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On January 27 2012 02:57 Dirkzor wrote:
@Lay
I don't know if you misunderstood the mechanic or I misunderstood your post.
It IS possible to have more then 5 votes during the daytime. If everyone give their votes to palmar he could potentially have 31 votes day 2. Come night 2 he would have to give away atleast 24 votes to one person.
I think that paperscraps have a point that we need to agree on a method to control the votes.
1) and 2) are only viable for a short amount of time (as lay pointed out) but can be good in the start to keep votes spread out.
3) is the best way to continuosly keep track of where people put their votes.
3 takes more management, but will be better in the end. I suggest Day 1 and 2 circle trading to start stability, then once the game starts intensifying and we get more information we can switch to plan 3 when everyone's ready.
Given that 1) is trading 1 vote and 2) is trading all but 1 vote, I'd have to go with 1 because if mafia somehow gets ahold of votes and don't give them away, we give them less VP to vote with and can stop them before it's too late.
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Palmar is a cowboy. He don't need no stinkin' plans. I'd actually be looking at him as scum if he did agree to anybodies day 1 plan no matter how transparent it is. Because Palmar is a cowboy and he don't need no stinkin' plans.
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We all got pieces of crazy in us, some bigger pieces than others.
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On January 27 2012 04:07 Palmar wrote:
That's actually not scummy.
But you already know that don't you?
I know that the action itself isn't scummy, but that you expect us all to go along with it so early IS scummy Palmar. I realize that if you're town, then you're the only one who you can trust and would therefor want to decide the lynch yourself - the reason I think you're scum is because you expect town to just listen to you without explaining any of your motivations.
Prove me wrong bro. I'm not beyond reason - but the way you're approaching this game so far has been sketchy as hell. My vote stands.
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Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around
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On January 27 2012 05:11 layabout wrote:
Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around
I've already stated - I'm for a plan that revolves one of our votes to a predictable person at night. I'm not bickering - I'm stating my intent to lynch. We do have to lynch today, whether we decide unanimously on a plan to follow or not. Who do you want to lynch layabout, and why?
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let's lynch layabout for trying to play gandhi
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@ViceraEyes
nobody yet.
Voting for Palmar now is dumb though, and i don't like that you have done that.
The thing is, i think the plan is good but there are drawbacks and we have not fully addressed them. After a few miss-lynches the scum could exploit the "circle vote trading" and win, so if we agree to follow the strategy then we should likely decide how long we shall do it for. At the same time it seems likely that there will be roles that can significantly affect the game and so it may be best to agree on the best plan for now and then adapt it as the game grows older and we gain more information.
+ Show Spoiler [likely there will be power roles?] +since all of the mechanics we are aware of seem pro-scum it seems probable that there will be pro-town mechanics that we are not aware of.
I think we should consider something else:
A player that trades votes to a player that gets killed will have their vote refunded. This will mean that for the next night they will have an extra vote to trade or they will keep an extra vote. If there are extra votes we need to consider what players who get them should do with them because the Mafia will essentially have the power to decide who gets the extra vote(s).
I support the everyone trades 1 vote to the person below plan.
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On January 27 2012 05:11 layabout wrote:
Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around
You have an individual named Palmar that has clearly stated he's above plans. So if we don't have everybody on board what good is the plan? Do we just skip him and let him do what he wants? Thing is this is the arrogant townie Palmar I'm used to seeing. So I have no desire to lynch him. So what plan do we devise that allows us to ignore the cowboy from Iceland.
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On January 27 2012 05:35 layabout wrote:@ViceraEyes nobody yet. Voting for Palmar now is dumb though, and i don't like that you have done that. The thing is, i think the plan is good but there are drawbacks and we have not fully addressed them. After a few miss-lynches the scum could exploit the "circle vote trading" and win, so if we agree to follow the strategy then we should likely decide how long we shall do it for. At the same time it seems likely that there will be roles that can significantly affect the game and so it may be best to agree on the best plan for now and then adapt it as the game grows older and we gain more information. + Show Spoiler [likely there will be power roles?] +since all of the mechanics we are aware of seem pro-scum it seems probable that there will be pro-town mechanics that we are not aware of. I think we should consider something else: A player that trades votes to a player that gets killed will have their vote refunded. This will mean that for the next night they will have an extra vote to trade or they will keep an extra vote. If there are extra votes we need to consider what players who get them should do with them because the Mafia will essentially have the power to decide who gets the extra vote(s).I support the everyone trades 1 vote to the person below plan.
This is actually something I hadn't even considered. However, we can't "decide" what to do about it now because scum would be likely to exploit it somehow if we decide to do the vote-rotation.
Actually, with this in mind it seems more like a scum-favored decision to rotate the votes predictably.
##Unvote: Palmar
Suddenly the thought of just giving our vote to the most town-seeming individual has merit.
I'm just gonna shut up then.
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On January 27 2012 05:43 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 05:11 layabout wrote:
Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around You have an individual named Palmar that has clearly stated he's above plans. So if we don't have everybody on board what good is the plan? Do we just skip him and let him do what he wants? Thing is this is the arrogant townie Palmar I'm used to seeing. So I have no desire to lynch him. So what plan do we devise that allows us to ignore the cowboy from Iceland.
Perhaps just "ignore the cowboy from Iceland" as a plan? Simplicity in form, effective in design. 
I kid, I kid.
Jackal, are you adverse to discussing the lynch before we hear from everyone? Who are your top 2 candidates right now?
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On January 27 2012 05:49 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 05:43 Jackal58 wrote:On January 27 2012 05:11 layabout wrote:
Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around You have an individual named Palmar that has clearly stated he's above plans. So if we don't have everybody on board what good is the plan? Do we just skip him and let him do what he wants? Thing is this is the arrogant townie Palmar I'm used to seeing. So I have no desire to lynch him. So what plan do we devise that allows us to ignore the cowboy from Iceland. Perhaps just "ignore the cowboy from Iceland" as a plan? Simplicity in form, effective in design. I kid, I kid. Jackal, are you adverse to discussing the lynch before we hear from everyone? Who are your top 2 candidates right now?
Nobody yet really. If I had a gun to my head and had to vote it would be for WBG just for the hilarity.
On January 26 2012 18:45 wherebugsgo wrote:
The only way I'm going to die this game is if I get shot by scum.
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On January 27 2012 05:45 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 05:35 layabout wrote:@ViceraEyes nobody yet. Voting for Palmar now is dumb though, and i don't like that you have done that. The thing is, i think the plan is good but there are drawbacks and we have not fully addressed them. After a few miss-lynches the scum could exploit the "circle vote trading" and win, so if we agree to follow the strategy then we should likely decide how long we shall do it for. At the same time it seems likely that there will be roles that can significantly affect the game and so it may be best to agree on the best plan for now and then adapt it as the game grows older and we gain more information. + Show Spoiler [likely there will be power roles?] +since all of the mechanics we are aware of seem pro-scum it seems probable that there will be pro-town mechanics that we are not aware of. I think we should consider something else: A player that trades votes to a player that gets killed will have their vote refunded. This will mean that for the next night they will have an extra vote to trade or they will keep an extra vote. If there are extra votes we need to consider what players who get them should do with them because the Mafia will essentially have the power to decide who gets the extra vote(s).I support the everyone trades 1 vote to the person below plan. This is actually something I hadn't even considered. However, we can't "decide" what to do about it now because scum would be likely to exploit it somehow if we decide to do the vote-rotation. Actually, with this in mind it seems more like a scum-favored decision to rotate the votes predictably. ##Unvote: PalmarSuddenly the thought of just giving our vote to the most town-seeming individual has merit.I'm just gonna shut up then.
1 vote each? 2 votes each? some give vote and some rotate?
which idea has merit?
If say everyone gave 1 player 2 votes then that player would decide the lynch next day and would then have to give away enough votes for another player to decide the following days lynch. That seems like an extremely risky plan.
If they were given 1 vote then we would have a similar but less dangerous situation.
+ if that player was town and was given or was about to be given lots of votes couldn't the mafia just kill them and ruin everything?
If we agreed to give votes to one player we would not be able to reliable check who had given them to that player and who hadn't. Knowing who is giving votes to who is something that could be valuable and i don't think we should allow mafia to deny us that information.
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Way to flip completely VE... O_o
That one person have 4 votes instead of 3 during day2 and the potential to have 5 votes and everyone else still have 3 on day3 is not something that I find particularly scummy. Even if mafia want to hammer on day3 they can't since they will only have 14 of the 38 votes. If they during the night2 trade differently then we planned they can potentially got to 18 votes day3.
It only gets scummy if someone suggest to continue with the plan - and no one have.
(This assume that 1 townperson dies in possesion of 2 votes each day and night. 4 person and 8 votes total. Also assume that everyone trade 1 vote each night)
Given that there might be power out there to influence votingpower I don't think we should be using the "Everyone trade 1 vote to player below" plan more then night 1. After that option 3) is a much better alternative.
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I'm back.
I'll do exacly as palmar. I'll give my ONE obligatory vote to the person I think is town the most.
The vote system seems to me like a very pro-town mechanic. Having a vote circle completly nullfies that.
Conclusion: Votecircles are dumb
FoS: VE, did you seriously just attempt to lynch palmar day 1.
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On January 27 2012 06:05 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm back.
I'll do exacly as palmar. I'll give my ONE obligatory vote to the person I think is town the most.
The vote system seems to me like a very pro-town mechanic. Having a vote circle completly nullfies that.
Conclusion: Votecircles are dumb
FoS: VE, did you seriously just attempt to lynch palmar day 1.
Yes, because lynching someone I think is scum is scummy. Pull the other one risk. Names don't move me. If he's playing like scum I'm going to vote for his lynch. I removed my vote because the idea of giving his one vote to someone pro-town actually makes more sense than the vote-circle idea, but I think he honestly thinks people should just give them their votes, and I think that's asinine and senseless this early, and it's scummy as sin to me.
Care to tell me why wanting to lynch scum is scummy?
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On January 27 2012 06:05 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm back.
I'll do exacly as palmar. I'll give my ONE obligatory vote to the person I think is town the most.
The vote system seems to me like a very pro-town mechanic. Having a vote circle completly nullfies that.
Conclusion: Votecircles are dumb
FoS: VE, did you seriously just attempt to lynch palmar day 1.
Explain why the vote system is pro-town when mafia can effectively never lose their votes yet town can almost never avoid losing their votes.
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On January 27 2012 06:05 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm back.
I'll do exacly as palmar. I'll give my ONE obligatory vote to the person I think is town the most.
The vote system seems to me like a very pro-town mechanic. Having a vote circle completly nullfies that.
Conclusion: Votecircles are dumb
FoS: VE, did you seriously just attempt to lynch palmar day 1.
I think mafia has potential to take control of voting power. Say for simplicity's sake (this is hypothetical, not accusing anyone) that the first 4 people are all mafia. Let's say they get 3-4 votes from other townies, and then just do their own vote circle. They can slowly accumulate votes in this way and then have the voting power to lynch whoever they want.
First night, we know nothing, anyone willing let's set up a votecircle, that way Palmar and whoever else can get their way and trade to who they think is a townie, and those willing just exchange one vote to each other.
By the end of the day we can post numbers of people willing so you just go down the list.
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Also, Node, LSB and NetStalker have yet to post since this game began. It's fairly early, but I think that should go into consideration.
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These Are Speculations
It's not true when some dude said that all mechanics are town favored, because scum only has 1 KP which is clearly not to their advantage. If we manage to make voting power balance to shift slightly in town direction
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EPT
