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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On January 18 2012 22:29 L wrote: Obviously. That would be you and protact. Go look at the vote lists. yeah you'd know all about protactinium being scum is scumatlarge your buddy, too? I was getting townvibes from him but he's been lurking | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5202 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5202 Posts
On January 18 2012 22:07 Toadesstern wrote: why? I still stand by everything I said: They looked scummy but since they're both lurkers / new players to me they're hard to read. Didn't you try to get GGQ lynched instead? what's the difference here? Why do you mention sandroba or protact but do not mention GGQ? yeah what I said before was stupid, you're wrong. pushing Sandroba is a badly formulated mislynch, budday | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 18 2012 22:47 Bill Murray wrote: You know I obviously meant to say mafia don't have to use deductive reasoning I don't know who is mafia, but I have done a pretty good job and suspected 1 of the 2 people who have flipped I want to see Sandroba's alignment to determine BC's, but I'd be willing to let it go for now, since you all don't realize (like I do) that one of Protact and BC HAVE to be scum Since Macpo flipped it really looks bad on Protactinium and rgtheShworz I don't think BC is scum at this point. He was one of the people he got the GGQ vs Sandroba for lynch discussion to stop and agreed with someone else (idk, foolish?) to lynch macpo. At least that's what I recall, going to have a another look at yesterday but if I'm right that looks a lot like town BW imo. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On January 18 2012 22:47 Bill Murray wrote: You know I obviously meant to say mafia don't have to use deductive reasoning I don't know who is mafia, but I have done a pretty good job and suspected 1 of the 2 people who have flipped I want to see Sandroba's alignment to determine BC's, but I'd be willing to let it go for now, since you all don't realize (like I do) that one of Protact and BC HAVE to be scum Since Macpo flipped it really looks bad on Protactinium and rgtheShworz So you are telling me, a player who pushed for the deaths of both dead red players is obviously mafia? I am glad to know that in bm's mind those who get red killed are mafia and those who get townies killed are town. We have a winner. | ||
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On January 18 2012 22:32 jaj22 wrote: Clarification: That's what it looks like if you do the absolute minimum to dodge a modkill while under pressure. He has a valid point about JayJay's post though. I had a real wtf moment when I got to the conclusion: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13162408 Probably just confirmation bias though. He has a scum read on Sandroba already, and he's desperately looking for confirmation in data that doesn't really support it. Actually I have more of a scum read on BC. Since his claim. If you read my filter, you see that. And I'm 95 % sure that either him or sandro is scum. So I agree with BM here, when he says he wants to know sandros alignment to figure out BC. This is written on phone. But I'll post my opinions on stuff more detailled when I get home in some hours. I'll post my lynch choices now though...BM (who acts insane) and ggq | ||
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 18 2012 23:38 Jayjay54 wrote: Actually I have more of a scum read on BC. Since his claim. If you read my filter, you see that. And I'm 95 % sure that either him or sandro is scum. So I agree with BM here, when he says he wants to know sandros alignment to figure out BC. This is written on phone. But I'll post my opinions on stuff more detailled when I get home in some hours. I'll post my lynch choices now though...BM (who acts insane) and ggq yeah but BC pushes don't look like mafia pushes at all. He catched scum for us. I am pretty much willing to trust him as long as he keeps on catching scum no matter what. Either he's a mafia who's trying to get towncred by catching scum (I don't have a problem with that as long as the mafias end up hanging) or he's a town catching scum and that's obviously not bad either. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 18 2012 23:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote: So you are telling me, a player who pushed for the deaths of both dead red players is obviously mafia? I am glad to know that in bm's mind those who get red killed are mafia and those who get townies killed are town. We have a winner. Now that night has started. Could you tell me who was masoned? Please before night ends, I'd like to get confirmation on that and don't want to hear "oh sry I masoned a player who got killed tonight". I trust you right. See it as a chance to even improve that. I don't want logs, I just want the name or a good explanation why you can't give me the name. Unless of course you already told us the name but I have not found a word about that yet. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5202 Posts
On January 18 2012 11:23 Adam4167 wrote: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On January 18 2012 05:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Adam4167 (Filter link) Nobody picked up on this. Not sure why it never garnered more discussion. It's fear mongering, to try and not protect the best scum-hunters what? There were, and still are, a ton of options for dealing with this, which could leave town with trading 2 for 2 if both are replaced. There seems to be a huge lack of content. This is his best post to date: + Show Spoiler + On January 15 2012 20:01 Adam4167 wrote: Filter problems: -glurio’s filter is linked to D3’s. -Jackals filter is linked to glurio’s. Palmars lynch/WBG, is WBG scummy? - Im disappointed that Palmar was yet again made a focus of discussion on day 1, but he was right, there was almost 10 people doing far less then him (incoming modkills), yet he gets flack for it, based solely on his name (meta). - As far as the WBG situation, I can see it going either way, right now he’s null to me but I cant fault him for wanting more out of Palmar, I did too. Palmars lynch/BC choosing him, did you agree with this? -Nope, should have followed his read and hung protactinium. Not that I think Prot is scum, I don’t, otherwise I wouldn’t have voted for him, but if BC is going to be swayed by the loudest voice in the mob, he may as well have just stepped down and let someone else win. I wanted someone who was confident in his reads, not making compromises with his suspicious mason buddy. BM/BC being the elected pair? -Well, I didn’t vote for either of them. Right now I like Bill Murray a whole lot more then I like BC. He’s posting, maintaining a good thread presence, contributing in the discussion. BC’s rash Palmar lynch, which seemingly came out of the blue, has me concerned that it went to the wrong place. Who would you look into lynching next and why? -Right now, I think VE is doing a good job of causing chaos and being a general distraction. I wouldn’t be adverse to him dying, regardless of his retardo jack claim. Palmar thought Ciryandor was scum, and now that we know it was coming from town Palmar, I give it weight. -I want to see what information our modkills bring, plus the nightkills. I am hoping maybe one or two scum get flipped in the modkills or vig fire, then I can start looking for associations. -I’m surprised Erandorr didn’t come under fire for his meta of refusing to play scum, and posting nil this game. I’ll be watching his replacement like a hawk. Double Lynch tomorrow? -Im all for a double lynch tomorrow. Less people shitting up this thread is good because I’m spending 3 hours catching up on this thread after I wake up, then a further couple of hours reading filters (/whine). On a more useful note, increasing our KP is a good idea. I find Jacks and Vigs far less reliable and am much more in favour of democratic scum killing then “I DON’T LIKE WHAT YOURE SAYING, ILL BLOW YOUR FACE OFF CHEESE” kind of ‘scum’ killing. On another note: -I asked GGQ a question, never got an answer. I can only assume he’s read it. His last post said “I’ve only read up to page 57”, and my question was on page 50. Id have really preferred the answer before Palmar was lynched. He’s ended up on Foolishes watch list, and his last post is defending someone on Foolishes scum list, so Ill be keeping an eye on this one for sure. But it only spawned because I specifically asked him about it. Why do you want my opinion on you? If we were both town, How would that help us in any way shape or form? It seems like an 'Am I hiding well?' type question. Shutting down discussion on candidates other than Macpo? My vote is definitely not necessary if we want Macpo lynched. Nice case there cheese /rolleyes That first post you’ve quoted is not fearmongering. That was a strategy discussion and I brought it up to potentially thwart scum knocking off both of our elected officials and some of our best scum hunters. Yes, my filter is lacking, I acknowledge that right here link my friend died in a car accident on the weekend. The only reason I haven’t asked for a replacement is because I know there aren’t any, with close to 10 people getting modkilled. You said it yourself “If we were both town”. I don’t know if you’re town, I’m really doubting it now though. I do find your case on me interesting however, not once do you call me scum. You try to cast doubt on me and construe things in a way that make them look worse then they are. Are you trying to see if your case takes off before you finally come out and say it? Lets see how you answered that post where I asked you about myself and ech: -VE could be town or scum. Thanks for that one Sherlock. -Null on Kenpachi -Null to weak town on kingjames -Null on Echelon -Null on me Are you even trying? On January 18 2012 05:25 wherebugsgo wrote: Oh kill that Adam guy too, he's been saying weird shit for days. Bugs, you want me dead because you think I’m saying ‘weird shit’? I’m here to kill scum, not people who say stuff I don’t agree with. Are you? 1. sorry about your friend. 2. do you really doubt CC is town? I think he's town. I thought you were scum but not quite anymore. 3. who do you want to lynch now? Town direction is skewy. I'm only strong for Chaosquo, don't know about 2nd target yet. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5202 Posts
I thought BM was town for a long time, but I realized I only thought this because he called a bunch of people town, who I also thought were town. Which is utter garbage because that's all he's really done... there's a lot of other weird stuff like having a STRONG TOWN tell on nisani and Adam which makes no sense considering their light post count. His list, which has a number of problems. People mentioned the Lanaia thing; I'm not sure if anyone noticed that he had previously marked Kurumi and OpZ as scum/suspicious here, yet on the list they are Town and Don't Want to Lynch respectively. Weird stuff. Considering Kurumi flipped blue later, and OpZ is on heavy scrutiny now, I could see this as BM trying to 1. show support for kurumi who he knows is going to be shot, and 2. try and give OpZ towncred. I'm down to lynch, but I'd like to see the opinions of people who previously expressed knowledge of the mind of BM. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
OpZ's opinion on BM: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13179743 Foolishness's opinion on BM (somewhat old): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13168300 Really important post there. Should have been in my list for VaderSeven. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 19 2012 01:37 jaj22 wrote: @EchelonTee: Yeah, I actually made my first post on BM's Kurumi switch. His OpZ/BC team scum read was apparently an error due to mason confusion, so I'm not sure what to read into that. OpZ's opinion on BM: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13179743 Foolishness's opinion on BM (somewhat old): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13168300 Really important post there. Should have been in my list for VaderSeven. another important thing would be a blue being modkilled in your list I guess  | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6782 Posts
On January 18 2012 22:07 Toadesstern wrote: why? I still stand by everything I said: They looked scummy but since they're both lurkers / new players to me they're hard to read. Didn't you try to get GGQ lynched instead? what's the difference here? Why do you mention sandroba or protact but do not mention GGQ? The difference is I tried NOT to get protact/sandroba lynched AND I wasn't opposed to lynching Macpo. GGQ and Macpo are not mutually exclusive, I can support both of their lynches. Macpo and Sandroba are mutually exclusive, yesterday it was either one or the other. Since we have a double lynch we'll lynch GGQ tomorrow and then I'll have an "I told you so" moment. For the second lynch Bill is a very good candidate. Especially with his last few posts lol. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On January 19 2012 01:43 Toadesstern wrote: another important thing would be a blue being modkilled in your list I guess Modkills are less important than any other kill. We're not modhunting here. Your post here concerns me because it smells of "I'm so town that I still weep for our stupid dead mason". Besides, haven't you ever caught up on a game? Unless you're just reading for fun, the first thing you read is the player roster. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm reading through the thread right now, but I'll say that I'll likely support a BM lynch pending a reread, and my other candidate is probably one of Toad/GGQ. I'll post my (final) thoughts after my reread just before dawn. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On January 19 2012 00:35 EchelonTee wrote: Foolishness and some others said that BM is "easily controllable" or easy to read; it's part of why Foolishness pushed for his election way back early D1. So I ask: examining BM, is his shenanigans equivalent to scum? I thought BM was town for a long time, but I realized I only thought this because he called a bunch of people town, who I also thought were town. Which is utter garbage because that's all he's really done... there's a lot of other weird stuff like having a STRONG TOWN tell on nisani and Adam which makes no sense considering their light post count. His list, which has a number of problems. People mentioned the Lanaia thing; I'm not sure if anyone noticed that he had previously marked Kurumi and OpZ as scum/suspicious here, yet on the list they are Town and Don't Want to Lynch respectively. Weird stuff. Considering Kurumi flipped blue later, and OpZ is on heavy scrutiny now, I could see this as BM trying to 1. show support for kurumi who he knows is going to be shot, and 2. try and give OpZ towncred. I'm down to lynch, but I'd like to see the opinions of people who previously expressed knowledge of the mind of BM. The proof is in the pudding, and in this case the pudding is in the vote records during D1. It should be pretty obvious to anyone who looks at the final stretch of voting that mafia wanted BM in office, but weren't worried by a slow vote bus for BC to close out the night, which implies that out of the three candidates, at least two were mafia. In the last 2 minutes of voting, A Proact mayor/BM Jailor result turned into a BC Mayor/Proact Jailor result and then switched to a BC mayor/BM result. The people responsible for that shift? VE and kitaman. Kitaman took a hit. No vig claimed the shot, ergo he was shot by mafia or mafia held a hit. Mafia nearly never holds hits, especially on D1 when they're strongest. VE's entire claim debacle did not seem like a fuck-up that would have happened had he been mafia; day-vig shots are generally talked over within the the team, and out of 10 members, one was likely to ask a mod for more information. So, I'm guessing they're both on town's side. So, if that's the case, then mafia watched the last few votes go in, clearly watching the event and willing to interfere with it as Ciry's vote timing shows, but then declined to involve themselves as BM, their now obvious candidate, was voted out in the last minute. If BC Mayor/Proact Jailor was the result and neither was mafia, they'd have been faced with the opportunity to trade a slightly suspicious vote for the jailor ability and the list of BGs, which lets them knock off the mayor and his huge vote surplus whenever they want. So: Matrix of possibilities: BM is town. Unlikely. BC is mafia. Kita/Meapak/GGQ heavily suspicious. Plenty of people pop up as suspicious given their pushing for his lynch. BM is mafia. Was actually bussed in by scumbuddy Kita at the last second. Other candidates look very +EV town. BM is mafia. Kita is town. Team sat back. Another candidate is mafia: Protact is mafia: BC heavily town leaning bumatlarge/blahzor are implicated. Note BM intentionally throwing shit at bum as he approaches his death. If Protact/BM are on a team, protact's call to jail someone indicates that he thinks he can hold a hit back to secure a lynch; good trade for mafia. Recent effort to get himself/foolishness jailed were an effort to push medics off those targets. His switch to me both sets up a crumb and re-rbs me. BC is mafia: sandroba is town. Protact is town. All late entries into the mayoral candidacy are town leaning. All cloaked kingmaker posts become VERY incriminating (shutting down choice before BC mayor lynched the first person to vote for Protact in office. Meapak/GGQ/Bugs and Supersoft are implicated via votes. I'm actually missing a few of the very strong implied mafia members off of this information. So we actually gain more than the above, but my lunch break's almost over and I'd prefer not to get fired. Clearing this up gives us, in nearly all cases, an incredibly strong follow-up double lynch at the least, and half of the mafia team at best. Lets not fuck up a free win. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
Toodles. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 19 2012 01:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: The difference is I tried NOT to get protact/sandroba lynched AND I wasn't opposed to lynching Macpo. GGQ and Macpo are not mutually exclusive, I can support both of their lynches. Macpo and Sandroba are mutually exclusive, yesterday it was either one or the other. Since we have a double lynch we'll lynch GGQ tomorrow and then I'll have an "I told you so" moment. For the second lynch Bill is a very good candidate. Especially with his last few posts lol. where's the difference? I was not against an macpo lynch as well I just said that lynching sandroba is better imo because macpo is hard to read and so is GGQ because as mentioned, they both said so little and could be townies that are no longer interested in the game. It was GGQ or sandroba or macpo. How is pushing for sandroba a bad think because macpo flipped red and GGQ is not a bad thing? Don't get me wrong I think neither one is bad I just don't understand why it was sandroba OR macpo but not GGQ or macpo? It was something like 4 votes vs 4 votes yesterday evening (german time). | ||
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