@curu We can confortably say that most players have nukes, otherwise there would be no conspirator and the threshold on radiation wouldn't be "fairly high". It doesnt matter if mafia holds nukes because as soon as they use them they get lynched and get their nukes shot down. You are assuming powerroles do not have nukes, which is based on nothing at all (last game some most people had nukes, regardless of role. People that didn't have them were vanilla/mafia/blue so nothing can be said about that). Having someone randomize is exactly the same or pehaps worse than following the list, since said person can choose the order and has no way to prove that said list was actually randomize. Again this does not matter at all, I don't know why you keep bringing this up.

Kurumi

Poland6130 Posts

July 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#202

I have two nukes and I won't use them ever. I can see Caller rofling after only four nukes being shot and Conspirator winning. I don't want to lose because I nuked like a mad man. I'd rather lose thanks to shitty analysis of mine and poor leadership. You can discuss nuking plans, I am off from those because I am not going to use them.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

July 05 2011 11:05 GMT

#203

The OP specifically states that

"Each player has a random amount of nuclear weapons (from 1-2)（unless otherwise specified） that they may shoot on any person they wish during this phase"

It may be possible that there are a few special roles with no nukes, but the vast majority of players should have at least one

heist

United States720 Posts

July 05 2011 11:08 GMT

#204

If we go by Sandroba's plan, what would we do if someone lynches on their own and manages to nuke scum? Are we to assume them conspirator and just lynch them by nuke?

If he claims it'll take more than 1 nuke to kill him (and why wouldn't he if he's conspirator)... that's already 3 nukes.

So that's 3 nukes per conspirator if we follow your procedure. With at least 3 conspirators, that's already 9 nukes (of course i'm assuming at least 3 conspirators don't die to mafia night kills or town vote lynches which doesn't seem too unbelievable). Plus the daily 1 or 2 nuke-lynches. Then the unaccounted random lynches which some townies may rashly do. If the mafia find a really advantageous situation to use their nukes I'm sure they will have no qualms. Coupled with "if i die, someone else is gonna die" mentality that was mentioned I'm just a little worried about the radiation count if we have a policy of using nukes everyday. I'm just laying out how this can go really wrong. You can only control the town with threat of death, which is flimsy at best.

The only real advantage is double the opportunity for information, while powerful, will be for nothing if the radiation cap is reached.

Going by your policy, even if everyone follows your plan strictly, sooner or later, conspirators will be launching their nukes and we will be using nukes on them after they have launched their own. Not only do we fail to nuke-lynch mafia, but the subsequent lynch will be ambiguous as mafia has no problem supporting the death of a conspirator.

Also, I doubt the mafia nuke KP will be drastically hindered from a policy of going off the list as executioner. Probability is against us in that. They can easily claim to have 1 nuke while holding 2 or 3.

Finally, if the first lynch is by nuke and we lynch all renegade nukers, how is this that different from GMarshall's plan?

sandroba

Canada4998 Posts

July 05 2011 11:09 GMT

#205

@Kurumi If 4 nukes was the threshold the game would be extremelly imbalanced, as conspirator would always win. If you claim to have nukes and do not shoot them on towns behalf we will have to lynch you.
Based on last game the amount of nukes you have depend on country not role. Vanilla townies/blues/scum all can have no nukes.

syllogism

Finland5948 Posts

July 05 2011 11:11 GMT

#206

Heist: The OP talks about "The Conspirator", not "Conspirators". I expect there to be only one

Mig

United States4714 Posts

July 05 2011 11:13 GMT

#207

Heist did you read sandroba's plan? We lynch people who fire their nukes on their own. We don't nuke them.

And seriously people it doesn't matter how many nukes mafia has. Mafia could have 5000 nukes but if they fire any of them they get lynched. This is why the mafia's kp is crippled. So who cares if they claim to have 3 or 0 or don't use them. It just doesn't really matter as long as we kill anyone who fires without the town voting on it.

sandroba

Canada4998 Posts

July 05 2011 11:15 GMT

#208

@heist Pls read the discussion before posting. If we go by my plan any nuke in the air will be shot down and the nuker lynch. Since no one has "be lynched" as their win condition no one is going to fucking launch on their on.
There's no fucking way conspirator(s) are going to have multiple nukes and it's very unlikelly they even have nukes. If we feel we are getting close to threshold we can stop the double lynch.
I assure you if we leave it to players independent decision we are gonna lose regardless. If we go by my policy we are gonna win much sooner than the limit is even close to being reached.

heist

United States720 Posts

July 05 2011 11:17 GMT

#209

If we are having 2 lynches, one by nuke and one standard per day, and if all renegade nukers are to be lynched... then thats pretty much nuking any renegade nukers. It doesn't really matter which of the two you nuke, the renegade nuker or the top vote from town. It's the same thing since the renegade nuker will be forced onto a lynch spot.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

July 05 2011 11:17 GMT

#210

I mean lets say worst case scenario the top 10 people are all town or something so no mafia ever had their nukes used. How exactly would that be different from everyone getting to use their nukes at their own discretion? Obviously mafia are never going to use their nukes in a pro town way regardless so at least this we are actually working together and putting some direction behind our hits instead of everyone randomly firing.

GMarshal

United States22154 Posts

July 05 2011 11:18 GMT

#211

@sand, I still think counternuking is better, we just fire one nuke and forget about the person, if we policy lynch people then that lynch fails to provide any information, as *everyone* is going to vote for that person. That combined with the fact that random nuker's are sadly probably town, it also means we wasted a lynch. If we just fire a nuke we can forget about that person and concentrate on lynching scum.

sandroba

Canada4998 Posts

July 05 2011 11:19 GMT

#212

We NEVER nuke "renegade nukers" because that gives them more possibilities to launch again. We insta lynch them and if necessary vote to nuke someone else.

Palmar

Iceland22633 Posts

July 05 2011 11:19 GMT

#213

I'm not going to work on the assumption that town is bad. Actually, if the town is bad does it matter which way it kills itself? Being led in circles by mafia or nuking the hell out of each other? Sure, if there ever comes a point in the game where we have a bunch of confirmed townies, then yes. But while we have no idea who is pulling the strings, fuck no.

I read Caller's soviet game, yes it was infested with retards trying to troll the game. I'm just going to trust that people learn from mistakes and try to use critical thinking to further our cause.

But hey, I adhere to my own plan though, I'm not going to nuke anyone unless I have a really good reason to, cause you know, I'm actually going to try and win this thing.

You see, the plans we're arguing about are in effect quite similar, we both plan to only nuke scummy players. The difference is only the method we want to use to apply this. And of course we lynch players who launch outright stupid nukes, and preferably shoot down their nukes.

The mafia already cannot use their nukes, because we will spot it immediately if it's a bad nuke, shoot it down and lynch the launcher. I just don't want it to be directed by the town council.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

July 05 2011 11:19 GMT

#214

On July 05 2011 20:17 heist wrote:
If we are having 2 lynches, one by nuke and one standard per day, and if all renegade nukers are to be lynched... then thats pretty much nuking any renegade nukers. It doesn't really matter which of the two you nuke, the renegade nuker or the top vote from town. It's the same thing since the renegade nuker will be forced onto a lynch spot.

We can either follow sandroba's plan and nuke 1 person a day. Or everyone can play by their own discretion and nuke whenever they want. Which way do you think is going to lead to more people nuked?

Sandroba's plan will make it less likely that we reach the radiation limit not make it more likely.

Palmar

Iceland22633 Posts

July 05 2011 11:20 GMT

#215

On July 05 2011 20:05 syllogism wrote:
The OP specifically states that

"Each player has a random amount of nuclear weapons (from 1-2)（unless otherwise specified） that they may shoot on any person they wish during this phase"

It may be possible that there are a few special roles with no nukes, but the vast majority of players should have at least one

I'll just immediately dispel that.

I have no nukes.

sandroba

Canada4998 Posts

July 05 2011 11:20 GMT

#216

@GM We vote for nuking to provide information. Nuking them back gives them oportunity to nuke again and doesn't punish players imune to nukes.

sandroba

Canada4998 Posts

July 05 2011 11:21 GMT

#217

"Each player has a random amount of nuclear weapons (from 1-2)（unless otherwise specified） that they may shoot on any person they wish during this phase"
How is that dispeled? Stop trolling pls.

Mig

United States4714 Posts

July 05 2011 11:22 GMT

#218

Palmar I pray that you actually have no nukes. Do you honestly think you are more likely to hit scum working completely by yourself than with the town working together?