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On August 22 2011 23:15 Palmar wrote:So, here's the thing I don't understand chaos13: First off, after re-reading everything you've posted I find it hard to believe you are scum because of this little thing here, from the post where you originally voted for me: Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 10:14 chaos13 wrote:
The bolded is probably the scummiest thing about DB at the moment. You say that as if Palmar is confirmed town "I hope you didn't land vigi..."
Any explanation for this?
You see, I don't see why any mafia would ever point this out, because it basically is giving credit to someone who is controversial. Sure, you may not have followed through and voted on me anyway, but it's still something to consider. Some people might actually believe you and consider this a scumslip by DB, and by extension a confirmation of myself. Thing is there are some things in your posting that make absolutely no sense though. Like are you seriously posting shit like this? Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:39 chaos13 wrote:On August 22 2011 03:35 Palmar wrote:
im just going to pretend ve doesnt exist, he's town anyway. I point out your scumminess and suddenly I'm scum, and apparently should be vigi hit. Viscera points out your scumminess and he's town. HMMMMMMM and this (anyone who has ever played with VE, knows why this post is super-scummy) Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:36 chaos13 wrote:On August 22 2011 03:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hiro:
Palmar isn't raging. He's trying to manipulate town with an appeal to emotion. I'm surprised he's even trying, it's one of the most obvious scum-tells there is. Regarding Rayzor, if he was a good enough target to risk a no-lynch today with your ill-fated vote-switch, what has changed in your opinion that makes him not-so tomorrow?
Palmar:
You're better than this. Your play has NOT been good, you haven't provided ANYTHING aside from your weak case against DB, and admittedly I haven't read your case against BB yet (I'm working on it). The fact that you're using that as a reason to rage when everyone here knows you're better than that makes me very suspicious. Finally somebody smart gets in here. I can't believe people let Palmar away so easily. Let's assume for a second you don't think I am scum, and in turn I'll think for a second you might be town aligned. What would you think about lynching BrownBear. I will give my thoughts on your lynch target of choice after I've done re-reading his posts.
Hey Palmar could you pretend for one second that I exist and answer my question ? :D
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On August 22 2011 23:22 supersoft wrote:
Why don't you share your thoughts on the Rayzorlight thing. Do you believe, that he's town
I was the first to point the finger at Rayzor, feel free to filter my posts and re-read my arguments against him.
On August 22 2011 23:22 supersoft wrote:
and everyone was just randomly afk at the deciding point of time?
Most of us were active at the deciding point of time.
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On August 22 2011 23:29 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 23:15 Palmar wrote:So, here's the thing I don't understand chaos13: First off, after re-reading everything you've posted I find it hard to believe you are scum because of this little thing here, from the post where you originally voted for me: On August 20 2011 10:14 chaos13 wrote:
The bolded is probably the scummiest thing about DB at the moment. You say that as if Palmar is confirmed town "I hope you didn't land vigi..."
Any explanation for this?
You see, I don't see why any mafia would ever point this out, because it basically is giving credit to someone who is controversial. Sure, you may not have followed through and voted on me anyway, but it's still something to consider. Some people might actually believe you and consider this a scumslip by DB, and by extension a confirmation of myself. Thing is there are some things in your posting that make absolutely no sense though. Like are you seriously posting shit like this? On August 22 2011 03:39 chaos13 wrote:On August 22 2011 03:35 Palmar wrote:
im just going to pretend ve doesnt exist, he's town anyway. I point out your scumminess and suddenly I'm scum, and apparently should be vigi hit. Viscera points out your scumminess and he's town. HMMMMMMM and this (anyone who has ever played with VE, knows why this post is super-scummy) On August 22 2011 03:36 chaos13 wrote:On August 22 2011 03:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hiro:
Palmar isn't raging. He's trying to manipulate town with an appeal to emotion. I'm surprised he's even trying, it's one of the most obvious scum-tells there is. Regarding Rayzor, if he was a good enough target to risk a no-lynch today with your ill-fated vote-switch, what has changed in your opinion that makes him not-so tomorrow?
Palmar:
You're better than this. Your play has NOT been good, you haven't provided ANYTHING aside from your weak case against DB, and admittedly I haven't read your case against BB yet (I'm working on it). The fact that you're using that as a reason to rage when everyone here knows you're better than that makes me very suspicious. Finally somebody smart gets in here. I can't believe people let Palmar away so easily. Let's assume for a second you don't think I am scum, and in turn I'll think for a second you might be town aligned. What would you think about lynching BrownBear. I will give my thoughts on your lynch target of choice after I've done re-reading his posts. Hey Palmar could you pretend for one second that I exist and answer my question ? :D
What question?
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I think he means this:
A quick question to the experienced guys : Are you focusing on the guys you know so much because they have the potential to be more dangerous? Because Nard, xtfftc and Vain are just scummy as fuck.
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Also I want to kill brownbear and vain, take a harder look at Mig and xtfftc.
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oh, I don't know I'm not exactly a Veteran player, it's only been 3 months since I signed up for my first mafia game ever.
But if you're interested in my opinion, then no, I only find it easier to analyse people I've played a lot with because I better understand their posting.
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Done with that , what now? Maybe you could tell me whom to vote for , you seem to be very good at that
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On August 22 2011 23:52 Erandorr wrote:Done with that , what now? Maybe you could tell me whom to vote for , you seem to be very good at that
BrownBear.
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On August 20 2011 22:20 Palmar wrote:BrownBear So, I decided to try a new tactic this game. Most towns spend day one arguing casually about policies and then lynch a scummy lurker. This is sometimes effective, sometimes kind of weird. This game I decided to just tear up the thread with some super-awesome tunneling on the first scummy fucker I found, and read responses by other people. There are two people who stick out to me as scummy from their reactions to my tunneling. Namely Sevryn and BrownBear. I feel more confident BrownBear is the scum of the two. There are quite a few things in BrownBear's logic that really scare me. First off, let's take a look at the post that initially raised my suspicions of him: Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 03:35 BrownBear wrote:On August 20 2011 03:21 supersoft wrote:
no. Posts like this make me sad. Put some effort into the game. Palmar/DropBear, I'm starting to believe at least one of you isn't, however this could just as easily be two townies chest-pounding day 1, at which point mafia just sits back and watches the fireworks as one or both get lynched, town wastes time, and they don't have to do jack shit. Point being, Palmar, we know you want us to lynch DropBear. DropBear, we know you want us to not lynch you. Arguing about it just takes up space. So, DropBear, if you want us to not lynch you, name someone who you think would be a better lynch target, and why. If no better alternative presents itself, I'll vote for you over a no-lynch, and you're the only person really with votes currently on you, so I highly recommend giving us some reasons why your neck should be spared. And Palmar... you keep making statements like "nard's totally setting me up he's scum" or "dropbear's scum lets investigate by lynching him" without ANY backup. "Your first post was a question to mods ppl know YOU MUST BE COVERING YOUR TRACKS OMG MAFIA" does not constitute evidence. If DropBear's gonna be active and making plans, I'm inclined to NOT lynch him day 1, because it means one less inactive jackass dragging us down. Plus, the more active he is, the sooner he'll slip up if he actually is scum. Of course, lynching is preferable to no-lynching in 99.99% of cases, so I'll vote for him in the end if nobody else comes forth. But I want to see a better case from you regardless. Finally, DB's plan: in a perfect world, it'd be great, but I don't think an unofficial mayor will have the power necessary to break ties of more than one vote. Also, how do we know this mayor will be pro-town? How do we know you are pro-town? How do we know if ANYONE'S pro-town at this point? We don't really, so I think an unofficial "mayor" will just serve to clog the thread further, will draw med-protects away from people who really need them like blues, and will end up not benefitting town in any major way. I immediately called him out on the scum logic in his posts. I pointed out that one wouldn't have to make a big stretch to understand the bolded sentence as a free pass to anyone who was being active in the thread. Which conveniently enough also clears BB of any suspicion. He also mentions the possibility of two townies just shouting at each other. The reason this jumps so much out to me is that I used exactly the same logic as scum on day 1 in SNMMII as scum. I pointed out that two loudmouths were probably just townies shouting at each other and then I suggested that the real threat are the inactive people. Deflecting lynches onto inactives is mafia's favorite way of playing day 1.BrownBear's defense of this, is that I'm twisting his words. But can anyone honestly says he understands the bolded sentence in any other way than BrownBear wants to kill off inactive people over people who are active, because the active people will reveal themselves as scum at some point. Next post, after demanding contribution from me: Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 06:52 BrownBear wrote:On August 20 2011 04:05 Palmar wrote:On August 20 2011 03:53 BrownBear wrote:
I don't think I have... please quote where you're getting that from.
The only thing I can think of is in my large post, where I said if DB is gonna be active I'm less inclined to lynch him. This means I'm less inclined to lynch DB right now, NOT that I'm "heavily advocating lynching a lurker". Please don't put words into my mouth. Here you go: On August 20 2011 03:35 BrownBear wrote:
If DropBear's gonna be active and making plans, I'm inclined to NOT lynch him day 1, because it means one less inactive jackass dragging us down. Plus, the more active he is, the sooner he'll slip up if he actually is scum. Of course, lynching is preferable to no-lynching in 99.99% of cases, so I'll vote for him in the end if nobody else comes forth.
Well, I read that as any scummy asshole with a plan is going to get a free bye on day 1, because you want to lynch someone inactive? Or does, the free pass on making plans and blanket statements to avoid the lynch only extend to a specific pool of people? I asked for something of substance and this is what I got? Oh, you.  Ok, something you've pulled out of my reasoning that really just wasn't there. You're saying I want to lynch someone inactive. Not necessarily true. Implied, maybe, but NOT what I said. Again, you really need to stop putting words in people's mouths. What I said there, and what anyone who took 5 seconds to think rationally got out of that sentence before you started spewing shit all over it, is that regardless of what I think about DropBear's alignment (and for the record, I think he's more green than not. Scummy, possibly, but not confirmed scum), I want to see people post more. We're on only 17 pages halfway through the first day, which is kind of sad. I want more content. DropBear's providing it. I'm for lynching any of the semi-actives - that is, the people who are just contributing one liners and sheeping along to do the bare minimum to fly under the radar. Inactives = people who haven't noticed the game's started yet, people in different time zones who are sleeping, or people who don't care about the game. No reason wasting a vote on them - modkills will get them soon enough. The real area where mafia are probably lurking are the semi-actives - the guys who have posted a few times to be able to say "hey, I was here", but haven't contributed anything of substance or worth to the discussion. That doesn't include DropBear right now. At the very least, he's provoking discussion both about his silly fake-mayor plan, and about whether or not he's red. He's defending himself and providing some alternate ideas. (Although, DropBear, "I will do so if it becomes necessary"? Really? That's not doing you any favors, bro). Right now, my list of semi-actives include: wherebugsgo, hiro protagonist, Foolishness, and JeeJee (when you read his posts, they don't contribute nearly as much as they do ask questions that go unanswered). I'm open to adding more to that list tho. So let's start talking about those guys! JeeJee is the most suspicious to me right now: He's posted the most, but I see not all that much in his posts... it looks to me as though he's trying to post while not adding anything of value to town discussion. Just a gut feeling, but I still feel a lot better about lynching him than I do DropBear.Anyway, long story short: You read things out of my post that didn't exist, those things are the entire basis of your case against me, your case against me sucks, gg, try harder. ##Vote: JeeJee The first sentence is interesting. He makes a point that he did not say what I called him out for, yet he implied it? What's the difference? The mindset he's working in is the same. I ask that everyone reads the post above carefully, and preferably often. Look at what he's saying. He's basically throwing a one-line accusation towards JeeJee in an attempt to divert the discussion off himself and DropBear. The bolded sentence is another one of interest. I don't actually understand how he's going to scumhunt if he actively states that "mafia is amongst the semi-actives". Well sherlock, if you tell us that you're going for semi-active people, won't the mafia just stop being semi-active? And note that he himself is definitely not amongst the semi-actives, so he cannot be mafia, by his theory. This case against JeeJee is basically just a throw-away case, BB knows well enough that JeeJee is not going to get lynched based on this case, and he's happy to look like he's not supporting a town lynch while throwing an off-vote on some random "semi-active". Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 09:55 BrownBear wrote:
It's cute that you tell everyone I'm wrong without explaining exactly why I'm wrong.
lern2backupyouraccusations Interesting that he calls out for other people to back up their accusations, yet your entire case against JeeJee is: Show nested quote +So let's start talking about those guys! JeeJee is the most suspicious to me right now: He's posted the most, but I see not all that much in his posts... it looks to me as though he's trying to post while not adding anything of value to town discussion. Just a gut feeling, but I still feel a lot better about lynching him than I do DropBear. Re-read his posts. Look at them from the point of view he is scum, understand what motivations he might have for posting like this if he's town. I think we have a great lynch candidate here town. BrownBear is scum
##Vote BrownBear
We'll start here guys. Palmar is SCUM. His case against BrownBear can be summed up in 2 lines.
1) Palmar feels BB's reaction to Palmar's scummy-ass tunneling is...scummy.
2) He sees BB's accusation and subsequent vote on JeeJee as diversionary.
But look at the size of that post! Just look at it! Know why it's that size? Because everything he's posted before here has been 1 line throwing suspicion around and NOW he has to actually look like he's scumhunting! But read it...he's not. He's saying the same thing he's BEEN saying, only throws a quote or two in there to make it look like scumhunting. I haven't found BB OR DB to be particularly pro- or anti-town, but Palmar for some reason claims his scumhunting has been 'the best' in the game so far, and that he's 'more town than anyone' this game.
He's manipulating everyone, and it's time it's over. He escaped lynch yesterday with this nonsense...the fact that there are those of you who believe him is unsettling. But Palmar is scum, and he needs to hang. I'm voting for him.
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On August 22 2011 23:53 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 23:52 Erandorr wrote:Done with that , what now? Maybe you could tell me whom to vote for , you seem to be very good at that BrownBear.
Yup pretty scummy , but I would still love to hear your thoughts on the people Supersoft and I have mentioned earlier
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Actually not even that scummy compared to others its just that you have been repeating it for so long that I actually started to get brainwashed
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Also rofl at VE. I am critical for one second and he smells blood and starts all over again. Just for the record Palmar disagreing with someone does mean you have to think they are scum
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I don't usually try to form ideas on too many people at once, and currently I'm pretty satisfied with killing BrownBear. If that fails I'll support a Mig lynch.
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Tunneling me is VE's towntell btw.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure how I play the game isn't determined on others.
ANYWAY, also notice how with his little 'experiment' he found TWO people suspicious. BrownBear AND Sevyrn...but when it came down to lynch time, where did Palmar's vote end up? Did it end up on the person who he actually THOUGHT was 'suspicious'? Well, YES. See, his post made it clear that while he found Sevyrn suspicious, he found BB MORE suspicious.
My guess? He was setting up today's lynch by leaving his vote on BB. Notice it's there again today. He didn't care who got lynched in reality because no one was voting for scum (it's my opinion that Rayzor is town, so far.) And that way, he's not on the wrong side of the lynch WHEN Sev flipped scum!
Man, for as bad as his play has been, he's playing pretty well. *rolls eyes emphatically*
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WHEN Sev flipped town, I mean...herp
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Palmar, it's also a scum-tell for you...just sayin.
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On August 22 2011 17:51 Mig wrote:
Chaoser you are technically correct but really you are twisting my words around to try and make me appear scummy. Not all meta arguments are the same, you didn't see me disagreeing with other meta arguments foolish had made in the thread. But his meta argument about how my "attitude" was different and therefore mafia was incorrect. He provided no examples of me acting that way as mafia and that attitude hadn't done anything to hurt the town. My meta argument against you was completely different. As town I have seen you dominate and put a ton of effort into scum hunting. This game I see you writing complete fluff posts and providing no analysis while making an excuse for being busy. Anyone can look at your play in mafia 39 and see how different it is compared to this game. Foolishness' meta argument didn't show one way or the other whether I was town and it didn't show how I was harming the town with my play however your play style is a complete 180 from your normal town play and is considerably worse than normal for you.
So instead of providing any real analysis this game you started off with A) writing fluff posts B) voted for me basically just saying yea I agree with foolish then disappeared before the lynch and now C) you are twisting my words around to make me appear scummy when it should be obvious how different my argument was from the one foolish made.
#Vote: chaoser
1) Isn't my being aggressive in XXXVII and my being less aggressive Day 1 in this game a change in "attitude"? Now you're just nitpicking over words and what they mean; what he said in one word you said in a sentence.
2) Aside from the fact that my post aren't fluff posts (see XXXVIII, see XXXIX where town players Kavdragon and redtooth both posted similarly to how I posted and later in analysis were praised by Ver/Qatol/etc. for creating a pro-town environment, especially for newbies.) While everyone likes to say "why post here when people can just read in the guides?" the truth of the matter is that people, especially newbies, rarely go read the guides in-depth. I would rather post basic outlines here and know there's a better chance that people will read it then hope they checked out the guides. Once again, you are nit picking and being deceitful, mister "I reference older games but only the parts I want to reference"
The rest of your pots after this one are all either WIFOM against other people or overreacting (which I'm sure you're aware, caught me a few mafia in XXXIX)
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I feel like Palmar is town, as is VE. VE I think you should reconsider your vote on palmar. Right now xtfftc and Brownbear stand out to me; I can't really put a definite finger on either but I need to do some more reading and analyzing (on a computer, not an iPhone lol)
I would suggest also that you guys all remember Trotske and Vain. Some of the names from day 1 are being forgotten because of this hardcore tunneling going on. VE I think you're tunnelling too hard on Palmar and are missing other valuable leads we have right now. I say this based off what I read by filtering your posts.
Last things I wish to add/reiterate: I feel like Foolish is town, and he's usually a valuable source of information. If we get confirmation that he was lying about last night then we need to reconsider our stance about him being town. So far, other than the hit claim, foolish has done nothing to stand out, and so I'm inclined to say that he is town.
Palmar is most likely town as well in my opinion. Yeah, he's been tunnelling BB but I think it's rather warranted. BB's vote yesterday was rather scummy, and the post he made about semiactives had the feel of a nontown agenda. He tried throwing some suspicion on "semiactives" and listed 3-4 names, of which were JeeJee, hiro, myself, and Foolish.
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EPT
