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I still think the best plan was along the lines of what I've said. Vote-circles would leave town in the dark. Despite alot of blues because of no-flip.
Free trading was a neccersary informationsource in the start, aswell as beeing a huge pain in the arse for scum to deal with.
Later on town needed to transfer into some sort of safer play where you try to keep the vp balanced out amongst the remaining players to cancel out the power of vp. I originally wanted to nullify vp importance because of the of chance scum through luck, manipulation or playing awesome managed to achive alot of vp. I had no idea of the scum abillitys and I never would had thought they had this many and this powerfull roles as they did, I was shocked. Granted there were alot of blues aswell but the scum abillitys for this game was fucking scary. Both vote steal and vote siphon (bus driver) is just op.
Town might have had alot of townies remaining but as you could see it doesn't stop scum from wrapping the game up.
We won because scum played pretty bad.
LSB spent most of his time making scum-favored vote-circle plans putting him in the spotlight.
Viceraeyes played incredibly suspiciously and then outed both himself and LSB in a panic attack.
Chaoser: A player as good as chaoser not doing anything for several days made him very suspicious.
Jackal made a pretty decent job at blending in but then he claimed medic.
and town had a fair bit of luck.
If scum had tried more to just blend in and look townish for the first days this would probably had been a walkover due to scum power-roles.
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I was very stupid. I should have claimed VT and watched you guys lynch Meatless Taco. If I had done that we would have won. It's nobodies fault but mine. Chaoser and LSB played good games. Visc panicked a bit and tried to save LSB and that was a bad move on his part but the loss is on me. One more lynch and I would have had total control of the votes. 
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On February 05 2012 10:22 Jackal58 wrote:I was very stupid. I should have claimed VT and watched you guys lynch Meatless Taco. If I had done that we would have won. It's nobodies fault but mine. Chaoser and LSB played good games. Visc panicked a bit and tried to save LSB and that was a bad move on his part but the loss is on me. One more lynch and I would have had total control of the votes.
How do you figure? You would need to get them to send you the majority and you wouldn't be able to hold them for more than one lynch.
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On February 05 2012 10:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 10:22 Jackal58 wrote:I was very stupid. I should have claimed VT and watched you guys lynch Meatless Taco. If I had done that we would have won. It's nobodies fault but mine. Chaoser and LSB played good games. Visc panicked a bit and tried to save LSB and that was a bad move on his part but the loss is on me. One more lynch and I would have had total control of the votes. How do you figure? You would need to get them to send you the majority and you wouldn't be able to hold them for more than one lynch.
Meatless -1 vote
Node -6 votes
Steal from the highest vote total holder the next day and lynch him.
Kill the next highest vote holder the next night
Rinse, Repeat.
I had 3 free kills in a row.
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On February 05 2012 09:40 LSB wrote:
Yep, vote circle would have been the best town plan, because of the fact that there were many vote manipulation elements. Of course you guys didn't know it. :D
Nice hits vigs!
-_-
people called me dumb for supporting the fucking vote circle.
While my keyboard died. So I couldn't defend myself when I was getting lynched.
Also holy crap the setup was mafia-favored, but town was lucky that scum messed up a lot and key town players caught onto it. Mafia played in such a way that I had 3 of them caught day 1 (check GM's obs qt lol)
and I'm not that great of a scumhunter
people should have been able tosee that lsb was scum based on the way he flopped about the plan, and the fact that he supported something so mafia favored to begin with.
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On February 05 2012 10:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
people called me dumb for supporting the fucking vote circle.
Everyone was on board ( including scum ) until this
On January 26 2012 17:42 Palmar wrote:
I think everyone should give all their votes to me. Additionally, I think we should hang everyone who opposed having PMs in the game because that's why I originally wanted to play it.
this
On January 26 2012 18:28 prplhz wrote:
Everybody should give away as many votes as they can every day. This is a good idea because it will prevent scum from eliminating voting power through night kills, and voting power will only get eliminated through the lynch which is more likely to hit scum than night kills.
and this
On January 27 2012 01:06 Palmar wrote:
I have no issues with a planned vote-trading system, I'm just not going to follow it.
There was no way it could work after that.
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Lol that policy WBG lynch works everytime
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He said "knowing what roles scum has, the plan was good", you didn't know what roles scum had 
Like Jackal58 said, vote-stealer is imbalanced in late game. Was it 1 scum v 8 townies, and then it's LYLO? That's pretty crazy. Town had no idea that they needed to keep the VP spread out to avoid that scenario.
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On February 05 2012 10:22 Jackal58 wrote:I was very stupid. I should have claimed VT and watched you guys lynch Meatless Taco. If I had done that we would have won. It's nobodies fault but mine. Chaoser and LSB played good games. Visc panicked a bit and tried to save LSB and that was a bad move on his part but the loss is on me. One more lynch and I would have had total control of the votes.
Nah yo, we all played badly. VE's weird votes/unvotes day one were REALLY suspicious. I didn't even know who was on the mafia during my replacement read-through and I caught him on it. Also LSB switching on his plan was really bad. Foolishness/Ver would have easily caught that and owned us in the face with it.
And I should have bussed both of them at the end of day 3 instead of trying to save LSB. I feel like that plus the town thinking layabout was mafia + him giving me four fucking votes pushed me over the edge and made town think I was mafia -_-. I really didn't expect there to be a second vigi either and had there not been, mafia would have won the moment layabout with his 10 votes got voted off. My plan was to destroy as many votes as possible and then using bussing/Jackal's vote buying powers to win the game with control over majority votes. Ah well.
I don't think my none-presence in the game should have been read as "Scummy" though. In responsibility Mafia I barely posted, electing to make big posts at the end of the day and everyone thought I was townie.
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On February 05 2012 11:42 prplhz wrote:He said "knowing what roles scum has, the plan was good", you didn't know what roles scum had Like Jackal58 said, vote-stealer is imbalanced in late game. Was it 1 scum v 8 townies, and then it's LYLO? That's pretty crazy. Town had no idea that they needed to keep the VP spread out to avoid that scenario.
it didn't matter what roles the scum had.
In fact,not knowing them meant you should always go with the more conservative plan, not the one that stacks votes on single people.
I would have guessed there was a votestealing mechanic for scum, or at least something setup related.
EDIT: Also, even knowing that, if scum actually played half decent (no offense guys, you really dropped the ball on this one lol) I can guarantee you that scum would end upwith more votes proportionally than town by day 2.
If I was scum, as I said repeatedly on day 1, I would have played in such a way that I would be guaranteed to receive votes from multiple people the next day. I might even have just mimicked a townie if I thought that would help (and I think it would have)
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On February 05 2012 10:35 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 10:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 05 2012 10:22 Jackal58 wrote:I was very stupid. I should have claimed VT and watched you guys lynch Meatless Taco. If I had done that we would have won. It's nobodies fault but mine. Chaoser and LSB played good games. Visc panicked a bit and tried to save LSB and that was a bad move on his part but the loss is on me. One more lynch and I would have had total control of the votes. How do you figure? You would need to get them to send you the majority and you wouldn't be able to hold them for more than one lynch. Meatless -1 vote Node -6 votes Steal from the highest vote total holder the next day and lynch him. Kill the next highest vote holder the next night Rinse, Repeat. I had 3 free kills in a row.
Ability: Once per game during the day, you may buy the vote of another player. You decide who they vote for that day, by PMing your intent to the Hosts. The votecounter will immediately show the change, and that the vote was manipulated. You may not change the bought vote afterwards, and this ability can not change a lynch that has been decided allready.
How could you do it repeatedly? Your ability was one-shot, or so you said in the quicktopic.
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On February 05 2012 12:17 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 10:35 Jackal58 wrote:On February 05 2012 10:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 05 2012 10:22 Jackal58 wrote:I was very stupid. I should have claimed VT and watched you guys lynch Meatless Taco. If I had done that we would have won. It's nobodies fault but mine. Chaoser and LSB played good games. Visc panicked a bit and tried to save LSB and that was a bad move on his part but the loss is on me. One more lynch and I would have had total control of the votes. How do you figure? You would need to get them to send you the majority and you wouldn't be able to hold them for more than one lynch. Meatless -1 vote Node -6 votes Steal from the highest vote total holder the next day and lynch him. Kill the next highest vote holder the next night Rinse, Repeat. I had 3 free kills in a row. Show nested quote +Ability: Once per game during the day, you may buy the vote of another player. You decide who they vote for that day, by PMing your intent to the Hosts. The votecounter will immediately show the change, and that the vote was manipulated. You may not change the bought vote afterwards, and this ability can not change a lynch that has been decided allready. How could you do it repeatedly? Your ability was one-shot, or so you said in the quicktopic.
I could only steal votes once. If I had killed Node and gave him a vote I would have retained 4. Maybe even collected one more. While eliminating 6 votes. Next day use my votes and steal the highest vote holder and lynch him with his own votes. Eliminates another 3 or 4 votes. Kill the next highest vote holder that night removing another 2 or 3. Vote elimination was about to snowball.
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And that continues my streak of never winning as mafia!
On February 05 2012 12:03 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 11:42 prplhz wrote:He said "knowing what roles scum has, the plan was good", you didn't know what roles scum had Like Jackal58 said, vote-stealer is imbalanced in late game. Was it 1 scum v 8 townies, and then it's LYLO? That's pretty crazy. Town had no idea that they needed to keep the VP spread out to avoid that scenario. it didn't matter what roles the scum had. In fact,not knowing them meant you should always go with the more conservative plan, not the one that stacks votes on single people. I would have guessed there was a votestealing mechanic for scum, or at least something setup related.
Thats the point, no one did, which is why I was able to make my case. Of course if Hammer is hosted again, votecircles would be defaulted to. But since it was Hammer's first game, I took the initiative.
Of course, then we departed from the counterplan, people giving me votes and stuff... if the mafia team was more coordinated I'm sure that we could have a much better night 2.
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On February 05 2012 10:35 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 10:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 05 2012 10:22 Jackal58 wrote:I was very stupid. I should have claimed VT and watched you guys lynch Meatless Taco. If I had done that we would have won. It's nobodies fault but mine. Chaoser and LSB played good games. Visc panicked a bit and tried to save LSB and that was a bad move on his part but the loss is on me. One more lynch and I would have had total control of the votes. How do you figure? You would need to get them to send you the majority and you wouldn't be able to hold them for more than one lynch. Meatless -1 vote Node -6 votes Steal from the highest vote total holder the next day and lynch him. Kill the next highest vote holder the next night Rinse, Repeat. I had 3 free kills in a row.
Node would have traded votes away, you aren't guaranteed to be able to eliminate that many votes every night. Also, there was a medic still alive.
I don't think the vote circle is the best plan even knowing what roles are present in the game. Town has two vigs, so scum won't be able to control votes early and if town keeps trading all their votes every night, scum can only eliminate 1 vote every night.
WBG's "lol just play like a townie" to get votes is amazing advice.
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On February 05 2012 10:35 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 10:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 05 2012 10:22 Jackal58 wrote:I was very stupid. I should have claimed VT and watched you guys lynch Meatless Taco. If I had done that we would have won. It's nobodies fault but mine. Chaoser and LSB played good games. Visc panicked a bit and tried to save LSB and that was a bad move on his part but the loss is on me. One more lynch and I would have had total control of the votes. How do you figure? You would need to get them to send you the majority and you wouldn't be able to hold them for more than one lynch. Meatless -1 vote Node -6 votes Steal from the highest vote total holder the next day and lynch him. Kill the next highest vote holder the next night Rinse, Repeat. I had 3 free kills in a row.
I assume you are referring to Node being killed and that is why he is -6. But look at the game set up. The actions go give votes --> hits --- > receive votes. You can't kill away votes like that. You would have to kill both the sender and the receiver for votes to disappear during the night. Or at least whatever votes node didn't send.
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On February 05 2012 12:03 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 11:42 prplhz wrote:He said "knowing what roles scum has, the plan was good", you didn't know what roles scum had Like Jackal58 said, vote-stealer is imbalanced in late game. Was it 1 scum v 8 townies, and then it's LYLO? That's pretty crazy. Town had no idea that they needed to keep the VP spread out to avoid that scenario. it didn't matter what roles the scum had. In fact,not knowing them meant you should always go with the more conservative plan, not the one that stacks votes on single people. I would have guessed there was a votestealing mechanic for scum, or at least something setup related. EDIT: Also, even knowing that, if scum actually played half decent (no offense guys, you really dropped the ball on this one lol) I can guarantee you that scum would end upwith more votes proportionally than town by day 2. If I was scum, as I said repeatedly on day 1, I would have played in such a way that I would be guaranteed to receive votes from multiple people the next day. I might even have just mimicked a townie if I thought that would help (and I think it would have)
I would say that any player who is accumulating votes but isn't overtly town is worth killing. In this sense I think the mafia had to be very active and look town to justify having high votes and not being killed. You guys instead chose to just not go for votes early on because none of you had the town cred to get away with the above move, which is better than giving each other votes when you are under suspicion, but it is definitely not gaming the system to your teams advantage.
For example, at the start of day 2 I think the mafia controlled 10 total votes, meaning you collectively lost two votes.
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EPT
