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On February 04 2012 18:33 Forumite wrote:"That´s big..."
"Of course it is, we´re builders, we don´t deal with tiny things."
"Do you think we can make that thing?"
"Sure, the tower is the easy part, getting to Tau Ceti will tougher."
Jackal58 - Votemanipulator (Day 4 votesteal)
Chaoser - Busdriver
LSB - Roleblocker
VisceraEyes - Gravedigger
PaperScraps - Gravedigger
jaybrundage - Tracker
Node - Vigilante (1-shot, reveals alignment)
Dirkzor - Vigilante (1-shot, reveals alignment)
Palmar - Watcher
Prplhz - Medic
MeatlessTaco - Vanilla Townie
LayAbout - Vanilla Townie
Wherebugsgo - Vanilla Townie
risk.nuke - Vanilla Townie
[UoN]Sentinel - Vanilla Townie
Thanks to RoL for hosting, Zona for zbot, and thanks to everyone else for playing.
#1 cohost of ALL time. What did you guys think? I wouldn't mind hearing some post game thoughts/opinions. The only change I made since I designed this game roughly 6 months ago was changing vigilantes to flip alignment. The reason is because I thought the set up was a bit mafia favored as well as a few others mentioned it. I didn't except the vigi's to kill quite as well as they did.
Fun fact: The mafia nearly won the game N2 when you were all sending votes to palmar. They came incredibly close to busdriving LSB/Palmar so LSB would get all the votes, then using the vote rigger to force the highest town VP player to kill himself. At that point the mafia controls the lynch and wins the game. They didn't know, but this also would of killed Palmar and saved LSB since there was vigilantes targeting LSB who would of killed palmar instead. What they did instead was bus Palmar with someone else and hit the someone else to pass the protections from palmar. If I remember right, I think it was LayAbout who they hit and bussed to kill Palmar.
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On February 04 2012 22:05 layabout wrote:
Why did VE claim a hit?
It's really bugging me.
He did it to save LSB, it was really stupid. On top of which, he never even used his gravedigger power that day so the scum had no idea what WBG role was before VE died.
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On February 04 2012 22:50 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 22:20 prplhz wrote:Really ballsy and awesome shots by Node and Dirkzor. Shooting the only scum with any real town influence, really nice. Haha those breadcrumbs Paperscraps. I doubt anyone found those  The only grave VisceraEyes digged was his own? AMIRITE??? + Show Spoiler +Anyway, VisceraEyes throwing himself under a bus like that was a pretty bad move. He not only incriminated himself but also LSB. I don't know what you guys were thinking. I don't think scum played bad, but town had some crazy awesome powerplay and VisceraEyes gave himself up as did Jackal58. I can see where Jackal58 was coming from with his claim but I think he should just have relaxed and hoped town would have lynched somebody else. I am never claiming shit as scum again. Every time I try to I die. 
hehe, it might of worked if you were right about paperscraps being the medic. Unfortunately he wasn't so you were insta CC'd.
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I think the setup was very fun and interesting RoL. At the same time I think it's the most mafia-favored game I've ever played in.
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With a mafia lynch on day 2, 2 correct vigilante shots, a medic save and only 2 mislynches, town almost lost. Even in a flip game that shouldn't even be a close game.
In a normal game mafia needs to dodge the lynch on days 1-2. It's on day 3 where things can start breaking up for them. However by day 3, half the scum team was dead, and one of their hits had been blocked. This should be a tremendous advantage to town, especially with the other one-shot vigilante hitting scum on night three (despite a day 3 mislynch).
At the start of day 4 these things worked for town:
Medic save night 1
Mafia lynch day 2
Mafia shot night 2
Mafia shot night 3
These were working for mafia:
mislynch day 1 (should be a given)
mislynch day 3 (game mechanics forced this on).
The fact that the game came even close after this shows how mafia favored the setup was. It is not normal to get a medic save correct in the first night. It is not normal either for 2 vigis to shoot correctly by day 4. It is however normal to lynch 1 scum before day 4.
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GG guys
Layabout I'm sorry for riding your ass the whole game, looks like were on the same boat after all.
And honestly, I think that with space for 1-3 more townies, 16-18 player size, we'd be a lot better off, saving us from mislynching, maybe more opportunites for blue roles or something. IDK.
But this game was pretty fun, lots of great twists through the thread and RoL if you host another game with a setup like this, I'll definitely come back.
One question tho - what does gravedigger do?
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On February 05 2012 02:34 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
GG guys
Layabout I'm sorry for riding your ass the whole game, looks like were on the same boat after all.
And honestly, I think that with space for 1-3 more townies, 16-18 player size, we'd be a lot better off, saving us from mislynching, maybe more opportunites for blue roles or something. IDK.
But this game was pretty fun, lots of great twists through the thread and RoL if you host another game with a setup like this, I'll definitely come back.
One question tho - what does gravedigger do?
I wish you had ridden my ass because then there would have been something for me to criticise.
As it was people just called me scum, didn't say why. I explained my actions and asked why i was scummy,i got no reasons, i got a bit annoyed, mafia gave me votes and i was lynched before i could post.
Well played town blues.
+ Show Spoiler [my awful reads] +
day1
Towniest:
LSB
risk.nuke
Palmar
WBG
vicera eyes
Dirkzor
Nulliest:
chaoser
prplhz
jackal
jaybrundage
node
Paperscraps
Scummiest:
Metaless taco
sentinel
day 2
dead:
WBG
Towniest:
LSB
risk.nuke
Dirkzor
Paperscraps
chaoser
prplhz
Nulliest:
node
jackal
jaybrundage
Metaless taco
sentinel
Scummiest:
Palmar or vicera eyes
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Layabout did you give you votes to chaoser? Because if you did you are just as responsible for me shooting him as I am =) That was the major tipping point for me. I mean chaoser wasn't really making any towny moves but when you send him votes I was sure he was scum. It was only later I thought about mafia might have tried to frame you...
On February 04 2012 19:35 Palmar wrote:gg guys, well played by most of town, especially impressed with paperscraps and dirkzor. Node MVP 
aaaaw.. I get all giddy =)
I guess no one was bussed night 1?
The setup was really fun. The best game I've played so far (of my wast number of mafia games (3)). Looking back at it the scum was maybe a bit favored. I mean if at any point they are just close to getting majority they can shot the guy with most votes and win.
Night 2 i was really close to shooting layabout. But the whole mess with VE got me to shoot LSB, but being the slowpoke i am was beat to it by node. However I don't think shooting layabout had been so bad? Considering he was a main suspect anyway and it might have cleared some stuff up...
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I actually thought it was pretty obvious that I was the medic since I was going around calling Palmar confirmed town and I gave him 5 votes. Paperscraps didn't give Palmar a single vote at any point even though he would know that Palmar is town and Palmar is pretty good at this game and wouldn't do anything silly with his vote.
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On February 05 2012 04:15 prplhz wrote:
I actually thought it was pretty obvious that I was the medic since I was going around calling Palmar confirmed town and I gave him 5 votes. Paperscraps didn't give Palmar a single vote at any point even though he would know that Palmar is town and Palmar is pretty good at this game and wouldn't do anything silly with his vote.
Pfffftttt. I knew who all the townies were on day 1.
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I don´t think there was an observer QT, didn´t make one myself at least. Jackal posted the mafia QT allready.
I´m impressed with Town, no flip didn´t hold them back.
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GG thanks for hosting RoL and Forumite. It was hella fun. First no flip i ever played. I will REALLY appreciate flips a heck of alot more as town. Its information you take for granted
Well played scum. Well played town too. Jackal58 I really thought you were town D:
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On February 05 2012 07:39 Forumite wrote:
I don´t think there was an observer QT, didn´t make one myself at least. Jackal posted the mafia QT allready.
I´m impressed with Town, no flip didn´t hold them back.
GMarshall made the Obs QT I think:
http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/yDHVh5XNNdQ
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On February 05 2012 01:07 Palmar wrote:
I think the setup was very fun and interesting RoL. At the same time I think it's the most mafia-favored game I've ever played in.
You guys won with like 8 town left or something? The problem was that the mafia only had 1 KP, I couldn't give you much more players or it would be like an 8 game day mafia win just to kill all of you. I don't think the ending was as close as you are saying. The mafia ALMOST had a chance by bussing you, but that was purely due to game mechanics and the town recklessly giving you their votes which was meant to be punishable. There still was kind of a way to stop that, but it would of been hard as town and probably near impossible once mafia held the majority of votes.
But that was the point. To control voting power, if the town didn't think the mafia would have some way to affect voting then that's their fault. My only issue hosting was that I was too open about information like when you asked about roleblocking, or someone else asked about medic protection. The answer should of been "That would depend if the role exists and what limitations it would have." Instead of the correct answers which I gave which essentially confirmed the roles existing in the game.
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Don't get me wrong though Palmar, I think it was a bit mafia favored and the town just totally cleaned shit up this game. The mafia team was even pretty good, especially after NetStalker was subbed out. Chaoser/Jackal/VE/LSB? And you guys still wrecked them.
One thing I think mafia could of done more of is use bus driving by hitting one of their own and bussing the hit to palmar, etc. Basically protecting their own while killing someone who couldn't be killed before hand. This is opposed to what they were doing such as bussing LayAbout/Palmar and hitting LayAbout to kill Palmar. Instead bus LSB/Palmar and kill LSB to kill Palmar.
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I still think a vote circle would've been the best plan, especially now that we know how the mafia can manipulate votes.
I'm glad you guys outted Jackal, I've been super-busy the past few days. I still enjoyed playing this a lot, and I'm glad I helped town win for once. ^^
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It seems like a very high variance setup due to the vote trading, bus driver and how integral the vigs are for town. I suppose townies should trade ALL of their extra votes every night to ensure votes aren't lost, but this can obviously backfire. It doesn't matter if town has numerical advantage when the setup is all about the votes. I expected there to be a mafia role that affects votes, but they had two very strong ones and neither of which you can really prepare for.
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On February 05 2012 08:56 Node wrote:I still think a vote circle would've been the best plan, especially now that we know how the mafia can manipulate votes. I'm glad you guys outted Jackal, I've been super-busy the past few days. I still enjoyed playing this a lot, and I'm glad I helped town win for once. ^^
Bus driver can mess with that too and once mafia reaches certain point they can just not trade as planned and bus drive even some extra votes to themselves. What would town had done on day 2 if the trading didn't go as planned due to bus driver?
Were the people who were bus driven informed?
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No, bus driven was not informed. Might of been a decent idea to include that, although it starts ruining the whole dark set up idea.
Bus driving votes if people followed a voting circle wouldn't really work except to implicate people, since essentially if everyone is giving two votes to someone else you just switch who gave votes to who, but you could try to use that information to make it appear like certain players weren't following the voting regulations for whatever reason. I am thinking the lobbyest might of been too strong, or maybe instead of a bus driver or lobbyist make a role that allows you to control where someone sends their votes and possibly how many they send, but the second part might be too strong.
Who knows, maybe I will host a second Hammer this summer and use some of the other ideas I was working with.
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Yep, vote circle would have been the best town plan, because of the fact that there were many vote manipulation elements. Of course you guys didn't know it. :D
Nice hits vigs!
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