EPTgonzaw you can PM me about this whole thing if you want to!
Liar Game Mini Mafia - Page 56
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
gonzaw you can PM me about this whole thing if you want to! | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
On May 08 2012 03:47 syllogism wrote: This seems too easy though, but we do have basically 3 claimed mafia to lynch if chaoser and/or meapak end up being town Thats because your not as good at this as you think you are. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5202 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:09 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I've figured out why I'm being targeted like this btw. If you are mafia you actually want to kill other mafia. So that makes sense that syllo's mafia play would still be this hunting really badly for the other house. Anyway I'm town, and I think my flip will actually help town more then anything else I can do because you guys seem to just assume I'm mafia regardless of what I say. Look at Gonzaw the kid has a good chance of being mafia. ? I thought syllo was your towniest town read, 2nd only to Palmar? Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: Phew, glad you lived. o o posting my case on Sheth in a sec | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
ironically those who aren't really caring about finding mafia are probably the towniest or just the laziest | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5202 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Sandroba is because of his early sprinking votes suggestion, which allows easier manipulation by scum, and also makes it much harder to identify the true source of mislynches. Couple that with his lurking / general aloofness (I guess people bring up his meta comes into play here), and posts like http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=45#892 don't look so good. Sheth is because claiming 5 votes on Cephiro doesn't make any sense. Prior to this I saw him suspicious based because he is so eager to comply and sheep, and there seems to be no shred of caution / discernment. Cephiro because he is calling everyone stupid and being a jerk-face. Reluctance to share reads as well as straight up trolling I cannot see as town. That scumslip that Syllo caught is also a heavy tell as he bashes Palmer for a good 2~3 pages of his filter and would still consider him town. --- Additional read would be Meapak based on BC's vote and general silence in the thread. On May 08 2012 01:11 chaoser wrote: No? We don't kill multiple people cause they HAVE a chance of flipping townie. At the same time a longer game being more information. Why are you misrepresenting what I'm saying? The two things are not exclusive of each other. Then why are you defending the people to be lynched via proposal of this extension plan rather than showing / convincing us that they have a good chance of flipping town? In all mafia games there is no 100% certainty unless you are either scum / power role, yet you would never cite that statistical chance as an excuse not to lynch - why is it different in this case? Am I wrong in interpreting your plan as "let's not lynch multiple people to get more information?" opposed to "let's not lynch multiple people because they have a good chance of flipping town?" Because if multiple people are scummy, why not just lynch them all? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 08 2012 03:26 prplhz wrote: @gonzaw They kind of my reads too, but I think Cephiro was painting it as how I just wanted everybody to sheep my bad reads. I was suggesting a plan that went along with general town consensus and that's important because everybody is needed to make it work. Yes, I figured that out, but why are they "kind of your reads"? You can't come out of nowhere and just agree on the consensus, you need to put reasoning yourself How can Liquid`Sheth survive if we go through with my plan? You are suggesting that he might survive if Cephiro gives Liquid`Sheth 5 votes and sandroba/Meapak_Ziphh gives him 4+ votes combined, but so what? They will be working directly against town wishes if they do that and confirm themselves as scum @syllogism If we go through with the plan I suggested I don't see why we can't lynch three people today. There are 25 votes unaccounted for and split among 3 scum that is 9/9/7, which means that they can, if the two scum groups coordinate among themselves and out themselves in the process, save two people still leaving one dead. It's just too much risk for too little gain for scum and they'll most likely end up saving at very best one of the reds in my list. If you are so sure that they're all red then I have no idea why you are stalling with the, "it is unlikely that we can't lynch more than on today". Eh, if 2 of those 3 players have 1 vote then they are still saved. No need to "out whole scumteams", Cephiro himself can do something like "Give Sheth 3 votes, give Meapak 2 votes" and get chaoser alone lynched for instance. A player doesn't need 9 votes to save himself, he just needs to have more votes than someone else. Why does it matter if all 25 votes unaccounted go 9/9/7? That means that 2 of those players will have more votes than the other one. If the unaccounted votes go 2/2/1 or 1/1/0 it is the exact same thing. If everybody except those "unaccounted votes" followed your plan, then only 1 player with 2 votes could fuck up your entire plan by lynching someone of his choice. Considering Cephiro has expressed his lack of cooperation again and again, and is not afraid to troll us and do what he wants, it's not unlikely that he can choose to use the votes to choose the lynch himself. Cephiro is already "outed" as scum, he has no risk whatsoever on giving Sheth/chaoser/Meapak votes, yet he has a tremendous gain since he single-handily decides the lynch. Really, there are too many too townie people who think that these guys are a decent lynch, every excuse you can use not to go through with it is just crazy. Sheth is obvious mafia. chaoser and Meapak are not, and there's the chance one of them may actually be town, even if unlikely. If that's true then scum can choose that one to lynch and we waste another day, and it may continue like this if we keep doing it. The plan isn't even about lynching 3 people, it's about keeping 5 people alive. Ehmm, you can keep those 5 people alive too if you give 9 votes to everybody except Sheth as well. We cannot do better than this plan because then we would be compromising townies. No we wouldn't, why would you say this? Give me/Katina/syllo/sloosh/Wiggles 8 votes to each. After that is done, start giving chaoser/Meapak votes until all votes are accounted for. There is no way Sheth can't be lynched in that case, and there is no way we would be "compromising townies". I know that you're still suspicious of me wherebugsgo and gonzaw but can't you talk to syllogism or Palmar about this or something. If you guys don't want to go through with this plan and you want to lynch only one then you have to use votes for the 5 greens in my list to spend on 2 of the reds, what votes do you intend to use for this? Which of the greens do you want to take votes away from to give to the reds? Tell sandro to vote Meapak/chaoser. If he doesn't follow the plan and outs himself to give Sheth 5 votes or something, then well what can you do but at least you'll have a confirmed scum, and only chaoser/Meapak would get lynched. chaoser and Meapak will surely cooperate I suppose, I mean, even if they are scum they would survive so they won't "out" themselves as scum to get lynched. You can always tell them to vote each other. Again, if one of them doesn't cooperate it outs himself as scum, and it would mean only one of chaoser/Meapak gets lynched The only ones I could see not cooperating in this scenario are Cephiro and Sheth, but those 2 alone can't do shit to save Sheth if we give everybody votes except Sheth. Also we tell Cephiro to only vote chaoser/Meapak (although I doubt he will listen) We can also have players outside the sandroba/Sheth/Cephiro/chaoser/Meapak circle give some votes to chaoser/Meapak, and leave some other townies with 7 votes. In this case, if Cephiro/sandroba/etc do something weird to save Sheth, since they had votes on chaoser/Meapak in the first place it would mean one of chaoser/Meapak would get lynched instead of the townie with 7 votes. With this plan, no townie (or at least no player outside the chaoser/Sheth/Meapak circle) will be compromised, and the ONLY way scum can save Sheth is to completely out 1 or 2 teammates as scum (and it will be obvious they do), and only chaoser/Meapak would get lynched. With your plan, it only takes Cephiro to do what he pleases to lynch any of Sheth/chaoser/Meapak as he sees fit without any risk, and yes if he saves Sheth only one of chaoser/Meapak is lynched. You can see which option is better, since I know it's 80% likely Cephiro will do whatever the hell he wants and decide the lynch himself, I think he even said so before (but I don't really remember). | ||
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Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
On May 08 2012 04:01 syllogism wrote: I'm not actually trying to find the whole team at once and I would be much happier if I could lynch you/sandroba/ceph first and then decide how to proceed. You have already claimed mafia, so if you somehow end up flipping town I would be requesting a ban due to not playing for your win con. So please stop trolling/insulting I have never claimed mafia. I geuss the point of this game is lying, but come on syllo. Hopefully the rest of you can see threw syllo's idiocracy. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On May 08 2012 04:18 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I have never claimed mafia. I geuss the point of this game is lying, but come on syllo. Hopefully the rest of you can see threw syllo's idiocracy. No townie would ever say something like this ironically those who aren't really caring about finding mafia are probably the towniest or just the laziest You are not amusing anymore, you are just trolling. Go away. | ||
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Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
On May 08 2012 04:06 syllogism wrote: You are arguing with someone who also said this I guess we'll have to wait till the end to see which of us was right. I know you're wrong on at least one account. Also saying you'll request a ban if I'm town is pretty sad. You just can't wrap your little ahead around people not obeying you or playing in a completely straight and orderly style. This is a game of different styles and I guess yours is to insult and call for bans. Still I just want you to know by doing that sort of thing you make the game less fun. Its like taking an outside object into the game. Its like saying hey syllo if you keep this up I'll ask for a TL ban. Because you know I can do that and for insulting me in PM's I could possibly get it. Hopefully you see the point there. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
sandroba should give 2/3 votes to Meapak/chaoser (in whatever order) Meapak should give 5 votes to chaoser chaoser should give 5 votes to Meapak If this goes according to plan, Meapak/chaoser will get 7/8 votes each, and even if Cephiro gives all 5 of his votes to Sheth, he can't save him unless sandroba outs himself as scum too. Then, the other players circle trade votes between the other players of the majority. Other tweaks could be made I guess, but unless someone else other than sandroba/Meapak/chaoser outs himself as scum and votes something completely different, then Sheth will be lynched. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 08 2012 02:03 Palmar wrote: I'm trying to figure out if there's a gaping hole somewhere in prplhz's plan. I have no interest in mafia opinions. Only thing I can think of is if one of the reads are wrong and there are 25 votes between 2 people, and even though they may out themselves scum won't care if it means 5 dead townies. This however is remedied by having the 3 suspects sprinkle their votes unevenly (0,1,1,1,2) upon the 5 townies in the plan. That way, an all in by scum team can be deflected by only 1 townie death. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
i'm sure you guys can figure something out | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Meh there may be other ways to do it, but while Cephiro is alive I won't follow prp's plan. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5202 Posts
My PM convo with Sheth, along with certain in-thread actions make me think he's scum, not even taking into account the recent dip in posting. PMs with Sheth (mostly D1/N1): + Show Spoiler + Original Message From EchelonTee: Who do you want to be lynched today? I want VE to be lynched. I bolded the parts that I found significant. Sheth is continuously wishy washy and non-committal during the early portion of the game, and it shows in his PMs. While not having solid monster reads early isn't a crime, it's strange that he has 2 apparent scum reads (VE/Sandroba), but sounds like he doesn't have a genuine opinion on them. When I poke him for supporting VE then jumping ship and calling for his lynch, his response is again really strange. Instead of saying "I think he's scum for his different playstyle", he says "it's not even worth me defending him". Call me a nitpicker, but it's as though Sheth as ready to let VE die because it's not worth anything to him, when it would make more sense of he wanted VE to die for thinking he is scum. I already pointed out earlier how your reasoning for thinking VE was different ("he's not being as quiet and conserved") was utterly wrong, and sounded fabricated. Lastly, asking about his view on M_Z he still just has "feels" on how the game is. Once again, this isn't inherently scummy, but the tone in which he says this makes him sound like he has no genuine reads. If he was approaching the game from a town perspective, he would have direct reasons for thinking this person is scum or that person is town. Some of your posts mentioning Cephiro/BC/syllogism don't make much sense. On May 04 2012 06:12 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I haven't been reading too too closely, but the fact that Cephiro put 4 votes on VE makes him look a small percentage better. Cephiro is still probably one of my top candidates for being town. As for being mafia I'm really unsure other then Gonzaw. Syllo scares me, and I scare him so I suppose there could be something there. On May 04 2012 11:56 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I liked him a lot early on, and I'm still ok with him. I wanted him to be more active in PM'ing me back, but I'll take what I can get. I'm about 50/50 on him right now. I imagine with more time I'll get to know a lot better. I haven't had a ton of time to just sit and analyze his posts either. I do imagine if hes mafia I wont' live too much longer anyway. So just my thoughts at the moment  You say Cephiro is one of your top candidates for town at 6:12, then at 11:56 you say you're only 50/50 on him? Just because he didn't PM you that much? That doesn't seem like a substantial reason to change your mind. And I don't get why you said "I do imagine if he's mafia I won't live too much longer". You were like one of his only supporters, why would he shoot you? So does the fact that you not dying mean he's town? That statement is just ??? When questioned for your reasoning, it's seems like you don't have any legitimate basing. On May 05 2012 03:14 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Ok after reading through BC's filter I like him. He has strong reads on Katina (whose I have a life defense I thought kind of lame). And I haven't looked at prplhz, but he has a read on him as well. I actually appreciate him not trusting Palmagism. As I'm somewhat in that same vote except I only distrust the gism part. So I don't mind Cephiro defending BC because earlier BC defended Cephiro. I'm still at around 50/50 for Cephiro btw. On May 05 2012 12:16 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Yea.. well done Syllo / Palmar in finding BC! So you thought BC was town b/c 1. had a read on Katina 2. had a read on prplhz 3. didn't trust Palmagism. The first two points don't make any sense because you haven't expressed that you think Katina/prplhz are scum. The third sort of makes sense (that you would trust Palmar and not syllo), but you don't explain why. Besides, there have been a number of people who were against the conglomarate, such as M_Z and chaoser at different points in time. How does that opposition make BC look town? I dunno, you never explained. Later, when BC flipped scum, your congratualtory post just made me LoL. After saying that BC is town and that syllo is likely scum, when the night post comes and you are completely wrong, you respond to the night post with "gj palmagism!" so now syllo is town in your book? since you give him cred along with Palmar for the BC kill, even though Foolishness was probably the primary pusher (and died for it). you continually shift your attitude towards syllo for not very legit reasons. Gonzaw already mentioned why this batch of reads is a load of non-commital fakiness. Go see. Knowing you to be an intelligent guy, I don't think the explanation to these accusations can just be "oh I just didn't have legit reasoning for doing all these things". It just looks like you're scum. | ||
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