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Hammer Mini Mafia - Page 13

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[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
January 26 2012 19:17 GMT
#241
On January 27 2012 02:57 Dirkzor wrote:
@Lay

I don't know if you misunderstood the mechanic or I misunderstood your post.
It IS possible to have more then 5 votes during the daytime. If everyone give their votes to palmar he could potentially have 31 votes day 2. Come night 2 he would have to give away atleast 24 votes to one person.

I think that paperscraps have a point that we need to agree on a method to control the votes.

1) and 2) are only viable for a short amount of time (as lay pointed out) but can be good in the start to keep votes spread out.
3) is the best way to continuosly keep track of where people put their votes.


3 takes more management, but will be better in the end. I suggest Day 1 and 2 circle trading to start stability, then once the game starts intensifying and we get more information we can switch to plan 3 when everyone's ready.

Given that 1) is trading 1 vote and 2) is trading all but 1 vote, I'd have to go with 1 because if mafia somehow gets ahold of votes and don't give them away, we give them less VP to vote with and can stop them before it's too late.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
January 26 2012 19:21 GMT
#242
Palmar is a cowboy. He don't need no stinkin' plans. I'd actually be looking at him as scum if he did agree to anybodies day 1 plan no matter how transparent it is. Because Palmar is a cowboy and he don't need no stinkin' plans.
Life can only kill you once.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
January 26 2012 19:57 GMT
#243
We all got pieces of crazy in us, some bigger pieces than others.
Computer says mafia
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
January 26 2012 20:08 GMT
#244
On January 27 2012 04:07 Palmar wrote:
That's actually not scummy.

But you already know that don't you?


I know that the action itself isn't scummy, but that you expect us all to go along with it so early IS scummy Palmar. I realize that if you're town, then you're the only one who you can trust and would therefor want to decide the lynch yourself - the reason I think you're scum is because you expect town to just listen to you without explaining any of your motivations.

Prove me wrong bro. I'm not beyond reason - but the way you're approaching this game so far has been sketchy as hell. My vote stands.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
January 26 2012 20:11 GMT
#245
Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
January 26 2012 20:19 GMT
#246
On January 27 2012 05:11 layabout wrote:
Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around


I've already stated - I'm for a plan that revolves one of our votes to a predictable person at night. I'm not bickering - I'm stating my intent to lynch. We do have to lynch today, whether we decide unanimously on a plan to follow or not. Who do you want to lynch layabout, and why?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
January 26 2012 20:22 GMT
#247
let's lynch layabout for trying to play gandhi
Computer says mafia
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
January 26 2012 20:35 GMT
#248
@ViceraEyes
nobody yet.
Voting for Palmar now is dumb though, and i don't like that you have done that.

The thing is, i think the plan is good but there are drawbacks and we have not fully addressed them. After a few miss-lynches the scum could exploit the "circle vote trading" and win, so if we agree to follow the strategy then we should likely decide how long we shall do it for. At the same time it seems likely that there will be roles that can significantly affect the game and so it may be best to agree on the best plan for now and then adapt it as the game grows older and we gain more information.
+ Show Spoiler [likely there will be power roles?] +
since all of the mechanics we are aware of seem pro-scum it seems probable that there will be pro-town mechanics that we are not aware of.


I think we should consider something else:
A player that trades votes to a player that gets killed will have their vote refunded. This will mean that for the next night they will have an extra vote to trade or they will keep an extra vote. If there are extra votes we need to consider what players who get them should do with them because the Mafia will essentially have the power to decide who gets the extra vote(s).

I support the everyone trades 1 vote to the person below plan.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
January 26 2012 20:43 GMT
#249
On January 27 2012 05:11 layabout wrote:
Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around

You have an individual named Palmar that has clearly stated he's above plans. So if we don't have everybody on board what good is the plan? Do we just skip him and let him do what he wants? Thing is this is the arrogant townie Palmar I'm used to seeing. So I have no desire to lynch him. So what plan do we devise that allows us to ignore the cowboy from Iceland.
Life can only kill you once.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
January 26 2012 20:45 GMT
#250
On January 27 2012 05:35 layabout wrote:
@ViceraEyes
nobody yet.
Voting for Palmar now is dumb though, and i don't like that you have done that.

The thing is, i think the plan is good but there are drawbacks and we have not fully addressed them. After a few miss-lynches the scum could exploit the "circle vote trading" and win, so if we agree to follow the strategy then we should likely decide how long we shall do it for. At the same time it seems likely that there will be roles that can significantly affect the game and so it may be best to agree on the best plan for now and then adapt it as the game grows older and we gain more information.
+ Show Spoiler [likely there will be power roles?] +
since all of the mechanics we are aware of seem pro-scum it seems probable that there will be pro-town mechanics that we are not aware of.


I think we should consider something else:
A player that trades votes to a player that gets killed will have their vote refunded. This will mean that for the next night they will have an extra vote to trade or they will keep an extra vote. If there are extra votes we need to consider what players who get them should do with them because the Mafia will essentially have the power to decide who gets the extra vote(s).

I support the everyone trades 1 vote to the person below plan.


This is actually something I hadn't even considered. However, we can't "decide" what to do about it now because scum would be likely to exploit it somehow if we decide to do the vote-rotation.

Actually, with this in mind it seems more like a scum-favored decision to rotate the votes predictably.

##Unvote: Palmar

Suddenly the thought of just giving our vote to the most town-seeming individual has merit.

I'm just gonna shut up then.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
January 26 2012 20:49 GMT
#251
On January 27 2012 05:43 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 05:11 layabout wrote:
Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around

You have an individual named Palmar that has clearly stated he's above plans. So if we don't have everybody on board what good is the plan? Do we just skip him and let him do what he wants? Thing is this is the arrogant townie Palmar I'm used to seeing. So I have no desire to lynch him. So what plan do we devise that allows us to ignore the cowboy from Iceland.


Perhaps just "ignore the cowboy from Iceland" as a plan? Simplicity in form, effective in design.

I kid, I kid.

Jackal, are you adverse to discussing the lynch before we hear from everyone? Who are your top 2 candidates right now?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
January 26 2012 20:56 GMT
#252
On January 27 2012 05:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 05:43 Jackal58 wrote:
On January 27 2012 05:11 layabout wrote:
Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around

You have an individual named Palmar that has clearly stated he's above plans. So if we don't have everybody on board what good is the plan? Do we just skip him and let him do what he wants? Thing is this is the arrogant townie Palmar I'm used to seeing. So I have no desire to lynch him. So what plan do we devise that allows us to ignore the cowboy from Iceland.


Perhaps just "ignore the cowboy from Iceland" as a plan? Simplicity in form, effective in design.

I kid, I kid.

Jackal, are you adverse to discussing the lynch before we hear from everyone? Who are your top 2 candidates right now?

Nobody yet really. If I had a gun to my head and had to vote it would be for WBG just for the hilarity.

On January 26 2012 18:45 wherebugsgo wrote:
The only way I'm going to die this game is if I get shot by scum.

Life can only kill you once.
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
January 26 2012 20:58 GMT
#253
On January 27 2012 05:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 05:35 layabout wrote:
@ViceraEyes
nobody yet.
Voting for Palmar now is dumb though, and i don't like that you have done that.

The thing is, i think the plan is good but there are drawbacks and we have not fully addressed them. After a few miss-lynches the scum could exploit the "circle vote trading" and win, so if we agree to follow the strategy then we should likely decide how long we shall do it for. At the same time it seems likely that there will be roles that can significantly affect the game and so it may be best to agree on the best plan for now and then adapt it as the game grows older and we gain more information.
+ Show Spoiler [likely there will be power roles?] +
since all of the mechanics we are aware of seem pro-scum it seems probable that there will be pro-town mechanics that we are not aware of.


I think we should consider something else:
A player that trades votes to a player that gets killed will have their vote refunded. This will mean that for the next night they will have an extra vote to trade or they will keep an extra vote. If there are extra votes we need to consider what players who get them should do with them because the Mafia will essentially have the power to decide who gets the extra vote(s).

I support the everyone trades 1 vote to the person below plan.


This is actually something I hadn't even considered. However, we can't "decide" what to do about it now because scum would be likely to exploit it somehow if we decide to do the vote-rotation.

Actually, with this in mind it seems more like a scum-favored decision to rotate the votes predictably.

##Unvote: Palmar

Suddenly the thought of just giving our vote to the most town-seeming individual has merit.

I'm just gonna shut up then.

1 vote each? 2 votes each? some give vote and some rotate?
which idea has merit?

If say everyone gave 1 player 2 votes then that player would decide the lynch next day and would then have to give away enough votes for another player to decide the following days lynch. That seems like an extremely risky plan.
If they were given 1 vote then we would have a similar but less dangerous situation.
+ if that player was town and was given or was about to be given lots of votes couldn't the mafia just kill them and ruin everything?

If we agreed to give votes to one player we would not be able to reliable check who had given them to that player and who hadn't. Knowing who is giving votes to who is something that could be valuable and i don't think we should allow mafia to deny us that information.


Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
January 26 2012 21:04 GMT
#254
Way to flip completely VE... O_o

That one person have 4 votes instead of 3 during day2 and the potential to have 5 votes and everyone else still have 3 on day3 is not something that I find particularly scummy. Even if mafia want to hammer on day3 they can't since they will only have 14 of the 38 votes. If they during the night2 trade differently then we planned they can potentially got to 18 votes day3.
It only gets scummy if someone suggest to continue with the plan - and no one have.
(This assume that 1 townperson dies in possesion of 2 votes each day and night. 4 person and 8 votes total. Also assume that everyone trade 1 vote each night)

Given that there might be power out there to influence votingpower I don't think we should be using the "Everyone trade 1 vote to player below" plan more then night 1. After that option 3) is a much better alternative.
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
January 26 2012 21:05 GMT
#255
I'm back.
I'll do exacly as palmar. I'll give my ONE obligatory vote to the person I think is town the most.

The vote system seems to me like a very pro-town mechanic. Having a vote circle completly nullfies that.
Conclusion: Votecircles are dumb

FoS: VE, did you seriously just attempt to lynch palmar day 1.
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
January 26 2012 21:21 GMT
#256
On January 27 2012 06:05 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm back.
I'll do exacly as palmar. I'll give my ONE obligatory vote to the person I think is town the most.

The vote system seems to me like a very pro-town mechanic. Having a vote circle completly nullfies that.
Conclusion: Votecircles are dumb

FoS: VE, did you seriously just attempt to lynch palmar day 1.


Yes, because lynching someone I think is scum is scummy. Pull the other one risk. Names don't move me. If he's playing like scum I'm going to vote for his lynch. I removed my vote because the idea of giving his one vote to someone pro-town actually makes more sense than the vote-circle idea, but I think he honestly thinks people should just give them their votes, and I think that's asinine and senseless this early, and it's scummy as sin to me.

Care to tell me why wanting to lynch scum is scummy?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
January 26 2012 21:22 GMT
#257
On January 27 2012 06:05 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm back.
I'll do exacly as palmar. I'll give my ONE obligatory vote to the person I think is town the most.

The vote system seems to me like a very pro-town mechanic. Having a vote circle completly nullfies that.
Conclusion: Votecircles are dumb

FoS: VE, did you seriously just attempt to lynch palmar day 1.

Explain why the vote system is pro-town when mafia can effectively never lose their votes yet town can almost never avoid losing their votes.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
January 26 2012 21:27 GMT
#258
On January 27 2012 06:05 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm back.
I'll do exacly as palmar. I'll give my ONE obligatory vote to the person I think is town the most.

The vote system seems to me like a very pro-town mechanic. Having a vote circle completly nullfies that.
Conclusion: Votecircles are dumb

FoS: VE, did you seriously just attempt to lynch palmar day 1.


I think mafia has potential to take control of voting power. Say for simplicity's sake (this is hypothetical, not accusing anyone) that the first 4 people are all mafia. Let's say they get 3-4 votes from other townies, and then just do their own vote circle. They can slowly accumulate votes in this way and then have the voting power to lynch whoever they want.

First night, we know nothing, anyone willing let's set up a votecircle, that way Palmar and whoever else can get their way and trade to who they think is a townie, and those willing just exchange one vote to each other.

By the end of the day we can post numbers of people willing so you just go down the list.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
January 26 2012 21:31 GMT
#259
Also, Node, LSB and NetStalker have yet to post since this game began. It's fairly early, but I think that should go into consideration.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
January 26 2012 21:46 GMT
#260
These Are Speculations

It's not true when some dude said that all mechanics are town favored, because scum only has 1 KP which is clearly not to their advantage. If we manage to make voting power balance to shift slightly in town direction
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
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