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World at War 2 Mafia - Page 13

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
July 05 2011 12:28 GMT
#241
@GM I agree that if there's 3 people the nuke is never going to be on mafia. We can require at least a third? Majority is too much. We should be able to derive info regardless. Abusing double lynches is really beneficial.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
July 05 2011 12:29 GMT
#242
Also we are nuking just once a day, how does this help the conspirator?
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
July 05 2011 12:36 GMT
#243
On July 05 2011 21:29 sandroba wrote:
Also we are nuking just once a day, how does this help the conspirator?


Over time we end up accumulating radiation, the number is "high" but I expect the mafia will try to go out with a bang when nuked, and I suspect there are more nukes than counter nukes, the more we nuke the more we help the conspirator. Especially if the end game is decided by nuclear Armageddon (which it might). Basically I want us to be able to not nuke if we can't all agree on a target, even with no-nukes we get information from interactions, who chose not to hammer, vote-switches, and interactions, and by requiring majority we make sure its a consensual decision, rather than a vocal minority controlling the nuke. Plus by making it majority we force everyone who wants to get someone nuked to be really active about it, which generates *tons* of information.
Moderator
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
July 05 2011 12:41 GMT
#244
Here's what I think about your plan

##Nuke: Sandroba
Computer says mafia
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 05 2011 12:42 GMT
#245
As far as I can see, the OP doesn't state how many night kills mafia has. After we know that, we can determine if it's more beneficial to proceed slowly.
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
July 05 2011 12:50 GMT
#246
So Palmar is either both joking and insane or he is just insane. I say if sandroba really gets hit by a nuke then Palmar gets lynched but for now we should just ignore his crazy 'cause he probably doesn't have any nukes.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
July 05 2011 12:53 GMT
#247
Night has not even started and the nuclear phase is during the day after that.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
July 05 2011 12:54 GMT
#248
@syllo Ok explain to me in which scenario it is not beneficial to have 2 lynches per night cycle.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
July 05 2011 12:59 GMT
#249
@GM I can't say I agree with that. Pure voting with no flips are very hard to analyse. Majority lynch benefits mafia more than town. 1 nuke per day and a lynch is not gonna win the game for the conspirator.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 05 2011 13:00 GMT
#250
On July 05 2011 21:54 sandroba wrote:
@syllo Ok explain to me in which scenario it is not beneficial to have 2 lynches per night cycle.

We should absolutely have two "lynches" if it's based on majority voting. "Lynching" with nukes is different from normal lynches, however, because mafia may take down one or more of us and they may have nuclear resistance. If mafia only has 1 KP, I don't think it's possible for them to win without town misnuking a lot and them retaliating.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
July 05 2011 13:00 GMT
#251
On July 05 2011 21:53 sandroba wrote:
Night has not even started and the nuclear phase is during the day after that.


This is correct

And as I said, I don't have any nukes.

Anyway, I still don't agree with the plan. All the mafia has to do is to not lurk and they will be able to sway the nuke votes in the wrong direction. We already have to deal with this problem for the lynch, so why the added reliance on outspoken players?

Here's an alternative, since you guys like policies.

a) Don't nuke unless you're sure.

b) when you nuke, you must provide detailed reasoning of why you nuked

c) If deemed satisfying, we proceed normally, if not, we lynch you.

This is in effect the same thing you're suggesting sandroba, it just leaves a little wiggle room for independent thought.
Computer says mafia
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
July 05 2011 13:03 GMT
#252
@Palmar LOL? If that's so any game is auto won by mafia if all they have to do is not lurk and sway the votes. How do you propose we win the game if not by lynching scum.

I'm tired of arguing with you, because you are either scum or conspirator, so from now on I'll ignore your post till I can lynch you. I already have all the info I need to prove that you are not town aligned.
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
July 05 2011 13:08 GMT
#253
On July 05 2011 22:00 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2011 21:53 sandroba wrote:
Night has not even started and the nuclear phase is during the day after that.


This is correct

And as I said, I don't have any nukes.

Anyway, I still don't agree with the plan. All the mafia has to do is to not lurk and they will be able to sway the nuke votes in the wrong direction. We already have to deal with this problem for the lynch, so why the added reliance on outspoken players?

Here's an alternative, since you guys like policies.

a) Don't nuke unless you're sure.

b) when you nuke, you must provide detailed reasoning of why you nuked

c) If deemed satisfying, we proceed normally, if not, we lynch you.

This is in effect the same thing you're suggesting sandroba, it just leaves a little wiggle room for independent thought.

Except this is what is really going to happen

a.) Town player A comes up with the crappiest argument in existence of why player b is scum.
b.)Town shoots him down and tells him not to shoot, etc, Player A is 100% convinced though and shoots anyway
c.) Player B rages and sends out retaliatory nukes, counternukes go out.
d.) Player B flips green in a pile of rubble, with who knows how many others being killed in the process
e.) furious lynch mob kills player A, who also flips green.
f.) Rage from the previous days carries over, more nukes flying about.
g.) mafia giggles.

If everyone has a say in whether or not the nukes are used, and its clearly established that its the will of the town (by a MAJORITY), then player B if he is town won't counternuke, player A will never fire in the first place, and catastrophes will be averted.
Moderator
chaos13
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada885 Posts
July 05 2011 13:08 GMT
#254
On July 05 2011 21:41 Palmar wrote:
Here's what I think about your plan

##Nuke: Sandroba


Don't try to be a hero. Not only have you already stated you have no nukes, making this worthless and not about to help anything, but it's the night phase and you can't even use actions. If you don't agree with his plan, don't follow it. Simple as that. So far I'm seeing ten pages of "herp" "derp" "herp" "derp".
I don't agree with any of the plans that have been proposed, and people didn't agree with what I suggested in lieu of them. All this arguing is doing is giving scum and conspirators a barrier to hide behind, and I can guarantee you that the conspirator(s) are somewhere in this discussion trying to influence our nuke policies. Have we done any scumhunting so far? No.

So here's the deal. Come day 1, absolutely no more discussion about nuke policy. If we haven't decided on anything by then, too bad, but at that point we start scumhunting. This means that if you have a plan that you want put into effect, you need to be persuasive. If you have a plan, outline it as follows.

(Your Name)'s Plan for Not Letting the Conspirator Win

Nuke Policy
Fire/Don't Fire under the following circumstances:

Punishment
This is what happens if you break the rules:

Why
Explanation for why this is the best plan:

Support
How does this plan compare to WaW 1? How could it have affected the results of that game?

Other Tidbits
Anything else you want to say.

##Vote: (Your Name)'s Plan


And people will vote on your plan. The goal for these plans will be to have 12/29 players vote for them. This is relatively close to a majority, and is achievable for anyone. If we're getting close to the end of day and no plan is close to achieving it, you'll have to consider moving your vote to a different one. If no plan results in 12/29 votes, we don't follow through with it. If we do, every player is required to follow it, and if you do not, you are lynched. A plan must follow the format as outlined above in order to be eligible for voting.

Now stop derping and get stuff done.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
July 05 2011 13:10 GMT
#255
On July 05 2011 22:03 sandroba wrote:
@Palmar LOL? If that's so any game is auto won by mafia if all they have to do is not lurk and sway the votes. How do you propose we win the game if not by lynching scum.

I'm tired of arguing with you, because you are either scum or conspirator, so from now on I'll ignore your post till I can lynch you. I already have all the info I need to prove that you are not town aligned.


By your logic, the only benefit of having vigilantes is the self-confirm thing.

I don't agree, I think the independent shot is also excellent for town.

Also, nice twisting of my words, I didn't say the scum would auto-win, all I said is that they can win like that, and you're suggesting removing one tool to counter it.

Does scum win all games that are vanilla v vanilla? Hell no. Would a vigilante (and let's assume he can't confirm himself) help the town in this situation? Hell yes.

And sure, your plan can lead to victory for us, this is especially true if like in RTM the outspoken and opinion-giving people are all pro-town, are you just going to assume the mafia is playing badly?
Computer says mafia
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
July 05 2011 13:10 GMT
#256
On July 05 2011 22:03 sandroba wrote:
@Palmar LOL? If that's so any game is auto won by mafia if all they have to do is not lurk and sway the votes. How do you propose we win the game if not by lynching scum.

I'm tired of arguing with you, because you are either scum or conspirator, so from now on I'll ignore your post till I can lynch you. I already have all the info I need to prove that you are not town aligned.

Don't be stupid, just because he has a different viewpoint doesn't mean he is scum.

Remember bad plans =/= scum?

I'm pretty sure he is just pushing a bad idea because he thinks its good, not as part of some scum agenda.
Moderator
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
July 05 2011 13:13 GMT
#257
People also have to bear in mind that we most likely have town aligned roles that can act at night and take pot shots at scummy people. This plan in now way discourage such roles from acting with their limited town aligned KP that doesn't lead to apocalypse.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
July 05 2011 13:14 GMT
#258
That's not it GM. After I post my case (prob at night, cuz I might get sniped) you will see how there's simply no way palmar could possibly be town aligned this game.
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
July 05 2011 13:17 GMT
#259
On July 05 2011 22:08 chaos13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2011 21:41 Palmar wrote:
Here's what I think about your plan

##Nuke: Sandroba


Don't try to be a hero. Not only have you already stated you have no nukes, making this worthless and not about to help anything, but it's the night phase and you can't even use actions. If you don't agree with his plan, don't follow it. Simple as that. So far I'm seeing ten pages of "herp" "derp" "herp" "derp".
I don't agree with any of the plans that have been proposed, and people didn't agree with what I suggested in lieu of them. All this arguing is doing is giving scum and conspirators a barrier to hide behind, and I can guarantee you that the conspirator(s) are somewhere in this discussion trying to influence our nuke policies. Have we done any scumhunting so far? No.

So here's the deal. Come day 1, absolutely no more discussion about nuke policy. If we haven't decided on anything by then, too bad, but at that point we start scumhunting. This means that if you have a plan that you want put into effect, you need to be persuasive. If you have a plan, outline it as follows.

(Your Name)'s Plan for Not Letting the Conspirator Win

Nuke Policy
Fire/Don't Fire under the following circumstances:

Punishment
This is what happens if you break the rules:

Why
Explanation for why this is the best plan:

Support
How does this plan compare to WaW 1? How could it have affected the results of that game?

Other Tidbits
Anything else you want to say.

##Vote: (Your Name)'s Plan


And people will vote on your plan. The goal for these plans will be to have 12/29 players vote for them. This is relatively close to a majority, and is achievable for anyone. If we're getting close to the end of day and no plan is close to achieving it, you'll have to consider moving your vote to a different one. If no plan results in 12/29 votes, we don't follow through with it. If we do, every player is required to follow it, and if you do not, you are lynched. A plan must follow the format as outlined above in order to be eligible for voting.

Now stop derping and get stuff done.

Im pretty sure theres only like 3 hours to game start. Anyway we are using the sandroba plan with majority vote unless someone (other than Palmar) objects strenuously.


GMrobas's Plan for Not Letting the Conspirator Win

Nuke Policy
One nuke is shot per day, if a majority of players (50%) agrees to it. no other nukes are fired for any reason

Punishment
Policy lynched, no excuses allowed, you fire, you die.

Why
double lynch, increased information, decent use of kp, no need to fire if its not necessary/an appropriate target cannot be deiced upon

Support
Its not a clusterfuck

Other Tidbits
Hi coag.

##Vote: GMroba's plan
Moderator
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
July 05 2011 13:20 GMT
#260
@chaos13 as you can see my plan is extremelly pro-town and is gaining momentum. Now is the perfect time to discuss plans since the game has not even started. Most reasonable people are agreeing with it and others are trying to shut it down for no sane reason. If you don't agree with it you better provide some reason. We will not leave it to be discussed day1 when we have to focus on who to lynch. Also if you think I haven't done scum hunting so far you are in for a surprise.
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