EPTNewbie Mini XV - Page 13
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
sciberbia, it's good that Ange777 stopped lurking (at least for now), but it doesn't look good that it happened right after she came under heavy pressure. It could be a coincidence, but it just seems like too convenient to believe. If you have a better lynch candidate to offer, go ahead, but right now lynching Ange777 feels a lot better than a no-lynch. Although I don't like either how Superouman and Unforgiven_ve have just faded to (fake?) absence without contributing anything significant. I'm fairly certain Mafia are hiding in this lurkish circle of three, but we have to ensure a lynch before the deadline (few hours left anymore!) and Ange777 seems like the only viable option at the moment. She needs 2 more votes, so get voting. Unless you advocate a no-lynch, or have a town read of Ange777 (pretty hard to believe), your best option is to vote for her at the moment. Even if you only have a neutralish read of her, there's no quarantee we won't be having this same discussion again tomorrow if she continues lurking and undermining the discussion in the same way. In the worst case scenario of her being town, Mafia would still rather have a no-lynch than remove such a distraction from the Mafia hunt. So remain "AFK"/hesitant/vague about this if you're Mafia, but if you're town, you should see that a no-lynch would be much worse than lynching the sneaky lurker. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
 Moment... | ||
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Unforgiven_ve
Venezuela1232 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
Therefore please keep in mind: When I flip town - and I will flip town - there will not be any information to get from reviewing day 1 votes due to the way votes accumulated on me. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
On June 02 2012 03:47 s0Lstice wrote: Ange seems capable of doing analysis, but there is no guarantee she will devote more time in the future. Could be busy townie or lurking scum. I hereby proclaim that I will dedicate the weekend to playing Mafia!  | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
cattivik suspicious: golden, heist, eishi_ki unsure: miltonkram, suki defensive: me, xatalos, s0lstice status: I don't think we're lynching him today unforgiven suspicious: s0sltice, golden, suki, cattivik not convinced: me, xatalos, heist, milton defensive: ange status: don't think we're lynching him today either Ange this situation is really up in the air right now, because we only got any real information in the past couple hours. Several people voted for her just because she was lurking, and she is no longer lurking. She has pledged to contribute much more tomorrow. So, I'd like to know where everybody stands on her now. Xatalos and someone else (idr) argued that we have the most votes on her and should therefore lynch her to guarantee a lynch. This is a reasonable stance but I really don't think we should lynch her unless people actually think she is mafia. It's not like we get a whole lot of information from lynching Ange, compared to everyone else. Also, I think we have other candidates (see below). suki suspicious: ange, eishi_ki, unforgiven, me, miltonkram, s0lstice unsure: vivax defensive: Xatalos status: I think we could definitely lynch suki. Many people find him suspicious and only Xatalos has posted any real defense. superouman suspicious: golden, heist, eishi_ki, miltonkram maybe: xatalos, s0sltice, cattivik don't think he's mafia: sciberbia status: Seems like a decent lynch candidate overall. Personally, I don't think he's mafia. I think a lot of you guys are just attacking him for bad townie play. IMO, our best lynch candidates are: suki, ange, superouman If you have not yet given your opinion on these players, now is a good time to do so. Also, if your opinion has changed as a result of Ange's recent activity or suki's recent defense, please say so. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
At the time when Suki made his switch was like 2-3 hours ago meaning he had at least 5-6 hours until deadline to convince people to switch to Unforgiven. If I am absolutely convinced that someone is scum, of course I would push for a lynch on him. I agree that I might settle for a lynch before deadline but there is still quite a lot of time. Enough time for me to write a case on Suki so there should be more than enough time for Suki to write his case on Unforgiven. I am by no means giving Unforgiven a complete townread. There are a few odd things but in my opinion nothing screaming scum like Suki. I agree that Unforgiven's post later was far better but I picked these posts from Unforgiven because they were a direct answer to Suki's suspicion. And Suki, having posted after Unforgiven, should have had read this defense but chose to ignore it. I will try to post some other reads. | ||
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Unforgiven_ve
Venezuela1232 Posts
I see my first post still is a problem for some players, i will try to summarize my response (for the last time) taking this post... he states that you shouldn't use past games as a guide, yet he references two past games in the same post. He states that blue people shouldn't roleclaim, and yet they should roleclaim (as a last resort!). He states that mafia is more active during the last hours of the day, yet he slips in that he'll save his vote for the last hours as well, as if by stating it early he alleviates all suspicions on his actions later on. He's really against bandwagons, yet he asks for a town leader for people to follow. when i say "dont use past game as a guide" i mean personally, dont look for the other games some especific player has played (¿sp?), they can change their way of playing very easily. I just had played 1 game, blue roleclaiming at the end of the game is pretty obvious for me. I said i will save my vote for the last triying to show the town how is my style" of play, like i said, watching all the post, getting information, etc...but i see maybe i was wrong, one should adapt to the way the TOWN plays. When i say town leader i ment someone who are good at making indepth anaysis and posts, who could get people thinking, who can sumarize 10 pages in one post... i think i did not made it very clear, but for a mafia this would be VERY hard to do, thats what i ment when i said "structure" just one or a couple of good players, not someone we will blindly follow...i forgot im in a newbie game ;D. Now to all the new information... __________________________________________________________________________ This extended mayority lynch will fuck us pretty bad, mafia are theonly ones benefiting from this i think... This new case (and votes) against Ange777... i did told you mafia would come at last hours for some activity uh? She's is now on my list, but suki remains number one, specially after this On June 02 2012 01:45 suki wrote: I feel that lynching unforgiven at this point would give us a sure mafia lynch, but from the tone of the thread it doesn't seem like it will pass. I'll put off this discussion until day two. Ange777 already has four votes on him, and by lynching him we rid ourselves of a lurker. To guarantee a Day 1 lynch I will vote for Ange777. ##Unvote Unforgiven_ve ##Vote Ange777 Same random blind vote agains a case someone's else started. s0Lstice: + Show Spoiler + On June 02 2012 02:37 s0Lstice wrote: Xatalos asked me how I felt about Unforgiven in light of his defense. I'm leaving my FoS where it is. When he finally had a little time to scum hunt, he pointed the finger at suki. It was a novel idea at the time, but to me it lacked effort. Look at sciberbia's post compared to his. Now, not all accusations have to have a big word count to be effective, but his effort just looks lazy. Does the reasoning he laid out really warrant a vote? Not to me. He says Suki never pressured anyone, which is ironic because a big part of sciberbia's case is that he bandwagon pressured a lot of people. Whether he was first on the scene or not, he has pressured milton, unforgiven, vivix, and superouman. Saying he hasn't pressured anyone is just false. His case is just 4 short points. The first I just discussed. Past that, his other points are a short filter, safe day 1 play, and some nonsense about taunting cattivik to butter him up for a day 2 vote. It's just not a lot to go on. Keep that in mind. In his defense posts, he says we should discuss everything and nothing at the same time. Don't throw FoS around, or votes. Don't use meta arguments. What is his idea of hunting scum? Those two things are very important tools for applying pressure. He says we need structure, but never says what that is outside from some leader emerging to tell us what to do. His message remains totally unclear. Wait, be smart about scumhunting, and let people talk...but don't use half the tools in your arsenal to get them to talk. He doesn't follow his own rules. He posts a 'meh' case on Suki and then votes right away. If he was following his own rules, I'd think he'd at least wait for a defense before throwing his vote around. Bottom line is I like that he has started to make some effort to hunt scum, and I realize that he has had to spend a lot of time defending himself, but there are still so many inconsistencies in his play that my FoS stays put. I will keep watching. On refresh I see there's a lot of other stuff going on right now so I'd better hurry up and post! Some tother time would say you are not good at reading and throw a light insult ;D but at this point of the game i (think?) know is me not knowing how to make a proper post. Im not good at writing long posts thats why i try to resume and point to the precise stuff i find scummy. For me, suki is still number 1, if Ange777 flips red this will just convice me even more, i bet they are wishing for a NL. I will change my vote before deadline if neccesary, i still have a couple hour to burn. As always, if anyone has any question please ask | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
My views: suki: pretty scummy early on. defense was good. Still, my top choice atm ange: I don't really have a read. I want to review her recent posts again. superouman: Not convinced he's mafia. Just seems like a very disagreeable townie. | ||
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Unforgiven_ve
Venezuela1232 Posts
On June 02 2012 04:15 Xatalos wrote: Ange777, your case against Suki gives me hope that you might become an asset for the Mafia hunt after all. More so than Superouman or Unforgiven_ve. However, you made mistakes / mispresentations. Suki jumping on the lynch push for you (in favor of his better Mafia read) isn't really suspicious in itself, since the other option was to basically vote for no-lynch (Unforgiven_ve had no other votes, so it could have as well been voting for no-lynch). It's actually the most logical thing to do as town (unless you think you can turn the tide of the thread in 3 hours) to ensure a lynch, even if it isn't your best Mafia read. I also dislike how you put so much faith in Unforgiven_ve's initial defense, while to me it just looked like angry deflection and dodging. Unforgiven_ve had one decent post later, but why you would bring up his most Mafia-esque post as his defense, I can't say. I can certainly see why someone would feel suspicious of Unforgiven_ve at this point. Do you think Suki is Mafia if you consider these points? What are your other reads? Please share what you can, as fast as you can. lol @ anger. That just happened in your little head, my dear scum. I forgot to put this in my last post, i also, dont like how Ange sided by me so strongly. That REALLY raised my eyebrown when i read it. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
On June 02 2012 04:06 Ange777 wrote: I hereby proclaim that I will dedicate the weekend to playing Mafia! Don't spend your whole weekend on the computer but yes, more is definitely needed.The analysis on Suki was good. Especially good considering it was rushed. I spent time in his filter when sciberbia posted his case on him, and saw a fair amount of the same things he saw. I added a few more points to it, as I thought (and still do) that there is something there. The point you added is important. Saying you have a sure scum read and not fighting for it when there is ample time is really scummy. I'm not sure why I didn't lock on to this as well; perhaps because I was strongly considering lynching you at the same time he switched his vote to you. To everyone else, consider now what Ange spending more time here would look like. I think in light of her posts we should strongly consider keeping her alive for the time being. I want to instead suggest that we return to Suki. Sciberbia, myself, and now Ange have spent some time on the case against him, and I think it stands up pretty well. I see now that sciberbia has posted about voting for Suki. My answer is yes, I will vote for him. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
On June 02 2012 04:29 Unforgiven_ve wrote: This extended mayority lynch will fuck us pretty bad, mafia are theonly ones benefiting from this i think... This new case (and votes) against Ange777... i did told you mafia would come at last hours for some activity uh? She's is now on my list, but suki remains number one, specially after this Same random blind vote agains a case someone's else stated For me, suki is still number 1, if Ange777 flips red this will just convice me even more, i bet they are wishing for a NL. I will change my vote before deadline if neccesary, i still have a couple hour to burn. As always, if anyone has any question please ask Okay ... seems like I have to step back from a Unforgiven defense ... What are you implying here? That if I flipped red you would be even more convinced that Suki is scum? If you truly think both of us scum there would be no way Suki wants to vote for me. He could easily stick to his vote on you and claim that he is still 100% convinced of you being mafia. High chance for other people to vote for me anyway, so why would he have to vote for me, make himself suspicious of vote switching and bandwaggoning? Furthermore, losing a scum buddy on day 1 would be awful for him. He would indeed prefer a NL instead of my lynch and therefore NOT vote for me! You just made yourself highly suspicious! ##FoS Unforgiven | ||
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Unforgiven_ve
Venezuela1232 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
I guess I could only repeat what was already said. Right now I am leaning to bad town play instead of newbie card as scum. + Show Spoiler + On June 02 2012 04:36 s0Lstice wrote: Don't spend your whole weekend on the computer but yes, more is definitely needed.I already cancelled a girls night out this evening for you guys ♥ Or you could decide to step back from lynching me so that I could go out and stop being scared of having to face an unpleasant surprise when turning on the laptop! | ||
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Unforgiven_ve
Venezuela1232 Posts
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Vivax
21972 Posts
Sciberbia, you summarized that I'm not sure about suki. I just went through sukis' filter, and I would STRONGLY consider him to be town. I see his defense as valid and his efforts as sincere, that said, the people pushing the case against him are either misleaded townies or mafia. And saying he's bandwagoning on Ange777's case is nonsense, he was among the first if not the first. I think we should keep pushing the case against Ange777, right now she's trying to undig cases on all possible people. I understand that there might be pressure cause of the limited time, but backing off from this target now puts the town at great danger of a No-Lynch. And frankly, who the hell would want to lynch the guy who contributed more so far (suki) as opposed to someone who comes last minute when the votes against her are out already. Stop getting soft and let's stick to the lurker lynching policy noone opposed to at the start. It's a real bad time for controversy. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
On June 02 2012 04:44 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Because then he can say "i knew it! see town? im not scum!" pretty standar i guess Ok, so you believe me to be scum? Why would I then out my potential scum buddy Suki and push for his lynch? Indeed I was pressured for a quick case but there is no need for me to pick Suki over the remaining 10 players. | ||
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