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On March 21 2012 22:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Ok, I'm not going to have time to completely finish this, but this is what I wrote. It's pretty straight-forward, so you should be able to see the same things, just read his filter. I think ghost_403 is likely scum. A couple other people pointed him out in the thread, and I noticed the same things when I read his filter. The first thing I notice right off the bat, is that he's the one who started the silliness about Wheatley changing win conditions. Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 00:55 ghost_403 wrote:
Just my thoughts on the Wheatly role:
I'm not ever going to trust Wheatly. IIRC, Wheatly screws over Chell in Portal 2 by taking control of Aperture, despite his best intentions. I can see this going the same way. Wheatly begins the game by helping the town, then gets a new wincon where he has to kill us all or something. The reason this is scummy, is because it has no basis in the game, and is completely based on external flavour. So, it serves only to: 1)Spread distrust 2)Cause pointless discussion and distract from the game 3) Be pointless Then he flip-flops on his reads. I'll try to post more when I get back. =/
Except Jayjay was the one who started this discussion on page 15. While I care little for speculation about setup or roles, this discussion was bound to be brought up by someone who had played portal 2. I wouldn't consider it indicative of alignment. I am interested in seeing the rest of your case on Ghost though.
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I have to leave for class and I won't be back until 1 hour before rollover. Leaving my vote on Kenpachi for now since I still think he brings no benefit to town even as a third party. He is also sidetracking any meaningful discussion with getting other people involved with "voting GlaDos" without any real explanation. I was already concerned about Velinath but now he in his role as Wheatley also is trying to make us go along with voting GlaDos. I still want to get rid of Kenpachi for this behavior and his seeming influence over Velinath.
For these the top two cases, we all knew Dirk was a smurf of someone probably experienced, I have to wonder how you don't notice when you're logged into a different account but okay I'll take your word for it. Something to think about is that he lets slip his real identity when the pressure is on him... Then you have to remember that Foolishness picked Dirk out of all the lurkers to post against. Dirk/Palmar is by no means town in my mind yet.
Wiggles is trying to push a case on ghost at the same time, we have too many options to choose, we have to consolidate and make sure a successful lynch goes off on someone. For now the voting seems split between Bluelightz/Dirk(Palmar) with me and Zephridd still trying to get rid of Kenpachi and Wiggles voting ghost. Too many wasted votes here, if it's between Bluelightz and Dirk I agree that Bluelightz is the more scummier of the two from reading everyone elses cases and I would trust Dirk/Palmar as town for now but he needs to take charge of the town like he did in JubJub. I'm not gonna sheep the Bluelightz vote until I get a chance to see how he responds when I get back from class.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 21 2012 18:10 Dirk Hardpec wrote:Of all the things he's done this is the most telling one: Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 05:58 kitaman27 wrote:On March 19 2012 05:24 gonzaw wrote:
Ehm, so what do you think about Foolishness rhymes?
Do you think they are a legit post restriction or bullshit?
They are rather  Curious.  Another game comes to  Mind. To be Frank, I'm Always suspicious of people WhO hope to mislead us with Major distractions such as these. Food5 I hope you notice that he's pointing out exactly the same thing as I did, that foolishness was feigning a posting restriction. The difference being in that I actually drew a conclusion from it, while kitaman just flutters around the issue, really making it nothing more than just a contentless post. If foolishness was scum, this makes sense as Kita would not want to draw too much attention, but someone would definitely call him out on it at some point, not having noticed the similarities. Even if I was wrong and foolishness was town, Kita would most certainly not want to call him out too hard because he'd be fearing the consequences of such an action.
lol this is the most telling post? This shows how weak your case is.
The conclusion you come to after Foolishness gets shot is that he is scum and I was soft-defending him? Is this honestly what you believe or are you just trying to come up with an explanation that fits your story? You spent almost all of your effort yesterday discussing post restrictions of all things. Foolishness trolling makes you come to the conclusion that he is scum? You're saying you've never seen him do it as town? Either way, Foolishness's alignment isn't even tied to mine. I'm not sure why you are trying to draw the connection.
I think you're just jealous of how many pro-gamer names I was able to fit in.
On March 21 2012 18:10 Dirk Hardpec wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 07:20 kitaman27 wrote:Just read through blazing and Velinath's filters. Looking at his zelblade analysis, I scratch my head and wonder if a scum player could really come up with a case that crazy. I'm confused by his insitance that cyber is scum based on his lack of posts, but his anti-terrorist stance is more than enough to win me back over. Playing with him as scum in Resistance, he was pretty aggressive and he openly pushed his objectives. This was the only post that set off any alarms, I'd be interested in hearing his reasoning for discreditting Gonzaw. On March 17 2012 10:09 Blazinghand wrote:
Anybody who thinks seriously about electing Gonzaw should take some time to seriously consider what they're doing with their lives. Vel's posts have been pretty reasonable. Nothing groundbreaking, but I like his comment about wanting to control the outed third party for his kp, even if its a bad idea. He is pretty open with sharing his opinion and seems to get annoyed by things from a town midframe. I can't say I favor one player over the other, which isn't very helpful being the deciding vote, but I'll go with Velinath. I removed a picture from that post to keep it readable. Notice once again the soft and indecisive tone from kitaman. He really does not want to be a major factor in the game. He basically writes this post to reach no conclusion while quietly pushing the Velinath candidate. I'm not sure on Velinath's alignment yet, but I am completely 100% certain that Blazinghand was town, which is why I voted him into office.
Oh rly?
Switching from my preferred vote (Gonzaw who it seems pretty likely was town) to being the deciding vote between Vel/Blazing means I don't want to be a factor in the game? If you're not sure on Vel's alignment then how is this even a point against me? How is my indecisiveness even any different than yours? If blazinghand was such a good candidate, why weren't you campaigning harder to switch my vote? Did you not want to be a major factor in the game? :p
On March 21 2012 18:10 Dirk Hardpec wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 02:58 kitaman27 wrote:In regards to the Black Market, I'd suggest reading through the relevant posts from Insane 2. Each faction had to acquire a certain amount of currency to purchase a game breaking ability. Be careful when giving a certain amount of money to a certain faction. Additionally, does the black market use a quicktopic? As the mafia and sleeper cell leader probably have access, there is no reason for the town to not be able to read what is going on periodically as well. Being able to identify certain posting habits may lead us to their identities. Blazinghand getting shot over Velinath somewhat confuses me. Why is the runner up getting shot, rather than the player who has access to distributing pro-town powers among the members of town? The only reason I can think of Kenpachi having a GMarshal fake claim would be if he is the third party planar dragon. If that is the case, I don't think he should be today's lynch as we already used yesterday to eliminate a third party player. MidnightGladius, why are you claiming vanilla town day one? Was it simply an attempt to be elected? I'll mention my annoyance at the no flip again because I like to complain. On March 19 2012 22:30 Sbrubbles wrote:On March 19 2012 11:49 Velinath wrote:
I know which alias buys and sells stuff, but I don't know who those people are in the thread
I believe revealing how the market is conducted would merit a modkill. At the very least it's a grey area that I don't want to talk about unless I got direct confirmation that I could. @Veli, can you tell us what items are for sale? There's reason to suspect there are 5 (well, now 4) portal guns around, which (if we believe Drazerk) show what items a person has. If someone is found to have one item from this list, it would be a good lead for town. Could you explain what you mean here Sbrubbles? Also, who are you suspicious of right now, besides kenpachi? A lot of your focus this game is on mechanics, rather than scum hunting. I'm considering the following people for lynch today: Mr. WigglesOn March 17 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:
3) I used an item on Wiggles and know he is not the same as me which makes me hesitant for anyone to vote for him without an excellent argument Draz flat out claims that Wiggles has a different alignment as him and Wiggles completely ignores this. I know from my perspective, that if someone tells the thread that I'm scum or third party that I'm going to be refuting the claim 100% and going hard after him. When posting his reasoning for voting, he hardly even references draz's bizzare claim. In fact, at one point, he even starts to back off the lynch: On March 18 2012 04:30 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Also, I forgot I wanted to write in that post, but it might not be the best idea to lynch Drazerk anymore after his claim. Are you really willing to give a pass to a player who essentially claims they used an item to prove that you are scum? You argue that a kp might be better, but that is one less kp the mafia have to worry about and if no one shoots him or draz survives the hit, then we get to waste another day dealing with him. You buy his rage core claim after he claims to use an investigative item on you making you look bad? In addition, you never suggest an alternative for the lynch. When sharing his few reads that he does provide, he always gives reasons that make a player look good and bad, rather than committing strongly one way or another. The strongest read he does provide is a null read. On March 18 2012 04:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
gonzaw, so far I think that you're asking a lot of questions and posting actively, which is good. However, you're somewhat inundating the thread with them, and that means that a lot of them end up unanswered or forgotten. On March 20 2012 06:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On Zephird:
I don't like his early posting, as it mostly consists of spam and commentary. After that, though, it actually picks up a fair bit. Rather than openly share his opinion, he has to be questioned. Today he hasn't provided any suggestions for the day two lynch. BluelightzThe cases Bluelightz have provided us are essentially summaries, rather than analysis. He mentions that sinani is lurking, and quotes all three of cwave's posts, but doesn't explain why these things make them scum. In the town games I've read through, he is just as spammy, but at least he is willing to openly share his opinion. Today he wants to lynch sinani who is apparently already marked for death and kenpachi for not explaining his role (which he states is not allowed). How can kenpachi be his number one lynch candidate if he hasn't even read through his filter? As far as his opinions, they completely lack resolve. He likes wiggles for mayor, but switches off as soon draz paints him in bad light. He argues that draz is a threat to the town, but doesn't even vote for him in the end. blubbdavidI would be less willing to lynch him than the above two, but I thought he was worth mentioning anyway. On March 19 2012 03:00 blubbdavid wrote:
Rule of thumb: blubbdavid posts little or only crap = blubbdavid is town Why are you trying to use anti-town behavior to enforce the idea that you are town? Are you proud of the fact that you haven't done anything but spam the thread? I know you are somewhat competent based on your play in Newbie V, so why have all your posts been a bunch of one liners without sharing your opinions? Continuing into day 2, kita is doing his best "I don't matter" impression. But hey, town expects him to actually push lynches today, because that's the pro-town thing to do. So how can kita keep having no influence over the thread while maintaining the illusion he's actually posting soemthing of value? Simple, just post a weak analysis on three random players. If I'm right and kita flips scum it doesn't even clear any of them because Kita's follow-up to this push has been so weak, so flailing, that there has never been any risk of any of them being lynched. And kita is hardly pushing his reads.
In conclusion, I think kitaman is basically doing everything he can to remain useless in the game while appearing to be doing some work of any kind of value.
I'm hurt Palmar. I always matter.
You call my cases weak, but never comment what about them are actually weak. You say I'm useless, but attack me for calling Wiggles useless. What's with the double standard? What is your opinion on the alignment of the players that I listed?
How can you say there is a lack of follow-up, when I'm clearly trying to coordinate a day vig, question wiggles when he doesn't provide a suspect as promised, and ask blue for a list he failed to deliver?
On March 21 2012 22:16 Palmar wrote:
Posting without fear is actually one of the strongest towntells. But there is a difference between being fearless and feigning fearlessness. The worst thing for scum to do is to be in the spotlight, to be the ones leading lynches, to have lots of attention on them by posting controversial and aggravating stuff.
Scum hate leading lynches.
Kita was the first person to post an analysis and lead a lynch on day two.
Therefore, Kita must be scum.
QED.
On March 21 2012 15:39 Grackaroni wrote:
@Kitaman :Am I correct in saying that the reason you think Wiggles is scum is because he is a veteran and that he has been under-performing by not giving strong reads? (as opposed to newer players in here who are also not giving reads)
Yes.
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Nisani, when I compare your filter in this game to your filter in NMM1 (Nisani in NMM1), its like two different people.
Nisani in NMM1 is also lurking and has a small filter, but you can see he genuinely cares about the direction the game is heading. He is also supremely confident in his reads. Now comparing that to this game, you seem disinterested, your reads are lacking in confidence, and you seem to be happy just to let things unfold however they do.
Can we expect a case that requires some form of actual effort? such as: This Case
You played well in NMM1, even if you were lynched by town. If that nisani doesn't come back soon, I will happily vote to see you swing.
I am off to bed, its 1:30am here. Ill set my alarm so I am here before the lynch to put my vote somewhere meaningful.
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On March 21 2012 23:55 kitaman27 wrote:
Scum hate leading lynches.
Kita was the first person to post an analysis and lead a lynch on day two.
Therefore, Kita must be scum.
I would hardly call what you're doing leading lynches. Your big post doesn't even come to a conclusion about who we should lynch. You just point out 3 guys you'd sort of be willing to lynch today, but ultimately the decision must come from someone else?
On March 21 2012 15:21 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 15:17 Grackaroni wrote:
Now back to you, who were you going to shoot? Probably Wiggles. :/
I would definitely murder the fuck out of you if I had a gun. No "probably" no building cases against multiple people and claiming to be sort of ok with killing them all.
If you think you're leading a lynch, you're not doing a good job at it.
But I don't think that you are, I think you just got figured out.
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I just want to say that revealing my smurf was completely unintentional. I'm really sorry about that
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On March 22 2012 00:01 Adam4167 wrote:Nisani, when I compare your filter in this game to your filter in NMM1 ( Nisani in NMM1), its like two different people. Nisani in NMM1 is also lurking and has a small filter, but you can see he genuinely cares about the direction the game is heading. He is also supremely confident in his reads. Now comparing that to this game, you seem disinterested, your reads are lacking in confidence, and you seem to be happy just to let things unfold however they do. Can we expect a case that requires some form of actual effort? such as: This CaseYou played well in NMM1, even if you were lynched by town. If that nisani doesn't come back soon, I will happily vote to see you swing. I am off to bed, its 1:30am here. Ill set my alarm so I am here before the lynch to put my vote somewhere meaningful.
My play in this game is different for a lot of reasons. Mainly because I'm more active in mini games because the thread is shorter. Also, there's not much to talk about this game-- as I've mentioned earlier, this is pretty much a repeat of Day 1 because it's impossible to draw information from Drazerk's lynch.
Recently I've been trying to avoid analyses in big games because most of them suffer from confirmation bias; it's very easy to take anyone's filter and twist what they say to get an analysis (read TL Mafia XLII if you want to see a game where this happened a lot).
On Dirk: he's posted his read, which is what I was looking for before, but the analysis seems butchered like I mentioned above and it seems like he picked a random filter and pointed at random flaws in it. I'm going to trust that Palmar revealed himself by accident and it wasn't a trick to get us to pull votes off of him.
I'll keep my vote on him for now, but I'd like to see a votecount to see if a switch to Bluelightz is still viable. I would be ok with lynching him instead of Dirk.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 22 2012 00:09 Dirk Hardpec wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 23:55 kitaman27 wrote:
Scum hate leading lynches.
Kita was the first person to post an analysis and lead a lynch on day two.
Therefore, Kita must be scum.
I would hardly call what you're doing leading lynches. Your big post doesn't even come to a conclusion about who we should lynch. You just point out 3 guys you'd sort of be willing to lynch today, but ultimately the decision must come from someone else?
Nope, if you took the time to read my post, I specifically mentioned that the third person on my lynch wasn't really an option for today, I just felt that his posting needs to be addressed.
So if I'm not leading the lynch, are you? You were irrelevant on day one and your case comes 3/4th of the way through the cycle and has little value. At least my argument was legitimate and came at the beginning of the day. What is your opinion on wiggles? You dodged the question.
On March 22 2012 00:09 Dirk Hardpec wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 15:21 kitaman27 wrote:On March 21 2012 15:17 Grackaroni wrote:
Now back to you, who were you going to shoot? Probably Wiggles. :/ I would definitely murder the fuck out of you if I had a gun. No "probably" no building cases against multiple people and claiming to be sort of ok with killing them all.
Nope, you're twisting my words to make me look bad. Overconfidence is a scum trait.
I find it extremely hard to believe that out of all the players in the game, you think I'm the best lynch target.
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On March 21 2012 20:39 phagga wrote:
@Jayjay, you look pretty townish to me, but you understand that you are stretching the credibility people give you? First you say Sinani206 will die, you just can't tell when, but therefore we should ignore him. Then you come and claim Dirks abilitities look townish. So you just took two of the more favoured lynch candidates off the chopping block, and there is no way for us to verify your claims.
I am aware of that. There's not much I can do, though. I would have never announced my shot, but there was a misunderstanding in my role pm. If you look at my filter, you'll see how I am among the first persons to push him. Than he *magically* disappears from my list on night 1 (I had already used my ability then). This makes no sense as scum, does it?
I am sorry, but other than that you'll have to take my word. I won't be lynched today and there will probably be better candidates the next day. And afterwards, he will have flipped.
And it's too bad that I try to take away a lynch candidate literally EVERYBODY want kill for now, but that doesn't mean it's bad for town.
To clarify (I don't everyone to ask me for checks next day), I AM not a detective or sorts. There's a different mechanic, why I know one of Palmar's abilities. I am definitely not willing
On March 21 2012 22:55 blubbdavid wrote:
And JJ shooting someone who just didn't want to die also happened in Kaller o_O
The difference is that I didn't really shoot him. It's a "blast from the past". You'll notice the flavour. I used my ability and he'll have a blast in the future. I am NOT claiming, he is untouchable or anything. He is just marked for death and can't do anything about it.
I'll look into Ghost again, he is pretty fluffy. For now, I'll vote bluelightz for the sole reason that I don't want to kill Palmar right now.
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Mementoss Replaces Lanaia!
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To be honest, Dirk, I don't really see the merits of your case against kitaman, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, as long as you're going to maintain at least this level of activity. Note that this also hinges on Jayjay's claim about one of your abilities: if his shot on Nisani does indeed occur in a way that is consistent with how he has been describing it, then I'm much more willing to believe you.
Regardless, Bluelightz's list response to kita looks really shaky, and he hasn't responded to most of the questions put to him. I'm also confused by why he would marginalize his own case against Kenpachi by putting it in quotes. He also mentions wanting to lynch Sinani even before Kenpachi, which indicates that he either isn't reading, or is subtly trying to derail with a discussion of Jayjay's claim. Either way, he clearly isn't putting much effort into this game, even compared to the other games he's concurrently playing, and he clearly doesn't have the town's interests in mind.
##Vote: Bluelightz
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 22 2012 01:16 MidnightGladius wrote:
To be honest, Dirk, I don't really see the merits of your case against kitaman, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, as long as you're going to maintain at least this level of activity. Note that this also hinges on Jayjay's claim about one of your abilities: if his shot on Nisani does indeed occur in a way that is consistent with how he has been describing it, then I'm much more willing to believe you.
So you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after constructing a poor case, yet before you stated that you would support his lynch? Why does a anti-town action make you less willing to lynch him?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I also dislike ghost_403 as a lynch candidate today. I don't think there is a very good case at all for him to be considered.
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On March 22 2012 01:48 kitaman27 wrote:
I also dislike ghost_403 as a lynch candidate today. I don't think there is a very good case at all for him to be considered.
considering this a mayority lynch, there are just two candidates right now, imo...
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On March 21 2012 22:16 Palmar wrote:
Posting without fear is actually one of the strongest towntells. But there is a difference between being fearless and feigning fearlessness. The worst thing for scum to do is to be in the spotlight, to be the ones leading lynches, to have lots of attention on them by posting controversial and aggravating stuff.
The best thing is to quietly go along with the flow of the game as long as it suits the, for an example, re-read my case on kitaman, that's hardcore posting without any intention of pushing his lynch.
What makes you think Kita is town? What makes anyone think Kita is town?
About Grackaroni I'm just not sure. It'd be incredibly stupid to shoot me like he threatened, but it seems like an odd mafia gambit to announce one of their hits, especially since we have no clue how many night hits mafia has. I went after him because I wanted to make sure he couldn't shoot me, I still stand by that notion, when I flip town, if some asshole claims to have shot me, that asshole is almost guaranteed to be scum. But yeah, it still doesn't fit with how I'd expect mafia to play to threaten/claim that shot. So I'm not sure on his alignment.
I very much like the fact JJ54 says sinani206 will flip. He is one guy I feel strongly is scum. JJ54 looks very town to me.
lazy scum Palmar pretending to be a new player
Were lynching you
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On March 22 2012 01:48 kitaman27 wrote:
I also dislike ghost_403 as a lynch candidate today. I don't think there is a very good case at all for him to be considered.
well, if you look through his filter, it is all cotton candy. He literally posts no single read. It's fluff.
then again, I learned he is a new player...
memmtoss, david, mav and shrubbles too I think. This doesn't make things easier...
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Why isn't anyone even willing to consider Wiggles. If people think he is town, please at least say so and explain why. He is being ignored right now.
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On March 22 2012 01:55 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 22:16 Palmar wrote:
Posting without fear is actually one of the strongest towntells. But there is a difference between being fearless and feigning fearlessness. The worst thing for scum to do is to be in the spotlight, to be the ones leading lynches, to have lots of attention on them by posting controversial and aggravating stuff.
The best thing is to quietly go along with the flow of the game as long as it suits the, for an example, re-read my case on kitaman, that's hardcore posting without any intention of pushing his lynch.
What makes you think Kita is town? What makes anyone think Kita is town?
About Grackaroni I'm just not sure. It'd be incredibly stupid to shoot me like he threatened, but it seems like an odd mafia gambit to announce one of their hits, especially since we have no clue how many night hits mafia has. I went after him because I wanted to make sure he couldn't shoot me, I still stand by that notion, when I flip town, if some asshole claims to have shot me, that asshole is almost guaranteed to be scum. But yeah, it still doesn't fit with how I'd expect mafia to play to threaten/claim that shot. So I'm not sure on his alignment.
I very much like the fact JJ54 says sinani206 will flip. He is one guy I feel strongly is scum. JJ54 looks very town to me.
lazy scum Palmar pretending to be a new player Were lynching you
so you ignore completely ignore his ability?
I might add that his abilty is probably town favoured regardless of his alignment.
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On March 22 2012 01:59 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 01:55 Grackaroni wrote:On March 21 2012 22:16 Palmar wrote:
Posting without fear is actually one of the strongest towntells. But there is a difference between being fearless and feigning fearlessness. The worst thing for scum to do is to be in the spotlight, to be the ones leading lynches, to have lots of attention on them by posting controversial and aggravating stuff.
The best thing is to quietly go along with the flow of the game as long as it suits the, for an example, re-read my case on kitaman, that's hardcore posting without any intention of pushing his lynch.
What makes you think Kita is town? What makes anyone think Kita is town?
About Grackaroni I'm just not sure. It'd be incredibly stupid to shoot me like he threatened, but it seems like an odd mafia gambit to announce one of their hits, especially since we have no clue how many night hits mafia has. I went after him because I wanted to make sure he couldn't shoot me, I still stand by that notion, when I flip town, if some asshole claims to have shot me, that asshole is almost guaranteed to be scum. But yeah, it still doesn't fit with how I'd expect mafia to play to threaten/claim that shot. So I'm not sure on his alignment.
I very much like the fact JJ54 says sinani206 will flip. He is one guy I feel strongly is scum. JJ54 looks very town to me.
lazy scum Palmar pretending to be a new player Were lynching you so you ignore completely ignore his ability? I might add that his abilty is probably town favoured regardless of his alignment.
I haven't read yet. I just saw his name and got excited.
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On March 22 2012 01:59 kitaman27 wrote:
Why isn't anyone even willing to consider Wiggles. If people think he is town, please at least say so and explain why. He is being ignored right now.
Why is Nisani being ignored?
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EPT
