EPTteam kitaredff your vote is still on gm right? you still keep that vote on him?
Team Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy - Page 15
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
team kitaredff your vote is still on gm right? you still keep that vote on him? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 03 2011 23:31 supersoft wrote: team kitaredff your vote is still on gm right? you still keep that vote on him? I'm open to other suggestions, but Team Viking is not one of them at the moment. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
as townie in xlv he confused me, as scum in pypi he annoyed me - now i know him so i wouldnt be confused but pleased if he'd annoy the scummers. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
Kurufesto It's good to be back, guys. + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2011 07:45 GMarshal wrote: Cool, a game of mafia ![[image loading]](http://images2.layoutsparks.com/1/186616/face-the-reaper-skull-31000.jpg) It's traditional at this point to post a picture of the reaper So, Iets do this thing. First thing first As usual there is no excuse for lurking, don't do it and you won't have me lobbing for your lynch. Seriously, 2 players per team should mean a more than decent level of activity, you aren't going to get away with 2~3 posts per cycle unless they are an outstanding, wall of text, analytical set of three posts. So post, transparency and information means we have a greater chance of success. Second thing (this should *not* be a point of discussion, as what I am about to talk about is too general for us to really talk about, I just wanted to make sure it was said). Because there are no vigilantes, if we have a jailkeeper he should be using his protect/roleblock offensively, that is "protecting" scum in an attempt to roleblock the kill, rather than going after the most outspoken townies and possibly roleblocking a power role. This style should encourage activity (scum no longer want to risk being lurkers if it might make their kill fail) and with the possibility of a medic in play scum still cannot afford to shoot the top players. Other than that there isn't that much to say on the setup until we get later in the day and can talk about dt lists and such. My lurker policy remains the same as always, and yeah, that's about it. I am against lynching lurkers. First, the setup is really small, so we should delay the game and make it as long as we could. Scum, unless terrible or really overloaded with RL stuff (they shouldn't join game then, but hey it happens) won't lurk. Remember, scum are those MIDDLE guys, not so active or inactive to draw attention. "But it sounds so cool Kurumi... go get them Yourself, let me derp my way to LYLO" Yeah I know Towns on TL are quite damn lazy and with all the info coming out at the beginning of the game, quoting guides by either side and stuff like that and forget all of it after D1 lynch but.. I am not going to forget, I wish to play my best this game. "But Kurumi, Mafia has a Role Cop!" With 1 blue, they will have hard time finding Team with it. With 2 blues, we will get enough protection/information to retaliate strong enough. Remember, the more time Parity Cop gets, the stronger we are, because he can slowly confirm people. I think we shouldn't worry about Mafia Role Cop too much. Lurker lynch is a bad idea. We either no-lynch or lynch the scummiest fuckers out there. With a mislynch, Mafia ALREADY got their KP per cycle! If we don't get a good protect/block or we just don't have roles for it, 2 people are dead by Day 2. Meanwhile, Mafia Role Cop has checked one of the roles. That means, 3 out of 7 people roles are known to Mafia, another lynch and it's 4 out of 5, if the (only one) blue survived to this time, he will be killed during the night, no matter the lynch result. Summary: Lurker lynch is a terrible idea, Mafia rarely lurk without any special plan. No lynch does not put us behind: Our blue will survive longer this way. Lynch = scummiest person, remember! Try to keep Your post readable... I am trying, so You should too. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 04 2011 02:31 Kurumi wrote: Kurufesto It's good to be back, guys. + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2011 07:45 GMarshal wrote: Cool, a game of mafia It's traditional at this point to post a picture of the reaper So, Iets do this thing. First thing first As usual there is no excuse for lurking, don't do it and you won't have me lobbing for your lynch. Seriously, 2 players per team should mean a more than decent level of activity, you aren't going to get away with 2~3 posts per cycle unless they are an outstanding, wall of text, analytical set of three posts. So post, transparency and information means we have a greater chance of success. Second thing (this should *not* be a point of discussion, as what I am about to talk about is too general for us to really talk about, I just wanted to make sure it was said). Because there are no vigilantes, if we have a jailkeeper he should be using his protect/roleblock offensively, that is "protecting" scum in an attempt to roleblock the kill, rather than going after the most outspoken townies and possibly roleblocking a power role. This style should encourage activity (scum no longer want to risk being lurkers if it might make their kill fail) and with the possibility of a medic in play scum still cannot afford to shoot the top players. Other than that there isn't that much to say on the setup until we get later in the day and can talk about dt lists and such. My lurker policy remains the same as always, and yeah, that's about it. I am against lynching lurkers. First, the setup is really small, so we should delay the game and make it as long as we could. Scum, unless terrible or really overloaded with RL stuff (they shouldn't join game then, but hey it happens) won't lurk. Remember, scum are those MIDDLE guys, not so active or inactive to draw attention. "But it sounds so cool Kurumi... go get them Yourself, let me derp my way to LYLO" Yeah I know Towns on TL are quite damn lazy and with all the info coming out at the beginning of the game, quoting guides by either side and stuff like that and forget all of it after D1 lynch but.. I am not going to forget, I wish to play my best this game. "But Kurumi, Mafia has a Role Cop!" With 1 blue, they will have hard time finding Team with it. With 2 blues, we will get enough protection/information to retaliate strong enough. Remember, the more time Parity Cop gets, the stronger we are, because he can slowly confirm people. I think we shouldn't worry about Mafia Role Cop too much. Lurker lynch is a bad idea. We either no-lynch or lynch the scummiest fuckers out there. With a mislynch, Mafia ALREADY got their KP per cycle! If we don't get a good protect/block or we just don't have roles for it, 2 people are dead by Day 2. Meanwhile, Mafia Role Cop has checked one of the roles. That means, 3 out of 7 people roles are known to Mafia, another lynch and it's 4 out of 5, if the (only one) blue survived to this time, he will be killed during the night, no matter the lynch result. Summary: Lurker lynch is a terrible idea, Mafia rarely lurk without any special plan. No lynch does not put us behind: Our blue will survive longer this way. Lynch = scummiest person, remember! Try to keep Your post readable... I am trying, so You should too. No lynching day 1 is so anti-town I don't have words for it. Truly this is a Kurumi plan. Lets break this down, what is the probability of us hitting mafia if we no lynch? Oh, right! 0%, so Kurumi, you are advocating giving the mafia a free night. With no information gained about anyone's alignment/ties as usually happens when we have a contested lynch. Also why are you assuming we have a parity cop? Its perfectly possible that we don't, like say maybe we have a medic and that's it. No-lynching is only an alternative when a clear townie is going to be lynched by a stupid bandwagon, otherwise we should be making every effort to make sure we lynch. Remember one no-lynch just turns lylo into mylo, which means that if we give up one lynch we have to give up a second one to prolong the game. And scum lurk all the time, just look at nisani and dropbear in XLVI, which you hosted. Lurker lynch is great if there is no better alternative. I agree that its better to lynch scummy people than lurkers, but your suggestion of no-lynching to "prolong the game" is retarded. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
@sandroba, you promised some thoughts on the setup half way through the day, would be nice if you posted it soon. @iGrok, you promised to blow everything open day1 or night1, I'd love if you did it tonight. SS, CHEZINU, NIPPLE, and SWITZERLAND, you all need to start posting a more. @supersoft I have a lot of stuff with no content? Would you mind showing that to me? It seems like you're just repeating what a lot of other people have said and is trying to make friends. I know you tried to do this in PYP:I too with Erandorr, this is how you play as scum. On November 03 2011 20:06 supersoft wrote: to be fair i dont think chaoser is lazy scum who doesnt want to fake logs. i think he wants to play mafia by analyzing and discussing instead of abusing the mechanics of an online mafiagame. he made that pretty clear. chaoser disagrees with a plan that YOU proposed, I ask him why he doesn't want more content in the thread and then you start defending him saying that it is an abusive plan. I don't think you read the post that you quoted, because then you would see that I am agreeing on it being abusive, my point is that it is pro-town so why wouldn't he want to implement it? Let the host decide what's abusive and what isn't, until then we should take what we can get. It looks to me like you're trying to make friends. On November 03 2011 23:20 supersoft wrote: yes okay. you're right in general. i was more focussed on this individial case with prplhz and i didnt get the feeling that he did that on purpose. that doesnt mean i think he's protown in general. i am going to filter our viking team now and after that i'll reread chaosers partner hyshes. i wann compare his play in this game to his play in snmm. lets what we can get. This is another instance of you trying to make friends and not reading the thread, this time with me. Before this post I had clearly stated that I derp'd on purpose, now you are saying that it doesn't look like I'm doing it on purpose. It looks to me like you're not reading the thread, and that you're just trying to make friends with people. This is scummy, town doesn't want to make friends with anybody, they want to establish their innocence and you don't do that by going around being nice to everybody all the time. You accuse me of posting a lot of stuff with no content, would you care to point out where I did that? Would you care to point out where you posted anything that wasn't making friends or proposing plans that you don't even agree with yourself? And your "lynch wherebugsgo because he's not playing like he did in our last game" is pretty terrible, his play can change, look at how his play is now. Is it scummy? Then why do you want to lynch him? | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 04 2011 02:49 Kurumi wrote: Lurker lynching is often an excuse not to lynch someone, just add "I dunno, he doesn't seem so scummy to me" and voila, You've got Your lurker lynch. Giving You no information about people who voted on the lurker (and we probably won't have this problem) and giving You a green flip. Day 1 lurker lynch is.. worse than a no-lynch, because we will hit town on 99% of basis. No we won't. Also, as long as we make people justify their votes we still get more information than a no lynch. I already agreed with you, thought, its better to lynch scummy people. What is not acceptable is no lynching. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Is anybody scummy enough yet that we should be lynching today? Or is nobody scummy enough yet that we should not be lynching today? | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
RebirthOfLegend's team mini game was an entirely different game where the setup itself made mentor/newbie teams. You lurked hardcore through that game and ended up getting lynched as DT, leading to a perfect mafia victory. I don't get why you are trying to shut discussion down. Nobody is lynching hyshes yet, but his plan did look like it was conceived by a mafia mind. Then you bring out an explanation about why plans are usually posted in the thread, covering a lot of scenarios that clearly do not apply, and missing the scenario that did apply. hyshes didn't try to draw out mafia by intentionally posting a bad plan and I don't think that hyshes seems like he is bad at thinking up plans. hyshes made his post, knowing that the plan could not be implemented just to appear clever. Mafia will have an interest in appearing to be good or potentially good for town, without actually contributing. This is what hyshes did and this is a scenario that your sharp mind did not cover in your plan analysis for some reason.[quote] First of all, that game was only a mafia win because Aidnai decided to WIFOM himself into voting with someone THAT WASN'T EVEN THERE TO DEFEND HIMSELF. [QUOTE]On January 11 2011 18:06 Ace wrote: kudos to Nemesis and chaoser for being clutch and not thinking like idiots. Also for future reference of why I believed Subversion had to be Scum: [QUOTE]On January 10 2011 07:34 Ace wrote: I'll believe Nemesis over an absent player. [/QUOTE] Why would you side with someone that isn't even defending himself? [QUOTE]On January 10 2011 11:52 Ace wrote: Sometimes it's just better to think of a simple answer. You have no idea what the Mafia know and don't know their motives. Hence it's just a simple decision on who is more believable here. [/QUOTE] Stop WIFOMing yourself. This was a really simple decision but you got caught up in stuff that really made no sense. Trying to find out who is the other Scum before getting on with the current lynch was a bad idea. [/QUOTE] Secondly how am I trying to shut down discussion? I said the "post your team convo lawl plan" was bullshit and not playing to the spirit of the game and that I wouldn't stand for it. Palmer decided he agreed and added in the new rule, I then said that a mafia mind doesn't generally think up stupid shitty plans. Go read any number of games but especially LoTR's opening days where tons of shitty plans came forward and all of them were by townies. Dumb play/=Mafia. Where in any of the things that I just said does "HE IS SHUTTING DOWN DISCUSSION!" come into play? I'm actually ADDING to discussion by pointing out my opinions. [quote]Then you bring out an explanation about why plans are usually posted in the thread, covering a lot of scenarios that clearly do not apply, and missing the scenario that did apply. hyshes didn't try to draw out mafia by intentionally posting a bad plan and I don't think that hyshes seems like he is bad at thinking up plans. hyshes made his post, knowing that the plan could not be implemented just to appear clever.[/quote] Thanks for summarizing my stance and posting nothing here. Also, are you trying to say that you know what hyshes' motive are in posting that? I didn't realize you were psychic. How do you know for a fact that hyshe wasn't trying to draw mafia out? How do you know he's NOT bad at making plans? How do you know what he was thinking when he posted that plan? Have you played with him before? Are you talking to him in PMs? Oh right, you're not and you've never played a game with him. What shitty logic. [/QUOTE] | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
i fear for you when RoL sees that post kurumi. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On November 03 2011 19:04 prplhz wrote: RebirthOfLegend's team mini game was an entirely different game where the setup itself made mentor/newbie teams. You lurked hardcore through that game and ended up getting lynched as DT, leading to a perfect mafia victory. I don't get why you are trying to shut discussion down. Nobody is lynching hyshes yet, but his plan did look like it was conceived by a mafia mind. Then you bring out an explanation about why plans are usually posted in the thread, covering a lot of scenarios that clearly do not apply, and missing the scenario that did apply. hyshes didn't try to draw out mafia by intentionally posting a bad plan and I don't think that hyshes seems like he is bad at thinking up plans. hyshes made his post, knowing that the plan could not be implemented just to appear clever. Mafia will have an interest in appearing to be good or potentially good for town, without actually contributing. This is what hyshes did and this is a scenario that your sharp mind did not cover in your plan analysis for some reason. First of all, that game was only a mafia win because Aidnai decided to WIFOM himself into voting with someone THAT WASN'T EVEN THERE TO DEFEND HIMSELF. On January 11 2011 18:06 Ace wrote: kudos to Nemesis and chaoser for being clutch and not thinking like idiots. Also for future reference of why I believed Subversion had to be Scum: Why would you side with someone that isn't even defending himself? Stop WIFOMing yourself. This was a really simple decision but you got caught up in stuff that really made no sense. Trying to find out who is the other Scum before getting on with the current lynch was a bad idea. Secondly how am I trying to shut down discussion? I said the "post your team convo lawl plan" was bullshit and not playing to the spirit of the game and that I wouldn't stand for it. Palmer decided he agreed and added in the new rule, I then said that a mafia mind doesn't generally think up stupid shitty plans. Go read any number of games but especially LoTR's opening days where tons of shitty plans came forward and all of them were by townies. Dumb play/=Mafia. Where in any of the things that I just said does "HE IS SHUTTING DOWN DISCUSSION!" come into play? I'm actually ADDING to discussion by pointing out my opinions. Then you bring out an explanation about why plans are usually posted in the thread, covering a lot of scenarios that clearly do not apply, and missing the scenario that did apply. hyshes didn't try to draw out mafia by intentionally posting a bad plan and I don't think that hyshes seems like he is bad at thinking up plans. hyshes made his post, knowing that the plan could not be implemented just to appear clever. Thanks for summarizing my stance and posting nothing here. Also, are you trying to say that you know what hyshes' motive are in posting that? I didn't realize you were psychic. How do you know for a fact that hyshe wasn't trying to draw mafia out? How do you know he's NOT bad at making plans? How do you know what he was thinking when he posted that plan? Have you played with him before? Are you talking to him in PMs? Oh right, you're not and you've never played a game with him. What shitty logic. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
He posted his motives. On November 03 2011 09:06 hyshes wrote: actually i thought it would be received by cheers because of my insight in this team-game set up.. This is genuine the best way to play this kind of mafia. He wanted to get hailed as a genius and receied by cheers by posting a plan that could not be implemented. Why would he do that? I think he's not that bad at making plans on a pretty shabby foundation, because I'm not good at making plans and because I think the plan was clever (I'd never think of half of everybody not looking at their PMs to ensure that people play like townies) even though it was not thought through or anything. Why would a townie try to post a non-committal plan, to have people consider him a good player and then just leave? Why would a townie post a bad plan to get people's reaction and then not follow up on it at all? He defended his plan and then he left. I'm curious about any follow up that might come from you or him. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
Now, for what I said I would post about the setup: Kurumi has said it already. My sugestion is that we no lynch today and save a no lynch for later to prolong this game. This setup has a high chance of benefiting town and generating a lot of info the longer it goes. For people saying "if we don't lynch we have no chance of hitting scum". Sure, but whoever you thought is scummy isn't going to dissapear or if he does that's one saved mislynch. We are basically trading 2 nights of possible info for 1 shot in the dark day1. If someone here can say they are confident someone else is scum and prove it to us, I'm all for lynching. But despite having my suspicions I'm not willing to make this trade based on the odds I think I'm getting. I'd rather wait and no lynch today. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
@chaoser I don't see the relevance of any of this stuff you posted regarding another game, but ok. I'm not convinced your team is scum just yet. I think hyshes would be way more careful and consult with chaoser before posting that were he scum. He is a new player and that is what new players who roll scum do: they ask for advice before posting. The post was to prp because of his shitty recounting of what happened in RoL's team mafia game. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 04 2011 03:27 sandroba wrote: @chaoser I don't see the relevance of any of this stuff you posted regarding another game, but ok. I'm not convinced your team is scum just yet. I think hyshes would be way more careful and consult with chaoser before posting that were he scum. He is a new player and that is what new players who roll scum do: they ask for advice before posting. Now, for what I said I would post about the setup: Kurumi has said it already. My sugestion is that we no lynch today and save a no lynch for later to prolong this game. This setup has a high chance of benefiting town and generating a lot of info the longer it goes. For people saying "if we don't lynch we have no chance of hitting scum". Sure, but whoever you thought is scummy isn't going to dissapear or if he does that's one saved mislynch. We are basically trading 2 nights of possible info for 1 shot in the dark day1. If someone here can say they are confident someone else is scum and prove it to us, I'm all for lynching. But despite having my suspicions I'm not willing to make this trade based on the odds I think I'm getting. I'd rather wait and no lynch today. I expected better from you sandroba. Why is the day 1 lynch invaluable? Because even if it doesn't hit scum it provides valuable information. It shows us who pushed for what, who defended, who attacked, what bandwagons formed. This "oh lets not lynch" and "let's be hesitant" is not only giving scum a free night with no guaranteed benefit its also ensuring we get to replay the derpfest that is day 1 on day 2, but down a town player. There is no guarantee that there is a dt, even if there is, he might get sniped, or get useless results. Delaying like this is super anti-town, and you should know better sandroba. This idea coming from you makes me really suspicious of your motivations. You know how valuable even a single flip is, what you are advocating is basically turning this game into a n0 start, which favors scum. I for one am going to do everything in my power to ensure a lynch goes through today, and anyone who is advocating a no-lynch is not just playing poorly, but playing anti-town. Lets say we listen to you now sandroba, and all decide to no lynch. How is scum going to be pressured if they know that they have 72 hours before they even have to worry about dying? What constructive discussion are we going to have if we have to start discussing day 2 lynches now because we are afraid to kill a townie day 1. I'm shocked and appalled that you are supporting this idea. Huge FoS, I can understand Kurumi pushing this anti-town idiocy, but sandroba? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 04 2011 02:43 GMarshal wrote: Truly this is a Kurumi plan. On November 04 2011 02:43 GMarshal wrote: your suggestion of no-lynching to "prolong the game" is retarded. On November 04 2011 03:40 GMarshal wrote: I can understand Kurumi pushing this anti-town idiocy Since when does town GM bully people around like this? | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 04 2011 03:44 kitaman27 wrote: Since when does town GM bully people around like this? Only when people suggest *really* stupid stuff. Also, its not bullying, notice I'm attacking the idea, not the person. The idea is idiotic, I will stand by that. No lynching day1 is super detrimental to the town. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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