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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:11 wherebugsgo wrote: if you are town you are fucking retarded for not seeing how scummy BH is right now I mean, you're just clearly not even paying attention. So I'm going to stop responding to you until I respond to your case. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
what analysis? You called him a lurker and then voted him. Literally all you did was rip off the quote that BC pointed out, say nothing that isn't already public knowledge, and then vote risk.nuke. Then, you turned around and called out Toad for "not making an original case" when you didn't make one yourself! Everyone, take a look at this shit: On February 24 2012 09:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote: However lets move onto some of my reads instead of people I have on my watch list. Risk.nuke This guy is someone who has done nothing to help the town while coming out with stellar posts like I will link his filter as well for people to continue reading for them selves. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=76576 Now, why do I mention risk nuke? Simple. The two posts I quoted imo show a high level of anti town sentiment via play. Why you ask? Town has no reason to not spend some time figuring out the main points of a case. Voting once perhaps but given that he was posting at various points throughout the day he would have known the arguments against myself and redff to be able to give an actual opinion on which he felt should be lynched. Actively admitting to sheeping a player without actually justifying a vote is very scumlike in my eyes. Following it up with the "don't lynch someone who claimed tracker day 1" is also very very suspect to me as well. I say this because by allowing someone to claim a role day 1 that is not confirmable via action day 1 only opens them up to potential role tampering. You could get roleblocked, your target always seems to die, your checks mysteriously are wrong, etc.. In these cases said player would ultimately die to town regardless of alignment. It also opens a level of credibility the player does not deserve. People instantly see a role that is normally a pro town role and instantly assume that player is town. If the claim is fake, or the role is in mafia hands this leads to a player being "confirmed" when they in fact are not. Obviously a player could be the role they claimed, but given that you will never be able to confirm their role / alignment without outing another role or killing said player it is never ideal to let them stay alive. Both of the posts I mentioned are extremely suspect in my eyes for reasons I posted, he also has alot of what I would deem fluff posts which are not really helpful in any way. As of now I will say most likely scum and will cement my read as he continues to post. compare that to BH's vote post: On February 24 2012 10:07 Blazinghand wrote: I don't like risk.nuke. He did nothing but make some vague complaints about redFF, then nakedly voted BC with no explanation, and when questioned, was like: And has since disappeared from the thread. He's probably hanging out with his scumteam being like "hey guys check out this mad lurking skill" and lurking. ##vote: risk.nuke Now look what he tells Toad to do: On February 24 2012 10:09 Blazinghand wrote: ] If that's the case, then make your own read and judge this indepently for yourself. I think he's scum and am voting him, and would like you to do so as well-- but if you don't think he's scum simply because you are suspicious of me, try to just do an objective analysis of him and see what you think scumbag BH: sheeps BC's read on risk.nuke tells Toad to make his own read asks me whether his analysis is wrong On February 24 2012 10:13 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean, you're just clearly not even paying attention. So I'm going to stop responding to you until I respond to your case. wtf is this opposite day? BH JUST CLAIMED SCUM stop being thick and start reading | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:18 prplhz wrote: BloodyC0bbler's latest post itself is a lot more interesting than the case on him. I think his accusations on risk.nuke are good too but I'm on RebirthOfLeGenD right now. nobody cares, stop announcing things that are utterly worthless | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Um...we're talking to BC right now. Scum DID prevent "that". What are you even talking about guy? I was one of the guys who unvoted BC the last 30 minutes Because he suddenly jumped to a lot of votes from people I do not like. I quoted those 3 posts BH did if you remember that. Risk voted BC without a reason and it really looked like scum actually tried to get BC haning the last couple of minutes. However I doubt that mafia commited, they probably thought BC is a better lynch then redFF for mafia (if both are town, which I am inclined to believe) and therefore probably got 1, maybe 2 people voting BC as well. That's my interpretation of what happened yesterday. That's why I unvoted BC and voted BH instead. Do you think I am mafia VE? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
If BH is mafia I don't understand what his intention is. A mafia player has a team advising them on what to do. I can discern no real intentions from him, I get a neutral read. VE stop announcing how kick ass your case is gonna be and just post it. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 24 2012 06:59 wherebugsgo wrote: Okay deadline soon and class as well (so even if I'm alive I won't be on till much later. Midterms  )My thoughts ATM: If I die, 100% kill Dr. H. Last time when he was scum I pressured him (albeit harder and during the day, since I actually had time) and then ended up dying. Right now his actions are weird in that certain things he is saying make sense, but other things do not. I'm not very sure on his alignment and many of the things he said recently (particularly what he pointed out about RoL's stance on BC and his agreement with me about VE) make sense. If I'm alive I'll have to strongly reconsider my thoughts on him. Gut says scum, and I can't figure out why. VE and RoL are both good lynches for today, IMO. I would also support killing prplhz, who has been completely inactive over the last 24 hours and said some incredibly strange things day 1. He seemed to sheep syllo just to sheep syllo, with no real opinions of his own. Sure, it's great to follow syllo's lead if he's town, but not everything syllo says is infallible (and yes, if I die please please please listen to syllogism. If he's scum he won't keep the charade up long since his scum confidence is low but at this point I doubt he actually is scum.) VE is a good lynch basically because he said BC was null but then he repeatedly called him scum. His actions don't line up with his words and his scum list, as Dr. h said, looks very similar to the bs he was writing in Arkham City. RoL is a good lynch because he voted redFF but said BC was scummy. I hope this gets in on time On February 24 2012 07:08 wherebugsgo wrote: Alright I'm not gonna be back till later: ##vote VisceraEyes Points of note: -said BC was "null" but also somehow scummy enough to vote -has written fluff posts that are incredibly similar to those from Arkham City -calls me wishy washy but deliberately avoids calling me scum or even scummy because of it Let me just attack the points of note, because they're easier to digest and they pretty clearly outline his entire gripe with me. - "said BC was "null" but aslo somehow scummy enough to vote" First of all, here is the post I assume WBG is referring to. On February 23 2012 12:46 VisceraEyes wrote: FUCK Jackal - I'd had myself convinced it was Thursday all day - your appearance in the thread has reminded me that it's not. X( Well, while you're here (smashing all my dreams), how about you help me out with something. Can YOU explain what is townie about BC's behavior/defenses that had everyone unwilling to lynch him? I'm not seeing it. All I see are a few angrily and hastily thrown together posts which doesn't really much indicate town to me, although it does indicate null as fuck to me which taken with his behavior the rest of the day seems incriminating enough.... I never EVER said that BC himself was "null". I said that the action of him angrily and hastily throwing together posts was null as fuck. I then go on to say that with the rest of BC's behavior outside the anger and hasty annoyed posts, referring to his nudge of redFF, lack of commitment to a read of red, failure to address the concerns I brought forward after his first appearance in thread, etc., seems incriminating to me. This post is me asking Jackal why the fuck BC lived and redFF died after claiming Tracker. I never at any point say that I have a 'null' read on BC, I'm not in the business of pushing my 'null' reads' wagons to the very last minute. -"has written fluff posts similar to BCAC" This is cute, especially coming from WBG. Mafia is a social game. If all I've been doing had been making fluff posts with no content, this would be a valid point. However, I've put forward more content in D1 than WBG has all game. Easily. EASILY WBG FUCKING HANDS DOWN. -"calls me wishy washy but deliberately avoids calling me scum or even scummy because of it" This is....hilarious. On February 22 2012 18:56 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Lynch List of Storm's End BloodyC0bbler - My complaints echo the complaints of players such as DocH and Syllogism...he's had plenty of opportunity to come look for scum - he hasn't. He placed a vote on redFF without saying whether he thought he was scum or not. I was less than satisfied with his responses to my posts, and I've been unimpressed with his effort so far in the game. I voted for this guy in L, and while I was herpin and a derpin, he was finding scum and establishing his innocence. wherebugsgo - WBG has similarly not been interested in finding scum. He called chaoser scum lightly at the beginning of the day, but it looked more like an excuse to get into a conversation with him than anything. This is directly after he just got done buddying him in his introduction post.  Followed up with calling redFF bad ad nauseum. Very clear to not say scum - only very bad. Suddenly this all changes after red sheeps after Jackal? Sheeping is something scum and town do in equal parts - verily, many a veteran townies count on a few sheep to push their agendas. Claims that most of what red has done can be explained 'with scum motivations'. Fails to elaborate or support this idea. Just throws it out there.RebirthOfLegenD - my weakest read - I'm really only interested in showing RoL rope if he doesn't start looking for scum. This redFF wagon essentially pushed itself, and he's making it his MISSION to make it happen. I don't even know if RoL thinks red is scum or not. But it's pretty clear that he wants red to die. TODAY. I can support a lynch of any of these three players, my preference is WBG, followed by BC, with RoL being my least favorite choice. On February 24 2012 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Doc that this doesn't have to be a conspiracy thing - this is WBG's strategy regardless of his alignment as far as I'm aware - get someone flustered, see if they slip up (town)/call their reactions scummy (scum). However, taken with the rest of his play, I agree with you that he's probably scum trying to fluster you this game. Radfield was leading scum unlike I've seen a vet lead a scumteam before, and I've been on a few scumteams here. I probably wouldn't take those quotes to be 'general scum strategy' here...although, I haven't played with you enough to know if you're REALLY that dangerous or not. I'm aware I haven't responded to your case against me - I'll get around to it. Please keep that in mind regardless of what you perceive my alignment to be...sound observation is sound. WBG is latching onto DocH's case without doing a thing himself. He's not even interested in my side, he hasn't asked questions, he's just throwing shit to see what sticks. Nothing is going to fucking stick. Because it's all bullshit. It's a bullshit case built on someone else's legwork who (no offense Doc) is probably just pissed that I had them fooled last game with my scum play. He's bouncing around, hoping someone somewhere will take what he's doing as effort, but I think most everyone here is smarter than that. ##Vote: wherebugsgo Bang. Die scum. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 24 2012 11:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Boiling down an entire case to "revenge" and writing it off like that is monumentally stupid by the way No Doc, I'm going to respond to your case - I just get the feeling that you're NOT going to trust things I'm saying because you're biased because of last game...that's all. I go to pretty hard lengths to APPEAR the same as town or scum. I mean, take what you want from that, but it's just how I see successful Mafia as being played. I'll respond to your case properly, I promise...but I actually do have to do some work (I mean, they're paying me for it), so it will be just a bit later. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I hope you're not talking about the way I format my posts Doc. I was talking about my playstyle, the way I push people. I just like making things look pretty dude. Go read my FIRST GAME HERE. It's something I do regardless of alignment or role...because I like doing it. It helps me organize my own thoughts while proofreading posts and (by my estimation) helps the reader more clearly take in the info I'm presenting. Okay, fuck it. I'ma go do this because I think you've got me all wrong (for real this time.) But to be fair, I'm going to be repeating myself a bit because WBG's case is derived (unrepentantly) directly from yours...so bear with me. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote: VisceraEyes The most obvious choice imo. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=117978 I looked far back to find a game with VE as town and did. Responsibility Mafia. I noticed something that immediately stuck out to me as a scum player trying to imitate his own town meta. In RM VisceraEyes makes catchy posts when he calls out a scum. He will bold/color his posts, say it's some kind of special list, etc. In RM he is focused. He calls out one scum and backs his case up. It's not a fluff post. It's not a summary. This town VE doesn't bother with that kind of stuff. Scum VE in Arkham City posts similar lists, but instead of filling it with substance and focus he does this: A long list of players with basic summaries of what may or may not make them suspicious is fucking USELESS. It's not a case, it doesn't start a bandwagon, it doesn't get you anywhere closer to lynching scum, it shows a lack of effort in picking one and making a convincing argument (because you can't) it shows a lack of focus and it seems to me you are just trying to imitate a similar style of play. But the substance is different. He argues with redFF but doesn't make a post summizing his case, making his points clearly in one spot. Instead he chooses to fill those "list" or whatever posts with more useless filler. Useless summary. A lynch list is retarded it just makes you look like town. You can really just sum up other peoples arguments too, reword them a little, boom you look like you're helping. You don't need to announce that you agree with me if you're town. Just expand on my ideas or push them too. You seem uncertain and wishy washy about BC but at the same time very very upset he wasn't lynched? Why is that? If you're town you only have reason to be disappointed that he wasn't lynched if you are pretty proof-positive he is scum, especially with a player of BC's potential. The early game behavior I'm not too awfully alarmed by other than your friendly attitude. You are giving out compliments and buddying up with people a lot which isn't something I see a lot of town players take the effort to do. Doubtlessly, you've learned a bit from Arkham City. However, the early game behavior doesn't jump off the page as helpful pro-town shit either and your behavior after the flip is very concerning: very defensive and overreacting to the situation. I really doubt I'm 3/3 here but I try not to think too much about the scum team as I do about individual scum. When I think about the scum team I worry too much about if they would bus, are arguments fake, etc. etc. etc. and I go insane. It's much easier to just analyze people as individuals and determine whether or not I find them to be scummy. You'd be surprised how little I actually learned from ACBC. Like, I still to this day attest that the only reason I got lynched was because Palmar told you guys I was scum.  Anyway, here's my defense. You chose one post to illustrate my read of BC. One. BC had been my strongest scum-read all of D1, and aside from the 'useless summaries' I posted, he's pretty much the only person I called out as being scum all day yesterday aside from early on in the day when I thought red was scum. And as I told WBG, you're taking what I'm saying out of context. I was saying his action was null, but with his other actions it looked scummy. I was asking Jackal a question, and this was AFTER the lynch. You remember, the lynch with no flip? Where all of us were left with nothing but more questions? I don't understand why you're saying I'm 'wishywashy' on my BC read. I think the guy is scum, and I want him to come in here and prove me wrong if he's not. As far as my lynch-list is concerned - it's a lynch-list. It doesn't get any plainer than that. Those are the people that I'd like to hang. But to call my comments 'useless fluff' or 'rewording others' cases' is unfair. I was trying to be succinct. And if you look closely, you'll notice that in the scum-meta you found, I wasn't really giving any thoughts at all...just spreading doubt. And like EVERY READ was a lurker. I literally SAID that I was echoing your complaints on BC, but then I add thoughts of my own (I was dissatisfied with his responses to my posts, briefly gave a meta-read). And with WBG, I didn't just summarize his play - I questioned things I thought were questionable and noted things I thought were notable. They weren't just 'things that may or may not indicate his alignment', they were things that gave away his alignment to me. You're mistaking my lynch-list for a case. A case it was not sir. Nor was my defense of WBG's farce, in spite of it ending with a vote of him. And I'm sorry I quoted Simpsons at you at what I felt was an appropriate time (when you were saying things I agreed with and hadn't considered). I get that you're super serious, but I try to also have fun in these games. I understand that the fun comes to people in different ways, I just assumed a little joke was cool. Henceforth, I'll treat you with the same super-seriousness that I treat Syllogism. Clearly you're a no-nonsense kind of scumhunter. I can get behind that. | ||
kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
A zero kp setup seems extremely difficult to balance, especially for a "normal game". Scum might have a poisoner (in which we wouldn't have a notification), town might have ton of roles punishing mistakes, or scum might have some sort of conditional kp, but it seems much more likely they missed on their hits. On February 24 2012 06:59 wherebugsgo wrote: If I die, 100% kill Dr. H. Last time when he was scum I pressured him (albeit harder and during the day, since I actually had time) and then ended up dying. This makes me feel good about bugs since its certainly true from lotr. Additionally, he didn't spearhead the lynch on day one, which is a common bugs scum pattern. I was somewhat weirded out by the "I love you" comments, since he did the exact same thing with chaoser in arkham, but I disagree with VE that he is the best lynch for today. syllo has more posts on day one than he usually does in an entire game as scum. Unless he has drastically changed his scum game, he is looking town. It's already been said, but I'll agree that an inactive RoL is a scum RoL. He promised a good showing, but right now he being considered for a lynch. Got anything to say? I dislike people passing off prpl as bad. He had a monster scum game in the large game hosted by GM and had a good showing in responsibility. That being said, his "I don't think red is scum, but I'll vote for him to secure the lynch" post is really poor. It was really early in the day, why isn't he providing an alternate lynch candidate instead? Additionally, his posting has been really defensive and it shows that not getting himself lynched seems to be a priority. nuke hasn't done any scum hunting. His explanation for his vote was "because syllo said so". I'll see if I can come up with a better case on someone tomorrow, possibly chaoser. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:17 wherebugsgo wrote: wtf is this opposite day? BH JUST CLAIMED SCUM stop being thick and start reading I don't know if everyone else quit reading WBG's derp when I did, but I just noticed this: our first vote of the day was WBG on me, based on a shoddy 'case'. Now, I hadn't refuted his nonsense yet, in fact had done nothing but antagonize him. Yet this post seems to indicate that he knows I'm town. Why would he tell me to 'stop being thick and start reading' if he actually thinks I'm scum? Why would I give a shit if BH claimed scum if I were his scum-buddy?WBG is scum guys, and he claimed it hilariously by telling me that BH claimed scum. How's that for irony? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I pushed BloodyC0bbler around the time I said that so it's not true when you say that I didn't provide an alternative. I just wanted to guys to know early on that I was most likely going to switch my vote to redFF if the alternative was a no-lynch so it wouldn't cause any unnecessary panic in case I would end up doing it. Not getting lynched is first priority for me when the townie who was making the most sense until then suddenly suggests me for lynch, especially when I was painfully aware of how bad I looked. I also thought people would be more willing to change away from redFF than they ended up being. I was hoping I'd get ignored (yea, you're probably going to jump on that word) until I had some more confidence in my reads. I did chime in to support syllogism who I found pretty town, who has good day1 reads and probably is one of the better players in this game, stacked as it is. | ||
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