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On July 16 2012 07:12 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 07:03 sciberbia wrote:
@gonzaw
Don't you think Mattchew expected to get some serious flak for disappearing? If he was scum and did it on purpose yes (if he's town then he obviously didn't think about it). Show nested quote +I just don't get why scum Mattchew would intentionally draw suspicion to himself unless he had a legit reason for vanishing. I guess you don't know scum Mattchew and what he's capable of. Some scum don't give a shit about slight "WIFOMy" suspicion on themselves if they can get it away easily later or shift attention elsewhere and keep doing what they do. Risen, Mattchew, Palmar, Ace, etc are some players that tend to act like that as scum every once and then I don't know if its a busytell if I don't get a reasonable explanation for it. He WAS active when he made those posts, and there were lots of discussion going on about Vivax, Dropbear, Keirathi, solstice, etc. At that point in time (if he didn't just come, post and immediately leave) there were tons of things he could have done to help town, keeping his vote on sciberbia and not explaining anything isn't part of that. Unless he was in such a hurry he only had time to post and not read the thread at all (and he still believed sciberbia was scum); then it's not a "busytell" and it's odd as fuck. Him not explaining himself at all until I JUST asked him to is odd as fuck as well.
(damn, I see this is taking quite a detour in town discussion. Matt please explain EVERYTHING that went through your mind at that time and what you did (i.e what activity you had, if you were actually reading the thread or just posted and left, etc) so we can get this over with)
WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS. STOP TALKING ABOUT MY ABSENCE AND AVOIDING THE ACTUAL MEANINGFUL SCUM HUNTING DISCUSSION IN THE THREAD.
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On July 16 2012 07:12 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 07:03 sciberbia wrote:
@gonzaw
Don't you think Mattchew expected to get some serious flak for disappearing? If he was scum and did it on purpose yes (if he's town then he obviously didn't think about it). Show nested quote +I just don't get why scum Mattchew would intentionally draw suspicion to himself unless he had a legit reason for vanishing. I guess you don't know scum Mattchew and what he's capable of. Some scum don't give a shit about slight "WIFOMy" suspicion on themselves if they can get it away easily later or shift attention elsewhere and keep doing what they do. Risen, Mattchew, Palmar, Ace, etc are some players that tend to act like that as scum every once and then I don't know if its a busytell if I don't get a reasonable explanation for it. He WAS active when he made those posts, and there were lots of discussion going on about Vivax, Dropbear, Keirathi, solstice, etc. At that point in time (if he didn't just come, post and immediately leave) there were tons of things he could have done to help town, keeping his vote on sciberbia and not explaining anything isn't part of that. Unless he was in such a hurry he only had time to post and not read the thread at all (and he still believed sciberbia was scum); then it's not a "busytell" and it's odd as fuck. Him not explaining himself at all until I JUST asked him to is odd as fuck as well.
(damn, I see this is taking quite a detour in town discussion. Matt please explain EVERYTHING that went through your mind at that time and what you did (i.e what activity you had, if you were actually reading the thread or just posted and left, etc) so we can get this over with)
Gonzaw I really think you're barking up the wrong tree with this. What fucking difference does it make whether or not he explains himself? If we think he's town it doesn't matter and if we think he's scum we can't believe him anyway. He disappeared; that's scummy or it's not. But stop obsessing over it.
What do you think about my case on dropbear? What do you think about Matt's case on Talismania?
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Okay I finished my stuff in the other game, I'll start on this one.
What fucking difference does it make whether or not he explains himself? If we think he's town it doesn't matter and if we think he's scum we can't believe him anyway. He disappeared; that's scummy or it's not. But stop obsessing over it.
If he's town he has an alibi and a justification for it, I want it.
Why? Because what he did was very scummy, it was (I've already stated why).
I'm not calling him straight up scum since his earlier posting made me think he was town, but if he tries to avoid this issue I won't know what to think of it, you can't just ignore what Matt did (specially considering he made that "drunk" post later and disappeared again).
Hmm, I'll reread the cases but first I have some questions to solstice and austin:
@solstice: Could you give examples of this?:
On July 15 2012 15:17 s0Lstice wrote:
He was just in a game with risen where he flipped town, and exhibited the exact same behaviors he is finding scummy here. I know that he knows that Risen likes to throw out whole scumteams as town, and rely on connections between scum teammates.
Finding him suspicious for those reasons this game makes me think he is scum.
Do you have proof that S&B would know Risen acts like that as town?
Speaking of which, I guess this means you think Risen is town then? Weren't you suspicious of Risen before?
You even voted him last day and said he "had a high chance of flipping scum" (or something like that).
Does this thing you posted (Risen likes to make connections and whole scumteams, implying he's playing here just like he's playing when he was town) mean you changed your mind about him?
@austin:
I'm getting a town feel off you, but some people pointed this out and I can't help but feel it's weird:
On July 14 2012 05:29 austinmcc wrote:
Torn on Keirathi. He's got some townie-looking posts, but they come only after he was pressured for being too neutral and guarded. Once he posts them, he's mostly checked out. Wishing there was more to work with here. (He posted as I was writing this, need to look back over)
Vivax looks scummy in his hopping around, all the meta nometa crap. But Vivax ALWAYS looks scummy to me. I mislynched him in newbie XVI, I found him scummy in LVI (alignment unknown as of yet), and so I don't really want to vote him D1. To me, he's an easy mislynch to push if I'm scum. He's so wrapped up in this person's meta or that person's meta that the scum team should be telling him to knock it off, right? There were plenty of other options for today's lynch, we had so many scattered votes at the start of the day. So why let him keep hanging himself? Don't like it.
marv and solstice, how are you seeing Vivax right now?
Risen still doesn't look great either. He comes back with a full scum team, an alternate scum in Gonzaw, and finds my finding him townie scummy. No activity --> 5 scum reads, with only a little reasoning backing that up. And now he tunnels Vivax, who again I always seem to find scummy and could see myself trying to mislynch if I were scum.
At the moment, I'm willing to consolidate onto Vivax or Risen if needed, but probably not Keirathi in light of his most recent response(s).
For now, my vote's going on solstice. Something really bugs me about him finding my early game to match my townie play. Yes, the length is always there, but my early posts were a mess. Gonzaw's right about that, marv is right that they look off. I wasn't pressured at all really in my newbie games, barring XIII which was just an odd game to play in. I think my response to a little pressure here was way off, because while I normally post lengthy, it's not so disorganized and jumbled. Concerned that he didn't pick up on that. That little thing keeps nagging at me enough that I'm willing to vote him.
##Vote: Solstice
What exactly went through your mind when you made this post? Did you really think Vivax or Risen were scummy?
You posted reasons why Vivax could be an "easy misslynch scum would push", but you said you'd consolidate on him, and hell you actually did later (you did change your vote on Vivax later):
On July 14 2012 06:47 austinmcc wrote:
I said I'd consolidate on Vivax or Risen, and I will.
##Unvote
##Vote: Vivax
Two things basically:
1)What exactly had Risen and Vivax have to do with your vote choice here? Did you really think solstice was more likely scum? Why did you choose to vote him over those 2?
2)What made you vote Vivax later and not talk about it? You didn't explain anything about it, even though you actually posted some reasons not to vote Vivax. After that you never mentioned Vivax or your vote on him again. Why exactly was that?
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s&b,
In response to your defense....it was MTG and SSB. You've seen it twice. I find it hard to believe that you don't remember seeing that from him. In regards to your original third point on Risen, the exact same is true. He OMGUS' all the time as town, and you've seen it before. That leaves only your second point, which is basically semantics. It's really weak. This case is what manufactured cases look like.
More, you are guilty of the same thing you are accusing Risen of. You OMGUS me in your defense for manufacturing a case against you.
I mean I guess it's possible you really don't remember, but I find myself doubting it. I hope I also answered your two questions in your defense post.
In regards to your stuff on Marv...I understand your reasons for wanting to watch him closely. I agree that he is hard to catch as scum. Why did you announce it to the thread? Why not just do it instead of making this huge bombastic post with set-up speculation and hyperbole? You filled a looooot of space to say 1 thing: Marv is good at scum, hosts like good scum, watch him.
Also:
On July 15 2012 19:55 strongandbig wrote:
Since I didn't think that any scumteam of non-marv people here would be able to successfully push a mislynch onto him, making him look as bad as possible was a win/win for town.
Why, oh why, would taking the risk at demoralizing a town Marv be a win/win? Do the potential benefits of weakening him early as scum outweigh the risk of dragging an extremely solid town player through the mud? I say emphatically, no.
Also I have another question for you: what was the deal with the day 1 Vivax vote? You posted one line on him leading up to deadline:
On July 14 2012 04:50 strongandbig wrote:
im also leaning scum on vivek because of how he kept backing off of someone as soon as they defended themselves a little bit.
Vivax wasn't in your 'people i'd consolidate on' list prior to this post, and all of sudden he is garnering your vote because he is backing off people after they defend themselves? More, there was a counter-movement on Dropbear, Marv was calling for austin to get lynched, and I was in danger myself if someone had taken to pushing me a little harder. These people were all potential candidates that, from your filter, you had more going on than that 1 line from Vivax. You going with Vivax really puzzles me. It just seems like you didn't care since you know all the target's alignments already.
I dunno man, I get a pretty bad feeling from your filter. I see a lot of logic stretches, inaccuracies, and indecisiveness.
Miltonkram,
In response to your suspicions on me: 100% correct. I haven't been anywhere near my town meta. There are a number of pretty valid reasons for this that I'm sure you don't care about. Short version is that I've been traveling all weekend with a sick baby, and when I made time late at night to get in the thread it was everything I could do to stay awake. All I can do is do better, so keep watching. Also I want you to know that I'm not reading you as scum at the moment.
Dropbear
There is nothing I can really say for when I posted. I posted when I had time, and there was usually something to defend against when I did.
On being absent for the lynch, I said I had to hit the road. I was gone maybe 2 hours before the deadline? Something close to that. I knew that I'd miss out on any late switches. By the time I left, there was steam on a Risen lynch, who was one of my two day 1 targets. That's why my vote was there.
I can't help that you think I purposely went afk for the lynch, and in your shoes I might be thinking the same thing. I'll tell you the same thing I told Milton, keep watching me. If I can't fix my shit before I'm mis-lynched then I'll deserve it.
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i'm back to null on Risen right now gonzaw. He is reminding me a lot of his townie play but I really, really didn't like his behavior around lynch time. I believe s&b brought this up already. I wasn't there directly, but reading through it later, I think he was the only happy person in the thread. Like, happy-go-lucky even. Granted, his top scum read was being killed, but it almost went to dropbear. I would think he would want to push harder in the Vivax direction...like right up until the deadline.
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(ehmm, I didn't really read the whole thread by that point and I skimmed solstice other post and I may have missed something though, so if I did I'm sorry I didn't read the whole thread before doing that).
@solstice: I wrote A LOT of shit about S&B, what do you think of it? (specially what I wrote about him last night)
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Basically what I mean is this:
1)I wrote a lot of shit about why I initially thought S&B was scummy: Here, and here.
2)I then wrote a lot of shit about why I think he could have posted those as "frustrated townie", which made me back off attacking him: Here, and here.
What are your thoughts on both issues? You seemed to ignore them in your read of S&B and instead focused on his read on marv/Risen and few stuff.
I also want to know if it affects your read on him or not, and why.
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Here's some examples, gonzaw. They are from SSB64 where Risen was town.
OMGUS
On July 03 2012 06:13 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 06:13 Cephiro wrote:On July 03 2012 05:59 Risen wrote:
Exactly WHAT does standing on the same platform tell us? It tells us NOTHING. 1) It gives us insight on iGrok's thoughts. (He made a very neutral/safe choice, punishing everyone or no-one, not grouping people yet, which he however IS doing in his item picks/sit-outs. He also gave a valid reasoning, it may not necessarily be the optimal choice, but I haven't seen anyone else give a better idea yet.) 2) The reactions of the players on iGrok's choices. (For example, you insist on not going left with everyone, which you haven't given a valid reason for. Or talismania willing to sit-out, even though there is no risk of a fight [Stock loss] if people follow the plan.) So tell me, have a better idea? For now all I am seeing is that you are saying you are not going to follow the plan. (Which you say is because this gives us no information, which is false.) And in your latest posts you were thinking of dividing by the list. (Which doesn't give us any information at all.) I can say it's not much, but it's better than nothing, and we need something to get the scumhunting started. If you're still going to go against the plan without either a) Giving a better idea or b) Giving proper reasoning, then you're certainly not looking good in my eyes. Found the other scum. Two total? Easy game.
On July 04 2012 05:47 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: What am I thinking? I'll lynch tali. Just realized he has me down as being slightly scummy for no reason.
##unvote
##vote: talismania
OMGUS of the best kind.
scum teams/connections
On July 04 2012 07:29 Risen wrote:
I think it's safe to assume that scum was on both sides. Tali/grush scum team imo
On July 05 2012 20:37 Risen wrote:
Food for thought in the thread: bus cephiro and risen. Shoot cephiro. Dedede says: Hey guys look at my breadcrumb!
Meanwhile in mafia chat: omg we got lucky and grush shot cephiro too!
Scum team: dedede and cephiro.
Any flaws in that logic? I like it, because it gives cephiro benefit of the doubt on not being horrible. Only problem is I really liked dedede. His name is so good :/
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gonzaw, your filter + tali's are the two that I'm not totally fresh on. I'll have a look.
I see the case on Talis too, from sciberbia and matt. I've read both, and I think they are pretty good. I misread Talis badly in SSB so I want to look a little more into this. Once I'm through his filter I'll post my thoughts.
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solstice, you're still ignoring the fact that I made three arguments about Risen, and you're still focusing only on the weakest one.
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EPT
