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On April 30 2012 13:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not I. :d
Well then, let's get started.
As always, I cynically feel like any plan we hope to enact is doomed to fail so let's just vote how we want to vote for round A. We have a number advantage over scum, so voting randomly (according to how we feel) will put town at the advantage imo.
I haven't decided how to use my votes for Phase B yet. I'm still pondering the matter.
Hi, can you elaborate on this? Surely you don't mean to imply you are going to vote based on something other than information you have gained from reading the thread, and possibly your PMs?
Everyone should be able to justify their round B votes on something other than just vague notions of how useful that player generally is when town aligned.
Also, I propose we will vote which player(s) to lynch as normal. Those player(s) should then not receive any votes in round B; we could have everyone claim their votes in round B to at least have something to analyze in case they still do. Actually I suppose the downside of having everyone claim their votes in public is that mafia will is possible then less likely to vote for each other as they can tell whether their players are in danger of being voted off or not. Ideally we would choose a person who is most likely to be town (that would be me) and just have everyone PM him their votes instead.
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Haven't thought about it much, but it seems to me it would be best if players who we will definitely not be lynching on the given day would be in the minority and everyone would agree to vote with the majority. Random voting seems awful.
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Based on my short discussion with Palmar, I'm supporting that plan. As long as all the "pardons" are adequately justified, there is little reason for anyone else to object either.
That is to say, All hail King Palmar
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Actually, the King is too busy to handle such matters personally, so you should direct the claims to me, his advisor
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Oh I just noticed that votes will be made public after voting is over, but just to make sure
After round B is over, are we told who voted for whom or just given the tallies?
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On April 30 2012 13:11 Cephiro wrote:
Regarding PMs... anyone can PM me and say/ask anything they want, but I promise nothing to no-one as of yet.
Can you clarify what you mean by this? You don't promise to answer questions in private or what kind of promises are you exactly talking about here?
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I can't say I'm even slightly surprised to see you on the wrong side of a decent plan.
This is off-topic, but perhaps you should stop joining games that have non-standard setups if you have no interest in actually figuring out the setup and utilizing it in the way that best benefits the town. That's the whole point.
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I'm hostile because you have no reason whatsoever to have "extreme disdain" at what occurred in spaceship mafia.
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On April 30 2012 23:26 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 23:13 syllogism wrote:
I can't say I'm even slightly surprised to see you on the wrong side of a decent plan.
This is off-topic, but perhaps you should stop joining games that have non-standard setups if you have no interest in actually figuring out the setup and utilizing it in the way that best benefits the town. That's the whole point. How is it a decent plan again??? The plan is literally "let palmar control round one"
Because he seems townie enough and the alternative is basically random chance or worse. We aren't going to be able to democratically determine who should be in the minority and who shouldn't in 24 hours, especially on day 1.
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And how exactly are we all going to decide in the time we have left who should be in the minority? We vote? How many votes? How long do you think this process would take and would everyone be around to send in their answers once the process is finally over?
And yes, you should take my word on that. My read can be wrong, but even if it is, it wouldn't be a disaster. As Palmar said, he would be accountable.
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If palmar was part of a team, by the time we figure it out, it would be too late. Even more so since apparently he's asking people to claim to him.
This is such a ridiculous assertion that I think I know who I will be voting to lynch today. Too late for what? Why do you assume it would take long? And if he is mafia and had given his team mates immunity on previous rounds, wouldn't we just catch them all at once? Don't you think the other team would shoot him anyway? Why is he, as mafia, putting himself in such a spotlight especially given that there is another team that can, presumably, just kill him?
It seems to me your mindset is not that of a townie
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On May 01 2012 00:40 Motbob is great wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 23:57 chaoser wrote:
Ok, how do we hold him responsible? How do we know that his picks for exemption are pro-town and not pro-mafia? How long will it take us to figure out his picks are pro-mafia? Probably a very long time if he's mafia and his teammates just play very "townie like"; There are two mafia teams so it's very easy to scumhunt while being scum yourself. Putting someone into power to always decide Round 1 is ridiculous because of that. We don't know anything about mafia, what roles they might have, or how much KP they have. If palmar was part of a team, by the time we figure it out, it would be too late. Even more so since apparently he's asking people to claim to him. This above part is very true and I'm bolding/quoting because I think it bears repeating. Also syllo chill a bit...
Chill? Do you have a problem with me thinking chaoser is scum for saying something that demonstrates he isn't approaching the issue from a townie point of view?
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How is it a good point for him to say his team mates can play "very townie like"? How are we even supposed to find at all if that is true? Besides if they are playing "very townie like", wouldn't people just be voting to save them anyway in round B? Again, this is nonsense. Moreover, we are just talking about day 1 plans for now, making the opposition even more absurd.
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VE I'm not sure if I believe you as the post isn't internally very consistent if that was your meaning. If that was your intent, what conclusion did you reach now that you have "pondered" the issue?
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Since jubjubs aren't complying with the best plan for day 1, we need to reach consensus on round A voting within a few hours. I think this game would be better with 72 hour days, there is so little time to come up with plans or even contact everyone within 24 hours.
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On May 01 2012 03:37 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 23:30 syllogism wrote:On April 30 2012 23:26 chaoser wrote:On April 30 2012 23:13 syllogism wrote:
I can't say I'm even slightly surprised to see you on the wrong side of a decent plan.
This is off-topic, but perhaps you should stop joining games that have non-standard setups if you have no interest in actually figuring out the setup and utilizing it in the way that best benefits the town. That's the whole point. How is it a decent plan again??? The plan is literally "let palmar control round one" Because he seems townie enough and the alternative is basically random chance or worse. We aren't going to be able to democratically determine who should be in the minority and who shouldn't in 24 hours, especially on day 1. ![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/biggums.png)
Hello ace are you going to do anything useful at all this game?
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This is why we need a plan for round A; to make sure players we are suspicious of vote with the majority. As I noted earlier, chaoser is who I would be voting to lynch right now and he should definitely not get immunity today.
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Chaoser do you think Palmar is mafia or not?
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On May 01 2012 03:56 chaoser wrote:
If i had to lynch someone today, it'd be palmar
Ah yes, the good old "lets attract as much attention as possible and establish an obvious link between each other" strategy in a two scum team game. Do you genuinely believe this?
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Right, so I'm willing to entertain the idea that is why you were skeptical of the plan, though I still think the way you argued against it suggests a non-town mindset, but you still haven't explained why you think Palmar is mafia. Even if you think that is a possible mafia strategy, do you think it is a likely one? It makes perfect sense from a town point of view and is exactly what you would expect from town palmar. Further, certainly you've actually read his posts to see if his actual content agrees with your theory? Yet, I notice a distinct lack of you pointing towards anything specific
That post is a pretty bizarre way to push the idea that someone is mafia, it seems quite defensive even
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I presume we would then, having identified 3 mafia, not follow the plan on the following day and then lynch them one by one. We should, however, move on to more important matters as it is clear people aren't willing to follow the strategy today at least.
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Sometimes all it takes is one post to get a solid town read on someone, you should read some guides Ace
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On May 01 2012 06:10 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:57 syllogism wrote:
Sometimes all it takes is one post to get a solid town read on someone, you should read some guides Ace can't tell if being sarcastic or...
That's the kind of reply his "oh how can someone possibly have a town read mere 12 pages into the game!" (he says that every game too) comment deserves.
Anyway, sandroba seems too disinterested both in-thread and over PMs to be town. Sandroba are you going to post your sheth suspicions in the thread as well or not going to bother?
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On May 01 2012 06:15 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 20:55 syllogism wrote:On April 30 2012 13:11 Cephiro wrote:
Regarding PMs... anyone can PM me and say/ask anything they want, but I promise nothing to no-one as of yet. Can you clarify what you mean by this? You don't promise to answer questions in private or what kind of promises are you exactly talking about here? I mean exactly what I said. I promise nothing to no-one as of that moment. Try and gain my trust if you want such to happen. I've caught up on the thread. I will not be agreeing with this whole "Palmar for King"-thingy. I am already suspicious of a few people.
Well that is a completely pointless statement then but okay
Who are you suspicious of and why? Why did you find it important to point out you have suspicions and then didn't bother to name any?
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I'm happy to tell you that I indeed have quite a few claims. I think some are mafia though
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On May 01 2012 13:29 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
As of now I'm going to give 1 to Cephiro, 1 to Viscera eyes, 1 to Radfield and 2 I haven't decided yet. Wiggles is looking good with Meapak probably. Anyway just going to be open about where I'm voting and who I feel I want to stick around.
Don't give Cephiro anything until he posts his suspicions in public and explains why that information couldn't be made public before. It's quite difficult to believe town cephiro genuinely believes that sharing his scum reads in public is detrimental and his excuses are just making him look worse.
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No, all you have provided so far is a completely nonsensical explanation and if everyone followed your logic, the game would be impossible to analyze. No one cares if you don't have sufficient evidence yet, just knowing your suspicions and having some sort of basic justification for them is sufficient. Talking to you appears to be a waste of time, however.
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Oh I see you basically posted your suspicions inside that spoiler, that's much better, though I'm almost afraid to ask justifications for some of them
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Chaoser do you still think palmar and me are scum together?
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Katina you seemed worried about King Palmar plan distracting from actual mafia hunting, but you personally have voiced no suspicions at all. Further, do you really think the rather heated discussion that followed produced no useful information at all, especially in terms of connections, or more accurately disconnections? While you unfortunately aren't up for lynch today, I'm very interested in hearing from you too
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There are so many egos and players who are incapable of cooperating with anyone even when they are town, so it's going to be pretty much impossible to lynch multiple players today except by sheer luck.
Sandroba didn't even bother defending himself today when I PMed and told him that I believe he is mafia and everything about his play suggests this is the apathetic mafia Sandroba. He seemed quite interested in the game before it started as we discussed the setup quite extensively. I suppose it is possible that he really has just been busy due to brazilian holidays, but it's not just his activity I've a problem with, but also his tone. Even when he has been here, he hasn't been interested in talking with me, which is pretty much the opposite of what he does as town. And I'm sure he knows by now that I'm town.
So since we can likely only kill one today, he should definitely be it as things stand.
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I'm going to be voting in about 30 minutes and then I'll be off. I will likely be spreading my votes between radfield, wiggles and someone else.
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I got to go, but while I'm gone I would like to see sheth explain why he thinks that Gonzaw has been playing his "scum meta" and has been "useless". He also seemed quite worried about dying due to not getting enough votes, which frankly sounded quite artificial. This is all from a PM conversation with him. Not the first PM discussion either in which it felt like he was just making stuff up. We should still prioritize sandroba lynch, but I'm quite suspicious of sheth right now.
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Yes, in a game where cooperation is essential we are stuck with some players who are completely incapable of doing that. I'm sure they aren't all mafia and even if they are, I think they would be playing in a quite similar fashion anyway.
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Sheth never bothered to explain to me why he claims gonzaw is playing according to his "scum meta" or has been "useless". Meanwhile he gave 4 votes to cephiro for "defending himself", "meta read" and because he has played games on irc with him. I don't think sheth has even played games with either of them before.
BC you aren't even playing the game, how unexpected
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On May 02 2012 13:12 Foolishness wrote:
More than one person has some explaining to do.
Really, who? Why bother saying that and not naming any names
On May 02 2012 14:08 Foolishness wrote:Wrong, right. I'm pretty sure 2 mafia revealed themselves in the votes though.
Do you really think sandroba's team mates would have voted for him when he is completely afk and might just get flipped during the night?
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If sandroba is mafia and you are his team mate, you don't even know how many votes it takes to save him, so you just risk linking yourself with him for no reason at all. It's completely ridiculous to clear him based on that.
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BC when did you send in your 4 sheth votes and why?
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No the plan is only bad if the person in charge is mafia and he isn't. If you can't tell that he is town by now, that is your own failure but does not make the plan bad. If you analyzing the game and not finding townies, you are playing very, very wrong.
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I'm not going to bother addressing the rest of your post, but I don't have to be 100% sure, something like 95% will do just fine and is sufficient to justify any plan that requires him to be town most of the time.
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Hey katina I see you are lurking, got anything worthwhile to contribute? Are you still interested in lynching the most obvious townie in the game? Been PMing anyone?
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I've to say that I'm pretty surprised that none of the smart people who were around when VE claimed to have given all his votes to sandroba did nothing to save him. It is very unlikely for mafia to do that, even lying about it was rather pointless, given the circumstances. Cephiro had announced relatively early that he was giving some votes to VE, while no one had claimed to have given any to sandroba.
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Sheth finally provided an acceptable answer to my inquiries so he looks slightly better for now
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That nk makes no sense at all and why is there only one? Basically the most useless player in the game was shot, I suppose it's someone BC might kill
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Do we know if mafia KP is 1?
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I'm pretty much certain that palmar is town. If he isn't, props to him I suppose but I would put him at 95+% town.
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Why do you think BC is town? And if you think wbg is mafia, does that mean you want to lynch him today? Why is he mafia?
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Why would you ever, allegedly, send in your answer this early if you are town? What's the rush? Afraid that town will come up with a plan and going against it will make you look bad?
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Even if you RNG, you need to PM me what you send in. Players who are willing to cooperate should not rng yet.
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On May 03 2012 22:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 16:51 syllogism wrote:
Why would you ever, allegedly, send in your answer this early if you are town? What's the rush? Afraid that town will come up with a plan and going against it will make you look bad? If someone doesnt trust you or palmar and your plan was the only one on the docket why would someone wait for it? If you have near no time to play for that given phase why would you wait and risk mod punishment etc...
Why are you answering for him? Do you think meapak is town then? Oh wait you said you don't look for townies so either he is a big mystery to you or you think he is scummy, hence you should have no motivation for defending him. Even putting that aside, your explanation makes very little sense.
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On May 04 2012 01:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 19:41 syllogism wrote:
Even if you RNG, you need to PM me what you send in. Players who are willing to cooperate should not rng yet. Absolutely nobody do this.
Hi Meapak, why is that? Who do you want to lynch today?
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Very cute Meapak, let me guess, you are "trapping here". I know you are smarter than to actually believe I'm mafia, so that leaves just one alternative
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
My team was actually all online so we were able to arrange it ^^
Let's cut to the chase here, I think we can help each other.
We'll be willing to exchange answers if you guys are.
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We can have no plan for round A because there are too many mafia in the game who have decided to just claim mafia and not cooperate. Yes they do not understand the setup.
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Though to be fair I guess town is supposed to pretend that they are stupid every cycle until round A is over and only then reveal who the lynch target is, but that seems too annoying
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Sheth is mafia, I can guarantee this. Anyway, we are killing BC and/or Cephiro today. Do not vote yet if you are town, as WBG says.
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On May 04 2012 16:54 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:35 syllogism wrote:
Sheth is mafia, I can guarantee this. Anyway, we are killing BC and/or Cephiro today. Do not vote yet if you are town, as WBG says. thank you lord. i thought earlier you were saying "oh sheth explained stuff he's fine :3"
I said he looked slightly better and since then I've had further discussions with him and he basically claimed mafia. I also re-evaluated old information and realized Sheth isn't stupid and this is exactly how he tends to play as mafia.
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Sandroba has plenty of time, but he is rather playing witcher 2. He, too, has claimed mafia to me and anyone who knows me and sandroba should just take my word on it.
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Sandroba since you are still claiming to be town, wouldn't it be a good idea to demonstrate that by claiming your votes early and in public. Or actually just let me decide for you as earlier you suggested that the only reason you aren't letting me decide is because I'm trying to kill you, but you are safe for now.
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Even if you somehow were town, it would be you whose play has been pathetic. You have pretty much no mafia reads and the explanations for your other reads (such as why you think BC is town) are laughable. Further, you have pushed blatant mafia agenda, for instance by suggesting someone is leaking information, but then refusing to elaborate. We know for a fact nothing is being leaked. Actually, even if you are mafia, your play has been very poor.
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Also I like how you assume Palmar is town in that post, when you have been trying to undermine him whole game long
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By the way, he sent me this PM last night
Original Message From Cephiro:
BC has played very openly and been honest about his opinions. Although his town play is not perfect, I could say the same about several others in this game. Add that on top of the PMs and reactions from certain people opposing him, I have absolutely no reason to believe he is scum.
At the moment I am fairly sure you are town, but I am not completely sure of a few things:
1) Why the buddying with Palmar
2) Your most posts seem very towny to me, but yet you keep pushing this very anti-town plan, there is no way for people suddenly trust you or Palmar any more than anyone else, and you nor Palmar have much town-cred to back it up imo.
Also, interesting fact: There are a lot of players being called out for not scumhunting or making cases (especially in thread). Fact is, I don't see either of you two doing it either.
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Sheth and Sandroba are in the minority. Who are you going to vote to keep alive?
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We have basis for calling him town, we just haven't explained it in public and aren't particularly interested in convincing mafia. The only "people" who seriously "suspect" us are mafia.
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Sheth you forgot to comment on cephiro, the guy who you allegedly gave 5 votes. Any thoughts on his defence of BC?
BC has played very openly and been honest about his opinions. Although his town play is not perfect, I could say the same about several others in this game. Add that on top of the PMs and reactions from certain people opposing him, I have absolutely no reason to believe he is scum.
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No, you don't even have to filter him. How likely do you think it is that a townie uses phrases such as "although his town play is not perfect"? Cephiro doesn't know he is town, he just has a town read on him, so the phrase is very peculiar. Also he references vague "reactions from certain people opposing him" as evidence of him being town, which is quite bizarre as I've no idea what reactions or people he could possible even be referring to.
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Oh you are just a mafia trolling at this point, yawn
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In that case you should just ask palmar for guidance and sheep him, because you've a strong town read on him and presumably you think he is a good player and his reads are basically completely opposite to yours. But I have actually seen your town play and this is not it.
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I'm re-evaluating sheth because he is somehow managing to convince me that him saying things he can't possibly believe in isn't indicative of him being mafia.
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I have never said that I suspected VE or Ace and quite clearly wanted to lynch Sandroba on day 1
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WBG are you going to answer my PMs? This is getting pretty annoying
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This game is incredibly stressful as I have to argue/coordinate with every single player in the game and now sandroba is back and acting all insulted for no reason. Yes how could we possibly think he is mafia
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Sloosh: Palmar was supposed to vote prplhz and forgot I guess
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Foolishness I would be very interested to hear who you would like to lynch tomorrow.
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The funny thing is that I told sandroba to spread his votes like that
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If I happen to die tonight, listen to Palmar first, WBG second and no one after that unless they tell you to. Thanks.
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I was actually getting suspicious of foolishness due to how stubborn he was being and based on some of the explanations he had for his reads in our PM conversations. Anyway, I'm going to keep pushing to lynch obvious mafia before I start getting paranoid. Once again, I don't think we can have a plan for round A other than RNGing the answers.
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We have been giving mafia way too much information about our suspicions, but I just can't force myself to play any other way as it's not fun. Consequently the game is going to be very dull while we attempt to actually get them lynched. Also:
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth:
Phew, glad you lived. o o
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: Sure : Bloody : Just so you know I'm not just blindly giving my votes to Cephiro. I'm just fishing for responses. You're one of my candidates for recieving votes! : ] Meapak : Also, just so you know I'm not blindly giving all my votes to Cephiro. I simply want to see responses. I'm sure digging a whole with my talking to bc. But thats what I sent  Show nested quote +Original Message From syllogism: Can I see the logs with BC? Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: I actually told Meapak_ziphh and BC. Meapak brought it up in thread, I geuss he told WBG. Also yea kind of ironic that I told BC that if him and ceph are mafia together. Original Message From syllogism:
Can I get a list of people who you told about your cephiro gambit
"I told several people before I did this so it should be unarguable"
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What is the lacking context? What do you think I'm saying? Feel free to explain the context if you think the PMs do not speak for themselves. I'm sure posting the actual BC logs would provide additional context. For some reason it took you quite a while to respond to the request, despite the fact I replied to your PM immediately after receiving it.
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Yes, I know meapak verified the story and I have seen your logs with him. You have provided no logs of your conversations with BC, unless he never replied and you randomly decided to PM him without talking to him at all about anything. It seems to me you should have PMed your #1 town read, Palmar instead if you wanted to keep that information secret so you could see how people react.
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On May 07 2012 13:12 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 13:01 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 07 2012 12:55 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Why would I forge a PM to BC if I could have simply said I didn't PM him?
Just give me an answer to that please. because you said you PMed more than one person about the bluff, and Meapak was only one person. derp. Could have said Ace or Foolishness. derp back at ya.
Ace died n1 and you replied to me before day 3 post and even if you hadn't you couldn't know what he had told everyone else.
Not that we need to catch you at a lie to get you lynched as everything about your play screams mafia. If someone actually needs an explanation, we can provide one as otherwise I don't see the need.
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Also if cephiro/sheth is what remains of your team and it looks like sheth is going to get lynched by the end of the day, you shouldn't bother trying to save him as in that case the game is unwinnable for your team and you are at best just delaying the inevitable.
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Don't use the "do you really think we are stupid enough" defense unless you want me to answer that and present evidence as to why that may be the case.
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I guess it's somewhat less likely for ceph to make that argument if they are team mates, just so he doesn't look silly after the game is over. Sandroba being on their team makes some sense, though I don't quite understand why mafia sheth would suicide like that if he isn't on the same team as ceph/bc.
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Fine, who is mafia then? Your only real read whole game long has been gonzaw and you've defended at least one mafia, likely two. You said that, if you die and flip town, we should look at your reads knowing that they are legitimate. The problem is you don't have any useful reads, haven't made any cases at all and we already know you have been wrong about several things.
If you are town, spend the day making real cases. You could start by explaining why, after "thinking about it all day", you think Cephiro is town. I'm more interested in your mafia reads, however.
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Now that you are not in danger of being lynched today, I'm sure you will spend the day scum hunting and making cases.
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I will look at them with the same objectivity that I had when I assessed your BC read here
BC has played very openly and been honest about his opinions. Although his town play is not perfect, I could say the same about several others in this game.
I do agree that his town play was not perfect and that the same can be said about your play so far.
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Who do you think should be killed today, Chaoser? Everything we said about you on day 1 still applies, including what Foolishness said and he has flipped town. Have you been PMing anyone at all? Got logs with meapak and sandroba?
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You don't seriously buy a claim from trolling mafia? How does it make sense at all for him to play survivor like that? Seems to me you are only believing it because it fits your agenda
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Of course, you are the one who is building our strategy around a likely fake claim/joke
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Palmar implied that cephiro claimed that he is a survivor with kp, which he sort of did with his jackpot comment. Anyway, you are still building our strategy around an unlikely scenario. We've our own theories as to why there has been only one KP every night and they seem more likely than there being a survivor who can basically claim on day 1 and then just tell town to direct his KP
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Citation please and how would you know that as a "survivor" who has KP
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I don't even know what you are trying to say there and how that is suddenly relevant. One of the reasons we suspected BC/Ceph was because there aren't many people in this game who would, as mafia, shoot ace n1. He may have been shot because bc/ceph consider him a good town player, because they thought he may be mafia or because they thought doing so would make us look more suspicious. Doesn't particularly matter. Why do you think foolishness was shot? He agreed with us on almost everything.
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I'm not going to go into detail because I'm lazy and can make it happen anyway, barring mafia interference. Basically his only case so far in the game has been a very weak case on prplhz and he has made several quite suspicious claims in and out of the threat. His activity has also drastically dropped when it became apparent palmar/me/wbg and foolishness got control of the game. You defending him for no reason only serves to increase our suspicions as chaoser/meapak team makes quite a bit of sense.
Here are some choice quotes from his PM conversations with foolishness:
"I have to be honest with you, the only people I'm really certain about are prplhz/sandroba. I really don't have anyone who I'm sure is town, it's all shades of gray"
"I'm fairly certain Palmar is third party." <-- so he can't find any townies but he is "fairly certain" that palmar is a third party?
"And on the contrary, I think me flipping a coin is highlighting the idiocy of trying to arrange plans for round A." (<-- this was a defensive reply to foolishness disapproving him coin flipping)
Meapak is a good player, but has demonstrated none of that in this game.
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He also said this:
Here's the scum:
sandroba, prplhz, radfield/sloosh, syllogism, wiggles, ____
When foolishness suggested sheth/chaoser, he didn't comment
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Feel free to make a case on someone who can be lynched today, other than sheth of course.
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Oh so you think one mafia team went 0-3 or 0-2 last night? Weren't you saying foolishness style voting analysis would be useful
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Sheth so you are saying you look like mafia and me trying to kill you makes me mafia, because i'm mafia trying to kill mafia? Brilliant
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Thanks for making this game more fun sheth
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I'm relatively confident that sheth/chaoser/meapak are all mafia, but given that it is unlikely that we can lynch more than one today, it should be sheth. Chaoser/meapak can vote each other all I care and I tell sandroba to give a few votes to his teammates. Everyone else has to be at 9 votes so mafia can't do some sort of all-in
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On May 08 2012 02:40 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 02:08 syllogism wrote:
Oh so you think one mafia team went 0-3 or 0-2 last night? Weren't you saying foolishness style voting analysis would be useful Aren't you also saying theres one mafia team with 0-2 last night? your five is sheth/sandro/ceph/me/MZ with Me/MZ being on a team and sandro/sheth being on a team. No matter how you cut that, there's a 0-# team in there.
No, I think chaoser/meapak/sandroba is one team and bc/sheth/ceph is another. Not that this is relevant, because I'm not the one who is trying to use analyze vote splits at this point and definitely not trying to use that as a reason not to lynch people who I think are mafia.
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If chaoser/meapak/sandroba are mafia, they obviously won't let two of their team mates die today. Chaoser has already established that he thinks meapak is town, so he will probably give all his votes to meapak and meapak may or may not do the same for him. I suppose I can tell sandroba not to vote for those two, but if he does, we can't really conclude that they are all mafia and on the same team just from the fact sandroba voted for them.
The problem is that if one of them is town, it's possible that the person in question will get lynched instead of sheth.
Anyway, just follow prplhz plan, but I expect only one of them to actually get lynched unless they decide to forfeit.
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This seems too easy though, but we do have basically 3 claimed mafia to lynch if chaoser and/or meapak end up being town
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I'm not actually trying to find the whole team at once and I would be much happier if I could lynch you/sandroba/ceph first and then decide how to proceed. You have already claimed mafia, so if you somehow end up flipping town I would be requesting a ban due to not playing for your win con. So please stop trolling/insulting
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You are arguing with someone who also said this
ironically those who aren't really caring about finding mafia are probably the towniest or just the laziest
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Feel free to argue about your other reads while I'm gone, but listen to whatever Palmar/WBG say. Prplhz plan is fine but if wbg wants to tweak it to guarantee that only sheth dies, that's fine by me. Any plan that involves killing someone other than one of sheth/chaoser/meapak or that leaves someone we want to save with fewer than 8 votes is not acceptable. Make sure you vote correctly.
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On May 08 2012 04:18 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:01 syllogism wrote:
I'm not actually trying to find the whole team at once and I would be much happier if I could lynch you/sandroba/ceph first and then decide how to proceed. You have already claimed mafia, so if you somehow end up flipping town I would be requesting a ban due to not playing for your win con. So please stop trolling/insulting I have never claimed mafia. I geuss the point of this game is lying, but come on syllo. Hopefully the rest of you can see threw syllo's idiocracy.
No townie would ever say something like this
ironically those who aren't really caring about finding mafia are probably the towniest or just the laziest
You are not amusing anymore, you are just trolling. Go away.
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Feel free to consult the rules of the game. Trolling and intentionally making people believe you are mafia by saying things that are manifestly wrong is according to any reasonable interpretation of the rule playing against your win con and worth a modkill/ban. It is basically the worst thing you can do in mafia aside form blatant cheating.
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If you have to vote and leave before wbg gets here, vote according to the plan and PM wbg that you did
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How can you honestly believe in everything you said here, it seems completely impossible
I've figured out why I'm being targeted like this btw.
If you are mafia you actually want to kill other mafia. So that makes sense that syllo's mafia play would still be this hunting really badly for the other house. Anyway I'm town, and I think my flip will actually help town more then anything else I can do because you guys seem to just assume I'm mafia regardless of what I say. Look at Gonzaw the kid has a good chance of being mafia.
I'm saying I decided you weren't mafia because you were scum hunting in a good fashion going after people not necessarily me in general. But I realize now as Mafia you'd be wanting to do the same thing. It actually kind of messes up my reads on everyone and ironically those who aren't really caring about finding mafia are probably the towniest or just the laziest, because mafia should really be trying to clean out the other house quite a lot.
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Another Bill Murray situation, hard to believe it
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I'm not talking about you
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On May 04 2012 04:25 gonzaw wrote:
chaoser is another one. The thing that made me less confident about pushing him is that a lot of people were starting to think he was town all of a sudden, and I thought something was going on in PM-land that made them think that.
Yet I didn't receive any info from anyone about this, and chaoser himself isn't responding to my PMs either, so I don't know wtf happened.
So I'm re-evaluating things in the light of what happened last night and noticed this. Who were the people who were starting to think he was town and did you PM them to ask why? Your playstyle is very aggressive, so I'm finding this explanation very dubious. Who have you been in PM contact with and can I see your logs?
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Also Wiggles any thoughts on chaoser/meapak or anyone at all? You started out fine, but you have faded a bit since then and I don't really have a clue about your suspicions
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Some flawless logic there, you are clearly town chaoser
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You are right about meapak though, I will reconsider him when I have time. He has to actually resume playing though. Care you explain your ET/Palmar reads?
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I've no problem being wrong and it wouldn't be just me being wrong. Who have you been right about again?
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On day 1 you wanted ot lynch Palmar, on day 2 you wanted to lynch ET and yesterday Sheth, so I'm a bit confused as to why you even bother making that assertion.
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Here's your mafia list:
sandro/ceph/sheth/ET/Palmar
I see a distinct lack of sloosh/prplhz. So are you saying that you think they are mafia after all? Are you going to produce that case on ET tonight? Tomorrow? Ever? I asked sheth/meapak/you to make a case on someone and none of you have.
Meanwhile I wanted to lynch sandroba on day 1 (likely mafia, you agree), bc/ceph on day 2 (mafia, likely mafia) and the jury is still out on you and meapak. Yes what an awful track record.
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Did meapak think you are town Chaoser? I find it weird he rather threw his votes away than saved you if that is the case. Did he know you were getting votes from someone else? His filter seems quite devoid of any mentions of you, though he indirectly defended you early on. Did you know sandroba defended you on day 1 in his PMs with me?
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I'm not so sure about that; it was likely that only one person gets lynched on day 1 and even if they all ended up on the same side that was likely going to be sandroba. If sandroba isn't there, a lot of people were suspicious of chaoser so they might have ended up losing one then anyway. Regardless, it's a bit strange that sandroba has been letting us control his votes like this if he is mafia with those two unless they knew they would be saved anyway.
Still, it's way too premature to speculate about that before we even get one flip.
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I'm reading his day 2 filter and he is pretty much absent and doens't even comment on the bc/cephiro issue. How does it even make sense for him to then go "wow...i was wrong about BC/ceph v syllo/palmar" after BC flips mafia?
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It has come to my attention that meapak has put more effort into the game than I thought, so perhaps he just has an off game and I'm misinterpreting things in the light of that.
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On May 09 2012 01:19 chaoser wrote:
Also, I thought Me and MZ were a team. But now I'm with Ceph? What a fast-changing world. Are sloosh and prp still "confirmed town" in your books? Cause I'm pretty sure there's no such thing.
I have never called sloosh confirmed town and even if I was, why are you pushing the notion that I shouldn't consider them town when you aren't suspecting them of being mafia?
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On May 09 2012 01:30 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 01:25 syllogism wrote:On May 09 2012 01:19 chaoser wrote:
Also, I thought Me and MZ were a team. But now I'm with Ceph? What a fast-changing world. Are sloosh and prp still "confirmed town" in your books? Cause I'm pretty sure there's no such thing. I have never called sloosh confirmed town and even if I was, why are you pushing the notion that I shouldn't consider them town when you aren't suspecting them of being mafia? Word? Cause I heard in PM land from sheth that you said prp and sloosh were confirmed townie.
When did you talk with Sheth?
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Anyway, this is a waste of time as you have made it abundantly clear that you are only arguing with us because we want to lynch you. You had no issues on day 2 and for the most part yesterday when we were even lynching someone who you, too, wanted to lynch. Instead of making the case you keep promising, you keep bringing up completely nonsensical and irrelevant points. Your agenda has not for the duration of the game been finding scum and now your singular agenda is a poor attempt at discrediting us, because you know we will lynch you and you will not flip town. You keep dodging my questions as to why, for instance, us considering players A or B town matters at all when you agree with the read.
I suppose your poorly thought of angle there is that you wish the pool of players town considers suspicious was larger and at the same time try to push the idea that we are stiffling discussion, which is blatantly false. Unfortunately such an angle makes very little sense in the light of you personally not finding them suspicious either, unless you are mafia.
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No one was, at any point of the game when me and WBG were alive, following Palmar. One of the reasons we thought he was town was because he put himself into a position where he could only vote and do what me and wbg were telling him to do. His day 1 plan was a typical palmar plan and not a plan that "should have raised red flags". I also disagree that it was bad, because, again, it wouldn't have been him deciding how to vote, but several players together and he couldn't really manipulate that at all. He didn't even participate in organizing the votes, me and WBG did that and we didn't even ask him to. With only 24 hours to organize round A every day, we basically either had to RNG votes or have a few players decide how to vote. Later on when there were fewer players left things obviously changed a bit.
Feel free to ask Palmar if the above is correct. I had pretty dumb reasons for thinking Palmar is town, but I don't think he actually had a plan to win and I let a dumb meta reason to mislead me. We didn't reassess as much as we should have because we were incredibly frustrated by the fact the setup wasn't letting us kill the players we wanted and actually see the flips. Cephiro should have let himself die much earlier, but he was clearly not playing to win after BC's flip.
Otherwise good analysis as always, but you are making some assumptions that you shouldn't in a PM game.
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Also gonzaw not shooting when you should have just because town might win is really bad and I hope your team disapproves. In a game with two mafia factions you aren't playing against the town and it doesn't matter whether the other team or town wins if you lose.
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But if you hit harimoto and they don't hit you, you win right there. I don't think it is a reasonable assumption that the other team wouldn't shoot when there were only 4 players alive (I assume that was the case, I wasn't following closely), but if that's what you assumed that's fine then.
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EPT
